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Film Breakdown: Redskins New 3-4 Under Defense

thehbrwhammer

By thehbrwhammer
in The Stadium

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Aireskoi

Aireskoi

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Really interesting article for me.  The writer (Samuel Gold - good follow on twitter @SamuelRGold ) seems to see our OLB situation the same way I do.  I have wondered if we would see Kerrigan and Murphy switch sides in this defense.

 

"The weakside outside* linebacker position is your pure pass rusher whose goal is to blitz freely around the edge. Ryan Kerrigan should fill this spot due to his great ability at getting to the quarterback. He showed countless times last season generating 13.5 sacks, 9 QB hits, and 51 QB hurries that he can be trusted to rush the passer.

The strongside outside linebacker is responsible for edge contain outside of the tight end. He then rushes the quarterback second.Trent Murphy showed occasional potential in pass rushing his rookie season but showed great run defending skills and surprising fluidity in space in pass coverage to earn him the nod at this position. Brian Orakpo would have played the same position which he would have excelled at if he was to be retained by the Redskins."

 

 

My twitter post last week didn't get much traction, lol:

 

@Rich_TandlerCSN Any talk of Murphy and Kerrigan trading sides of the defense this year?

 

@AireskoiES I don’t see that happening. Kerrigan comfortable and effective on left side.

 

@Rich_TandlerCSN @AireskoiES Ppl are crazy smh. That's all ima say bout this.

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Vilandil Tasardur

Vilandil Tasardur

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Excellent post. Always good to read actual Xs and Os this time of year.

 

I also have long thought that Kerrigan should have switched to the right side every time Orakpo got hurt, but not quite for the same reasons.

 

For me, it's about dollar$. Kerrigan needs a new contract soon, and we all agree he deserves one. He's been the only real defensive stud we've had in his tenure. But for me, if he's going to make pass rusher money, he needs to be consistently beating left tackles. I don't think it's fair to tell Orakpo he can walk because he never gets home against the best offensive linemen on the team but then turn around and pay Kerrigan when he doesn't rush against those tackles.

 

To me, it would be like making Wes Welker a top 5 receiver in the league for setting the single season catch record when in reality he never saw a safety because Randy Moss was jogging fade routes on the outside all season. 

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thehbrwhammer

thehbrwhammer

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Really interesting article for me.  The writer (Samuel Gold - good follow on twitter @SamuelRGold ) seems to see our OLB situation the same way I do.  I have wondered if we would see Kerrigan and Murphy switch sides in this defense.

 

I'm actually the author (Sam Gold), so thank you for your comment! :)

 

And I still don't know if Kerrigan/Murphy will play the position (weakside/strongside) or if they will play left outside linebacker/right outside linebacker. It makes MUCH more sense to rotate them by position, but Haslett refused to do that when it obviously suits them better to switch IMO.

 

Edit: And you actually pointed out a type for me. I meant to say " The weakside outside linebacker position is your pure pass rusher..."

 

Not weakside inside

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mistertim

mistertim

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I'm actually the author (Sam Gold), so thank you for your comment! :)

 

And I still don't know if Kerrigan/Murphy will play the position (weakside/strongside) or if they will play left outside linebacker/right outside linebacker. It makes MUCH more sense to rotate them by position, but Haslett refused to do that when it obviously suits them better to switch IMO.

 

Edit: And you actually pointed out a type for me. I meant to say " The weakside outside linebacker position is your pure pass rusher..."

 

Not weakside inside

You mentioned them drafting another OLB as well. What direction do you think they would go as far as the type of player they'd be looking for? Pure edge rusher or a bigger run stuffer?

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Silvernon

Silvernon

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Sure...gloss over his significant hearing issue. Kerrigan on the right would be preferable, but that seems entirely out of the question.

Why can't a defense be flipped? Why not match power against athleticism and vice versa. Most teams prefer running left regardless - having Murphy on the right is not an issue.

You only go OLB if it's Beasley. Elite or nothing.

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TSO

TSO

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I thought this part was interesting and helped allay some of my issues with the Barry hire:

Barry worked under San Diego defensive coordinator John Pagano as his linebackers coach from 2012-2014. John Pagano actually worked under Wade Phillips as his linebackers coach in 2004-2006 when Wade Phillips was the defensive coordinator with the Chargers. During this time, Wade Phillips taught John Pagano the 3-4 Under defense, who consequently ran it with the Chargers when he became the defensive coordinator in 2012. Pagano then taught it to Redskins new defensive coordinator Joe Barry who will realistically install it as the base defense. This is also evidenced by the acquisitions the Redskins made and the current player personnel the Redskins have on their roster.

I really wanted Wade here to help turn around our 3-4 quickly as he's done in the past, and hiring Barry was a head-scratcher. But I had no idea about this info here and it's nice to know.

In a sense, it's like we hired a younger, albeit inexperienced with many more question marks, Wade Phillips. God willing Barry proves he's got as good a command over this D as Wade.

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Wildbunny

Wildbunny

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I thought this part was interesting and helped allay some of my issues with the Barry hire:

I really wanted Wade here to help turn around our 3-4 quickly as he's done in the past, and hiring Barry was a head-scratcher. But I had no idea about this info here and it's nice to know.

In a sense, it's like we hired a younger, albeit inexperienced with many more question marks, Wade Phillips. God willing Barry proves he's got as good a command over this D as Wade.

 

I wasn't aware of this either. So maybe we hired a younger Wade Phillips. Wouldn't complain about that if it turns out good. We're still having question marks regarding our secondary, but our front 7 will suits our base D much better, as many asked for here for quite some time now.

 

Great reading!

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Bishop Hammer

Bishop Hammer

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I thought this part was interesting and helped allay some of my issues with the Barry hire:

I really wanted Wade here to help turn around our 3-4 quickly as he's done in the past, and hiring Barry was a head-scratcher. But I had no idea about this info here and it's nice to know.

In a sense, it's like we hired a younger, albeit inexperienced with many more question marks, Wade Phillips. God willing Barry proves he's got as good a command over this D as Wade.

Its a gamble that might pay off. From what I've read SD's linebackers were a major strength of their defense, despite injuries throughout the season. The LB corp accounted for over half of The Chargers sacks last year.

If Scott McC gets him a proper edge rusher in the draft Joey boy could prove the all naysayers wrong. I have a feeling he can help bring Beasley to the next level, if he lands in Wash.

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thehbrwhammer

thehbrwhammer

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Sure...gloss over his significant hearing issue. Kerrigan on the right would be preferable, but that seems entirely out of the question.

Why can't a defense be flipped? Why not match power against athleticism and vice versa. Most teams prefer running left regardless - having Murphy on the right is not an issue.

You only go OLB if it's Beasley. Elite or nothing.

 

Kerrigan is deaf in one ear. Thats why he doesn't switch sides.

 

Kerrigan played half the game against the Eagles on the right side - 1 hit, 4 hurries in like 12 pass rushing snaps.

 

He even said in an interview it doesn't affect him. I just think that was a preference thing.... definitely could be wrong though.

 

 

You mentioned them drafting another OLB as well. What direction do you think they would go as far as the type of player they'd be looking for? Pure edge rusher or a bigger run stuffer?

 

I don't they target a specific-type rather BPA. To me that's Beasley. If Beasley isn't available then Ray or Fowler. Beasley/Ray would fill the WILL OLB position the best, which means that we could use them in multiple formations and have all three OLBs on the field for 3rd down exotic blitz packages.

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Airyx

Airyx

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Its not like the 'skins never ran any 3-4 Under last year. Haslett did that many times each game.

 

I wouldn't expect any DC to stick with just that scheme for an entire game. Once the OC sees where the 2-gap guy is, he's going to start running counters at him, and trapping the 1-gap guys. You have to move them around.

 

Also, why get a true 2-gap NG (for the first time ever), and NOT have him play 2-gap? I think Knighton will be at the nose 2-gapping most of the time. I would only expect to see a 3-4 Under when Knighton has rotated out...or maybe they will play him as the 2-Gap end....that would be interesting.

 

I also think Hatcher needs to be doing a 1-Gap most of the time....I'd like to see him Wide-9 once in awhile also.

 

With this combination of players, Berry can be pretty creative. He could rotate different guys at different spots, each doing the technique with which they are most comfortable, and still keep the O-Line unsure. If they use that #5 pick on an edge rusher, then this will be even more true.

 

Whatever Berry does, as long as he doesn't call a Cover-0 on 2nd and 8 in the 3rd quarter from between the 40s, it will be an improvement.

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thehbrwhammer

thehbrwhammer

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Its not like the 'skins never ran any 3-4 Under last year. Haslett did that many times each game.

 

I wouldn't expect any DC to stick with just that scheme for an entire game. Once the OC sees where the 2-gap guy is, he's going to start running counters at him, and trapping the 1-gap guys. You have to move them around.

 

Also, why get a true 2-gap NG (for the first time ever), and NOT have him play 2-gap? I think Knighton will be at the nose 2-gapping most of the time. I would only expect to see a 3-4 Under when Knighton has rotated out...or maybe they will play him as the 2-Gap end....that would be interesting.

 

I also think Hatcher needs to be doing a 1-Gap most of the time....I'd like to see him Wide-9 once in awhile also.

 

With this combination of players, Berry can be pretty creative. He could rotate different guys at different spots, each doing the technique with which they are most comfortable, and still keep the O-Line unsure. If they use that #5 pick on an edge rusher, then this will be even more true.

 

Whatever Berry does, as long as he doesn't call a Cover-0 on 2nd and 8 in the 3rd quarter from between the 40s, it will be an improvement.

 

You are correct that no scheme is run 100% of the time. It's the "Base" defense though where it's different now. We ran the 34 okie defense last year ~40-50% of the time and now it looks like we are adapting to a 34 Under ~40-50% of the time with the new personnel. 

 

I do expect us to run a variety of 2-gap sets from the NT position, but remember Knighton has surprising quickness off of the line to play 1gap too and gather a double team.

 

Hatcher wouldn't fit in a wide9. He doesn't have the hip bend and pure explosiveness off of the line. He's much better in 3-tech and 5-tech. You put faster/smaller players in wide9 like Beasley to be able to turn the corner. But I do agree that Hatcher should be 1-gap most of the time.

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Brokenstriker

Brokenstriker

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Sure...gloss over his significant hearing issue. Kerrigan on the right would be preferable, but that seems entirely out of the question.

Why can't a defense be flipped? Why not match power against athleticism and vice versa. Most teams prefer running left regardless - having Murphy on the right is not an issue.

You only go OLB if it's Beasley. Elite or nothing.

I don't know if he does or doesn't but he wouldn't be the first NFL player to have a pick-up mic on his bad side and a speaker in his helmet to relay sound from the deaf side to the other ear.

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Master Blaster

Master Blaster

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"over, under, slant, angle, eagle, okie, colt, stack, etc....." will all be run.  Sometimes you line up and play it that way.  Sometimes you line up and move into different gaps on the snap.  Sometimes you line up in over then shift to under (or some other combination) right before the play.

 

People put way too much into the name of a defense, much like "Tampa 2."  The base call in Tampa 2 was Over 3.  "Tampa 2" referred to the type of players used and the quirky new cover 2 defense used.  Regardless, cover 3 and blitzes were a big portion of the defense. 

As far as switching sides depending on offensive formation.  It won't happen for a lot of reasons. 

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KDawg

KDawg

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For years we've said that we need a massive nose to control the middle of the LOS and free up the backers. Haslett/Shanahan/Allen/Whoever wouldn't do it when we were playing a 3-4 system that could have used it. Now, we're assuming that we're going to be playing primarily an under front, which negates the need for an anchor, with a guy who can actually clog up the LOS? Oy. If that's what happens, I'll be astonished.

 

We'll be seeing under fronts. For sure. And Knighton CAN 1-gap. But we have a ton of versatility in our defensive line for the first time since... well... years. You can bet your bottom dollar that Knighton should absolutely be two-gapping at times. And I wouldn't be surprised to see that 4-2 nickel look, either.

 

Kerrigan, Knighton, Hatcher, Riley (yeah, I'd like to see him play up on the LOS for rushing purposes)

 

Robinson, ? (We'll see during camp) at the ILB position.

 

But we'll see.

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