When did Gregg Williams become an idiot?

[No_Pressure]

On those teams Gregg Williams sent only 3 linemen to the pro bowl in 7 years while sending 6 defensive backs and 2 linebackers.

Name a defensive lineman that Gregg Williams drafted. Now name a corner/safety Gregg Williams drafted.

Jevon Kearse, Aaron Schobel...

Samari Rolle, Nate Clements, Blaine Bishop, Sean Taylor, Carlos Rogers, Terrence McGee.

Gregg Williams' defenses rely on the secondary. The defensive lines he fielded in Tennessee and Buffalo were not that much better than the Redskins with the exception of Jevon Kearse pre-injuries for the most part. In 7 years he had maybe 2 good defensive lines put together, and many more good defenses. I don't know why people are angered and shocked by this years draft. Has Gregg Williams ever done things differently? Williams builds his defenses backwards. Thats just how he does it. It has worked for him so far. Good linebackers, good secondary, average-bad line. Throw in the fact that at different points last season Shawn Springs, Cornelius Griffin, Marcus Washington, Joe Salavea, and Lemar Marshall were injured, as well as Adam Archuleta failed. That means there was an issue with 6/11 starters on defense. Factor in that Carlos Rogers was really in his first year as the starter and got shoved to the #1 corner spot, one of our idiot coaches had the safeties reading different things than the corners and didn't have them meeting together, and we started Warrick Holdman again...this season was just a gigantic **** sandwich and IMO not a representation of how this defense, or defensive line really plays.

[NorthEast Skin]

4 years in the Top 10

2 years in the bottom 10

1 year dead smack in the middle

Obviously the good outweighs the bad but its not like 100% one way.

Who was the titans d coordinator prior to 2000

Gregg Williams was in 1997-2000 but I couldn't find good statistics for prior years but thanks skinsn24.

[madden lot]

Some of you would rather store your faith in news reporters who have never seen nor understand game tape. Some of you listen to reporters (radio, columnist, etc.

I never understood/stand those kind of sports lovers

[McD5]

I think the jury is still out on him. Seems he lost the locker room last season. Just like his mentor, Buddy Ryan everywhere he went.

Hopefully last season took a little of the arrogance out of him, and he will actually start communicating with players.

If not, this is his last season with the Skins. We certainly don't need that as a head coach.

[AllAboutSkins08]

Greg will have a bigger chip on his shoulder than the players. He is going to be pissed 24/7 and remain that way durring this season.

i like the sound of that.

[random thought] imagining GW being pissed all season reminded me of the movie remember the titans when coach yoast said "I don't want them to gain another yard. You blitz all night! If they cross that line of scrimmage I'mma take every last one of you out! I want you to make sure they remember, forever, the night the played the [Redskins]." that just kinda put a smile on my face. [/random thought]

[McD5]

Any reason you started in 2000

Titans 1997 - #22 Defense

Titans 1998 - #14 Defense

Titans 1999 - #18 Defense

+

Titans 2000 - #1 Defense

Bills 2001 - #23 Defense

Bills 2002 - #15 Defense

Bills 2003 - #2 Defense

Redskins 2004 - #3 Defense

Redskins 2005 - #9 Defense

Redskins 2006 - #31 Defense

=

4 top 10

3 bottom 10

3 middle of the pack

Just thought you should show the whole thing.

I like GW just think he is slightly ovverrated and has a huge ego

I agree 100%. And it took balls for you to post that in the forum. Good info, will keep people realistic.

[PeterMP]

On those teams Gregg Williams sent only 3 linemen to the pro bowl in 7 years while sending 6 defensive backs and 2 linebackers.

Name a defensive lineman that Gregg Williams drafted. Now name a corner/safety Gregg Williams drafted.

Jevon Kearse, Aaron Schobel...

Samari Rolle, Nate Clements, Blaine Bishop, Sean Taylor, Carlos Rogers, Terrence McGee.

For Williams' time in Buffalo they drafted one more DL than DB. Unfortunately, in general, I'm not sure how much say Williams had in draft in Buffalo or w/ the Titans.

Gregg Williams' defenses rely on the secondary. The defensive lines he fielded in Tennessee and Buffalo were not that much better than the Redskins with the exception of Jevon Kearse pre-injuries for the most part. In 7 years he had maybe 2 good defensive lines put together, and many more good defenses. I don't know why people are angered and shocked by this years draft. Has Gregg Williams ever done things differently? Williams builds his defenses backwards. Thats just how he does it. It has worked for him so far. Good linebackers, good secondary, average-bad line.

I'll say it again, as w/ the Titans he wasn't even the head coach and in Buffalo they had a real GM, I'm not sure how much say Williams had in building his defense. In both cases though they had DL that could get pressure on the QB. Not just Kearse, but Aaron Schobel.

Throw in the fact that at different points last season Shawn Springs, Cornelius Griffin, Marcus Washington, Joe Salavea and Lemar Marshall were injured

Do you expect Griffin, Springs, and Big Joe to stay healthy this year? That is their history and is one of the reasons we were able to get Griffin and Springs.

Adam Archuleta failed. That means there was an issue with 6/11 starters on defense. Factor in that Carlos Rogers was really in his first year as the starter and got shoved to the #1 corner spot, one of our idiot coaches had the safeties reading different things than the corners and didn't have them meeting together, and we started Warrick Holdman again...this season was just a gigantic **** sandwich and IMO not a representation of how this defense, or defensive line really plays.

Unfortunately, it is his defense and he had a hand in all of these situations/decisions.

[SonOfWashington]

Yea people being hurt had somthing to do with it.

:applause:

[Skinsinparadise]

Nice post, I've been arguing this point on other threads -- but I like the way you phrased it, am waiting to see if all those people that preach in these debates about how D's really work and how the Skins don't get it -- will take this on

[PeterMP]

Look, I should say that I don't dislike the Landry pick in terms of next year, especially considering the consensus is that there wasn't a DL there worth taking. I think long term it is a mistake w/ respect to the cap and keeping him and ST, and I didn't mind the LBs later because we need depth there and the chance of picking up an impact DL is low.

But let's not pretend that Gregg Williams is a god that never makes a mistake. He and people that are below him, and therefore he is responsible for, directly made decisions that resulted in the failed D last season. Also, don't pretend that there are potentially serious problems w/ this DL. Might they work out?

Sure. Griffin might turn back to the player he was in 2004 or one of the 2 nd year 6th round picks might develop into a real player, and Carter might be the player at the end of last year and not the guy at the beginning of the year. Those things would certainly help.

And don't pretend the problems w/ this secondary are fixed. Realistically, how good is this secondary if SS goes down again (or is traded)? They still don't have a legitimate #1 CB to take his place.

[argentina_redskins]

Maybe Joe Salave'a was hurt for most of the season as well as Cornelius Griffin. Anyone knew that Philip Daniels played injured most of the season?

I think they could have used a second day pick for a DE just for depth, but they got the guy from LSU in UDFA, so maybe he can crack the roster ...

[skinsn24]

Well as i mentioned before. Alot of it has to do with talented depth at key positions. Look at the Ravens, can you honestly say that Rex Ryan is a better coordinator than G. Williams? The only difference is that they have one of the greatest MLB's in NFL history in Ray Lewis, the best safety in the league in Ed Reed and a complement of young talented players that feed off their energy. Also don't neglect the fact that we were oft injured which killed us (i.e. Springs, Prieloeu, Griff, Daniels, M. Wash...etc).

This is obviously true, i just felt i should post his entire time with the titans instead of just the 1 year he led the league. That just didnt seem fair.

To be fair though williams gets to choose his players and his depth, just like most DCs do. Williams being the assistant head coach, prob has more say than most DCs in their personel selection.

AA not a money move, Rogers not a money pick, letting smoot and peirce go, not money

bringing smoot back, money.

[McD5]

So bottom line, if you go off of his record while coaching over his entire career, he is middle of the pack. A 5 on a scale of 1-10.

If you think injuries killed us last season, maybe add a 1/2 point to that 5.

If you think he coached up players last season, add another 1/2. If you think Arch was better at the end of the season than the beginning, or that Carlos was coached up big time, give his some credit.

If you think Arch was mishandled, Taylor was mishandled, and he lost a majority of the locker room, take some credit away.

Maybe he is a 5 our of 10. Maybe he is a 4 out of 10. If you think his arrogance is a good thing, then maybe he is a 5.

If you want a real scary thought, imagine Gibbs gone.....and Danny, Vinny and G Williams making the personnel decisions, and running the team. If you give any credence to the snitch article last season, such a scenario would make fans actually YEARN for Spurrier to return.

I think better health on the D will help him this season, maybe bringing us back up to the middle of the pack, where he has historically been. With a little luck, maybe even higher.

I think he is gone by the end of the season, and let's pray that he is gone before Gibbs is.

[thinker]

GW is a very innovative defensive coach. There is no denying that. What he lacks is management, organizational, and people skills. I think he also has displayed a tremendous degree of ego and arrogance. He was given a head coaching job and obviously he failed there - to a great degree due to poor people and management skills. It has been under his watch that Dale Lindsey mismanaged a number of his position players. It has been under his watch that the apparent lack of collaboration between Jackson and Gray the safeties and cb's coaches has been allowed to fester.

It seems fairly plain that in the past he has displayed an attitude that came across as saying that his schemes are more important than the players and that you can plug anyone into his scheme and you'll get a top defense. This attitude seemed apparent when he hasn't fought to keep core players and leaders who contributed to the chemistry of the team. Pierce and Clark are two guys whose loss was vastly underestimated. Maybe GW fought to keep Pierce and they couldn't pay him, but my guess is that if GW had said that guy is my defensive leader I HAVE to KEEP him - then we would have found a way. Kurt Schottenheimer and Marvin Lewis found a way to use the tremendous physical talent of Lavar and make him a pro-bowler. Under GW's watch, Lavar - the FACE OF THE TEAM - languished and was cut. I'm not saying that Lavar was blameless - he clearly was at fault too - it's just another example of the leader of the defense - GW - not being able to manage a tough personality.

We'll never know what GW's true idea was about AA - and lots of injuries disrupted whatever plan there was. But there certainly was vast visual evidence that AA was limited in coverage. Again if you have to have him - there is the implication that GW must have thought that he's smart enough with his schemes to take a one dimensional player and get great production from him. I know that GW did not decide what to pay AA so we can't put that on him - but he did tell the boss - Go get that guy for me.

I believe that this is in large measure why GW wanted to come to Washington and learn from the master leader and manager of people - Joe Gibbs. More than any two characteristics, Joe Gibbs embodies modesty and accountability. It's not apparent to me at least that GW has learned much of those things.

[NAILBOMB9]

I think he got what he deserved being ridiculed. His arrogance in thinking he can pust just ANYONE out there and his "genious" defensive schemes will prevail is a bunch of BS. No offense, but there were plenty of people playing on the defense that were pure terrible.

[Santana_Fan]

He became an idiot to me, when Lavar was cleared to play and didnt let him play. I know some people say that Lavar wasnt doing what he was supposed to and all, but he WAS alot better than Holdman. Putting Holdman in the game, was like leaving that linebacker position empty. I still like him though, just didnt approve of that move.

[deejaydana]

I would like to reverse the trend shown in his time. Nobody seems to ever remember how big a role injuries play in overall performance----I've got a short memory here too (we did get racked by many last year). Onward and upward I say!

[ibrahim]

I think with all the injuries last year we just couldnt do what he wanted and now that we have players and hopefully they stay healthy we'll have once again a top 5 or top 10 defense... I trust our staff completly

The main problem with the skins last season was we started two bum corners for the most part of the season: Rogers and Wright. They both had terribles seasons.

[LoudMouth12thMan]

I'm all about some G-dub. I know I'm Mr. Positive all the time, but G-dub is a great D coordinator. That's what I keep trying to tell everyone. One injury laden season and a crappy defense doesn't mean that he all of a sudden forgot how to coach. Hey, at least we can't get any worse :paranoid:

HTTR...NICE POST!

[Laxpunk2006]

He became an idiot to me, when Lavar was cleared to play and didnt let him play. I know some people say that Lavar wasnt doing what he was supposed to and all, but he WAS alot better than Holdman. Putting Holdman in the game, was like leaving that linebacker position empty. I still like him though, just didnt approve of that move.

While I was a big Lavar fan and still wish him the best, if he wasn't doing what he needs to do he can't play. What kind of message to the team would he make if he started a player who wasn't working properly over a player giving it his all just because of salary/status?

[Cali Boi]

I admit I been hard on G. Will because I was soooo pissed at how bad our D was but he's still a good coach.

[Santana_Fan]

While I was a big Lavar fan and still wish him the best, if he wasn't doing what he needs to do he can't play. What kind of message to the team would he make if he started a player who wasn't working properly over a player giving it his all just because of salary/status?

Yea I agree with what you're saying, that's true. But at the same time, Holdman was useless. Lavar made plenty of key stops for us the year before he left. I tried to see what "some" fans said about Holdman, which was he played his position and play within the scheme, but after what I saw in the 06' season, it''s still hard for me to believe that he actually started this guy over Arrington. :laugh: I'm sure anyone on here would be offended if Holdman took their spot.

[Dirk Diggler]

Any reason you started in 2000

Titans 1997 - #22 Defense

Titans 1998 - #14 Defense

Titans 1999 - #18 Defense

+

Titans 2000 - #1 Defense

Bills 2001 - #23 Defense

Bills 2002 - #15 Defense

Bills 2003 - #2 Defense

Redskins 2004 - #3 Defense

Redskins 2005 - #9 Defense

Redskins 2006 - #31 Defense

=

4 top 10

3 bottom 10

3 middle of the pack

Just thought you should show the whole thing.

I like GW just think he is slightly ovverrated and has a huge ego

I agree 100%. And it took balls for you to post that in the forum. Good info, will keep people realistic.

It's important to put these numbers into some context.

1) The 1999 defense was much better than middle of the pack. The Titans rode that defense to the Super Bowl and dismantled the high-flying Colts and a 15-1 Jacksonville offensive machine on the road. The 2000 defense was historically awesome and actually allowed fewer yards than the famous Ravens defense that year. Had it not been for a couple of special teams gaffes and turovers against Baltimore in the playoffs, we might be talking about the 2000 Titans as one of the best defenses ever. Baltimore beat them the same way we beat Tampa in the playoffs last season.

He leaves a top 2 defense and takes over the Bills.

2) When GW took over the cap-strapped Bills in 2001, he had to tear down the defense and build it back up again. They were in the process of losing Bruce Smith, Ted Washington, Phil Hansen, Henry Jones in 2000/01 - long time core defensive players. He also lost Sam Cowart to a very serious injury (Achilles I think) at a time when he was the best LB not named Ray Lewis. But by year 3, he's off to Washington leaving a top 5 defense in his wake.

3) No need to rehash history here in Washington. We all know the score. But to put it simply, Greg Williams is 2 for 3 so far.

And some of you want to can him because he's arrogant? Seriously...get a clue.

[Guest Knightwchmn]

Do you know why Gibbs says the D-line isn't the problem?!?! Williams doesn't believe in the D-line. Never has. He'd be just as happy to put me or you in that position. He puts all his faith and heart into the linebacker core (this is why Arrington "Tee'd" him off so much - Lavar was a loose cannon and wouldn't follow GW's strict plan for his precious linebackers - the unforgiveable sin in his eyes) Watch tapes of a game - this year at 5-11 or last year at 10-6 and focus on the D-line. They don't rush, or even attempt to - many times they stand up in their position and just "box" with their O-line assignment while the linebackers "hawk" in on the QB.

NOT BEING FUNNY HERE - OR SARCASTIC... this is fact - Go To the Tape!!

Not saying it's the right or wrong way to coach - looking at his track record, sometimes it works (1st ranked Defense) other season's it doesn't (32nd ranked). He's seen both - what will we, the fans, see in 2007.

[artmonkforHOF]

when did he become an idiot? Id say shortly after conception, well before birth.