The offense.... it's Brunell.

[JimmiJo]

You haven't read his earlier posts in this thread. Put it this way.... when JBooma sides with you... you know you've got problems.

Die Hard, are you still at it? I left you in the same conversation last night this time

Just kidding. Hey, you all should read the P. Ramsey article coming out in today's Wash Times. I have a snippet in queue over in breaking news that is sure to liven up this thread, although after 29 pages I'm not sure we need to.

[JimmiJo]

Hear this partner,

I believe this crossed a line. If it's about an opinion on football, than disregard this. I could care less.

If you're making an insinuation on my character, blatant or indirectly, well that is unacceptable to me.

I would like you to clarify what you meant by that remark. You can do it on this thread, IM me, or call me personally collect, but you better explain that.

I disagreed with your take in this thread. I didn't know you were a 'mod' or whatever. I really don't care. I used aggressive language at times, but I kept it in the realm of football and Washington Redskins. I don't ever make anything 'personal' in the Stadium.

I vehemently disagree at times, but this seems much more. Please explain.

Hey Bonez3, maybe you should lighten up a bit huh? I've been with this thread about the whole way and you have been much more agressive then Die Hard. Relax man, no one is out to get you.

[Destino]

Yup. Boy those charts make it clear that Brunnel's deteriorated. Yup. It was a mistake ever starting him. Case closed. Seriously. We'd have been much better with Ramsey all along. No doubt, it's a given. Yup. Boy what a waste this has been. Yup. All those posts all this time from people who liked Brunell or defended Gibbs' choice were wrong too. Yup. Look at those charts again. I hope we win but we don't have a chance. Yup. It's over. Yup. Brunell has killed us. Finally really dead. Yup.

Ok. Now what?

I know! Let's discuss the drafts picks we gave away (for the next QB problem) that we could have used to get a pass-rushing DE no doubt who would have got us into the play-offs for sure this year (which ended today)...if it hadn't been for Brunell of course. Yup.

What? It's Dallas week? Is that supposed to still matter? I don't want to be distracted from further also more again too still proving Brunell's awful, was a mistake, and that the season's over.

The charts were good work though Ghost, really.

I hate to be the one to tell you this but you are on a discussion board. Common practice on such an internet site is to discuss things, in this case redskin related items. One of those items has been the lack of offense. The obvious question is "what is the problem" and as the season has gone on more information has made itself available for review. That information was posted in a thread that argues Mark Brunell is the problem.

If this bothers you be more selective with the threads you choose to read. What's that, you didn't know you can click on threads of your choosing? Yup you can.

Have fun.

[Destino]

Die Hard kicked my dog.

[JimmiJo]

You know Ramsey actually had a better year last year than Brunell right?

Now this year, in the same offense with nearly all the same players.... Ramsey isn't as capable?

No he is not.

[JimmiJo]

Die Hard kicked my dog.

Die Hard drank all the milk and put the jug back in the fridge empty.

[Bonez3]

Hey Bonez3, maybe you should lighten up a bit huh? I've been with this thread about the whole way and you have been much more agressive then Die Hard. Relax man, no one is out to get you.

I agree, I got off to a bad start. But, I was fine and almost had closure until the last comment. It just crossed the line for me and I couldn't not respond.

[Die Hard]

Hear this partner,

I believe this crossed a line. If it's about an opinion on football, than disregard this. I could care less.

If you're making an insinuation on my character, blatant or indirectly, well that is unacceptable to me.

I would like you to clarify what you meant by that remark. You can do it on this thread, IM me, or call me personally collect, but you better explain that.

I disagreed with your take in this thread. I didn't know you were a 'mod' or whatever. I really don't care. I used aggressive language at times, but I kept it in the realm of football and Washington Redskins. I don't ever make anything 'personal' in the Stadium.

I vehemently disagree at times, but this seems much more. Please explain.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1936836&postcount=37

This F****** thread sucks.

1) Die Hard with as much respect as you wamt on the internet. What do you know. You question route design... Right whatever.

(2) STOP F****** TRYING TO MAKE POINTS LIKE YOUR ANALYSIS OUR INSIGHT MIGHT HELP.

This site is starting to make me sick.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1936843&postcount=42

F****** PATHETIC.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1936846&postcount=43

Originally Posted by Die Hard

I'm not scared I'm just a fan. I have nothing to lose. I've learned a lot this year by coaching youth football.

You wrote:

My bad, now I see where your wisdom sprouts from. I may need to retract statements...

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1936915&postcount=76

Dude- do they even have youth football in Canada or do you mean soccer?

------------------------

I didn't know the part attacking my football coaching experience and the country that I live in related to the Washington Redskins.

You are what you are. You made your bed. Now you can sleep in your trash bin.

[Ghost of]

[JimmiJo]

I agree, I got off to a bad start. But, I was fine and almost had closure until the last comment. It just crossed the line for me and I couldn't not respond.

I hear you but let's remember we are rooting for the same team. I too disagreed with the conclusion of the initial post, but cannot fault the reasoning behind it - he makes very good points. If we keep it in the realm of ideas we can have debate and discourse.

It is all good.

[Die Hard]

Die Hard kicked my dog.

Die Hard drank all the milk and put the jug back in the fridge empty.

I'd laugh if I had the time... but I have to go into the admin panel and add "baby" and "drama queen" to our censors.

[SkinsFTW]

Thanks....I've posted that several times in this thread. Whoever wants it more will win this game, throw everything else out.

And it doesn't even matter who is better, what the records are. This is REDSKINS v. COWBOYS. Just look at the 1991 Skins...14-2, eventual superbowl champs. The 1991 Cowgirls were 1-15, NFC East cellar dwellers and league laughing-stock. Who did that win come against again?

Except the Cowboys were 11-5 in 1991. The season you are thinking about was 1989. The Redskins finished 10-6 and missed the playoffs. They were 4-5 after losing to Dallas and ended up winning the last 5 games of the season to finish 10-6.

[Bonez3]

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1936836&postcount=37

This F****** thread sucks.

1) Die Hard with as much respect as you wamt on the internet. What do you know. You question route design... Right whatever.

(2) STOP F****** TRYING TO MAKE POINTS LIKE YOUR ANALYSIS OUR INSIGHT MIGHT HELP.

This site is starting to make me sick.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1936843&postcount=42

F****** PATHETIC.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1936846&postcount=43

Originally Posted by Die Hard

I'm not scared I'm just a fan. I have nothing to lose. I've learned a lot this year by coaching youth football.

You wrote:

My bad, now I see where your wisdom sprouts from. I may need to retract statements...

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1936915&postcount=76

Dude- do they even have youth football in Canada or do you mean soccer?

------------------------

I didn't know the part attacking my football coaching experience and the country that I live in related to the Washington Redskins.

You are what you are. You made your bed. Now you can sleep in your trash bin.

Aside from one letter not being *'ed, that's all good, right? Strongly worded, but all good?

I was in no position to be at the keyboard at the time (not substanced induced or anything). I ask that you respect this comment, that's all. I tried to come here to relax. Didn't work out when I opened this thread.

The comment on your coaching, well, that's football related. Don't take it personal. It truly is football related. Plus, it was funny as **** than and now, so be mad but obviously I was jabbing you. I felt you set yourself up. Look, I can laugh at myself too.

That's all, but I don't understand your comment on my company. Strongly worded too, don't ya think?

[Bonez3]

I'd laugh if I had the time... but I have to go into the admin panel and add "baby" and "drama queen" to our censors.

DH,

were you refering to me with the "baby"?

Just curious,

Pomona, CA

[DjTj]

Okay, I'm going to try to throw some stats at this question ... and it doesn't look pretty.

We all know that Brunell is having a much better year this year than he did last year:

Brunell 2004: 118/237 49.8% 1194yds 7td 6int 63.9rating 3wins

Brunell 2005: 234/398 58.8% 2634yds 16td 8int 83.7rating 7wins

However, we feel like Brunell has been much worse lately, so let's compare statistics from the last 7 games (since the loss to the Giants) with the 7 complete games Brunell played last year (throwing out the Giants game and Bengals games where Ramsey played most of the second half):

Brunell 2004 (complete games): 107/211 50.7% 1096yds 6td 4int 67.6rating 3wins

Brunell 2005 (last 7 games): 118/200 59.0% 1142yds 4td 6int 69.2rating 3wins

...those numbers look eerily similar. And if you think that's disturbing, let's look at Laveranues Coles and Santana Moss over those same games:

Coles 2004 (Brunell games): 33rec 398yds 12.1ypc 1td

Moss 2005 (last 7 games): 35rec 424yds 12.1ypc 1td

Now, THAT's disturbing ... Our passing game was certainly better in the first half of the year, but since the Giants game it has been EXACTLY like last year.

Let me add something for the Patrick Ramsey fans, since coincidentally he also played in 7 complete games in 2004:

Ramsey 2004 (complete games): 142/217 65.4% 1313yds 8td 6int 82.6rating 3wins

Coles 2004 (Ramsey games): 42rec 378yds 9.0ypc 0tds

Ramsey definitely put up better stats than Brunell, but it certainly didn't help Coles out very much ... and obviously Gibbs doesn't think he's the answer. Let's hope the running game can carry us the rest of the way, and let's start preparing for the Jason Campbell era.

[jrockster21]

You haven't read his earlier posts in this thread. Put it this way.... when JBooma sides with you... you know you've got problems.

I don't see what jbooma has anything to do with it, but I was agreeing with the fact that Dallas will not "kill" us, whoop us, beat up on us, etc. I was agreeing with the point that Bonez elegantly made (regardless of whatever else he posted) that the Dallas game is up in the air. Oh, and guess what, DH, I'm not the only one!

You say I have problems, eh??

So I guess you say the same thing about Tarhog:

Any given Sunday my friends. You're talking about 2 flawed teams. Dallas has looked just as wretched as we have at times this season. The team that wants it more wins.

Its that simple.

Chachie as well:

I'm the biggest Dallas-fearing sissy on this board but as long as our defense holds them within 10 for most of this game, we have a shot. I actually suspect it to be alot like the last game and we probably won't get so lucky this time. However, with the homecrowd and the confidence of a better season, we may not need luck.

Don't forget DjTj:

Die Hard, one thing people tend to overlook in this thread is that Dallas is not exactly the greatest team in the NFL. I think that's partly why people are taking issue with your proclamation that we will get "killed."

They too lost to Oakland earlier in the season, and they only put up 13 points. They had to rally from a 12-point deficit to beat San Francisco. They struggled against Detroit a few weeks ago, in a game where Drew Bledsoe only threw for 110yds. They only scored 10 points against the Giants two weeks ago. We know Mark Brunell has thrown 5 interceptions in the past 5 weeks, but guess what, so has Drew Bledsoe.

The Cowboys looked pretty good pulling out a win against Kansas City, but they've only won 2 road games all year, and both came right down to the wire.

The Redskins might not look like world beaters right now, but we don't need to beat the world. We just need to beat the Cowboys. And lucky for us...:dallasuck

jonasc311:

Brunell was bad but this doesnt mean the Cowboys will kill us. People have been saying Brunell is done for years, he's hit the wall, etc., etc., etc. They still got stop Portis and figure out how to get by #21.

Don't forget Om:

I also think Sunday's going to be tough, for the very reasons Tony stated. The passing game is a real concern, as are the injuries to a whole lot of guys we really can't afford to lose and the fact that Parcells ain't no dummy and knows the Skins every bit as well as we think we do.

I'd just stop way short of the "crushed" thing. We could well come up short ... or on the other hand, we could surprise a lot of people and ride the crowd and our strengths to a tough win.

Either way, I'm pretty sure Dallas will know they've been in a football game.

Cool Hand Loki thinks we have a shot:

As far as Dallas goes, I would look for the three 'U' boys to step it up. Taylor, Portis, and Moss are going to have to shoulder the load if the Redskins are to have a chance in this one. I know you could say that about almost any game this year, but with all the injuries on D and the recent ineffectiveness of Brunell, I think those three players will have to make the difference.

While bobzmuda thinks Dallas will win, he thinks it will be a defensive struggle, not a "killing":

Dallas did control the first game as it was able to stop the run and pressure the QB. I don't see how much as changed there. I do think the Redskins will be better off defensively though as the Cowboys are really hurting over the loss of Adams and the play of Tucker and Pettiti (sic). I just can't see Gibbs trying to open anything up or taking any shots to go up more than a score. As a result, I think it will be a defensive struggle that will eventually go the Cowboys way because of their ability (and more importantly willingness) to throw the ball down the field.

kleese, who ain't so bad with the game-calling, also agrees that we will not be "killed"

8. Having said all that, I'd be STUNNED if Dallas whips us this weekend. I am definitely worried about our CB's and if Rogers AND Springs are out, I really couldn't pick us to win. But we've played close games all year long with one exception (Giants). I do not see Dallas coming in and pasting us with all the emotion (and confidence) that will be on our side. I think it will be close in the 4th quarter, and my gut tells me we come up just a bit short, but I think you're wrong to think this will be a mis-match.

Oldfan ( :doh: -- can't believe I'm agreeing with him...) agrees:

There's still hope. Besides, the Cowboys aren't without their problems either.

Nibbs isn't convinced we'll lose:

Oddly enough, I'm not convinced. Bears show that you can win without a great passing game. Depends on how the other elements come together.

visionary doesn't think we should simply assume Dallas will beat us up:

I agree that it looks like Dallas may beat us up, but we shouldn't just be assuming that they will. Who would have thought that we would beat the Vikings last year with a banged up and depleted secondary and nothing to play for, while they were playing for their division title? (I think they were...anyway)

SkinsGuy thinks we'll win:

I only hope that when the Redskins win this Sunday (and we DEFINITELY WILL win), that you put up another post stating how wrong you were about the Dallas game and for underestimating Gibbs.

Add PCRoughrider to the growing list of people who "have problems":

Dallas has beaten us over the past decade plus with far more problems than we currently have.

Not only do we have a chance, we will win this game, regardless of who's injured or who some fans think is playing poorly.

dadyjr as well:

Yes we are dinged up but our injuries have not been killing us throughout the year. Heck we have started all five OLinemen every game this year.

The Cowboys have injuries as well and they are a team that is prone to mistakes and has just one big play threat.

We are at home and the crowd will be ridiculous. If everyone were to say it's gonna be impossible to run the table it's understandable.....I don't agree but it will be a very very tough task.

But with all of this doom and gloom I think those with a negative outlook of this game must remember that Dallas is not an elite team.

JimmiJo thinks we'll win:

You sound scared to me. This game is epic, and I'm not in pretend land, I know we have challenges. But this year has been built on challenges, and yet we are still hanging around. I've no doubt we can beat Dallas. The only question I have is which Redskin team will show up? The one in St. Louis? The one in the second half of the Cardinal game? Or the one in the Giants game?

...

I agree totally. But I think we can win this thing. I don't fear them, and I think they are over-rated.

I know Springs is hurt, and it seems like from I hear he is the one they are most worried about. But this is what happens up here (note: Joe Gibbs-ism) and they have to find a way to win.

Don't leave out zoony!

Oh yah... and concerning the Dallas comment... we certainly might lose the game (and we can certainly win it, too), but I'm a little surprised that you of all people would say that we will get crushed. Who has 'crushed' us so far this year? I can think of 1 team.

Who has 'crushed' us at home? Nobody.

Why would Dallas be any different?

And that is just from this thread...I'm sure we could start a thread with this question as a poll, and you would find that there are many more on this board who agree with US.

[SkinsFTW]

No he is not.

Yes he is.

Brunell does a lot of things wrong considering he has been a QB in this league for over a decade. It seems like he would have gotten over the fumbling and running around scared by now. He should also be past the locking onto 1 receiver and checking down to the TE on every passing play. Even Ramsey with his small amount of experience at least got the ball into other players hands regularly.

Running around might have worked when he could actually run but at this point he isn't running away from anybody that isn't being blocked. He is like an older version of Mc Nabb who never learned to use the pocket, with a weaker arm and pads his stats by throwing the ball away instead of getting it to wide open receivers that he knows he can't get the ball to accurately.

In a perfect offense he could be very effective but this offense has flaws like most and Brunell isn't going to make up for any of them.

[jrockster21]

I'd laugh if I had the time... but I have to go into the admin panel and add "baby" and "drama queen" to our censors.

DH,

were you refering to me with the "baby"?

Just curious,

Pomona, CA

No, that was meant as a subtle jab at me, as he has called me both of them in this thread and his other thread. He is under the false impression that I care what he has to say about me. He is also under the false impression that a good way to win football arguments is to call people names and insult their character. Funny how he can't handle a few expletives but has no problem flipping out over my two posts which were 7 hours apart.

The real way to win football discussions is to be as ambiguous as possible, i.e. "we're gonna get killed by Dallas, but we can get killed and still win." That way, you win "the Man" contest every year because you're always right! Then people have to listen to you.

[Jumbo]

I hate to be the one to tell you this but you are on a discussion board. Common practice on such an internet site is to discuss things, in this case redskin related items. One of those items has been the lack of offense. The obvious question is "what is the problem" and as the season has gone on more information has made itself available for review. That information was posted in a thread that argues Mark Brunell is the problem.

If this bothers you be more selective with the threads you choose to read. What's that, you didn't know you can click on threads of your choosing? Yup you can.

Have fun.

Hey, I just felt like doing that and was venting little and it was fun . I don't disagree with some of the Brunnel criticisms or many of the other points made if you've been reading. You should also note my little trip wasn't aimed at you personally. It was just a convenient and appropriate place to post what I did when the mood struck me, and you'll notice I didn't address your comments, but just a depressed theme in general.

Since we're here, take your own words ver batim and heed them. This stuff you've responded with though is some real brain work. Thanks for the tour, and save your instructions.

[SkinsFTW]

Ramsey definitely put up better stats than Brunell, but it certainly didn't help Coles out very much ... and obviously Gibbs doesn't think he's the answer. Let's hope the running game can carry us the rest of the way, and let's start preparing for the Jason Campbell era.

The reason he didn't help out Coles is the exact reason this thread was started in the first place.

Ramsey gets the ball to all of his options much more than Brunell. Cooley started looking like an all pro once Ramsey got on the field and Thrash and Gardner and Portis started having bigger games as well.

The offense immediately got better with Ramsey even though he hadn't been getting reps in practice and he was facing the tougher part of the schedule.

[Awesome]

After the 49ers game, I took back every bad thing I'd ever said about Mark Brunell. On Sunday against the Cards, I took that back. Sad thing is, Gibbs won't pull him, ever.

Think about the leash he got last year for doing nothing. Now, with moderate success, Brunell has earned himself till the end of 2006. And Ramsey will be gone, maybe with the Cards. Throwing to Boldin and Fitzgerald and the five other receivers they have who are 6'2", 220.

Not that there's any pressure or anything, but Jason Campbell better make good. I know that sucks to put that on him, but with this team's cap for the next few eyars, our window ain't getting any bigger in the next three years, which means that, through fits and starts, this team has sucked for 15 years as the Giants and Eagles and Cowboys have cycled through the good and bad at least THRICE. Pathetic.

Not to get angry, but RATS! The talent of this team, the latent freakin talent. To think about Ramsey with max-protect and Portis...RUNNING the ball...ugh...I think it coulda been folks, but GOD knows why, Gibbs just doesn't have it for the guy.

err...

[seed420]

Fugg that brunell is a leader and personally I am sooo happy Ramsey is out of there. Greater things are already happening.

[JimmiJo]

Yes he is.

Brunell does a lot of things wrong considering he has been a QB in this league for over a decade. It seems like he would have gotten over the fumbling and running around scared by now. He should also be past the locking onto 1 receiver and checking down to the TE on every passing play. Even Ramsey with his small amount of experience at least got the ball into other players hands regularly.

Running around might have worked when he could actually run but at this point he isn't running away from anybody that isn't being blocked. He is like an older version of Mc Nabb who never learned to use the pocket, with a weaker arm and pads his stats by throwing the ball away instead of getting it to wide open receivers that he knows he can't get the ball to accurately.

In a perfect offense he could be very effective but this offense has flaws like most and Brunell isn't going to make up for any of them.

Ramsey has never done anything of consequence in the NFL. He has never consistently led this team anywhere.

Brunell beat the Cowboys and nobody thought that would/could happen when he did it. Brunell has been to pro-bowls. Brunell is smart with the ball as a rule. Brunell took a team to the conference championship. Ramey has done nothing of the sort, he has never done what Brunell is doing as we speak, guide a team within playoff contention. Not a certaintly that we are going, but we are vying for it. PR has never done that.

[JimmiJo]

Good night all! I'm sure this thread will still be going tomorrow (troublemaking DH )

[MeNoRevs]

I thinks this thread deserves a TOTY

THREAD OF THE YEAR!