The Figure Four - ALL Things ECW-WWF-NJPW-TNA-ROH-AEW

[Gallen5862]

Maybe the booker's end up making people want Cena back as a Sixteeen time Champion to get the belt away from Sheamus. The fans may want Lol Cena or super Cena over Sheamus.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Gallen5862

[RVAbrendan]

This is a perfect opportunity for WWE to highlight their Divas roster. In the absence of so many big draws, why not put 2 or 3 divas matches on the card? I mean, Sasha is legit. So is Becky. And Natalya.

 

I'm guessing Vince has final say and isn't about to do that, though. Trips loves the diva's division.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

This is a perfect opportunity for WWE to highlight their Divas roster. In the absence of so many big draws, why not put 2 or 3 divas matches on the card? I mean, Sasha is legit. So is Becky. And Natalya.

 

I'm guessing Vince has final say and isn't about to do that, though. Trips loves the diva's division.

 

Because the fans don't buy it? I've been watching wrestling for 34 years. Women's wrestling actually brought in real eyeballs once. And that involved Wendi Richter who wasn't really any good.

[RVAbrendan]

Because the fans don't buy it? I've been watching wrestling for 34 years. Women's wrestling actually brought in real eyeballs once. And that involved Wendi Richter who wasn't really any good.

 

Have you not seen the Women's Division in NXT over the past year? They're pumping out some INCREDIBLE matches that overshadow many of the guys' matches. I would watch the aforementioned ladies wrestle 10/10 over Kane or Big Slow.

 

 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Yea, and All Japan Women's was putting on the best pro wrestling in the world in the 80s and 90s. It's never translated here.

 

I'm obviously not opposed to women's wrestling or changing the format of the product. I just find it hard to imagine that the solution to their problem is a lot more women's wrestling.

 

NXT is interesting, but it's Ring of Honor with some WWE backing. It's a niche product. ROH ideas on Raw are not exactly going to fly.

 

Actually, it may fly because ROH and NXT fans are the hardest of the hardcore wrestling fans. These are the guys who are going to go watch indie wrestling at a truck stop. And WWE seems to be intent on driving its audience down to these dudes.

 

I actually think women are the key to reviving WWE, but not in the ring. In the audience. If I was running things, I would be looking for the modern day Rick Rude. The oily, overtly sexual dude.

 

Actually, I would probably just sign Rob Gronkowski's brothers and make them my world tag champs: The Bro Brothers. I would get feminists who hated them watching. And I would get Kardashian wannabes who love them. And I would double my ratings.

[pjfootballer]

Call them The Gronks!

[DM72]

For all you old timers, the WWE Network has finally added NWA TV to the vault section.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

RV, it's about time to give up the dream of good women's wrestling on WWE.

They've completely ruined all of those NXT women.

The product is awful. Ratings are in the tank.

[TK]

Very little of '85. Looks like every week of '86 & every other week of '87

[KDawg]

For the first time in a long time, I don't even want to watch RAW. Too long. Too many corny ass angles. Adam Rose shouldn't be allowed near a TV and nothing groundbreaking seems to happen. It's all too bland and predictable.

I'll probably read recaps and watch ppvs and nxt until I have a reason to care.

I wish I had a way to watch Lucha Underground.

[MattFancy]

For the first time in a long time, I don't even want to watch RAW. Too long. Too many corny ass angles. Adam Rose shouldn't be allowed near a TV and nothing groundbreaking seems to happen. It's all too bland and predictable.

I'll probably read recaps and watch ppvs and nxt until I have a reason to care.

I wish I had a way to watch Lucha Underground.

 

Read some recaps this morning. Doesn't sound good.

[Mr. Sinister]

Damn... If KD cant stomach WWE, they might as well shut it all down

[KDawg]

Damn... If KD cant stomach WWE, they might as well shut it all down

Truth is that I haven't watched full episodes in a long time. But I can't even stomach watching partial episodes right now. It's really that bad.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

I got into the habit of falling asleep to old PPVs when I was a little kid. I can't do without it now. I'll pull it up on youtube every night when I'm trying to fall asleep is the only reason I still have any idea what's going on. Haven't liked it in a long time.

[justice98]

They're a mess. Morale must be pretty low in Creative. I'm sure they come up with good ideas that Vince just shoots down and replaces with his own.

[Mr. Sinister]

Ill be honest... I dont think I've watched a single second since like 2013. Im pretty sure Punk was still there, feuding with Daniel Bryan.

Been a long time

[LeesburgSkinFan]

If you are into the more classic stuff the Network has just added the following:

 

Nwa World Championship Wrestling

NWA Champ. Wrestling 11-15-86 – 11/15/1986

NWA Champ. Wrestling 12-14-86 – 12/14/1986

NWA Champ. Wrestling 01-10-87 – 01/10/1987

NWA Champ. Wrestling 03-07-87 – 03/07/1987

NWA Champ. Wrestling 06-01-87 – 06/01/1987

NWA Champ. Wrestling 06-27-87 – 06/27/1987

NWA Champ. Wrestling 07-11-87 – 07/11/1987

NWA Champ. Wrestling 07-15-87 – 07/15/1987

NWA Champ. Wrestling 07-25-87 – 07/25/1987

NWA Champ. Wrestling 08-15-87 – 08/15/1987

NWA Champ. Wrestling 09-19-87 – 09/19/1987

 

Smoky Mountain Wrestling

Smoky Mountain Wrestling 108 – 02/14/1994

Smoky Mountain Wrestling 112 – 03/13/1994

Smoky Mountain Wrestling 114 – 03/27/1994

Smoky Mountain Wrestling 119 – 05/01/1994

Smoky Mountain Wrestling 130 – 07/05/1994

 

Mid South Wrestling

Mid-South 03-30-84 – 03/30/1984

Mid-South 08-04-84 – 08/04/1984

Mid-South 12-01-84 – 12/01/1984

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I assume most people here have seen the Crockett TBS shows, because - if nothing else - those are splattered all over Youtube.

 

But if you've never watched Mid South, you really need to do so. It's kind of funny to hear Vince Russo act like he invented pacing and "everything meaning something" when Bill Watts had mastered that concept 15 years earlier. Some of the stuff will feel dated for sure, but I'm thinking that these shows let you see Jim Duggan when he was a redneck badass fighting for truth, justice and the American way and early Midnight Express, Rock and Roll Express, and Magnum TA stuff.

 

This may always be the era of Ted Dibiase and his loaded black glove, which is such a damn simple gimmick and so easy to get over. Dibiase was pretty much always awesome, but I'm not sure he ever topped his work in Mid South.

 

I'm pretty sure this is way past the JYD/Freebirds era.

 

I think that watching Mid South more than anything proves that you really can't have pro wrestling without kayfabe (and blood!) Those fans believed EVERYTHING, and the heat is off the charts as a result.

 

What I always liked about Mid South is that - except for the episodes where Bill Watts' ego takes over and he makes himself the star - the top angles always seemed to rotate. Duggan could be the top guy one week...Magnum the next .....The Rock and Roll the next...

 

I love Dusty as a booker, but with him - in the end - all roads led to Dusty.

 

To be honest, SMW happed during my wrestling exile days. The little I've seen is interesting, and it might age better. I think the biggest problem there is Cornette never really had a top star. I think the biggest drawing match he ever ran was himself versus an ancient Bob Armstrong.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

They're a mess. Morale must be pretty low in Creative. I'm sure they come up with good ideas that Vince just shoots down and replaces with his own.

Hasnt it pretty much been just the one angle for going on 20 years now? Authority figure tries to keep the baby face from winning. Seems to me that's all they do.

[justice98]

Hasnt it pretty much been just the one angle for going on 20 years now? Authority figure tries to keep the baby face from winning. Seems to me that's all they do.

The late, great Jack Tunney wouldn't stand for this. lol

Edited December 1, 2015 by justice98

[KingGibbs]

It hasn't been the same ever since Punk left.

[justice98]

I assume most people here have seen the Crockett TBS shows, because - if nothing else - those are splattered all over Youtube.

But if you've never watched Mid South, you really need to do so. It's kind of funny to hear Vince Russo act like he invented pacing and "everything meaning something" when Bill Watts had mastered that concept 15 years earlier. Some of the stuff will feel dated for sure, but I'm thinking that these shows let you see Jim Duggan when he was a redneck badass fighting for truth, justice and the American way and early Midnight Express, Rock and Roll Express, and Magnum TA stuff.

This may always be the era of Ted Dibiase and his loaded black glove, which is such a damn simple gimmick and so easy to get over. Dibiase was pretty much always awesome, but I'm not sure he ever topped his work in Mid South.

I'm pretty sure this is way past the JYD/Freebirds era.

I think that watching Mid South more than anything proves that you really can't have pro wrestling without kayfabe (and blood!) Those fans believed EVERYTHING, and the heat is off the charts as a result.

What I always liked about Mid South is that - except for the episodes where Bill Watts' ego takes over and he makes himself the star - the top angles always seemed to rotate. Duggan could be the top guy one week...Magnum the next .....The Rock and Roll the next...

I love Dusty as a booker, but with him - in the end - all roads led to Dusty.

To be honest, SMW happed during my wrestling exile days. The little I've seen is interesting, and it might age better. I think the biggest problem there is Cornette never really had a top star. I think the biggest drawing match he ever ran was himself versus an ancient Bob Armstrong.

Kayfabe was awesome.

[KDawg]

I try to allow for kayfabe... But the promos are so obviously scripted how most people would script these guys that I can't buy it. Even for a second.

I even think some of these news stories are WWE created to cause a stir and never acknowledged for real... Such as this whole thing with Lana having "nuclear" heat. Ya. Okay. Sure.

Let them go off script. Change stuff up. Something.

[TK]

To be honest, SMW happed during my wrestling exile days. The little I've seen is interesting, and it might age better. I think the biggest problem there is Cornette never really had a top star. I think the biggest drawing match he ever ran was himself versus an ancient Bob Armstrong.

Just now seeing SMW since they added like 5 shows to the network. Starting at the beginning where Jericho & Lance Storm sign as The Thrillseekers.

It's pretty obvious though that SMW should have stood for Southern Mullet Wrestling.

I'm almost certain there was an early Kane as Larry Santo? with Chris Candino promo at the beginning of this one.

It started with a match with Dutch Zmentel on commentary. Now there's a Terry Funk vs The Bullet Armstrong match joined in progress for the commissionership of SMW.

One things for sure, Bullet Bob & Cornette were pro wrestling. Seeing this old Cornette promo stuff makes me wish he had evolved his look/character with the times because he knows how to get heat & has always been money on the stick

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

My favorite part of Cornette's podcasts and shoots is where he ****es that Storm and Jericho didn't take care of the ring rats. He's creepy co-host stopped ones of his rants a few weeks ago with "You know that you sound like a pimp, right?"

 

I think you can be successful without kayfabe, but they need to stop breaking the fourth wall all the damn time. You can't teach someone to talk the way Cornette talked (or Heyman currently talks). And you can't script that. But you can get them to believe what they are saying.

 

You'll see this all over the MidSouth stuff - everyone there spoke like they believed every word they said.

 

I haven't listened to much of Cornette's podcast lately, because he seems to have stopped having guests and is just yelling about Republicans for an hour each week (and this is not a deep political thinker). But I wanted to hear his thoughts on the Reid Flair issue. I thought his point was solid.

 

In the old days, if a heel crossed the line, the heat went to the heel. Today, when a heel crosses the line, the heat goes to the company. So, it's not that WWE screwed up, it's that they can't even capitalize on the screw up in any real way.

 

Ted Dibiase's dad "died in the ring" in the wrestling lore; (it was actually a heart attack in the locker room). I don't recall a heel ever going there with him, but if they did, the result would have been some kind of strap match or steel cage match where Ted beats the hell out of the offender and both of them make money.

 

Seriously, watch Mid South right now and check out the heat. Those fans were dead broke Cajuns, but they were going to pay whatever it took to see Jim Cornette get maimed.

 

I think the network is showing WCCW now as well and are showing the shows before and after the Freebirds heel turn. Those Dallas fans weren't looking to murder Michael Hayes after the show, but they would celebrated like New Years Eve if he had dropped dead in the ring.