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SUNSTONE

Anything MMA, except thumb wrestling

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The thing is, Nick Diaz isn't good at articulating, but I think one of his frustrations is that MMA judges are judging MMA bouts like they are boxing matches which is garbage because Boxing is a 12 round fight, you can get off to slow start or have some close rounds, and have 8 more rounds to make that up.

It shouldn't just be about volume in MMA because of how short the fights are. I would much rather fights get judged on significant strikes/takedowns, aggressiveness, etc etc instead of a pure compuboxx/boxing style of judging which awards fighters anytime they happen to make contact with the other fighter.

The strikers have learned how to game the system the way the wrestlers have just in a different way. Wrestlers are the worst culprit, Just get takedown after takedown which usually leads to nothing besides holding your opponent down, and win he match on points.

I think another good example of this was the Faber/Cruz fight. Cruz hit Faber with more shots, but Faber landed the harder and stronger shots, 2 of which dropped Cruz throughout the fight.

Edited by NoCalMike

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Carlos is a Greg Jackson product now. No more KO's, it's all about the decision victory. Safe.

He has always been a Greg Jackson product and look what he did to Hardy. It's all about the game plan, Jackson Camp / Carlos / 505... represent.

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Being a champion isn't about being a bad ass it's about putting the right game plan together. Nick was a better boxer and a stronger puncher... And he got beat because he's too damn stupid to realize that you can't lose most exchanges and win. Look at Nicks face, he sure as hell didn't do te most damage. He tried to be the terminator and taunt Condit and all he did was get punched and kicked in the face.

It takes more than moving forward to win. Dumb fighter and a ***** reaction after a loss. If that is what people prefer, stick to undercards.

Also it should be noted, Nick Diaz did virtually no damage. Grats on ineffective aggression, great plan. Maybe next time he should take the fight seriously... Once he gets over his hissy fit.

Edited by Destino

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That might be the first time I've seen someone get open hand ****ed slapped in the ring. Had to be frustrating to be attacking the entire fight only to get kicked in the leg by your opponent who then proceeds to run away. It worked and Carlos deserved the win but I can't stand when a fight turns out that way. I thought it was going to be a brawl. Oh well.

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Carlos is a Greg Jackson product now. No more KO's, it's all about the decision victory. Safe.

Yep, Bones Jones is all about decision victories. Cerrone & Garcia are all about playing it safe,

Greg Jackson got stereotyped because his two most successful fighters (Evans & GSP) play it safe. Its kinda lazy to suggest its a campwide problem.

That might be the first time I've seen someone get open hand ****ed slapped in the ring. Had to be frustrating to be attacking the entire fight only to get kicked in the leg by your opponent who then proceeds to run away. It worked and Carlos deserved the win but I can't stand when a fight turns out that way. I thought it was going to be a brawl. Oh well.

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Edited by StillUnknown

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That might be the first time I've seen someone get open hand ****ed slapped in the ring. Had to be frustrating to be attacking the entire fight only to get kicked in the leg by your opponent who then proceeds to run away. It worked and Carlos deserved the win but I can't stand when a fight turns out that way. I thought it was going to be a brawl. Oh well.

Are we pretending Nick didn't get kicked in the face at least 5 times? What damage did Nick do? None. But he looked awesome slapping and walking into punches. Maybe he should get the "acting cool" bonus money.

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Are we pretending Nick didn't get kicked in the face at least 5 times? What damage did Nick do? None. But he looked awesome slapping and walking into punches. Maybe he should get the "acting cool" bonus money.

Did you not read my post? I clearly said Carlos deserved the win. I just didn't like the way the fight played out. And I'm not even a Diaz fan.

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Diaz did do damage to Condit...mainly in the first couple of rounds when Condit was running to the other side of the cage anytime the two ended up in the same timezone.

As big a Diaz fan I am, I will never understand why he insists on making himself a one-dimensional fighter despite being a black belt in BJJ, (and not some weak second-hand black belt that a lot of fighters have). When he got Condit down, he immediately put him into danger, but there just wasn't time left. If I am Diaz, after about a round and a half of seeing Condit run, I would start anticipating that anytime he is up against the cage and try to go for takedown after takedown, cause the second he got one, it got pretty interesting, pretty fast.

That's Diaz, though.

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So are Condit & GSP both full-time Jackson guys? As in, they do the brunt of their training with him? Does this mean that either one of them leaves or he won't train either one for their fight?

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So are Condit & GSP both full-time Jackson guys? As in, they do the brunt of their training with him? Does this mean that either one of them leaves or he won't train either one for their fight?

Condit is full-time, GSP does most of his training in Canada with Tri-Star, Jackson would usually meet up with him close to fight time. Jackson's not going to corner either fighter.

Looking at some numbers online, Diaz landed 110 strikes against Condit. He landed 237 against BJ in a 3 rounder. Condit completely neutralized Diaz. BJ stood in the pocket and was destroyed for his efforts. Condit fought the only way he could if he wanted to win.

Edited by StillUnknown

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Ronda Rowdy Rousey

Ronda Rousey @RondaRousey Reply Favorite · Open

If I wanted to see a man run for 25 minutes I'd go to a track meet. Diaz is the real champ, what a bull**** fight

Dana said maybe they do Kos vs. Diaz next.

Question is, if GSP is out until November, does Condit fight one more time before then, and who?

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Dana just said he gave Diaz rounds 1,2 and Condit 3,4,5.

I gave Nick 1,2,5 how the hell does anybody give round 5 to Condit.

Dana just said maybe Diaz vs Koschek LOL

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Ronda Rowdy Rousey

Ronda Rousey @RondaRousey Reply Favorite · Open

If I wanted to see a man run for 25 minutes I'd go to a track meet. Diaz is the real champ, what a bull**** fight

Dana said maybe they do Kos vs. Diaz next.

Question is, if GSP is out until November, does Condit fight one more time before then, and who?

an Ellenberger rematch makes alot of sense, provided Ellenberger beats Sanchez. The first Condit/Ellenberger fight was extremely close and a hell of a fight.

---------- Post added February-5th-2012 at 02:43 AM ----------

a little nsfw because of language

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVyJt94u_VU

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That was a great gameplan once again from Jackson. Don't box with Diaz, utilize striking techniques you don't see in boxing. A lot of spinning elbows/backfists, and obviously the kicks were coming in at a ridiculous rate. Any time Carlos found himself against the fence he'd circle away and scurry to the center of the octagon. Nick thrives when people think they can just whale on him, but in doing so he plods around flatfooted and isn't very agile to begin with. Carlos avoided the strengths of his opponent as much as he could tonight, signature Jackson.

Edited by d0ublestr0ker0ll

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Condit should thank Joe Rogan for that fight. That was Diaz 3 rounds to 2 for sure.

Early on in the fight, I was the most upset I've ever been at Rogan. It reminded me of Shogun/Machida 1. Nick was snapping Carlos' head back, and Rogan kept praising Carlos :wtf?:

That said, the judges aren't listening to Joe, and I felt Condit won the fight, will have to watch it again.

Edited by d0ublestr0ker0ll

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Wow, sure is a lot of Condit hate on here. Come on 99 and Double, you guys are typically solid at calling a fight straight.

I had it exactly like the judges, 49/46 Condit and I actually had Nick winning this fight. It's MMA fella's, you can't discount the leg kicks, kicks to the body and aggressivness. Nick stood around waiting to counter, he didn't use his jab as effectively as he usually does and Carlos did an excellent job throwing counters when Nick did connect. Not to mention the fact, when Nick seemed to get him where he wanted, Carlos simply circled out and regrouped, excellent gameplan, perfect execusion. What we have here is pretty simple, a smarter, more well rounded MMA fighter beat a brawler, plain and simple! Nick got out smarted.

That being said, I hate it when idiots like Ronda Rousey make comments like that. She's on Nick's tip because he showed her some respect by training with her, but she's an MMA fighter, it should be obvious to her that Condit out fought Nick. Why in GODS name would anybody go in there an fight Nick's fight? There aren't too many guys in the UFC who are going to out brawl Nick, so why go in there and give him that? Why step into his world and let him tee off on you? You shouldn't, Carlos didn't and came out on top, kudos to Carlos.

Go back and rewatch the fight Nick, I think you'll see just how successful Carlos was and how ineffective you were. I gave you one round brother, sorry for your luck.

---------- Post added February-5th-2012 at 10:10 AM ----------

Early on in the fight, I was the most upset I've ever been at Rogan. It reminded me of Shogun/Machida 1. Nick was snapping Carlos' head back, and Rogan kept praising Carlos :wtf?:

That said, the judges aren't listening to Joe, and I felt Condit won the fight, will have to watch it again.

I swear I didn't watch the same fight as y'all. lol...I kept hollering at Joe "Jesus, get off Nick's nuts!". Even when Carlos was obviously winning Joe was talking about how close the fight was and how it could go either way. NOT EVEN CLOSE! Lol

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Condit should thank Joe Rogan for that fight. That was Diaz 3 rounds to 2 for sure.

x2 I gave Diaz 1,2 and 5.

Dana said he gave him 1,2 and Condit 3,4,5 I don't know how anyone did'nt give Diaz 5.

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The thing is, Nick Diaz isn't good at articulating, but I think one of his frustrations is that MMA judges are judging MMA bouts like they are boxing matches which is garbage because Boxing is a 12 round fight, you can get off to slow start or have some close rounds, and have 8 more rounds to make that up.

It shouldn't just be about volume in MMA because of how short the fights are. I would much rather fights get judged on significant strikes/takedowns, aggressiveness, etc etc instead of a pure compuboxx/boxing style of judging which awards fighters anytime they happen to make contact with the other fighter.

The strikers have learned how to game the system the way the wrestlers have just in a different way. Wrestlers are the worst culprit, Just get takedown after takedown which usually leads to nothing besides holding your opponent down, and win he match on points.

I think another good example of this was the Faber/Cruz fight. Cruz hit Faber with more shots, but Faber landed the harder and stronger shots, 2 of which dropped Cruz throughout the fight.

How a fight should be scored.

---------- Post added February-5th-2012 at 10:34 AM ----------

Wow, sure is a lot of Condit hate on here. Come on 99 and Double, you guys are typically solid at calling a fight straight.

I had it exactly like the judges, 49/46 Condit and I actually had Nick winning this fight. It's MMA fella's, you can't discount the leg kicks, kicks to the body and aggressivness. Nick stood around waiting to counter, he didn't use his jab as effectively as he usually does and Carlos did an excellent job throwing counters when Nick did connect. Not to mention the fact, when Nick seemed to get him where he wanted, Carlos simply circled out and regrouped, excellent gameplan, perfect execusion. What we have here is pretty simple, a smarter, more well rounded MMA fighter beat a brawler, plain and simple! Nick got out smarted.

That being said, I hate it when idiots like Ronda Rousey make comments like that. She's on Nick's tip because he showed her some respect by training with her, but she's an MMA fighter, it should be obvious to her that Condit out fought Nick. Why in GODS name would anybody go in there an fight Nick's fight? There aren't too many guys in the UFC who are going to out brawl Nick, so why go in there and give him that? Why step into his world and let him tee off on you? You shouldn't, Carlos didn't and came out on top, kudos to Carlos.

Go back and rewatch the fight Nick, I think you'll see just how successful Carlos was and how ineffective you were. I gave you one round brother, sorry for your luck.

---------- Post added February-5th-2012 at 10:10 AM ----------

I swear I didn't watch the same fight as y'all. lol...I kept hollering at Joe "Jesus, get off Nick's nuts!". Even when Carlos was obviously winning Joe was talking about how close the fight was and how it could go either way. NOT EVEN CLOSE! Lol

How a fight shouldn't be scored.

Just weak hitting your opponment more times does not mean a win in anywhere other than the UFC. If they want to play like this is the closest thing to reality, they need to start judging fights as who did the most damage. Not the number of weak punches thrown. Diaz is a culprit of this too, when he starts throwing flurries and they are all 50%. However, clearly diaz had the advantage that match and I would expect him to win if there another 5 rounds. Condit won because Jackson plays with the rules too much. Not really entertaining and not really how you would approach a real fight. Diaz like most fighters get into a tunnel vision match. He should been looking for takedowns and ground work after round 3. He has a black belt in BJJ, he should be confident in his abilities to control the match on the ground...

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How a fight should be scored.

---------- Post added February-5th-2012 at 10:34 AM ----------

How a fight shouldn't be scored.

Just weak hitting your opponment more times does not mean a win in anywhere other than the UFC. If they want to play like this is the closest thing to reality, they need to start judging fights as who did the most damage. Not the number of weak punches thrown. Diaz is a culprit of this too, when he starts throwing flurries and they are all 50%. However, clearly diaz had the advantage that match and I would expect him to win if there another 5 rounds. Condit won because Jackson plays with the rules too much. Not really entertaining and not really how you would approach a real fight. Diaz like most fighters get into a tunnel vision match. He should been looking for takedowns and ground work after round 3. He has a black belt in BJJ, he should be confident in his abilities to control the match on the ground...

Punches that don't do anything? Did you see Nicks face? Did you see how red his thigh was? LOL

Again, must have watched a completely different fight, Nick didn't hurt Condit and and was out worked. And if you think those leg kicks shouldn't count, I might be crazy for thinking this because I don't know you, but I would bet you'd curl into the fetal position after just one of them. Lol...this definitely wasn't one of those fights where a fighter did more damage but lost the fight, Carlos simply outworked Nick and refused to fight his game. That equals smart, nothing more, nothing less. He never wobbled Condit the entire fight and besides the one cut under his eye, he looked a hell of a lot better than Nick did when the fight was over.

Nick was acting like a *****, I'm sorry. He can't be pissed at the outcome of that fight. If he wants a backyard brawl then he needs to be pissed at Fritatta for the matchup, not at the system. He simply got outworked and out fought, grow up and take your lumps homie!

Edited by ZoEd

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Did anyone notice this dirty tactic by Werdum in the fight. I swear when the guy gets tired he starts resorting to dirty tricks like this.

2ufrb0l.gif

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Did anyone notice this dirty tactic by Werdum in the fight. I swear when the guy gets tired he starts resorting to dirty tricks like this.

I can't even call that dirty, thats hilarious to me. :ols:

---------- Post added February-5th-2012 at 11:47 AM ----------

Punches that don't do anything? Did you see Nicks face? Did you see how red his thigh was? LOL

Again, must have watched a completely different fight, Nick didn't hurt Condit and and was out worked. And if you think those leg kicks shouldn't count, I might be crazy for thinking this because I don't know you, but I would bet you'd curl into the fetal position after just one of them. Lol...this definitely wasn't one of those fights where a fighter did more damage but lost the fight, Carlos simply outworked Nick and refused to fight his game. That equals smart, nothing more, nothing less. He never wobbled Condit the entire fight and besides the one cut under his eye, he looked a hell of a lot better than Nick did when the fight was over.

Nick was acting like a *****, I'm sorry. He can't be pissed at the outcome of that fight. If he wants a backyard brawl then he needs to be pissed at Fritatta for the matchup, not at the system. He simply got outworked and out fought, grow up and take your lumps homie!

People are legitimately pissed at Condit for not playing rock'em sock'em robots with Nick Diaz. I cannot understand the hate coming to Condit. It would be understandable if the man had a history of playing it safe or had a history of being a boring fighter, but he has neither. That guy has one of the highest finishing percentages in all of MMA yet people are ready to change their opinion on him off of one night where he did the only thing he could to win that fight, its pretty damn ridiculous.

In any other sport, having and executing a strategy to beat a tough opponent, particularly in a championship situation, would be lauded. At the highest levels of this sport, strategy matters.

The hate coming Condit's way is absurd.

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Wow, sure is a lot of Condit hate on here. Come on 99 and Double, you guys are typically solid at calling a fight straight.

I had it exactly like the judges, 49/46 Condit and I actually had Nick winning this fight. It's MMA fella's, you can't discount the leg kicks, kicks to the body and aggressivness. Nick stood around waiting to counter, he didn't use his jab as effectively as he usually does and Carlos did an excellent job throwing counters when Nick did connect. Not to mention the fact, when Nick seemed to get him where he wanted, Carlos simply circled out and regrouped, excellent gameplan, perfect execusion. What we have here is pretty simple, a smarter, more well rounded MMA fighter beat a brawler, plain and simple! Nick got out smarted.

That being said, I hate it when idiots like Ronda Rousey make comments like that. She's on Nick's tip because he showed her some respect by training with her, but she's an MMA fighter, it should be obvious to her that Condit out fought Nick. Why in GODS name would anybody go in there an fight Nick's fight? There aren't too many guys in the UFC who are going to out brawl Nick, so why go in there and give him that? Why step into his world and let him tee off on you? You shouldn't, Carlos didn't and came out on top, kudos to Carlos.

Go back and rewatch the fight Nick, I think you'll see just how successful Carlos was and how ineffective you were. I gave you one round brother, sorry for your luck.

---------- Post added February-5th-2012 at 10:10 AM ----------

I swear I didn't watch the same fight as y'all. lol...I kept hollering at Joe "Jesus, get off Nick's nuts!". Even when Carlos was obviously winning Joe was talking about how close the fight was and how it could go either way. NOT EVEN CLOSE! Lol

How is the following hating on Condit?

That was a great gameplan once again from Jackson. Don't box with Diaz, utilize striking techniques you don't see in boxing. A lot of spinning elbows/backfists, and obviously the kicks were coming in at a ridiculous rate. Any time Carlos found himself against the fence he'd circle away and scurry to the center of the octagon. Nick thrives when people think they can just whale on him, but in doing so he plods around flatfooted and isn't very agile to begin with. Carlos avoided the strengths of his opponent as much as he could tonight, signature Jackson.

I thought that early on Rogan didn't catch some of the punches Nick landed on Carlos. He was all over the kicks Carlos answered with though. Beyond that, I also said I thought Carlos won. Sorry for even suggesting something against your boy, good gracious. When Carlos gets home be sure to give him my congrats.

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How a fight shouldn't be scored.

Just weak hitting your opponment more times does not mean a win in anywhere other than the UFC. If they want to play like this is the closest thing to reality, they need to start judging fights as who did the most damage. Not the number of weak punches thrown. Diaz is a culprit of this too, when he starts throwing flurries and they are all 50%. However, clearly diaz had the advantage that match and I would expect him to win if there another 5 rounds. Condit won because Jackson plays with the rules too much. Not really entertaining and not really how you would approach a real fight. Diaz like most fighters get into a tunnel vision match. He should been looking for takedowns and ground work after round 3. He has a black belt in BJJ, he should be confident in his abilities to control the match on the ground...

Nick did virtually no damage and looking at the fighters clearly took more damage. His leg took damage and buckled easy in the 4th and suddenly Nick took on more urgency. He got kicked in the face several times, caught knees, and took the worst of most exchanges. About the only thing Nick did was walk forward trying to draw a brawl.

He could have cut off the ring, pinned Condit to the cage, taken him down, or switched his strategy. He instead opted to go for cool points. Any judge that views that as "winning" should be judging fights in parking lots.

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