The Christian Message - Once for all

[techboy]

You are right.

Then we are agreed. Excellent.

OK

See, this is why I like you. You've got a good sense of humor.

You'll have to see if you can find somebody else to follow you in circles, though. I'm done.

[joeknows]

uuuuugh thousands of years of evolution and some of you still cant get it right. and i will pretty much leave it at that except......

why do so many of you think sunday is the sabbath???? didnt the bible say that you should hold the 7th day as the sabbath and holy? sunday is the FIRST day of the week and has been since biblical days.

and im supposed to blindly follow a religion that cant even practice what it preaches much less practice on the day you are SUPPOSED to.

and yeah i hate these threads because if i really let loose on the bible thumpers i would get banned.

[grego]

and im supposed to blindly follow a religion that cant even practice what it preaches much less practice on the day you are SUPPOSED to.

i believe only seventh day adventists worship on the jewish sabbath (not really saturday though- its friday night to saturday night).

most christians believe that we are not 'under the law', but under 'grace'. as such, most believe there are no restrictions as to when you worship.

techboy could tell you exactly why most christians worship on sunday (or you could probably google it, but his answers will be better).

and yeah i hate these threads because if i really let loose on the bible thumpers i would get banned.

i was going to ask, then, why you clicked on the thread?

[CrabR]

because if i really let loose on the bible thumpers i would get banned.

They mean well. their cult calls for them to witness to others. I have Been their and done that so i understand. It is not easy to break free because you cannot reason outside the box when you are in a cult.

They forget about all the nonsense in the bible or try to make excuses for their cruel and blood thirsty bible god of the bible.

all the silly verses i quote are either out of context not in the original Aramaic bad translation or you have to have the holy ghost to understand the verse

Jesus loves me and if i do not believe him he will torture me with fire forever and ever tol show hnow much he really loves me

I cannot believe i ever bought that stuff, that is what happens when you are indoctrinated from birth.

[joeknows]

i was going to ask, then, why you clicked on the thread?

curiosity i guess. or maybe i thought for once i would find something enlightening but not surprisingly..... i didnt.

but about the sunday thing....... the bible specifically says to hold the 7th day as the sabbath.... so how does it work? the bible is rules that apply to everyone but those that call themselves christians??

[grego]

crab, i'm not sure christianity meets the criteria of a cult (but some groups calling themselves 'christian' certainly do- jim jones, branch davidians).

sounds like you had a bad experience. i'm curious, what 'church' were you affiliated with/raised in?

[grego]

curiosity i guess. or maybe i thought for once i would find something enlightening but not surprisingly..... i didnt.

i'm always fascinated by techboy. that guy is good. a walking talking encyclopedia.

[joeknows]

They mean well. their cult calls for them to witness to others. I have Been their and done that so i understand. It is not easy to break free because you cannot reason outside the box when you are in a cult.

They forget about all the nonsense in the bible or try to make excuses for their cruel and blood thirsty bible god of the bible.

all the silly verses i quote are either out of context not in the original Aramaic bad translation or you have to have the holy ghost to understand the verse

Jesus loves me and if i do not believe him he will torture me with fire forever and ever tol show hnow much he really loves me

I cannot believe i ever bought that stuff, that is what happens when you are indoctrinated from birth.

this is exactly how i feel. however i do want to point out that ... i dont dislike christians...... many of the best people i have known in my life are christian...... it is the judgemental self righteous bible thumping types that have never read beyond what their preacher points out on their sacriligious day of worship that bug the hell out of me.

i dont judge people for what they believe..... as a buddhist i dont want to be judged either..... but i dont go around telling everyone that they are wrong and i am right because a book says so. i may believe i am right and they are wrong but that is between me and god and them and god.

[Tweedr01]

So your decision is based on wikipedia??????

You aren't really asking him to post everything he knows are you? You realize techboy could turn this thread into a book if he wanted to just based on links he knows off the top of his head. I think he was just being nice with the wiki page.

[Tweedr01]

this is exactly how i feel. however i do want to point out that ... i dont dislike christians...... many of the best people i have known in my life are christian...... it is the judgemental self righteous bible thumping types that have never read beyond what their preacher points out on their sacriligious day of worship that bug the hell out of me.

i dont judge people for what they believe..... as a buddhist i dont want to be judged either..... but i dont go around telling everyone that they are wrong and i am right because a book says so. i may believe i am right and they are wrong but that is between me and god and them and god.

I actually responded to something similar posted in this thread, although I think you did a much better job of giving your opinion without bashing other's opinions. There are many out there who try to force their beliefs on others, I just think that in our society we have highlighted Christians as the only ones who do.

I have had a few friends over the years who are buddhist, some of the most mild mannered people I have met....except for the one on our football team . Some of them believe that buddhism is a religion, the others believe it is more of a way of life, so they consider themselves buddhist Christians, any insight on this?

[grego]

but about the sunday thing....... the bible specifically says to hold the 7th day as the sabbath.... so how does it work? the bible is rules that apply to everyone but those that call themselves christians??

that is an OT commandment. still, it doesnt mean that its irrelevant to christians.

Romans 6:14-15, “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.”

pretty much everything in the old testament is a foreshadowing of what was to come- even the sabbath.

"So then, there remains a sabbath rest for the people of God [it is available to us now]; for whoever enters God's rest also ceases from his labors as God did from his." (Hebrews 4:9-10)

for the christian, accepting christ is observing the sabbath- he is the sabbath. its not a day, its a state of your heart- as it was always supposed to be. this is the quick answer anyway.

like i said, techboy is very good at explaining things like this- its a gift and sorry for the cut and paste bible verses. one always comes off as preachy when citing bible verses, but its much easier to explain something like this (and probably necessary, really to explain it) using them.

[grego]

btw, joe, i think your aversion to bible thumping christians has something to do with where you happen to live. where i'm from, anyone falling under the category of 'born again christian' is in the minority, so its funny when we hear somone talk about the kinds of christians that are, say, rude or pushy. up here, its closer to the opposite. lots of darwin fish on cars and democratic party bumper stickers and such

[Chris0894]

ill say it....."Dear God, today I turn away from all of my sins (he knows). This day I put my trust in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. He is the only way for me to be saved. He is 'The way, the truth, and the life.'" Please forgive me, change my heart, and grant me Your gift of everlasting life. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen."

[joeknows]

tweedr im not sure about christian buddhists although i dont see why one mind cant entertain 2 thoughts at once. for me it is not so much religion as it is spirituality and a way of life. however.... there is a growing opinion among theological scholars that due to star dating there may be 6 years of christ's life that are missing. some believe that during his travels he may have studied buddhism which would explain him praying in " a trance like state" they didnt have a word for meditation back then from what i understand.

i have seen a book that did a side by side comparison of buddhas quotes and christs quotes and they both taught VERY similar lessons.

greg..... i was raised in the south and raised to be a "southern baptist" i have grown to despise anything baptist..... but that is merely my personal opinion. as i said.... i dont judge all christians as being bad or whatever but i certainly despise those that tell me i am going to hell because i dont belive in their messiah.

fact is i have tried to believe jesus was the son of god but in my heart i just do not believe it. about 5 years ago i finally decided to face the fact that no matter what i am told or taught i will most likely NEVER believe it and i decided to quit trying to fool myself.

i chose to read the bible from cover to cover as well as a few other books on religion when i realized i didnt need religion in my life i needed spirituality. i found buddhism to be exactly what i needed when i needed it. it seemed to make sense to seek something that represents what i know and believe in my heart versus trying to convince myself of something.

and yes being from the "bible belt" i have had my fill of "thumpers"

[Tweedr01]

tweedr im not sure about christian buddhists although i dont see why one mind cant entertain 2 thoughts at once. for me it is not so much religion as it is spirituality and a way of life. however.... there is a growing opinion among theological scholars that due to star dating there may be 6 years of christ's life that are missing. some believe that during his travels he may have studied buddhism which would explain him praying in " a trance like state" they didnt have a word for meditation back then from what i understand.

i have seen a book that did a side by side comparison of buddhas quotes and christs quotes and they both taught VERY similar lessons.

greg..... i was raised in the south and raised to be a "southern baptist" i have grown to despise anything baptist..... but that is merely my personal opinion. as i said.... i dont judge all christians as being bad or whatever but i certainly despise those that tell me i am going to hell because i dont belive in their messiah.

fact is i have tried to believe jesus was the son of god but in my heart i just do not believe it. about 5 years ago i finally decided to face the fact that no matter what i am told or taught i will most likely NEVER believe it and i decided to quit trying to fool myself.

i chose to read the bible from cover to cover as well as a few other books on religion when i realized i didnt need religion in my life i needed spirituality. i found buddhism to be exactly what i needed when i needed it. it seemed to make sense to seek something that represents what i know and believe in my heart versus trying to convince myself of something.

and yes being from the "bible belt" i have had my fill of "thumpers"

lol, i didn't even think to check where you were from, you are definitely in the bible belt!

not trying to be preachy, i can certainly understand that some churches will try and push their 'religion' on you. i firmly believe that practicing religion is what pushes people away from God, what i wish more churches would practice is building a personal relationship with God. there's actually a song called 'die, religion, die' from Brian "Head" Welch that i love.

[CrabR]

crab, i'm not sure christianity meets the criteria of a cult (but some groups calling themselves 'christian' certainly do- jim jones, branch davidians).

sounds like you had a bad experience. i'm curious, what 'church' were you affiliated with/raised in?

Baptist

Most religions are a cult, do Christians think there is other ways to heaven or just their way.Can a non believer in Christ make it to heaven

i dont dislike christians

Neitgher do i, as i said before, been there done that i understand them. I also know it is much better on the outside than on the inside. I do not have make believe creatures looking over my shoulder any longer

ill say it....."Dear God, today I turn away from all of my sins (he knows). This day I put my trust in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. He is the only way for me to be saved. He is 'The way, the truth, and the life.'" Please forgive me, change my heart, and grant me Your gift of everlasting life. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen."

My rock outside my door will do as much for you if you believe and you will feel just as good

[grego]

i have seen a book that did a side by side comparison of buddhas quotes and christs quotes and they both taught VERY similar lessons.

the problem with comparing quotes from buddha and christ is that, while buddha predates christ by hundreds of years, buddhist teachings were always passed down orally, not written down. a critic would cite the 'telephone game' and say who knows what buddha really said?

so there is debate as to whether christianity influenced current buddhist teachings or buddhist teaching influenced christ.

i realized i didnt need religion in my life i needed spirituality. i found buddhism to be exactly what i needed when i needed it. it seemed to make sense to seek something that represents what i know and believe in my heart versus trying to convince myself of something.

funny thing is, i feel the same way. i dont consider myself religious at all. churches that are all about tradition, repetitive prayers, ritual and such are probably missing the mark, imo. christianity is about a relationship with God, not about religion. its a shame many people get it wrong.

we are very similar in this regard, joe.

[Corcaigh]

My rock outside my door will do as much for you if you believe and you will feel just as good

Given your knowledge of different faiths, perhaps you can help ...

It's not a rock, but there's a raccoon living in a burrow near the front door of my home. Each time I see him the following day something good happens in my life.

What kind of sacrifice or offering would be appropriate for me to make to this benevolent spirit?

[illone]

The interesting thing about this post is that nobody forced you to click on this thread. The topic is clearly marked with a descriptive title, and if you didn't want to have it sold to you, you didn't have to come into the store.

On the other hand, you have now at least twice tried to tell people that they shouldn't believe in the message in which they must have been interested in some way, since they opened the thread.

Just who is selling something here?

touche:ols:

When did I tell people they shouldn't believe in it?

I'm VERY tolerant of other's beliefs and choices, I just don't think it's legit to try to get me to believe in what YOU believe in. I pass no judgement, believe in what you want, just don't push it on me, get it?

[Zguy28]

curiosity i guess. or maybe i thought for once i would find something enlightening but not surprisingly..... i didnt.

but about the sunday thing....... the bible specifically says to hold the 7th day as the sabbath.... so how does it work? the bible is rules that apply to everyone but those that call themselves christians??

Christians meet together and worship on Sunday because Sunday is the Lord's Day. It is the day of the week when Jesus was resurrected. Some call it the "Christian Sabbath", but I personally feel that Hebrews dispels that.

[Zguy28]

touche:ols:

When did I tell people they shouldn't believe in it?

I'm VERY tolerant of other's beliefs and choices, I just don't think it's legit to try to get me to believe in what YOU believe in. I pass no judgement, believe in what you want, just don't push it on me, get it?

Why not? If you were truly tolerant you would not have a problem with our belief that we are to witness to you. :2cents:

[techboy]

why do so many of you think sunday is the sabbath???? didnt the bible say that you should hold the 7th day as the sabbath and holy? sunday is the FIRST day of the week and has been since biblical days.

The passage in Hebrews cited earlier in the thread explains it. In many cases, Jesus as the fulfillment of the Law supersedes the need for the ceremonial Law of the Old Testament. Another example is that Christians don't do sacrifices, because Jesus is the ultimate sacrifice (and the previous sacrificial system was a mere shadow and precursor).

and im supposed to blindly follow a religion that cant even practice what it preaches much less practice on the day you are SUPPOSED to.

Please don't follow anything blindly.

I think he was just being nice with the wiki page.

In this case, wikipedia wasn't supporting my arguments, really. I just included the links so people could read more about the particular logical fallacies committed, if they wanted to.

tweedr im not sure about christian buddhists although i dont see why one mind cant entertain 2 thoughts at once.

There's no reason a buddhist can't be a Christian. A Christian, however, cannot be a buddhist, because Christianity is an exclusive religion.

there is a growing opinion among theological scholars that due to star dating there may be 6 years of christ's life that are missing.

It's not that 6 years of Jesus' life are missing, it's that the texts of the New Testament only record Jesus' life and whereabouts for his childhood, then for his ministry in his thirties. Some have taken that gap as an excuse to make all sorts of wild theories about what he might have been doing in between that time.

I've never seen any credible scholar make this claim though, and in point of fact, the "Third Quest", which is the name used for the current stage of serious historical research into the life of Jesus, does exactly the opposite, recognizing and taking into account Jesus' essential Judaism.

touche:ols:

When did I tell people they shouldn't believe in it?

Oh, I don't know... Perhaps it was when you came into a thread about the Christian message and posted a video calling a big part of that religion BS (the title of that Carlin routine)?

Maybe it was when you then said that Carlin was hard to argue with, verifying that you saw a comedy routine as some kind of argument?

Or was it when you called that message "snake oil"?

I pass no judgement

No, of course not.

, believe in what you want, just don't push it on me, get it?

I'm more than happy to leave you alone should you ask, but again, you clicked on the thread. There's pretty much no way a dedicated thread with a descritpive title could be seen as "pushing" anything on anybody.

Now, if Zguy28 had gone into a thread about something else, let's say, and posted a video there, that might have been "pushing" his beliefs on somebody that wasn't looking for them.

Do we know anybody that's done something like that recently?