The offense.... it's Brunell.

[Leonard Washington]

?????? WTF dude. You should just stop now. I'm not agreeing with you there at all, however much you may want that. I'm saying our offensive weapons suck so we should bring in Price. I'm not saying it's all Brunell's fault. I'm saying we need more weapons to give to Brunell, who can't do it all by himself. That is the total opposite of what you're saying.

i think DH is arguing that it doesn't matter who you put in b/c brunell isn't looking for him. brunell seems to be thinking primary guy, dumpoff, throw away or sack fumble. i think DH is also saying the offense isn't that imaginative to take advantage of wr's talents and put instense pressure on the defense.

[Jumbo]

Honestly, I didn't put you in that category because I don't have an impression of you being one way or another as I do with some posters (some whom I do actually like lol)

As for Ramsey's mistake after mistake, well young players do that. McNabb threw a pick directly to the Redskins on the goalline in a time when the Eagles were still in the playoff hunt. Now, he has other issues (aside from injury and choking) but I just don't believe the mistakes were NEARLY as gut wrenching as Brunell's. It's a shame that Ramsey's first reg season action last year was against the top 2 teams in the league (aside from NE who proved out over the longest haul) and against what is apparently the TOP D in the league this year. Who knows what gains or improvements could have been made? We won't know because the chance wasn't given.

I hope for the best, but just like last year, sometimes you see things that make you skeptical. Even when I was admitting I was wrong about Mark, I still said that it was something of an illusion, that his pace would not be maintained for the entire year. I thought we'd still be better than this, but I also blame Gibbs playcalling for some of that. I don't actually think we're 7-6 solely because of Brunell. But as the playcalling got less courageous, it seemed Mark did too. Now there is an unholy synergy there and I don't see it getting much better unless someone sacks up and decides to do differently (even if Mark being in there means certain limitations.)

I hear ya bro. I'm starting to glaze over though. My priority radar is shifting. I'm starting to see only blue and silver blips.

[AzSkinsFan63]

Don't get me wrong... I like the win. That was only the 2nd win I've enjoyed in person (2-6). But it was ugly.. and did nothing to inspire confidence that this team is ready for the playoffs.

The Cards were daring us to pass. And we couldn't. That's why Gibbs started the second half pounding the football. The running game was there since the opening kickoff. That's good coaching I suppose.

But Brunell is seriously hindering our passing game. And without a legitimate pass attack... this team won't sustain any kime of success.

We're hurting in the secondary right now. I didn't know Rogers was hurt... but when I saw Springs in the lockerroom.... he was in BAD shape. When asked how his back was.... he said "Bad" (very seriously). When he was asked how his leg was... he said "Bad" in the same tone. He didn't sound like he was embellishing at all.

You know hw many times the team has been close to putting it all together...

It's like a golf game..you need the long game,short game and putting..

well I've seen flashes of everything from this team but not one whole game yet. Turnovers are the biggest issue and have been from day one...

Get rid of the turnovers and get some, and this team changes pracically overnight.

We should have had 2 more wins...Denver and Tampa....

Man this team is better than it's record..

Yeah Dallas had a good game last week but come on the offense was no better than ours 3 games previously..

I think the team realizes the magnitude of this game..and that the deck will be stacked against them.

The Skins team is SKrappy!!!!!

SKINS are SKRAPPY that's my new Mantra for the SKins!!!!!!

[jrockster21]

Honestly, I didn't put you in that category because I don't have an impression of you being one way or another as I do with some posters (some whom I do actually like lol)

I guess that means I'm firmly placed in that category!

[wilbur58z]

Great post, Die Hard!! I've been saying this for weeks and weeks on end now (going back to last season). The plays are unthinkably sophomoric. I have an uncle who is a defensive assistant for an NFL team and the analysis you offered, Die Hard, is precisely his take. He says he really can't believe just how easy our offense is to decipher and break.

Simplicity isn't the problem. Parcells said Denver's offense is the simplest in the NFL right now. It's about doing what your offense does best.

You've got 50-75 plays per game on offense. You spend those plays doing what you've done well in practice because that's the high percentage thing to do.

If you go out there and be wacky like it's some circus, you risk being worse than what you would have been had you just come out and done the stuff you know you can execute.

[AzSkinsFan63]

Dude, how can I sound scared? This team has no business in the playoffs this year. Not without a legitimate passing attack... due to the QB. And it isn't helping that we have ZERO WR depth.

And now Samuels is dinged up again.... in case you didn't know.

I love the Redskins. 2 weeks ago I was more optimistic than I am today. Odd huh?

When we beat the Rams... I thought we did it in the fashion we did because it was Joe's philosophy to run the ball. His choice in attacking that defense.

Now, after the Cards, I am resigned to the fact that he did it out of necessity.

We don't have a legitimate passing attack. That's going to catch up with us.

Not to much, we're suffering from HUGE injuries now on both sides of the ball.

This doesn't bode well for us. And Dallas is coming off a big win. Parcells is getting ballsy again and playing to "win".... while Gibbs is playing not to lose.

Some things are pretty obvious right now.

You're forgetting Anterell Rolle was back from an injury...I think Arizona's defense is underrated when all the pieces are in place and Denny Green is not a slacker coach I also remember Warner has a SB ring right?

we had 4 turnovers...I guarantee if we do that we have no chance...but that's it!!!!

come on lighten up...

[visionary]

...except the entire offense's numbers have NOT gone down.

In the first 5 games of the season, we scored 83 points.

In the last 5 games of the season, we have scored 106 points.

While our passing game has declined, our running game has gotten much better, we have been winning the field position battle, and we have been putting up more points.

To be fair, in the last five games, one td was from a kick return albiet by an offensive player (though he is not used as one now) and another was from an interception in the Radiers game.

Still your point is a good one.

[IrepDC]

Statistics?! That's the crux of your argument? You want a pat on the shoulder for drudging up statistics to show how eerily similar these teams are.

Here's a few stats:

(1) Statistically, our offense and defense was ranked higher than the Giants when we played them earlier this year. When we both had the same record. We lost 36-0. That's what statistics will get you.

(2) We've lost 14 of the last 16 games against Dallas. And yet, how many of those years did we finish AHEAD of the Dallas Cowboys in the standings? What good are rankings and statistics.

Stats are for the mathematicians to study AFTER the game. They've got nothing to do with anything going into the game.

Ask me about the odds that Miami was going to be the Chargers last weekend!

What are the odds we'd get in a shootout with the Tampa Bay Bucs a month ago?

What were the odds we'd lose to Oakland a few weeks ago... a 4-9 team right now?

You simply cannot discount flea-flicker plays. They are no different than any other play in an offensive arsenal. If executed correctly, is no different than play-action pass (which, essentially, is what the play is). Or a reverse. An offensive play is an offensive play. Richie Anderson's half-back pass for a touchdown to win the game counts.

Unlike a kickoff return... which is simply good fortune. However, it's unfortunate that the Redskins needed some good fortune... to defeat the Phoenix Cardinals.

You know, the team we're statistically better than (on defense and in the win column). You know, playing for our playoff lives and relatively healthy to boot.

And yet, we needed kickoff return for a touchdown.

Who the hell needs an offense? Great Gibbs.... keep calling those kickoff returns for a touchdown. Gets you the "W" every week.

What's wrong with Brunell? He's done. He's hit the wall. Just like every QB does at some point in their career. Happens to... hmmm... every single QB that's ever played the game. Must be shocking to you though huh?

You give a QB enough chances... and he's bound to have a good day. The reality is... in nearly 2 years of starting for the Skins... how many 250+ plus passing days has Brunell had? Ponder that.

I mean, it's not like you're going to see Brunell's leg fall off... and you're going to say "Yup, he's done. He needs to retire now". You think Tim Couch forgot how to throw a football?

At some point, you lose it.

I am confused, you sound like you are upset with JRockster for saying we can beat Dallas. I know you are not a Cowboys fan, but, listen to what you are saying. I don't know what has gotten in to our fans.

What happened to WE WANT DALLAS! Now people in this thread are screaming WE HAVE NO CHANCE AGAINST DALLAS!

I have said this before and I'll say it again, we need to lose this "loser mantality" in Washington. We are coming into this game on a two game winning streak with our running game GREAT and our defense playing SOLID, yet we still go out of our way to point out the struggles in our pass game. Our passing game may not have WON us many games this year but it certainly hasn't LOST any games this year either. We do not live or die by the pass. Our offense is based on RUNNING the football and we are doing that well right now. Dallas hasn't even been playing good against the run as of late. What makes ANYONE think that this game is in Brunell's hands? And, in what game have we gotten behind and Brunell NOT step up(other than Giants)?

All I can say is, again, lose the "loser mindset". We are not nearly as bad as you all are tying to make it seem. We are actually playoff contenders this year. Stop with all the "we have no chance" stuff. It is pitiful, for me as a young fan, to see the grown men giving up so easily.

I don't care what you say, I STILL WANT DALLAS!!!!

Zip-it-up and Zip-it-OUT!

[AzSkinsFan63]

I am confused, you sound like you are upset with JRockster for saying we can beat Dallas. I know you are not a Cowboys fan, but, listen to what you are saying. I don't know what has gotten in to our fans.

What happened to WE WANT DALLAS! Now people in this thread are screaming WE HAVE NO CHANCE AGAINST DALLAS!

I have said this before and I'll say it again, we need to lose this "loser mantality" in Washington. We are coming into this game on a two game winning streak with our running game GREAT and our defense playing SOLID, yet we still go out of our way to point out the struggles in our pass game. Our passing game may not have WON us many games this year but it certainly hasn't LOST any games this year either. We do not live or die by the pass. Our offense is based on RUNNING the football and we are doing that well right now. Dallas hasn't even been playing good against the run as of late. What makes ANYONE think that this game is in Brunell's hands? And, in what game have we gotten behind and Brunell NOT step up(other than Giants)?

All I can say is, again, lose the "loser mindset". We are not nearly as bad as you all are tying to make it seem. We are actually playoff contenders this year. Stop with all the "we have no chance" stuff. It is pitiful, for me as a young fan, to see the grown men giving up so easily.

I don't care what you say, I STILL WANT DALLAS!!!!

Zip-it-up and Zip-it-OUT!

I agree this thread sucks!!!!

[wilbur58z]

i think DH is arguing that it doesn't matter who you put in b/c brunell isn't looking for him. brunell seems to be thinking primary guy, dumpoff, throw away or sack fumble. i think DH is also saying the offense isn't that imaginative to take advantage of wr's talents and put instense pressure on the defense.

Yeah those were his arguments in his original post. But I was responding to his incorporation of my past post on the Price deal. That made no sense at all.

[Gamebreaker]

You're a bad fan

2 questions though.

1- Is it possible you caught Brunell on a bad day, or have you noticed this before?

2. You mention man coverage on go routes, and zone coverage preventing YAC. Which is it?

3 obervations:

1. If teams are indeed keying on go routes, it would seem a comeback is the ideal play call.

2. Gibbs has always had a reputation for extreme simplicity in play design and offense. His genius, at least historically, was timing and setting up opponents with one play over and over, lulling them to sleep, and then changing it up. This is true in the passing game and the running game.

3. I would be weary of making observations about our passing offense after 3 interceptions. If I were coach I would scale things down tremendously, and keep it simple. ESPECIALLY if our run game was churning out yards. Why take risks?

Oh yah... and concerning the Dallas comment... we certainly might lose the game (and we can certainly win it, too), but I'm a little surprised that you of all people would say that we will get crushed. Who has 'crushed' us so far this year? I can think of 1 team.

Who has 'crushed' us at home? Nobody.

Why would Dallas be any different?

Alot of defenses will have the corners man up on the outside, and play a zone for the linebackers and safeties. Since we play alot of the game with 1 or 2 wr sets, this works well againist. Especially if Brunell is only using half of the field and the defense is guessing which half for the majority of the time.

[zoony]

The new guy knows That nice to see.

However, I'd also throw Tony Banks in there.

Gawd... seriously. Have you seen some of the names we've had at QB the past few years?

Jeff George, Tony Banks, Shane Matthews, Danny Weurfel, John Friesz. Disgusting.

Look no further than why we've been scrubbing toilets in the NFL for so long.

Did you see this thread I started?

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128319

if not, curious your thoughts. I take it to the extreme, but 'tis how I feel.

You cannot win without a QB in the salary cap era.

.......

[DieselPwr44]

I never said LaVar would never play another down for us...

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121113&page=3&pp=40&highlight=lavar+arrington

LaVar isn't going to be a Redskin much longer...these columns and threads are a waste of key strokes.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120975&highlight=lavar+arrington

LaVar is gone...when will the press and posters here figure that out?

At this point, it's irrelevant as to how he can help our team...he's not really part of the team anymore.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120969&highlight=lavar+arrington

Post after post from you about LaVar being the solution. Figure it out. LA is gone. Not gonna play for the Redskins anymore.

LaVar isn't going to play for the Redskins any longer, barring an injury...the decision has been made. And the louder that the press or fans get, the more likely LA becomes inactive...and then cut.

[a_good_brotha]

And came through.. all these negative posters.. if a boxer gets pounded for 12 rounds and wins by KO.. he's won. If a baseball team goes 9 innings, and wins it in the bottom of the 9th.. they've won. The same goes for football. You'll seem way to sensitive, pointing out all the flaws.. Why not see something positive, seeing the team unite, and pulling for them the crush Dallas..

And Brunell threw two amazing passes.. if he'd done it in the first quarter, second, third, earlier in the fourth.. it doesn't make a bit of difference! We're 7-6, with a chance to get into the playoffs.. and too many of you ponder the what if's.. woulda coulda shoulda crap.. no team is flawless.. no player has great games every week.. But these guys have won 7..

Lets make Dallas number 8

I'd like to add something to this. Brunell hit Moss in stride both times, something Ramsey never shown he could do. All he did was either overthrow or underthrow his receivers. And he had all the time in the world.

I'm tired of all the Brunell bashing. He's not the greatest QB in the world, but don't say he's the worst to ever wear a Redskin uniform. There's no way you can say he's worse than players like Jeff George, Tony Banks, Heath Schuler, Cary Conklin, Shane Matthews, Danny Wuerffel, Babe Lauffenberg, and others. We have had some terrible QB's. Brunell is nowhere near the worst.

[Chachie]

Wow.......

Wow......

I.... I'm completely stunned.

I have never once in my time on this board read a post like that from someone so high on the extremeskins totem pole. I don't in any way doubt Die hard's analysis but to read that last statment in his first post of the thread was....... mind-blowing.

DH- You gotta stop looking into the bowl while going to the bathroom. Your B&Gs fell in and if you lose yours, what are the rest of us supposed to do?

I'm the biggest Dallas-fearing sissy on this board but as long as our defense holds them within 10 for most of this game, we have a shot. I actually suspect it to be alot like the last game and we probably won't get so lucky this time. However, with the homecrowd and the confidence of a better season, we may not need luck.

I can only hope the offensive coaches read your posts, because the Tuna surely already knows what you noticed.

Good post. BAD timing.

[Die Hard]

Yeah those were his arguments in his original post. But I was responding to his incorporation of my past post on the Price deal. That made no sense at all.

No, you specifically made mention that Bugel said our passing offense was SO SIMPLISTIC it can be learned in 5 minutes.

That was your post. It had nothing to do with your followup in this post attempting to rationalize that exact statement into meaning.... "Brunell needs more weapons... so we should sign Price".

Could we use Price? Maybe next year.

But your rationale was to sign him THIS year... because he COULD make an impact THIS year.... because our passing offense is so simplistic. As you mention was stated by Bugel.

Now go back and read the very first post in this thread.... and look for (2). It's exactly what I said.

I know it sucks to realize it.

The fact is, you can bash me all you want... but I'm consistent. All the way through the past 5 years.

[jrockster21]

Wow.......

Wow......

I.... I'm completely stunned.

I have never once in my time on this board read a post like that from someone so high on the extremeskins totem pole. I don't in any way doubt Die hard's analysis but to read that last statment in his first post of the thread was....... mind-blowing.

DH- You gotta stop looking into the bowl while going to the bathroom. Your B&Gs fell in and if you lose yours, what are the rest of us supposed to do?

I'm the biggest Dallas-fearing sissy on this board but as long as our defense holds them within 10 for most of this game, we have a shot. I actually suspect it to be alot like the last game and we probably won't get so lucky this time. However, with the homecrowd and the confidence of a better season, we may not need luck.

I can only hope the offensive coaches read your posts, because the Tuna surely already knows what you noticed.

Good post. BAD timing.

Alright...I'm pretty sick of people calling the Dallas game luck...leave that for the Dallas trolls and the haters. Dallas was far from luck. Wasn't seeing the improvement in the passing game continue on enough proof? Besides, I can't see how two perfectly thrown/played balls are luck. I just can't see it. Is it luck every time Peyton gets single coverage on Harrison and goes deep to him? Of course not...its execution. If anything, its "luck" that Dallas' defense was stupid enough to let us do it twice...other than that, it was far from luck. :mad:

[zoony]

Alright...I'm pretty sick of people calling the Dallas game luck...leave that for the Dallas trolls and the haters. Dallas was far from luck. Wasn't seeing the improvement in the passing game continue on enough proof? Besides, I can't see how two perfectly thrown/played balls are luck. I just can't see it. Is it luck every time Peyton gets single coverage on Harrison and goes deep to him? Of course not...its execution. If anything, its "luck" that Dallas' defense was stupid enough to let us do it twice...other than that, it was far from luck. :mad:

Agreed.

Luck is where preparation meets opportunity. Always has been, always will be.

[Die Hard]

I am confused, you sound like you are upset with JRockster for saying we can beat Dallas. I know you are not a Cowboys fan, but, listen to what you are saying. I don't know what has gotten in to our fans.

What happened to WE WANT DALLAS! Now people in this thread are screaming WE HAVE NO CHANCE AGAINST DALLAS!

I have said this before and I'll say it again, we need to lose this "loser mantality" in Washington. We are coming into this game on a two game winning streak with our running game GREAT and our defense playing SOLID, yet we still go out of our way to point out the struggles in our pass game. Our passing game may not have WON us many games this year but it certainly hasn't LOST any games this year either. We do not live or die by the pass. Our offense is based on RUNNING the football and we are doing that well right now. Dallas hasn't even been playing good against the run as of late. What makes ANYONE think that this game is in Brunell's hands? And, in what game have we gotten behind and Brunell NOT step up(other than Giants)?

All I can say is, again, lose the "loser mindset". We are not nearly as bad as you all are tying to make it seem. We are actually playoff contenders this year. Stop with all the "we have no chance" stuff. It is pitiful, for me as a young fan, to see the grown men giving up so easily.

I don't care what you say, I STILL WANT DALLAS!!!!

Zip-it-up and Zip-it-OUT!

Why would I be upset with anyone believing the Skins can win this Sunday? Seriously, what the hell do I care? I hope the Redskins do.

But anybody can go to a park and watch a highschool football game... and tell which team can run the ball, which team can pass the ball... and which team is the better team.

It isn't rocket science.

The fact is, it's made difficult to see by some because you have a vested interest in the team. Oddly, I probably have more vested in this team than anyone responding in this thread.

And what I've seen this year is an offense incapable of an efficient passing attack. As a result, they will struggle against better teams.

Heck, this team has struggled against the Cards and Raiders. I don't view the Rams and Cards game - even though they are victories - as solid wins.

In fact, the Rams were missing virtually their entire secondary... it was composed nearly of all rookies. And yet, even though we were committed to the run from the get-go... our passing game was basically nullified. Except of course for Moss' great 40+yard acrobatic catch between 2 defenders.

You know Adrian Wilson didn't have a single INT all year until this Sunday right?

Going into the last 5 games... I was among the most hopeful. And even though we won the last 2 games.... I'm not nearly as hopeful as I was to start.

[skin/m/all]

(i agree) lets see what campbell can do for us. lets start thinking about our furture, and get him some playing time this year so we can see what might need too be done in the off season

[Bonez3]

Dallas doesn't have a run game.

[DjTj]

Why would I be upset with anyone believing the Skins can win this Sunday? Seriously, what the hell do I care? I hope the Redskins do.

But anybody can go to a park and watch a highschool football game... and tell which team can run the ball, which team can pass the ball... and which team is the better team.

It isn't rocket science.

The fact is, it's made difficult to see by some because you have a vested interest in the team. Oddly, I probably have more vested in this team than anyone responding in this thread.

And what I've seen this year is an offense incapable of an efficient passing attack. As a result, they will struggle against better teams.

Heck, this team has struggled against the Cards and Raiders. I don't view the Rams and Cards game - even though they are victories - as solid wins.

In fact, the Rams were missing virtually their entire secondary... it was composed nearly of all rookies. And yet, even though we were committed to the run from the get-go... our passing game was basically nullified. Except of course for Moss' great 40+yard acrobatic catch between 2 defenders.

You know Adrian Wilson didn't have a single INT all year until this Sunday right?

Going into the last 5 games... I was among the most hopeful. And even though we won the last 2 games.... I'm not nearly as hopeful as I was to start.

Die Hard, one thing people tend to overlook in this thread is that Dallas is not exactly the greatest team in the NFL. I think that's partly why people are taking issue with your proclamation that we will get "killed."

They too lost to Oakland earlier in the season, and they only put up 13 points. They had to rally from a 12-point deficit to beat San Francisco. They struggled against Detroit a few weeks ago, in a game where Drew Bledsoe only threw for 110yds. They only scored 10 points against the Giants two weeks ago. We know Mark Brunell has thrown 5 interceptions in the past 5 weeks, but guess what, so has Drew Bledsoe.

The Cowboys looked pretty good pulling out a win against Kansas City, but they've only won 2 road games all year, and both came right down to the wire.

The Redskins might not look like world beaters right now, but we don't need to beat the world. We just need to beat the Cowboys. And lucky for us...

:dallasuck

[Chachie]

Alright...I'm pretty sick of people calling the Dallas game luck...leave that for the Dallas trolls and the haters. Dallas was far from luck. Wasn't seeing the improvement in the passing game continue on enough proof? Besides, I can't see how two perfectly thrown/played balls are luck. I just can't see it. Is it luck every time Peyton gets single coverage on Harrison and goes deep to him? Of course not...its execution. If anything, its "luck" that Dallas' defense was stupid enough to let us do it twice...other than that, it was far from luck. :mad:

I should stop using that word. I think it just comes out because on that Monday night, after those 56 minutes of unadulterated HELL, I felt.... lucky.

I'm not saying that we'd be "lucky" to win against the Cowboys, I just mean that if we get beat up this sunday like we did for those 56 minutes in Texas Stadium on MNF, we're not gonna win it with 2 passes to Santana Moss.

[RIDETHEWALRUS]

Neither ball was underthrown -- the first ball was inaccurate, and Moss went about 5-10 yards across the field to catch it. The second ball was perfectly thrown; I didn't see Moss slow down at all. Not to mention the perfect throw to Moss down the sideline on a Brunell scramble....that might have been the sweetest play of the game.

I was wrong about the first ball. It was dropped in the right spot though Santana did have to cut across to get it.

Go to redskins.com's film room to rewatch the 2nd TD pass. Pay attention to Moss's legs as he catches the 2nd TD. He catches the ball reaching backwards on to his hip. You will see his legs were churning before he saw the ball, and his strides shortened and slowed once he saw the ball was coming. His legs tell the story of a man slowing down to catch an underthrown pass. He could have caught that ball 5 yds further downfield if he had kept accelerating like he was initially.

I'd like to add something to this. Brunell hit Moss in stride both times, something Ramsey never shown he could do. All he did was either overthrow or underthrow his receivers. And he had all the time in the world.

I'm tired of all the Brunell bashing. He's not the greatest QB in the world, but don't say he's the worst to ever wear a Redskin uniform. There's no way you can say he's worse than players like Jeff George, Tony Banks, Heath Schuler, Cary Conklin, Shane Matthews, Danny Wuerffel, Babe Lauffenberg, and others. We have had some terrible QB's. Brunell is nowhere near the worst.

Do you remember Brunell last year? Last year he may have been the worst I have ever seen in a Redskin uni (though I am young). These past few weeks he is resembling the MB of 2004. I will take just about anyone over MB 2004 model.:dallasuck :gaintsuck :eaglesuck

[Leonard Washington]

what is the deal with the rationlization of saying another team sucks makes us better?

if that's the rationale, dallas fans can be doing the same thing against us. at least they scored on the giants.