Rewatched Highlights from Last season, what stood out

[skinsOLfan]

Kirk also threw many ints in the shadow of or own goal line, two inone og the games against the Giants to the same defender no less, one against Philly and I believe one against the Vikings. Read'em and weep, Kirk Cousins is a JAG. Alex will be way better in my opinion, but judge for yourself.

 

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Getting a bit tired of the Kirk bashing. This team went from perennial doormat to playoff contenders as soon as he took over as the starting QB and that's no coincidence.   He has put up multiple top 10 seasons with no running game what so ever and a terrible receiving corp last season. That is extremely difficult to do.  I think they made the best of a bad situation and Smith may be a slight upgrade but let's not pretend we just moved on from Tyrod Taylor here 

[skinsOLfan]

I'm tired of folks here acting as if Kirk was a franchise QB, he has a losing record as a starter, losing record against the NFC East, Losing record against Cowboys, never won a playoff game. 9-7, 8-7-1, 7-9 as the full time starter the last 3 years, regression each year he was a starter, meh!

[Darrell Green Fan]

And was was the record of the other QBs starting games for the Redskins during the Snyder era?  

 

Why don't you get that? Nobody is claiming he is Aaron Rodgers but by most every measuring stick he is in fact a lower tier franchise QB. To put up those kind of numbers for a team with this many problems over the years, and with no running game, an OL riddled by injuries (most every pick on that clip was forced by pressure) and with something called Terrell Pryor at WR, was really impressive.  

[Morneblade]

I'm just going to put this here for anyone interested. *Hint, if you're and Alex Smith fan, you probably do not want to click on it.

https://www.hogshaven.com/2018/2/10/16993120/skins-stats-a-statistical-review-of-the-alex-smith-trade

[skinny21]

I’m with the a author - bad trade (for multiple reasons), but I’m rooting for Smith and the Skins to produce a good season for us.  

 

The real shame of it for me is the risk to our stability - both coaches/players.  FO (Allen) should shoulder the blame.   

[skinsOLfan]

The only stat that matters is wins and losses I don't care how many yards the QB throws for or the RB runs for or the WR has none of it matters if you lose more than you win, period.

Why don't you get it?????????? Why the excuses for Cousins bad throws????

[Playaction2Sanders]

On 6/27/2018 at 10:27 AM, suresign said:

All I can remember is Kirk Cousins very last pass attempt as a Redskin was an interception... Good Bye and Good Riddance!!!  Looking so forward to having and watching one of the most underrated QB's in the league in Alex Smith light up the NFC for us this year.

 

 

I don't think that's fair to rag on Kirk like that, I mean its your right but dude was nothing but class while he was here. Being the solid teammate he was during RG3's time, how he filled in for him, what he had to deal with last year with out injury riddled roster that last year and the numbers he still put up. He should go down as one the best QB's we every had even though it didn't translate to wins. I've seen plenty of down years we had NO passing game and getting first downs through the air was a breath of fresh air.

 

Redskins fans should be better than this. And if you were a true fan whose witnessed those bad teams after Gibbs 1 ended and how hard it was for us to find a legit QB you wouldn't be bashing Kirk like that..

[TheShredder]

I liked Kirk Cousins and enjoyed watching his career.  He's not a Redskin anymore and I'm not a Vikings fan.  

 

Alex Smith...he's the starting QB for the next few years in DC.  I'm taking the trade in stride. The one thing that appears to be the most paramount issue is Wins and Losses.  Some QB's find a way to win wherever they go.  By all appearances, that's what Alex Smith does. Since the trade was a QB comparison, by the numbers, shows them to be similar, when you come right down to it, I gotta go with the wins and losses.  How much was the Fuller trade going to impact the most major issue with the Skins Defense (run defense), zero.  How much fall off will there be if there's somewhat of a yard differential you'd give up from the slot position being downgraded?  Whatever that differential is, will this cost you a game like it does when your QB consistently kills your chances in the Red Zone!?  I think I give up Fuller and take the trade for a winning QB, who isn't going to throw away 2-4 critical games a year. Additionally, Cousins wanted the money.  He got it.  That's not going to change what he does in the Red Zone or in game critical situations.  I don't view him as a winning QB, however I do view Smith as a winning QB. 

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

On 7/28/2018 at 7:14 PM, skinsOLfan said:

The only stat that matters is wins and losses

 

 

Sonny Jurgenson has a losing record and is just one of 3 Hall of Fame QB to never start a playoff game.  Since this is your position I'll ask you to defend it and state your case as to just how Sonny Jurgenson was a bad QB.   

 

 

[Morneblade]

On 7/28/2018 at 7:14 PM, skinsOLfan said:

The only stat that matters is wins and losses I don't care how many yards the QB throws for or the RB runs for or the WR has none of it matters if you lose more than you win, period.

Why don't you get it?????????? Why the excuses for Cousins bad throws????

 

We're trying to figure out why you can't seem to understand that this is not Tennis. This is Football. IT'S A TEAM GAME. And the TEAM is responsible for the record, not just one guy. Like, when your defenses is bad, and beat up badly with injuries, your WR's are bad, your OL is torn apart due to injuries, and your RB's suck AND have injuries all over the place. But the W/L record is solely up to the QB, no matter what is going on with the other 51 players on the team? Do you realize how stupid that sounds? Do you?

[Darrell Green Fan]

6 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

We're trying to figure out why you can't seem to understand that this is not Tennis. This is Football. IT'S A TEAM GAME. And the TEAM is responsible for the record, not just one guy. Like, when your defenses is bad, and beat up badly with injuries, your WR's are bad, your OL is torn apart due to injuries, and your RB's suck AND have injuries all over the place. But the W/L record is solely up to the QB, no matter what is going on with the other 51 players on the team? Do you realize how stupid that sounds? Do you?

 

Apparently he/she does not understand how stupid their position is.  

[skinny21]

Man, to think we could have signed Drew Stanton - a 34 year old qb with a better win % than Smith - saved a bunch of money (Geico style), and kept Fuller and our 3rd rounder.  Really missed the boat there.  ?

[Warhead36]

Anyone who uses W/L record to evaluate QBs is someone I immediately ignore. It is by far the stupidest metric to use.

 

Wanna know who has a winning record? Tim Tebow. Case closed.

[NoCalMike]

In football all statistics are relative and can be justified and/or spun according to a team's W/L record.

 

If a team makes the playoffs because of the collective effort of their players, despite no single skill position player putting up super star statistics no one cares.

 

Contrast that with a bad team that feeds the ball to their 1 super star giving them fantastic fantasy numbers? Again, no one cares.

 

The NFL is about one thing: WINNING.

[crabbypatty]

I don't really care that Kirk threw more td's and for more yards (It was nice) but all those yards and td's didn't account for much of anything because we still sucked.  I really don't care if we end up with a bunch of 190 yard passing days as long as we get more W's than L's at the end of the day. Quibbling about a few more td's or a higher completion % by a few points is kind of pointless now. It is what it is..

But even if Smith is the inferior passer, the roster is much better than it was during those Kirk years.. so it will probably wash out in the end.

 

I do however maintain that Smith's pedestrian numbers over the last 5 years (minus last season) were more attributable to Reid's dink and dunk offense, than an indictment of Smith as a passer.

McNabb ran the same **** for a decade in Philly, His stats and Smith's averages are almost identical.

It's ANDY REID who is the dink and dunker.. don't you people remember all those philly games back in the day with McNabb doing the quick 3 step dink and dunk passing attack or running? How our pass rushers could never get to the guy?

I think it's just the design of the Reid offense... And it's smart. He rode that to a bunch of playoff games and a SB in philly, and 5 straight playoff appearances in KC I believe Smith is capable of more, as evidenced by last year. Hopefully Gruden can get more out of him.

 

 

[HardcoreZorn]

@crabbypatty good post and yes context is key. We amassed 4500+ yards with the QB carousel in 2014. It's scheme dependent. Jared Goff went from looking like Alex Smith's rookie year to tossing it all over the field with McVay (obviously a Gruden disciple) in the fold. None of that is to say Alex is going to come in here and throw 4500 yards guaranteed. But Harbaugh and Reid certainly are much different than Gruden, and with Smith there is a chance his limited bulk numbers were scheme related. He certainly seemed to rise to the occasion last year, but we'll see.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, crabbypatty said:

I don't really care that Kirk threw more td's and for more yards (It was nice) but all those yards and td's didn't account for much of anything because we still sucked.  I really don't care if we end up with a bunch of 190 yard passing days as long as we get more W's than L's at the end of the day. Quibbling about a few more td's or a higher completion % by a few points is kind of pointless now. It is what it is..

But even if Smith is the inferior passer, the roster is much better than it was during those Kirk years.. so it will probably wash out in the end.

 

I do however maintain that Smith's pedestrian numbers over the last 5 years (minus last season) were more attributable to Reid's dink and dunk offense, than an indictment of Smith as a passer.

McNabb ran the same **** for a decade in Philly, His stats and Smith's averages are almost identical.

It's ANDY REID who is the dink and dunker.. don't you people remember all those philly games back in the day with McNabb doing the quick 3 step dink and dunk passing attack or running? How our pass rushers could never get to the guy?

I think it's just the design of the Reid offense... And it's smart. He rode that to a bunch of playoff games and a SB in philly, and 5 straight playoff appearances in KC I believe Smith is capable of more, as evidenced by last year. Hopefully Gruden can get more out of him.

 

 

 

Since this thread is about re-watching games -- I've done it with coaches tape a lot.  2 things I noticed about Kirk that rarely gets a mention.

 

1. He is really good at selling play action.  I think Alex is too so I don't expect a drop off.

2.  If you slow down the tape -- you can somewhat see what Cooley at times would say in his film review last year and that is the Wrs weren't great at getting open.

3.  In Jordan Reed's limited snaps that dude really really knows how to get open -- him playing this season to me is a game changer for the outcome of the year.  He and Thompson play, I'd go 11-5.  If they don't 8-8.

 

Losing games last year I don't put on Kirk.  As Joey T. likes to say the dude was a warrior last year working with very little.  The Vikings FO is one of the sharpest in the league, they typically know what they are doing.  If they saw Kirk as a loser (not saying you are calling him that) they wouldn't give him the big bucks and discard the Qb who took them to the championship for him.

 

As for Alex being ballsier than his stats would indicate.  Will see.  Got not idea on my end.  There are some film geek guys who say he's very hesitant to throw in tight windows.  Whether that's his instinct or Reid coached that into him?  Remains to be seen.  Should be fun to watch. 

 

Most interesting thing about the loud criticisms about both Alex and Kirk is that much of it centers around neither guy is the QB you want on the field when the game is on the line for a late quarter winning drive -- probably both criticisms are unfair.  But will see.   But some of the KC reporters are very loud on that point.  ditto some fans/media on Kirk.

 

For Alex, the thing I am looking forward to the most is the funky formations -- RPO, RO.  

[Cherokee]

This D will surprise the talking heads.  With a wish and a prayer, the D remains healthy all year, stack up on confidence and make opponents O feel they need to work hard, study hard in practice because B&G is coming.  HTTR!

Winter is coming!

[skinsOLfan]

Well now that Kirk's in Minnesota with a top 10 defense and offensive weapons galore he has no excuse not to get double digit wins and win a playoff game. Let's see where the Vikings and Redskins stand at the end of the year record wise.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

9 hours ago, skinsOLfan said:

Well now that Kirk's in Minnesota with a top 10 defense and offensive weapons galore he has no excuse not to get double digit wins and win a playoff game. Let's see where the Vikings and Redskins stand at the end of the year record wise.

 

 

I noticed that you never responded to my request to hear your argument that Sonny was a bad QB seeing as you place wins/losses as the only measuring stick when evaluating QBs.  Next we can move on to Hall of Famer Archie Manning. 

 

As for this post I'll take the Vikings.  

10 hours ago, Cherokee said:

This D will surprise the talking heads.  With a wish and a prayer, the D remains healthy all year, stack up on confidence and make opponents O feel they need to work hard, study hard in practice because B&G is coming.  HTTR!

Winter is coming!

 

I agree with this. Our starting front 7 is as good as any I can recall and they are improving the safety position which has been a problem for a long time.  Depth however is an issue.

[DC9]

Well this was a great thread for the first two pages. 

 

Nice job OP. 

 

Crowder was probably the biggest enigma for me last year as well.  It almost looked psychological after the second time it happend.  His first year as "The proverbial man" without DJax and Pierre, so he gets a year from me, too.  Hopefully it changes now and hopefully having a couple more weapons helps.  Health would go a long way.

 

I'd add a "Silver Lining" category in that so many of the youngins and depth got reps due to injuries.  At least it helped us identify that we needed help on the DL and hopefully we were able to get that in the draft and knock on wood Phil Taylor.  I think that immediately pluses up the run defense and the back end as you later mentioned.

[Cherokee]

Reps!  How does a position coach use and determine time and exposure to reps to add to play experience?  A coach will need to observe the player's ability; the player's ability to "catch on" quickly, as well, then see if there is time which could be dedicated by the coach to helping a player become better, sooner than later.  Building depth takes time, with players willingly and physically contributing to this in practice.  Seems to me, with teams going "younger", but also with franchises requiring players to be smarter; toss in the strong possibility "lack of time" in practice; a tiny bit of luck, perhaps, will help build that depth.  I love what CoachTorian Grey is doing, and I believe, as is the norm across the NFL landscape with all coaching, that we are no better or worse for depth.

[Darth Tater]

First play of the season.  Had that been Djax, I think it would have been an 86 yard TD.

[skinsOLfan]

I didn't respond to your question about Sonny Jurgenson because he's a Hall of Fame QB and this thread is about re-watching last years games and commenting on THAT.

Now by my recollection Sonny Jurgenson wasn't playing last year was he, so your question is irrelevent, but it's funny how many of you in this thread bashed the hell out of RGIII and blamed him for EVERYTHING. No one talked about the horrendous OL he had outside of Trent nor the bad defenses, no EVERYTHING was RGIII's fault. But turn the tables and talk about Kirk's failures and you get all in your feelings, I watched the games the last 3 years and Kirk had his moments but he seemed to be more interested in padding his stats than getting wins. He choked in every big game or moment, I'm so glad he's gone.