The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[PartyPosse]

1 minute ago, XtremeFan55 said:

 

That is the emotional reaction that most fans will probably have.....the feeling of being jilted....

Perhaps, but that's what it is. If he wanted to leave all along then signing the franchise tag under the illusion that he wanted to stay longterm is greedy and really a dick move on his part. 

[Veryoldschool]

If the 49ers sign Hoyer it would indicate they aren't looking to pick up Kirk in 2017.  Kyle had some success with Hoyer in Cleveland and Hoyer played well for Chicago before getting hurt, this makes sense.  The 49ers get a functioning high level backup and adequate placeholder starter in Hoyer.  This probably means the trade is dead a Kirk to the 49ers is still very much alive in my view.  Smart play by the 49ers in my view.  They keep their top picks for other critical roster needs, get a credible interim QB, use their funds to build out a roster.  

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Yea, for me personally, I would show him no love.  If no LTD gets done, I really hope our fans don't cave in to whatever spin his agent puts out.  No reason to make this season less awkward for him than it should be.

 

There have been a lot of conflicting rumors and reports but there have been one consistent point about what's been going on and that is the Redskins have yet to offer him a fair market deal.   Most reporters think the 24-25 range per year would land him.  It's seems to be the fair market value according to most.  But as far as we know the FO hasn't offered him that.    Keim even reported that the guaranteed money in the Redskins offer was low.

 

At the moment based on what we know the FO wants Kirk to take a deal that's below fair market.  And even most of the cynical reporters on the Kirk front still think if the Redskins come up on their offer to the 24 million range, Kirk will take that offer.   Unless, we find out later something crazy like they offered Kirk 80 million in guaranteed money and 25 million a year and Kirk said no -- 100% of my animosity about a deal not getting done would be directed at the FO not Kirk. 

 

Not to mention that at the moment it looks like Kirk lost 2 of his favorite weapons and whenever he turns on the TV he hears about the team being a clown show (whether its justified or not)  so its tough for me to be mad at Kirk -- for the time being I am mad at the FO.  But I still think they will get the deal done. 

[PartyPosse]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Not to mention that at the moment it looks like Kirk lost his weapons and whenever he turns on the TV he hears about the team being a clown show.  so its tough for me to be mad at Kirk -- for the time being I am mad at the FO.  But I still think they will get the deal done. 

I think a lot of that may have to do with neither the players nor the team want to make major financial commitments if they have no idea if their franchise QB will be here longterm. In other words, he's probably a very influential piece in terms of whether or not these weapons return. 

[MattFancy]

I'm not so sure Kirk wants to be here. Why? No idea. I guess he still feels "disrespected" by the team? I'm not sure why though. Just laying out the timeline:

 

2012 - No way Cousins actually thought he would start this year, right? I mean they traded up to get Griffin and Griffin had one of the best rookie QB seasons and was ROY. Yes, Cousins filled in for the Ravens win and looked good against the Browns, but it was clearly Griffin's team at this point.

 

2013 - Griffin coming off ACL injury, but also reigning ROY and coming off a playoff season. Sure, maybe Cousins should have started that season, but he did get his chance over the last 3 games and was "meh". No reason at this point to believe this should be Cousins's team.

 

2014 - New HC and a healthy Griffin going into the season. Cousins did look good in the preseason, but it was still Griffin's team. Griffin gets hurt early and Kirk gets a chance. Was up and down during his starts and gets pulled at halftime of the Titans game when the team was trailing and Cousins wasn't play well. McCoy comes in and plays the best of all 3 QBs that season and gets benched when Griffin is healthy. Cousins gets demoted to 3rd string and is inactive once Griffin was back. Maybe this was the start of the disrespecting?

 

2015 - Griffin was named starter early in offseason, rightly or wrongly. Griffin gets hurt in preseason and Kirk takes over. Gruden names him the unquestioned starter going into the season over Griffin. Cousins gets off to slow start and then gets hot over the final half of the season and leads team to the playoffs.

 

2016 - Cousins gets franchised at $20M. Skins offer $16M or so and Cousins turns it down. Hard to blame either at this point since Skins are rightly shy in giving Cousins a ton of money and Cousins believes he's worth more because he'll get $20M for the season from the tag. Cousins has another good year and forces the Skins to have franchise him again.

 

2017 - Kirk gets franchised at $25M for the year. Skins offer $20M and he turns it down.

 

I just don't buy the "disrespected" narrative that is floating around out there. After the way Kirk played in 2014, there was no real reason to name him the unquestioned starter going into the season. Gruden didn't have to do anything at that point to give Cousins the job. So if anything, he should be grateful for Gruden.

[Jumbo]

44 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 But it is feasible that his mind has changed if the FO has stayed stubborn in negotiations, coupled with his favorite weapon going to SF, losing his 2nd favorite weapon, and hearing about all the craziness about the FO via every local-national reporter under the sun.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap3000000791450/Wyche-Cousins-has-made-it-clear-he-wants-to-play-in-San-Francisco

 

Points among those I mentioned leaving out in my previous post, and I am with you word for word. 

 

Knowing many obvious counterpoints, and after knowing of our cap room weeks back (pre the kirk deal dragging on and the scot deal and any potential shake-ups), I was kind of comfy with a vision where we resign both receivers. I was hoping Djax wouldn't break our bank (maybe, hopefully, work with us), nor did i anticipate Pierre being possibly offered such big $$$, tho i expected a mil or 2 raise. I'm going to assume I don't have to "explain" all the reasons that would be attractive, one of them being the familiarity (in every way) angle combined with the talent.

 

Though not a WR, I also counted Reed's health as a reason to keep the potency of the rest of the passing game that is already proven at the highest level. I figured we could still get our younger talent out there as needed. Now it looks like those two are going to be too pricey period (fat lady hasn't sung yet tho) and there are other top wr's out there, so I was due for adjustment, anyway. But now adding everything else, what had been an overall sunny vision for me that  included rarely attained stability going into next year, as usual, is of course much more up in the air.

 

Because Redskins.

[@DCGoldPants]

The idea that a 1st time coach and 1st time GM are spending like this....but have some detailed long term plan for another QB. I don't know. 

[Cooleyfan1993]

right now I just think kirk is being stubborn. it sounds like hes saying "i will ONLY sign with san Francisco, nobody else!!". I honestly don't understand why kirk doesn't like the redskins this much. like...sorry for believing in you...?

[PartyPosse]

3 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

right now I just think kirk is being stubborn. it sounds like hes saying "i will ONLY sign with san Francisco, nobody else!!". I honestly don't understand why kirk doesn't like the redskins this much. like...sorry for believing in you...?

Because Kyle probably told him some **** like "Bruce Allen hates your guts and Dan Snyder thinks God isn't real".

 

I would really start to look into how much communication Kyle and Kirk have had over the last few months. 

[XtremeFan55]

24 minutes ago, Butters20 said:

Kirk is gonna sign it nice and quick like now that the 49ers signed hoyer. Takes some of his immediate leverage away

 

The opposite.  No one in his right mind would classify Hoyer as the long term quarterback solution for the 49ers.  Everything is sending signals to Cousins that they are prepared to wait for him so please don't sign a LTD.. Hoyer would be the perfect backup for Cousins and can also help with the transition to Kyle's offense to prepare for Cousins.   He is also the perfect placeholder....but I don't see that happening

 

Hoyer's 2 year $6 million per is backup money....

 

it's obvious ...

[SpacePenguin]

5 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

right now I just think kirk is being stubborn. it sounds like hes saying "i will ONLY sign with san Francisco, nobody else!!". I honestly don't understand why kirk doesn't like the redskins this much. like...sorry for believing in you...?

 

Lol, given the history and ignoring all the psychoanalytic BS flying around, doesn't it seem more likely that the front office (led by Bruce Allen) is being cheap....again?

[Cooleyfan1993]

Just now, SpacePenguin said:

 

Lol, given the history and ignoring all the psychoanalytic BS flying around, doesn't it seem more likely that the front office (led by Bruce Allen) is being cheap....again?

well, if they want to be able to have money to fix the defense, they kinda have to save some money. I hope kirk would actually understand that. at the same time, I think what the team should do is just offer him $25M. hes making $24M on the franchise tag, $1M more would do it I hope. then use the rest of the money on defense.

[desertbeagle85]

I'm sure Kirk wants out. This team has never shown that they've got confidence in him.

 

Now he's got only Crowder and well he's not a number 1 that's for sure.

 

Reed is a monster but he's also made of glass.

 

Run game is weak and organization is a joke.

 

So yep not sure why he would want to be here.

 

Money is nice though only thing that had kept him here. That and he doesn't have a choice.

[lavar1156]

 

[HTTRDynasty]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

There have been a lot of conflicting rumors and reports but there have been one consistent point about what's been going on and that is the Redskins have yet to offer him a fair market deal.   Most reporters think the 24-25 range per year would land him.  It's seems to be the fair market value according to most.  But as far as we know the FO hasn't offered him that.    Keim even reported that the guaranteed money in the Redskins offer was low.

 

At the moment based on what we know the FO wants Kirk to take a deal that's below fair market.  And even most of the cynical reporters on the Kirk front still think if the Redskins come up on their offer to the 24 million range, Kirk will take that offer.   Unless, we find out later something crazy like they offered Kirk 80 million in guaranteed money and 25 million a year and Kirk said no -- 100% of my animosity about a deal not getting done would be directed at the FO not Kirk. 

 

Not to mention that at the moment it looks like Kirk lost 2 of his favorite weapons and whenever he turns on the TV he hears about the team being a clown show (whether its justified or not)  so its tough for me to be mad at Kirk -- for the time being I am mad at the FO.  But I still think they will get the deal done. 

 

We honestly have no idea what exactly the Redskins have been offering this offseason.  We just have rumors and speculation.  Nothing concrete.  TK just said they offered him 23M a week or so ago I believe, and others are saying only 20M. 

 

When it comes down to it, I believe that our FO would offer him at least 24M close to the deadline at the risk of him leaving next offseason.  I believe if he doesn't accept it, he doesn't want to be here.  And if I hear reports about us lowballing him and never giving him a fair offer, I'm going to believe it's the spin put out by his agent.

[SpacePenguin]

1 minute ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

well, if they want to be able to have money to fix the defense, they kinda have to save some money. I hope kirk would actually understand that. at the same time, I think what the team should do is just offer him $25M. hes making $24M on the franchise tag, $1M more would do it I hope. then use the rest of the money on defense.

 

I'm merely pointing out that the idea of Kirk wanting to go to San Francisco at all costs holds less water than the FO being cheap again.

 

The motives behind said cheapness are open to conjecture. I'll be more inclined to believe it's to fix the defense if they sign top tier defensive talent instead of the C level scrubs that have been brought in the last few years. Not holding my breath on that, though.

 

It's all good though. Time will tell.

[lavar1156]

 

 

Does he mean sign Kirk to a LTD?

[markshark84]

18 minutes ago, MattFancy said:

I'm not so sure Kirk wants to be here. Why? No idea. I guess he still feels "disrespected" by the team? I'm not sure why though. Just laying out the timeline:

 

2012 - No way Cousins actually thought he would start this year, right? I mean they traded up to get Griffin and Griffin had one of the best rookie QB seasons and was ROY. Yes, Cousins filled in for the Ravens win and looked good against the Browns, but it was clearly Griffin's team at this point.

 

2013 - Griffin coming off ACL injury, but also reigning ROY and coming off a playoff season. Sure, maybe Cousins should have started that season, but he did get his chance over the last 3 games and was "meh". No reason at this point to believe this should be Cousins's team.

 

2014 - New HC and a healthy Griffin going into the season. Cousins did look good in the preseason, but it was still Griffin's team. Griffin gets hurt early and Kirk gets a chance. Was up and down during his starts and gets pulled at halftime of the Titans game when the team was trailing and Cousins wasn't play well. McCoy comes in and plays the best of all 3 QBs that season and gets benched when Griffin is healthy. Cousins gets demoted to 3rd string and is inactive once Griffin was back. Maybe this was the start of the disrespecting?

 

2015 - Griffin was named starter early in offseason, rightly or wrongly. Griffin gets hurt in preseason and Kirk takes over. Gruden names him the unquestioned starter going into the season over Griffin. Cousins gets off to slow start and then gets hot over the final half of the season and leads team to the playoffs.

 

2016 - Cousins gets franchised at $20M. Skins offer $16M or so and Cousins turns it down. Hard to blame either at this point since Skins are rightly shy in giving Cousins a ton of money and Cousins believes he's worth more because he'll get $20M for the season from the tag. Cousins has another good year and forces the Skins to have franchise him again.

 

2017 - Kirk gets franchised at $25M for the year. Skins offer $20M and he turns it down.

 

I just don't buy the "disrespected" narrative that is floating around out there. After the way Kirk played in 2014, there was no real reason to name him the unquestioned starter going into the season. Gruden didn't have to do anything at that point to give Cousins the job. So if anything, he should be grateful for Gruden.

 

Yeah this or (more likely) he has first-hand knowledge of the ongoings within the organization ---- and fully understands we have the worst owner in all of sports, one who has no clue how to successfully run a franchise.  Cousins has options, so why would he want to sign with a team he knows won't be managed or put him in a position to win?  Personally, I think that is the reason.

 

Same reason we won't be able to get an even mildly talented GM if/when Scot gets fired.

[Burgundy Yoda]

2 minutes ago, desertbeagle85 said:

I'm sure Kirk wants out. This team has never shown that they've got confidence in him.

 

Now he's got only Crowder and well he's not a number 1 that's for sure.

 

Reed is a monster but he's also made of glass.

 

Run game is weak and organization is a joke.

 

So yep not sure why he would want to be here.

 

Money is nice though only thing that had kept him here. That and he doesn't have a choice.

 

I wouldn't be so sure, everything is speculation up to this point. The media is dying for some drama to write about the Redskins, and it's been so obvious with the negative conflicting reports.

 

If Doctson pans out, the trio of Reed, Crowder and Doctson is definitely still a good one. Add in Davis and some sort of Free Agency acquisition and we're pretty much where we were last year. 

[SlkyCaramel]

5 minutes ago, lavar1156 said:

 

 

Does he mean sign Kirk to a LTD?

 

Yes that's what he means. 

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

11 minutes ago, lavar1156 said:

Does he mean sign Kirk to a LTD?

 

Thats the way I read it. Skins will offer Kirk 24/25 mil per. 

 

Why cant we offer that now? 

 

edit - does he have to sign the tag before we can start negotiating? 

[Burgundy Yoda]

5 minutes ago, lavar1156 said:

 

 

Does he mean sign Kirk to a LTD?

 

They're saying we're going to pay his contract based off of what the Tag is. So 24 million dollar a year salary. 

[markshark84]

2 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

 

If Doctson pans out, the trio of Reed, Crowder and Doctson is definitely still a good one. Add in Davis and some sort of Free Agency acquisition and we're pretty much where we were last year. 

 

So you are saying that Doctson + player to be determined later = Garcon + Jackson.

 

Yeah, not so much.

[lavar1156]

Soooo....good news right?

[Skinsinparadise]

50 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

Knowing many obvious counterpoints, and after knowing of our cap room weeks back (pre the kirk deal dragging on and the scot deal and any potential shake-ups), I was kind of comfy with a vision where we resign both receivers. I was hoping Djax wouldn't break our bank (maybe, hopefully, work with us), nor did i anticipate Pierre being possibly offered such big $$$, tho i expected a mil or 2 raise. I'm going to assume I don't have to "explain" all the reasons that would be attractive, one of them being the familiarity (in every way) angle combined with the talent.

 

Though not a WR, I also counted Reed's health as a reason to keep the potency of the rest of the passing game that is already proven at the highest level. I figured we could still get our younger talent out there as needed. Now it looks like those two are going to be too pricey period (fat lady hasn't sung yet tho) and there are other top wr's out there, so I was due for adjustment, anyway. But now adding everything else, what had been an overall sunny vision for me that  included rarely attained stability going into next year, as usual, is of course much more up in the air.

 

Because Redskins.

 

Yeah to me this team was obviously on the brink of something special.  You have one of the most explosive offenses in the league, now go fix the defense.  At the moment, they are tearing apart the strength of the team.  Now they can fix that back quickly by resigning Kirk and signing a FA like Britt but at the moment it looks like they are breaking it all up.   The idea of selling Kirk on continuity has lost some luster. 

 

As for some on this thread saying what does Kirk have to be upset about?  You got other teams fawning over QBs.  Looks like Glennon is getting 15 million a year.  The Falcons are talking about extending Ryan early.  He saw what the Texans gave Osweiler.  According to Scot himself in the Bleacher Report article, he more or less said hey do it again and we will overpay at that point -- and instead so far the team low balled him last year and so far have low balled him (though not as badly) this year.   He has the Shanahans saying this dude is a top 5 Superbowl caliber QB.   While he has Bruce Allen thus far asking him to take below market value.

 

And then you got the vibe that the circus is hot and heavy at Redskins Park.   And if I am watching on ESPN NFL insiders talk about the team's lack of ability to work out a contract with Kirk as another sign of the team being dysfunctional -- odds are Kirk is watching the same stuff.  And for the moment in FA it looks like SF is aggressively strengthening the team whereas thus far the Redskins are getting weaker.

 

 

1. Mark Bullock‏ @MarkBullockNFL  32s33 seconds ago

   More

   Mark Bullock Retweeted Kevin Jones

   No reason to choose Skins over anyone right now. Far too much uncertainty.

   Mark Bullock added,

   Kevin JonesVerified account @Mr_KevinJones

   I was told the 49ers were fearful Marquise Goodwin would choose the Redskins over them. Kyle and John Lynch continue to deliver in meetings