TheGreatBuzz Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 Do we trust Rudy on this? If so, does Mueller think it is better to let it go the impeachment route? Thoughts in general about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 I don’t understand why the President would be exempt from that. I’d let the Supreme Court decide. If it doesn’t work, just make your recommendation for impeachment based on the evidence and charges available 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: I don’t understand why the President would be exempt from that. After only minimal thought, I think this is the best long term. If it is determined that a POTUS can be indicted, then I could see that being a ploy used for every POTUS going forward to indict them on some bs because he/she isn't popular at the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 (edited) Even if it turns out to be true, there are many other legal methods to get at Trump or punish him aside from Mueller indicting him. Edited May 16, 2018 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Do we trust Rudy on this? If so, does Mueller think it is better to let it go the impeachment route? Thoughts in general about this? No, do not trust him on anything. He’s routinely shown to be full of crap. But i recall predicto (I think) saying even lawyers that should know (including himself and others that work in scotus level stuff) were quite unsure whether a sitting president could be indicted. I believe the articles at the time were leaning towards: cannot. I trust predicto. The real question is whether the democrats will win enough seats to impeach, and whether any republicans have the spine to do what’s right. Im guessing the dems will win plenty of seats but almost no republicans will stick up for what’s right. They’ll play party > * all. Which I don’t understand. I always thought kicking trump out and letting pence run the show would be the best move for the gop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 In general I understand why we’d want to protect a president from that. Indictment is too easy in the grand scheme of things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, visionary said: Even if it turns out to be true, there are many other legal methods to get at Trump or punish him aside from Mueller indicting him. Like what? Honestly asking. The only thing I know of would be impeachment and I seriously doubt the Dems gain enough seats to completely remove him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 Mueller could get a grand jury to render a secret indictment, that wouldn't be prosecuted until after he leaves office. And that's all well and good if he isn't re-elected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Like what? Honestly asking. The only thing I know of would be impeachment and I seriously doubt the Dems gain enough seats to completely remove him. I mean I assume they can still indict people around him and his organization. I also wonder about lawsuits from people harmed by the actions of him and his co-conspirators. Hopefully he could at least be forced/leveraged to resign somehow, if impeachment is impossible. I do worry that he could get away with all this though if enough people in power refuse to do the right thing. Edited May 16, 2018 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 If Mueller gets the goods and Trump isn’t impeached, I’m afraid we will see this country eat itself. The sides have already been chosen. Just need a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 It's been speculated by legal analyst that Mueller feels that way (that a sitting president is not subject to criminal prosecution and the appropriate way to address it is to refer the information uncovered by the investigation to Congress). I don't know if you can necessarily say that a sitting president can't be criminally prosecuted as a legal matter, but I do think referral to Congress is probably preferable in almost all circumstances. Some countries specifically codify president's immunity fwiw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said: If Mueller gets the goods and Trump isn’t impeached, I’m afraid we will see this country eat itself. The sides have already been chosen. Just need a match. That's why I think the Left needs to be more Pro 2nd amendment. One side already has plenty of guns. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 I would actually prefer him referring the information however damming to Congress and watching all play out. I really want to know if repubs and dems can do the right thing as a unit and not play political games, once and for all, with damming undeniable evidence to go off of. I assume I know the result. But I would really like to see what they do and then see a full revolt from there. I have no hope that it ends with what I want. But I would still rather it be plain as day for everyone to see versus this bull**** we have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Llevron said: I would actually prefer him referring the information however damming to Congress and watching all play out. I really want to know if repubs and dems can do the right thing as a unit and not play political games, once and for all, with damming undeniable evidence to go off of. You already know the answer to that. The entire Nunes operation was created from the outset for the specific purpose of trying to create, in advance, enough BS so that people would throw up their hands in befuddlement, when the Congress voted to ignore the crimes which they knew, in advance, were going to be discovered. (So were Trump's continual cries of "no collusion!!!".) They never even attempted to claim that the **** was innocent. Their plan, from the beginning, was to try to generate cover for not doing anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 11 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: That's why I think the Left needs to be more Pro 2nd amendment. One side already has plenty of guns. Don’t conflate the 2nd amendment with the NRA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 1 minute ago, TryTheBeal! said: Don’t conflate the 2nd amendment with the NRA. Can you explain what you mean? I don't want to respond until I am sure what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: That's why I think the Left needs to be more Pro 2nd amendment. One side already has plenty of guns. I'm not sure I understand. There ain't nobody out there who wants to be a gun owner that isn't one already. 15 minutes ago, Llevron said: I really want to know if repubs and dems can do the right thing as a unit and not play political games, once and for all, with damming undeniable evidence to go off of. BRO!!! How many times do you have to watch these mother****ers pull there bull**** before you are convinced? 5 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Can you explain what you mean? I don't want to respond until I am sure what you mean. The NRA isn't the champion of the 2nd amendment. The NRA is the marketing department for gun manufacturers. The NRA is absolutely evil. Edited May 16, 2018 by Sacks 'n' Stuff 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 (edited) Right. There's nothing to say that the 2nd Amendment can't have some guidelines. There already is, like felons can't own guns. Ready to give that up for a naked right? Edited May 16, 2018 by LadySkinsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 (edited) Edited May 16, 2018 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: I'm not sure I understand. There ain't nobody out there who wants to be a gun owner that isn't one already. I'm sure there are plenty of juveniles and felons that want guns but can't have them. On a more serious yet hoping it is off base note, more than a few people have mentioned how they see everything playing out including violence. My comment was meant as if they think there will be violence (and I can't say I would be surprised if they end up being right), then everyone knows that the "deplorables" are mostly good ole' boys skilled with a gun. And a fair amount of more liberal people are anti-gun and therefore don't have them or at least are not as proficient. The more liberal people should rethink that equation if they think there may be violence at some point. Yes these are broad generalizations but would you dispute the claim that people on the right have more and are more proficient with weapons than those on the left? 9 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: The NRA isn't the champion of the 2nd amendment. The NRA is the marketing department for gun manufacturers. Agree. And I didn't mention the NRA. It has nothing to do with them. Not trying to argue gun control here. Just that if there is a "revolt" or whatever, I'd want to be quite skilled with a firearm. 5 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said: Right. There's nothing to say that the 2nd Amendment can't have some guidelines. There already is, like felons can't own guns. Ready to give that up for a naked right? Not sure what you are saying here but I think it may be more appropriate for the gun control thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: I'm sure there are plenty of juveniles and felons that want guns but can't have them. Pfft... They must not want it very badly then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: Pfft... They must not want it very badly then. Funny. Care to respond to the rest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Care to respond to the rest? I’m not one who expects a full scale civil war so can’t say much about that. If there’s any trouble, my plan is to stay inside. The NRA part... I was just responding to the other posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 8 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: I’m not one who expects a full scale civil war so can’t say much about that. If there’s any trouble, my plan is to stay inside. The NRA part... I was just responding to the other posts. For the record I don't expect that either. I think the chances of wide spread violence even is probably low. However, hope for the best.......plan for the worst. Again, my point was that more than a few people have said they wouldn't be surprised to see something like that happen. And if there is a chance, the people that are on the "good side" would be smart to have weapons and be proficient with them. The impression I get from most on the the "good side" is that isn't the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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