The Christian Message - Once for all

[authentic]

Funny thing is, as time goes on, religious leaders find more ways to make religion, tolerable, to the modern man/woman. Giving the world, Religion Lite. Because the original version is just too damn hard to follow. Bringing it closer to Carlin's view every day.

For an atheist, it's entertaining to watch.

Religion can serve a meaningful purpose, for those in need of a constant outside influence to guide them.

Unfortunately, just as heroin serves a valued purpose, abuse, and overindulgence in either, is counter-productive.

Thats because the modern-day version of Christianity is about money. Look at Osteen, Jakes, Price, White...etc. Its not about preaching the message, IN CONTEXT, out of the bible. Its mainly about preaching a message that will keep the congregants coming back and pacified so they could continue to give them money. The preaching against, divorce, fornication, covetousness, immodesty, will cut thier money off, so they conveniently avoid it. Which is why they can go on a national show like Larry King and state that they don't know who will or will not make it into heaven.

[authentic]

1 thru 10 is the jewish old testament. I pretty much focus on Jesus' life and the new testament. Jesus has a much more simple message that pretty much encompasses 1 thru 10, is more to the point and doesn't come with all of the baggage. I respect the jewish religion and history immensely, but I am not jewish and I do not practice their religion. Jesus simply said believe in Me and treat your neighbors as you would treat yourself. He also said judge not lest ye be judged. His teachings make sense to me.

Just to clarify. The New Testament has its roots and foundation in the Old Testament. When ever Jesus and the Apostles refered to scripture, it was from the Old Testament text. Though we saved by keeping the Old testament mandates (The Law of Moses), much of the New Testament commands are an offshoot of the Old Testament principles.

[illone]

The great one George Carlin, comes through once again with a salient and brilliant argument.

Yep. Tough to argue with the man, despite the whole thing being a joke it makes too much sense.

Some GUY sat down and wrote a book and the rest of us are just supposed to have FAITH that it's the word of God, and not some yahoo from the Bronze age with nothing better to do than think of spooky language to scare and control us?

Not buying it.

The funniest thing to me is how the Bible mentions "judge not lest ye be judged". (Matthew 7:1-6) yet Christians cast judgement all the time and tell people how to live their lives.

Hypocrisy at it's finest.

If there were a million gay people running around telling me that Christians were sinners and had hard hearts, needed Jesus, or had to switch sexual preference to get into heaven I'd have a hard time with that, too. It goes both ways.

From the wise words of Thomas Jefferson "I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance, or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others."

[Corcaigh]

But what did you think of the video? It moved me to tears.

I've been more convinced by a Chris Angel video.

[techboy]

Yep. Tough to argue with the man, despite the whole thing being a joke it makes too much sense.

Carlin is funny, though a better comedian than philosopher. The real issue here is that the person that tries to argue with a comedy video ends up looking like an insecure dork.

And I won't have anyone thinking I'm insecure. :pfft:

[CrypticVillain]

Too bad for the 2/3rds of the world who aren't Christians. Especially those not lucky enough to hear about Christianity. They are screwed.

Sorry for the delayed response.

But I remember hearing somebody say something about how everyman will have the choice to choose God and Jesus as their personal savior. After a thereral Google search I could not find it.

However, somebody told me about this verse:

14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

It's not their word, it's not my word, it's his word and that is all I can go by.

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

Any male on this board denying they have had lust in their heart is uhhhh lying.

Just saying.

But I would love to see the article.

that emoticon makes me believe you dont wanna see the article

i dont have it anyways i read it in some religious magazine while i was spending the night in someones house.

[grego]

The funniest thing to me is how the Bible mentions "judge not lest ye be judged". (Matthew 7:1-6) yet Christians cast judgement all the time and tell people how to live their lives.

Hypocrisy at it's finest.

illone, thats always a point brought up, but it really shouldnt be. to think that christians shouldnt 'judge' anything is really nonsense. how can anyone make a decision in life without 'judgement'?? taken in context, jesus is warning that IF you do judge, you better make sure your crap is together, otherwise you are being an ass and you will look as such.

nobody but God makes final 'judgement', of course. but 'judging' that somebody is a crackhead alcoholic, for example, therefore, we would do better to not loan them that G they are asking for is encouraging the ability using your brain, rather than being mean to someone.

in short, at least. techboy can explain better than i.

[illone]

illone, thats always a point brought up, but it really shouldnt be. to think that christians shouldnt 'judge' anything is really nonsense. how can anyone make a decision in life without 'judgement'?? taken in context, jesus is warning that IF you do judge, you better make sure your crap is together, otherwise you are being an ass and you will look as such.

What puts you in the catbird seat to decide how others should live?

Sure, everyone judges others, I do it everyday, but I don't assume my lifestyle and religious or spiritual choices are right for everyone.

Christians are always trying to sell me on their lifestyle, that its so much better and that I won't get to heaven unless I conform to it.

Hogwash.

Sell that junk somewhere else, I'm all stocked up on crazy;)

[dwbiggs]

I want to see you and all Skins fan and a few cowboy fans up their but unless the know what Gospel that Jesus taught while on earth they wont get to the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus only taught one Gospel while on earth.

What about what Mohammad taught? Just picking Islam as example but what makes you think Christianity is right and Islam is wrong? I'm sure Islam has as much "proof" as Christianity has to support their righteousness. Just asking. :whoknows:

And what about all the folks that lived before Jesus...did they get a free pass...is their something in the Bible about that? What about the isolated tribe that may never have contact with the "civilized" world...are they screwed?

[AzSkinsFan63]

What about what Mohammad taught? Just picking Islam as example but what makes you think Christianity is right and Islam is wrong? I'm sure Islam has as much "proof" as Christianity has to support their righteousness. Just asking. :whoknows:

And what about all the folks that lived before Jesus...did they get a free pass...is their something in the Bible about that? What about the isolated tribe that may never have contact with the "civilized" world...are they screwed?

Comparing Islam with Biblical Christianity is ludicrious.

Kill the infidel

Kill Jews and Christians..religion of peace..really??

Look up Dhimmitude see what that means.....

They live like heathens in most Arab states.

But practically everywhere Christianity has flourished true freedom has prospered. This is the reason why no one wants to believe the truth that this nation was completely founded on Biblical Judeo-Christian values. They would rather believe a lie even with all the evidence that abounds.

Muslims are truly an enslaved people run by tyrants.

Do woman in this country actually want to wear Burqas and head scarves? I am so amazed that women's rights groups do not speak up about the horrors of Islam. It amazes me to no end that the whole world is not against this.

Everyone just sits back and watches as Islam tries to take over and dominate the world, because they don't want to rock the boat and piss Islam off. All the while they are kicking that nasty old Christianity out the door..

Christianity says...

Love the Lord your God with all your heart mind and soul and love your neighbor as I have loved you. (true Peace) You cannot have nothing but peace if everyone abides in these 2 commandments.

There is no comparison, it's so far away that if you don't believe what I am saying then you need to seriously consider what the Bible says about the last days.

"Men will call evil good and good evil."

"The love of many shall wax cold"

"lawlessness will abound"...

"And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another" (hatred in this world is at an all time high) (Matt 24:10)

"And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.(2 Thessalonians 2:11-12)

If the god of Islam was real, shouldn't that be the god everyone despises? We don't even want to equate terrorism with Islam in this country for fear and political correctness.

The God of the Bible sent Jesus to save the world. What did Jesus do to deserve such blashemy and mockery?? And why does it even happen to this day 2000 years later?

Islam teaches your son or daughter to strap a bomb to their ass and blow himself up killing as many infidels as possible.

On the other hand the Bible says "God sent His only begotten Son and whosover believes in him shall not die but have everlasting life?"(John 3:16)

Islam enslaves women, it kills homosexuals. Islam sets womens rights back to the 16th century and every one is scared to piss of the muslims with a friggin cartoon of Mohammad..LOL

Jesus Christ lived the perfect life that I can't possibly do even when I try my best according to his laws, but if I only believe that he truly is "the way, the truth and the life" and accept his sacrifice for my sins I can be a part of the family of God.

All one really has to do is look at the greatest prophecy the world has ever seen. The nation of Israel reborn in a day,May 14th 1948 just like the Bible, a book written 3000 years ago predicted. A book of 66 books written by 40 different authors spanning 1700 years and tells the beginning to the end of the ages.

A book that said the Jews would be scattered and hated among the nations due to their rebellious behavior and then brought back from a desert of dry bones to an oasis in the desert surrounded by it's enemy and that Jerusalem would become a "burdensome stone" to all the nations of the world. the dome of the rock sits on top of the temple mount and Arabs to this day claim it to be their land and yet all the artifacts point to Isreal and the jewish people.(lie)

yet they came back to Israel just like the Bible predicted....

I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring My sons from far, and My daughters from the ends of the earth." (Isaiah 43:6)

For centuries, without a nation, land or flag, they endured; their culture, religion and ethnicity intact, surviving even the Holocaust.

Twenty-five hundred years ago, the Prophet Isaiah asked these questions:

"Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once?. . . "

Q. "Who hath heard such a thing?" A. Of all the generations who ever lived from Isaiah until May 14, 1948, only THIS generation can answer that question, "We Have."

Q. "Who hath seen such things?" A. When Isaiah asked that question, and for another 2,500 years after that, the answer was, "nobody."

Of all those generations across the ages, only this generation can say that we hath seen such things a 'nation born at once' a nation which, as Isaiah continues, is identified as Zion; "for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children." (Isaiah 66:8)

We witnessed within our lifetime, the "earth being made to bring forth in one day" that day being December 25, 2001 when the Soviet Union collapsed.

The north at last gave up the last of her captives as the former Soviet refuseniks finally escaped to the Promised Land

Never in all of recorded history has there been an event more clearly prophesied nor literally fulfilled than the restoration of the Jews to the same piece of geographic real estate from which they had been evicted -- not once, but twice.

[CrabR]

but practically everywhere Christianity has flourished true freedom has prospered.

Once they kicked the church and religion out of the states business we had some freedom. Every time religion creeps in we lose some

God of the Bible is a dictator the first 4 of his '10' commandants go against the US constitution

[JimboDaMan]

I'm always fascinated by the belief that living a life of goodness and kindness is somehow not enough, in fact is not even necessary to reach an eternal reward. Instead there are specific rules to follow, tenets to believe, beings to revere, those are the things that really matter.

I think the guys who do stuff because its the way into heaven, ain't getting into heaven.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Comparing Islam with Biblical Christianity is ludicrious.

Kill the infidel

Kill Jews and Christians..religion of peace..really??

Look up Dhimmitude see what that means.....

You gotta stop reading and listening to Robert Spencer. He is an imbecile and racist

.

But practically everywhere Christianity has flourished true freedom has prospered. This is the reason why no one wants to believe the truth that this nation was completely founded on Biblical Judeo-Christian values. They would rather believe a lie even with all the evidence that abounds.

I guess you have never heard of perpetual servitude, the inquistion, crusades, massacare of native americans. Nor have you heard of the Treaty of Tripoli, circa 1797, ratified by the United States Senate, signed by President John Adams

Article 11

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

Everyone just sits back and watches as Islam tries to take over and dominate the world, because they don't want to rock the boat and piss Islam off. All the while they are kicking that nasty old Christianity out the door..

Where on Earth is Islam "taking over the world" :ols:

Oh thats right, the "stealth jihad" in America

If the god of Islam was real, shouldn't that be the god everyone despises? We don't even want to equate terrorism with Islam in this country for fear and political correctness.

What on earth are you even talking about here?

Islam teaches your son or daughter to strap a bomb to their ass and blow himself up killing as many infidels as possible.

Find me a link to a Surah in the Quran or Hadith that states this. Thats right, you can't

Islam enslaves women, it kills homosexuals. Islam sets womens rights back to the 16th century

You probably don't want to read the Old Testament then, in particular Levitcus

Sorry for the thread hijack, but when I see blatant Islamaphobia on this board thats rooted in ignorance, outright lies, and "facts" from the likes of Spencer and Pipes, its too hard for me not to squash it

[robotfire]

I'm always fascinated by the belief that living a life of goodness and kindness is somehow not enough, in fact is not even necessary to reach an eternal reward. Instead there are specific rules to follow, tenets to believe, beings to revere, those are the things that really matter.

I think the guys who do stuff because its the way into heaven, ain't getting into heaven.

I have never met someone who has objectively read the Bible and come to the conclusion that keeping the commandments is "not even necessary" for salvation. There is nothing to support such a claim except for a small handful of excerpts that are taken way out of context. Here's a fairly good article on the relationship of faith and works: http://www.ewtn.com/library/answers/faworks.htm . No, I am not Catholic, but I think this Catholic guy hits the nail on the head here.

I don't intend to attack you on this. Everyone is entitled to believe whatever they choose. But there is page after page of people failing at life and being punished for disobeying God. How can you read that and then claim that it's "not even necessary" to obey Him?

That being said, I do agree that repentance and coming unto Christ is required for salvation. After all, no matter how hard we try, we make mistakes and are unclean without Him.

[chipwhich]

I have never met someone who has objectively read the Bible and come to the conclusion that keeping the commandments is "not even necessary" for salvation. There is nothing to support such a claim except for a small handful of excerpts that are taken way out of context. Here's a fairly good article on the relationship of faith and works: http://www.ewtn.com/library/answers/faworks.htm . No, I am not Catholic, but I think this Catholic guy hits the nail on the head here.

I don't intend to attack you on this. Everyone is entitled to believe whatever they choose. But there is page after page of people failing at life and being punished for disobeying God. How can you read that and then claim that it's "not even necessary" to obey Him?

That being said, I do agree that repentance and coming unto Christ is required for salvation. After all, no matter how hard we try, we make mistakes and are unclean without Him.

Still on my question. 2/3rds of the world isn't Christian. Heck who knows what portion of this world doesn't even know of the bible.

Then throw in the majority of the people from "the holy land" aren't Christian.

So given that the majority of the world isn't Christian at all, the real question is what are you reading and who cares?

I am only playing devils advocate. But just saying.....

So your question is as valid as saying, I just read the book of Mormon, and how can you argue against it if you read it objectively. It's an invalid question.

[Stadium-Armory]

Please explain this part of the message to me:

"You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

[chipwhich]

Please explain this one to me:

"You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Another fun topic while playing devils advocate....

Lets say you are an African American and ancestors were slaves (which I am neither). How could you follow a religion which was implemented by the people who enslaved you? Just tailgate fun

[JimboDaMan]

I have never met someone who has objectively read the Bible and come to the conclusion that keeping the commandments is "not even necessary" for salvation. There is nothing to support such a claim except for a small handful of excerpts that are taken way out of context. Here's a fairly good article on the relationship of faith and works: http://www.ewtn.com/library/answers/faworks.htm . No, I am not Catholic, but I think this Catholic guy hits the nail on the head here.

I don't intend to attack you on this. Everyone is entitled to believe whatever they choose. But there is page after page of people failing at life and being punished for disobeying God. How can you read that and then claim that it's "not even necessary" to obey Him?

That being said, I do agree that repentance and coming unto Christ is required for salvation. After all, no matter how hard we try, we make mistakes and are unclean without Him.

You seem to equate "living a life of goodness" = keeping the ten comandments. I stipulate that you can a) follow all ten commandments to the letter and still be a rotten person, and lead a wonderful and exemplary life while violating at least some fo the Commandments like mad.

Beyond that, you yourself will probably agree that those who wantonly violate all ten Commandments and then find God are welcomed into heaven.

[JimboDaMan]

Another fun topic while playing devils advocate....

Lets say you are an African American and ancestors were slaves (which I am neither). How could you follow a religion which was implemented by the people who enslaved you? Just tailgate fun

I guess the same way you can swear allegiance to a nation that once enslaved you.

[Stadium-Armory]

I guess the same way you can swear allegiance to a nation that once enslaved you.

The nation, as defined by its laws, can change. It could (to some degree) "make things right". Can a religion?

[robotfire]

Please explain this part of the message to me:

"You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

I briefly looked at this and it seemed like a fair response... here's what I found by googling real quick (in a Yahoo post):

When a Hebrew becomes a slave because of debt.

And if one of your brethren who dwells by you becomes poor, and sells himself to you, you shall not compel him to serve as a slave. As a hired servant and a sojourner he shall be with you, and shall serve you until the Year of Jubilee. And then he shall depart from you; he and his children with him; and shall return to his own family. He shall return to the possession of his fathers. For they are My servants, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt; they shall not be sold as slaves. You shall not rule over him with rigor, but you shall fear your God. And as for your male and female slaves whom you may have; from the nations that are around you, from them you may buy male and female slaves. Moreover you may buy the children of the strangers who dwell among you, and their families who are with you, which they beget in your land; and they shall become your property. And you may take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them as a possession; they shall be your permanent slaves. But regarding your brethren, the children of Israel, you shall not rule over one another with rigor.

a. You shall not compel him to serve as a slave: In the Mosaic law, if one chronically could not pay his debts, he would have to work off the debt as a servant of his creditor. But these laws command fair, just and compassionate treatment of any Jewish man so unfortunate.

b. Shall serve you until the Year of Jubilee: Not only must such a servant be released when his debt was paid, but he also must be released at the year of Jubilee.

c. And as for your male and female slaves whom you may have; from the nations that are around you, from them you may buy male and female slaves: Foreign slaves among the Jews did not have the same rights as Hebrew slaves sold into servitude because of debt; they could be held as slaves for life, though they had to be treated humanely (Exodus 20:8-11; 21:20-21).

Slavery was permitted in the Bible because of sin in the world. It existed before the Jews were formed as a nation and it existed after Israel was conquered. God allows many things to happen in the world such as storms, famine, murder, etc. Slavery, like divorce, is not preferred by God. Instead, it is allowed. Where many nations treated their slaves very badly, the Bible gave many rights and privileges to slaves. So, even though it isn't the best way to deal with people, because God has allowed man freedom, slavery then exists. God instructed the Israelites to treat them properly.

The Bible acknowledged the slave’s status as the property of the master (Ex. 21:23; Lev. 25:46),

The Bible restricted the master’s power over the slave. Ex. 21:20).

The slave was a member of the master’s household (Lev. 22:11)

The slave was required to rest on the Sabbath (Exodus 20:10; Deut. 5:14)

The slave was required and to participate in religious observances (Gen. 17:13; Exodus 12:44; Lev. 22:11).

The Bible prohibited extradition of slaves and granted them asylum (Deut. 23:16-17).

The servitude of a Hebrew debt-slave was limited to six years (Ex. 21:2; Deut. 15:12).

When a slave was freed, he was to receive gifts that enabled him to survive economically (Deut. 15:14)

The reality of slavery cannot be denied. Slaves were "slave labor played a minor economic role in the ancient Near East, for privately owned slaves functioned more as domestic servants than as an agricultural or industrial labor force."1

[CrypticVillain]

Please explain this part of the message to me:

"You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Another fun topic while playing devils advocate....

Lets say you are an African American and ancestors were slaves (which I am neither). How could you follow a religion which was implemented by the people who enslaved you? Just tailgate fun

I found this link when looking on Google "What Does The Bible Really Say About Slavery?"

At the end this what it says:

Slavery has been a grave social evil. Thankfully, it no longer exists in most of our civilized world. Terrible economic inequities remain, and as Christians we should do what we can to end them. But this is the task of individual Christian citizens, not of the church. The mandate of the church is to evangelize, to teach the Scriptures, and to provide for believers an atmosphere in which they can grow toward Christlikeness in character and conduct.

In our age, when many boast about their freedom to live their lives as they choose, our primary task is not just to make people aware of moral law. Changing their thinking about moral matters is not enough. Our responsibility is to point them to Jesus and the freedom He alone can bring. He issued a solemn warning to a group of people who boasted about their freedom: "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin" (Jn. 8:34). Since "the wages of sin is death" (Rom. 6:23), bondage to sin is the worst of all forms of slavery.

To deliver us from the eternal separation from God in hell, God in the person of Jesus became a member of the human race through a miraculous virgin birth. He lived a sinless life, and then went to the cross where the Father "made Him [the Son] who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God" (2 Cor. 5:21). Those who believe on Jesus are set free from the guilt of sin, receive power to overcome sin, and are delivered from the fear of death. Now that's real freedom!

I don't know if this answers your questions, but this will have to do because I am tired. lol

[Stadium-Armory]

Slavery was permitted in the Bible because of sin in the world. It existed before the Jews were formed as a nation and it existed after Israel was conquered. God allows many things to happen in the world such as storms, famine, murder, etc. Slavery, like divorce, is not preferred by God. Instead, it is allowed. Where many nations treated their slaves very badly, the Bible gave many rights and privileges to slaves. So, even though it isn't the best way to deal with people, because God has allowed man freedom, slavery then exists. God instructed the Israelites to treat them properly.

It seems to be more than allowed, its specifically outlined in Leviticus with parameters around how the practice should be carried out. If slavery were incidentally permitted in the bible because of the sin in the world, why would God leave explicit instructions on its practice?

[Stadium-Armory]

"If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever." (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

Notice how they can get a male Hebrew slave to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent slave. What kind of family values are these?

The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?

"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. " (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

Someone please explain this part of the message to me.