When did Gregg Williams become an idiot?

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

If there was any thread I want Gregg Williams to read, it's this one. Just the title. I won't bash the thread maker, we can leave that to Gregg.

[occidio]

Northeast Skin, thank you for pointing this out.

We dont need D linemen and I trust the real coaches more than any reporter or analyst that is not in the game themselves.

[skinsn24]

After reviewing his whole track record, it is pretty simple. GW is a good, coach, not great but good. However, this notion that "he doesnt need good defensive Line play"" is garbage and I am here to disprove it.

GW seems to have forgotten what led to much of his sucess, GOOD defensive line play. Doesnt have to a be super (even though much of the time it was), but very effective defensive line. When i say effective, i mean a GOOD RUN STOPPING defensive line, that also has the ability to get to the passer.

Lets go inside the numbers:

1999-Titan-superbowl year:

Kenny Holmes (DE)- 4 sacks and TWO interceptions

Jvon Kearse (DE)-14.5 Sacks

Big Joe Sal'ava (DT)-BIG run stopper (was 8 years younger than he is now)

John Thorton (DT)-Run stopper, but got 4.5 sacks from the DT spot!!

Jason Frisk (DT)- 4 sacks and 1 pick from the DT position

Josh Evans (DT/DE)- 3.5 Sacks from the DT position

Henry Ford (DT/DE)- 5.5 sacks

Sacks from the Dline = 36, Interceptions from the Dline=3

WOW i would say that was a good year for lineman..36 DL freakin sacks.

2000-Number 1 ranked defense

Jason Frisk (DT/NT)-Huge Run Stopper, Nose tackle-still 2 sacks

Kenny Holmes (DE) -8 Sacks

Jvon Kearse (DE) -11.5 sacks

BIG JOE (DT)--again in there to stop the run (7 years younger)

John Thorton (DT)- 4 sacks

Henry Ford (DE/DT)-2 sacks

Keith Ambrey (DE)-3.5 sacks

Total DL sacks-31..31 freakin sacks from the DL

Bills 2003- number 2 ranked defense

Aaron Schobel (DE)-11.5 sacks 1 Int

Jeff Posey (DE) --5.5 sacks

Sam Adams(NT/DT)-HUGE RUN STOPPER, 5 sacks 1 Int

Ryan Denny-(DE) 3.5 sacks

Ron Edwards (DT)- injuried .5 sacks

Pat Williams- (NT/DT) HUGE RUN STOPPER

Justin Dannin (DT)-Run stopper

Total DL sacks-26, plus 2 picks with 2 Nose tackle type players

The rest you guys know, i am sure. (2004, healthy Griff, Healthy big JOE playin at a high level)...2006--19 total sacks for the entire team

Does someone want to explain to me where this "Gregg Williams doesnt need good DL play" theme came from?

I only did his best years, because i think that is what matters.

[Doctor ToughLove]

To be fair, I guess Gregg Williams became an idiot when he could not make decent starters out of superbowl champion safety, Ryan Clark & Walt Harris, a three time probowler, a #9 CB draft pick. He has four top-10 picks at DB now, but hey, if they do well I guess it is because of GreggW's coaching and what a freaking genius he is. He's just not that great of a coach.

[Doctor ToughLove]

Skins24 makes a great point too. Despite all the gusto about being able to plug in any player in the system...blah, blah, blah... GreggW has benifitted from some pretty good talent over the years. Where is his Jevon Kearse & Aaron Schoebel now?

It occured to me too, but thanks for doing the leg work. good point.

[Forever21]

Four top-10 defenses in seven years ain't to shabby...and when put in this context, the 2006 defense looks more an aberration than anything.

And that is what a lot of us who believe our D will be fine this year and we didn't need to draft DL have been saying.

[Burgold]

4 years in the Top 10

2 years in the bottom 10

1 year dead smack in the middle

Obviously the good outweighs the bad but its not like 100% one way.

Who was the titans d coordinator prior to 2000

1 of the years in the bottom ten was his first year in Buffalo. That's probably worthy of an incomplete grade. It may have been the talent or a number of other factors. The improvement trend was impressive.

Idiocy is not what I worry about with Williams. I worry about revolt. I worry that players began to tune him out and not fight for him. The effort level on O and D certainly seemed different. I worry that he lost his team and they stopped believing in him and his ideas. I worry that his doghouse became too permanent and the mistakes in playing time, specifically the ostracization of Adam coupled with the refusal to let Rocky in a game, had a big impact.

We'll see in preseason. Hopefully, it was an aberration or with time, the time will re-gell.

[CapitalDefense]

Age ........

We have basically the same defensive starters as 04 and 05 only older

This is a young mans game

[talk show host]

Some of you think he suddenly doesn't understand football after his track record. Some of you would rather store your faith in news reporters who have never seen nor understand game tape. Some of you listen to reporters (radio, columnist, etc.) pontificate as if they understand anything about football. Some of you ignore this track record for Gregg Williams led defenses:

Titans 2000 - #1 Defense

Bills 2001 - #23 Defense

Bills 2002 - #15 Defense

Bills 2003 - #2 Defense

Redskins 2004 - #3 Defense

Redskins 2005 - #9 Defense

Redskins 2006 - #31 Defense

When coach Gibbs says the problem is not the defensive line based on what Gregg Williams has seen in probably hundreds of hours of tape film, well I believe them rather than some arbitrary reporter.

When these guys go after a position and ignore another position that most 'think' we need, I will put my faith in these coaches.

What say you?

greg williams knows a hell of alot more about football than you, so if hes an idiot, then what does that make you? As those numbers show, 2006 was Williams worst year and I have no doubt that with all his experience, he knows EXACTLY what he needs to do to remedy the situation

[Major Harris]

I think with all the injuries last year we just couldnt do what he wanted and now that we have players and hopefully they stay healthy we'll have once again a top 5 or top 10 defense... I trust our staff completly

i think your point only further validates the opinions of those that wanted to go d-line. our success hinges on a group of players that aren't young and have a recent history of injuries.

[Geoff_K]

Gibbs said the Redskins were never close to picking a defensive lineman, even though the current group had trouble rushing the passer and stopping the run. He said the additions at linebacker and in the secondary should lead to better coverage, allowing the line more time to get to the passer. "What we went through last year," Gibbs said, "a lot of it was the coverage."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-redskinsdraft&prov=ap&type=lgns

Mr Gibbs says the problem was not the line. I believe he and his assistants looked over game film until they knew what every player did on every play.I am not privy to this information, so I will put my faith in what they saw and what they say.

[authentic]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-redskinsdraft&prov=ap&type=lgns

Mr Gibbs says the problem was not the line. I believe he and his assistants looked over game film until they knew what every player did on every play.I am not privy to this information, so I will put my faith in what they saw and what they say.

Well i dont think he's lying. After AC began to get his act together and the coaching staff allowed them to just attack the backfield instead of stunting. They began to get some pretty good pressure on the QB. If thats the case, then why did we keep getting burned on 3rd down conversions? (i.e. the 2nd Dallas game, the St. Louis game, and against the Colts)

[cannonshogs44]

Williams along with the D players are mad as hell about last year. All have big Ego's and its safe to say we will have a top 5 D this year.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

This sounds vaguely familiar.

[cphil006]

Let's just see what we do this season. It is obvious we go after DEs next offseason if not this offseason once people start making cuts on June 1

[NavyDave]

i think your point only further validates the opinions of those that wanted to go d-line. our success hinges on a group of players that aren't young and have a recent history of injuries.

So true Major, and while I never called him an idiot (conceited,arrogant but thats another story) don't expect most of us to act like the second g at the end of his name means Genius also.

[SkinsFTW]

So what happens if Griffen or a couple of the other starters are out 1/2 the year?

People want to blame injuries. Seems to me that the good teams keep playing and winning despite injuries.

The Pats do it every single year, so do the Eagles, Chargers, Colts, Bears too. But we lose either Griffen or Springs and the whole defense collapses.

[Playoffsorbust2005]

I agree with everything you say. Our defense next year probably won't be top 10 but it will most definetley better than last year's 31st ranked. We'll be fine, just watch!

HTTR!:point2sky

Pardon me if I'm wrong but wasn't it our D-line that couldn't pressure the opposing QBs and stop the run? If we can't stop the run, our health in the secondary won't even matter. Who's up for Redskins predictions? Obviously, the coaches DON'T know what they're doing and the so called experts do, otherwise, we wouldn't have gone 5-11 with one of the worse defenses ever. How do you go from 9th in the league to 31st just because of a couple injuries? Somebody please explain that to me.

:doh:

[PeterMP]

After reviewing his whole track record, it is pretty simple. GW is a good, coach, not great but good. However, this notion that "he doesnt need good defensive Line play"" is garbage and I am here to disprove it.

GW seems to have forgotten what led to much of his sucess, GOOD defensive line play. Doesnt have to a be super (even though much of the time it was), but very effective defensive line. When i say effective, i mean a GOOD RUN STOPPING defensive line, that also has the ability to get to the passer.

Lets go inside the numbers:

1999-Titan-superbowl year:

Kenny Holmes (DE)- 4 sacks and TWO interceptions

Jvon Kearse (DE)-14.5 Sacks

Big Joe Sal'ava (DT)-BIG run stopper (was 8 years younger than he is now)

John Thorton (DT)-Run stopper, but got 4.5 sacks from the DT spot!!

Jason Frisk (DT)- 4 sacks and 1 pick from the DT position

Josh Evans (DT/DE)- 3.5 Sacks from the DT position

Henry Ford (DT/DE)- 5.5 sacks

Sacks from the Dline = 36, Interceptions from the Dline=3

WOW i would say that was a good year for lineman..36 DL freakin sacks.

2000-Number 1 ranked defense

Jason Frisk (DT/NT)-Huge Run Stopper, Nose tackle-still 2 sacks

Kenny Holmes (DE) -8 Sacks

Jvon Kearse (DE) -11.5 sacks

BIG JOE (DT)--again in there to stop the run (7 years younger)

John Thorton (DT)- 4 sacks

Henry Ford (DE/DT)-2 sacks

Keith Ambrey (DE)-3.5 sacks

Total DL sacks-31..31 freakin sacks from the DL

Bills 2003- number 2 ranked defense

Aaron Schobel (DE)-11.5 sacks 1 Int

Jeff Posey (DE) --5.5 sacks

Sam Adams(NT/DT)-HUGE RUN STOPPER, 5 sacks 1 Int

Ryan Denny-(DE) 3.5 sacks

Ron Edwards (DT)- injuried .5 sacks

Pat Williams- (NT/DT) HUGE RUN STOPPER

Justin Dannin (DT)-Run stopper

Total DL sacks-26, plus 2 picks with 2 Nose tackle type players

The rest you guys know, i am sure. (2004, healthy Griff, Healthy big JOE playin at a high level)...2006--19 total sacks for the entire team

Does someone want to explain to me where this "Gregg Williams doesnt need good DL play" theme came from?

I only did his best years, because i think that is what matters.

Good job again :applause: .

You are doing an excelent job at putting the lie to the fact that he doesn't need a good DL. Of course, all of the people that disagree will just ignore it.

It should be pointed out that Williams probably didn't have as much say on player selection as he does now. W/ the Titans, I imagine he had essentially no say. If the GM and Fisher decieded they needed a DL, then they went went out and got one (e.g. Kearse). What was Williams going to say, 'Thanks for drafting this guy, but I don't need him so I am going to leave him on the bench.'. Similarily, there was a GM in Buffalo, and if that guy looked and said we need a dominant DL and drafts Schobel, what was Williams going to do? Not play him?

[Forever21]

Yea people being hurt had somthing to do with it.

Yeah no kidding!

[NavyDave]

So what happens if Griffen or a couple of the other starters are out 1/2 the year?

People want to blame injuries. Seems to me that the good teams keep playing and winning despite injuries.

The Pats do it every single year, so do the Eagles, Chargers, Colts, Bears too. But we lose either Griffen or Springs and the whole defense collapses.

And thats the problem we haven't went after credible depth or dominant defensive line types lately in the draft.

Hopely that wont be the case in 2008

[ttr77]

Nothing against the OP or anything, just a general complaint...

Why is it that yards against is used as the barometer for defensive rankings? I never understood that...I mean, there are a lot of factors in there. For example, if your offense is great and jumps to a 4 TD lead in the first half, wouldn't the prevent defense you went into in the second half possibly allow a lot of yards? And that would kill your 'ranking', even though you may be the best team with the best defense.

Or maybe your offense and special teams are so bad that they keep turning the ball over or giving the other team a short field. This could make a bad defense look great since they aren't allowing many yards.

Just sayin...

[Hokieskins1]

Pardon me if I'm wrong but wasn't it our D-line that couldn't pressure the opposing QBs and stop the run? If we can't stop the run, our health in the secondary won't even matter. Who's up for Redskins predictions? Obviously, the coaches DON'T know what they're doing and the so called experts do, otherwise, we wouldn't have gone 5-11 with one of the worse defenses ever. How do you go from 9th in the league to 31st just because of a couple injuries? Somebody please explain that to me.

:doh:

the injuries we had were KEY ones, we could not tackle to save our lives, the coaches put the guys out there and teach them to tackle, the coaches cant make the tackles themselves. why arent you the coach if ours DONT know anything.... its their job

[The Full Monty]

GW is not an idiot.

He made a huge mistake in signing off on AA in 2006. I don't know what he saw in Kenny Wright that made him an upgrade over Walt Harris.

The biggest mistake was not fighting to re-sign Antonio Pierce and believing that Pierce's success was replicable simply because of the "system".

It was also wrong for GW to bench AA and not talk to him afterwards.

Another mistake is likely keeping on Steve Jackson as safeties coach and allowing the safeties and corners to be in different meetings simply to give Steve Jackson the feeling of being elevated when he was passed over for the DB's coach job after the other guy took the UCLA job and we hired Jerry Gray. That was asinine.

GW has done some idiotic things, but he's no idiot. He's a good coach overall.

[Taylor 36]

I think with all the injuries last year we just couldnt do what he wanted and now that we have players and hopefully they stay healthy we'll have once again a top 5 or top 10 defense... I trust our staff completly

I agree and have always stated as much. We were decimated on both sides of the ball last year with injuries, and the team discovered how short on depth they were. Now we have sureed up our depth at the most importnt positions for GW's system. We should be much better this year.