The Game Still Has To Be Played On The Field

[Rexx1240]

Posting because I'm growing a little frustrated constantly reading so much negativity. My apologies in advance for the long post.

 

Speaking primarily about the draft,what I notice most on here is that people seem to expect every single pick of every single round to have a 1st - 2nd round grade. Anything short of that is a "wasted pick". People don't understand that late round picks are late round picks for a reason. 

 

If you go back and look at scouting reports on somebody like Alfred Morris and the utter outrage that pick in the 6th round caused some on this board, it's laughable.

 

I don't even have to point out guys like Tom Brady, Jerry Rice, Deacon Jones, Shannon Sharpe, etc to prove my point. But I can point to some of our very own greats like Dexter Manley, Larry Brown, Mark Moseley, or even Brian Mitchell who were all late round picks and contributed in some form to the success of this franchise during their career here.

 

Just because players have great scouting reports by the so-called experts and are picked in the 1st round of the draft doesn't mean they will automatically lead a franchise to a SuperBowl (Heath Shuler). 

 

Mark Rypien or Joe Theismann weren't highly toted going into the draft which is why they were picked so late, but look what they did for this franchise...  and I won't act like I didn't absolutely love the Jason Campbell pick as a 1st rounder but what has he done for this franchise and where is he now??

 

I won't sit here and make it seem like there aren't guys like Peyton Manning or Darrell Green who get picked in the 1st round and go on to have brilliant nfl careers. But I will say to just keep in mind that we've definitely seen guys like JaMarcus Russell and Desmond Howard who just ended up being face palms for the league when it's all said and done. We've also seen guys like London Fletcher who doesn't even get drafted but goes down as one of the greats. We have to learn to stop being so overly critical of every little thing. If we know better, maybe we should be the one sitting in someone's front office making these decisions.

 

Bottom line is, no matter what the papers say, from what school a player comes, under what coach a guy played, or what the scouts/experts believe, THE GAME STILL HAS TO BE PLAYED ON THE FIELD. 

 

 

 

[planter]

Too early to whine. Need more data ....but...I'll be watching

1. The "trenches" . On offense, "pass pro" especially against the better NFL defenses. On D can we stuff the run w/o true NT, ILB and SS questions.

2. Coverage, coverage, coverage...Aging FS, corner questions unless Amerson emerges.

These are future concerns worth watching not necessarily real faults.

P.S. Skins will be better. RGIII will be better (and dump the brace). Our offense will be explosive and dominant - at times. #HTTR

[chipwhich]

Too many people on the board think we can make the super bowl every year and don't want to build a team to compete year after year.  This draft looks like a plan to compete in the out years.

[Darth Tater]

No one remembers the many draft misses and mistakes of Beathard in 1981 because the game was played on the field.

[MR2Drift]

You are mad that fans are negative towards a team that finished 3-13? People complain about giving kids awards for just participating yet some of our fans get mad when we criticize this team for an 3-13 record and over 20 years of inconsistency. Should we give Snyder and company a trophy  that says "At least we aren't the Texans" with a nice #31st place plaque? Criticism levied towards this team is justified, I feel bad for fans that can't accept that.

 

Regarding the draft, no one knows who will pan out not even the scouts. Everyone knows this, you are not saying anything new. We are here to discuss things despite the fact no one here is qualified to play QB, scout or coach at the pro level. Just roll with it and understand that there will be plenty of negativity levied towards a franchise that performs like this. Once this team starts winning then problem solved until then HTTR.

[HTTRDynasty]

Good post OP.  I'll also add that fans don't see the detailed injury reports that our staff gets.  They don't hear from the coaches of these schools in regards to a guy's character and work ethic.  There's usually a reason someone that we see put up good highlights on a site like draftbreakdown, that the media has a 1st or 2nd round grade on, drops to the 3rd-4th round.  They don't just ignore talented players, or what the media considers talented players, just for the hell of it.  It's usually because (if it's not due to scheme fit) these guys don't have the character, work ethic, health, intelligence etc. that we're looking for.  Their jobs are on the line, so of course they would take the guys we see as 1st or 2nd round picks if they thought they were the right fit.

 

I think we need to trust in Gruden and Allen to make the right decisions for this team going forward.  They seem like two pretty smart football guys to me, especially Gruden.  Just because they didn't reach for a safety in a draft without great safeties, or reach for an ILB in a draft with only 2 or 3 great ILBs (all gone before our pick), doesn't mean they are idiots who don't know what they're doing.

 

Gruden showed he has an eye for talent with the Bernard, Eifert, and Marvin Jones picks the last two years.  I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he knows what he's doing.

[SweetAlfred]

Argh.

[s0crates]

There were a few picks that made me raise my eyebrows when they happened. No safety? No middle linebacker? Why are we drafting positions of strength? I was puzzled.

I was glad we drafted some linemen, but I wondered what they were thinking on a few of the picks. So I read the interviews with Gruden, and he said what they were thinking. He said they were looking at guys from a special teams standpoint. A couple in particular he mentioned were outstanding on special teams.

That makes a lot of sense to me. Special teams was a barn fire last year. We obviously need to focus on that, yet I wasn't thinking that as the draft was happening. I think it gets to the OP's point about the limits of the fan's perspective.

[Zazzaro703]

There were a few picks that made me raise my eyebrows when they happened. No safety? No middle linebacker? Why are we drafting positions of strength? I was puzzled.

I was glad we drafted some linemen, but I wondered what they were thinking on a few of the picks. So I read the interviews with Gruden, and he said what they were thinking. He said they were looking at guys from a special teams standpoint. A couple in particular he mentioned were outstanding on special teams.

That makes a lot of sense to me. Special teams was a barn fire last year. We obviously need to focus on that, yet I wasn't thinking that as the draft was happening. I think it gets to the OP's point about the limits of the fan's perspective.

Sadly I don't think barn fire even comes close to covering what the special teams output was. When I heard Grudens press conference though I'm glad they are addressing special teams. If/When Griffin returns to form we really aren't that far off.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Posting because I'm growing a little frustrated constantly reading so much negativity. My apologies in advance for the long post.

.....

Has there really been 'so much negativity' on this draft?

I honestly thought I was in the minority in disliking it and most everyone loved it. Huh, nice to know I'm not alone I guess.

Hail.

[LD0506]

It's not and never has been about critique or dissenting opinion, it's the manner in which it gets expressed. Personally I would have gotten board and left this place long ago if everyone mirrored my own views, that would get boring very fast, but that is not the same thing as venting and spewing with a total disregard for facts or reality.

 

We've gone from ****ing about the draft to ****ing about ****ing about the draft. Off the top of my head (and not to dismiss any others) I hear DG and KDawg both expressing reservations about the draft, succinct and valid viewpoints that in no way fall into the supposed la-la-la Pollyannaish crowd, but who has called them out for negativity? No one, that's who, because both have carefully and clearly couched their posts as subjective and given a clear rationale for it.

 

On the other hand some have had borderline tantrums because the FO didn't target some particular player or position, no real supporting arguments but mostly just "Waaaaaaah, I didn't get the shiny toy the TV told me to want". Tough ****, don't blame others if they noticed you being an ass.

 

I agree that this board could act with more maturity and camaraderie even in the midst of disagreement, but seriously, when has that ever happened?

[TheGreatBuzz]

I know I'm no draft guru and I don't really pay attention to college football.  So, for the most part, I don't know much about the guys we draft every year.  What I do look at is their position.  And some of the positions we drafted made me raise my eyebrows.  But I also realize there is a reason I'm not paid to be in the war room. 

[TexasSkinsFan]

If the draftniks knew what they were talking about on here they wouldnt be on here talking, for every steal in the draft there were 32 teams not realizing the guys true potential. For all of the reaches in a draft that people are upset about taking truth is no one here knows what they think they know.

When a team doesnt have a first round pick nitpicking over who they should have taken is to be expected but see it for what it is. Just some Sallys talking out the sides of there mouth wishing they could run an NFL franchise. The reason half of the first round picks always bust out of the league is there are practice heroes and then there are real players and the draft as Ive always said is really nothing but a lottery where teams best bets are always to have more chances at the winning pick.

The Redskins did what they did and everyone should come to grips with that and accept it. I know thats impossible for some here who seem to have inflated egos and believe because they watch a 3 hour game on Saturday they know something that the guys who feed thier families on daily dont. I actually have a different take on the Monday Morning QBs and chuckle to myself that they would spend hours upon hours of studying an imperfect and uncontrollable thing like the draft. The only thing certain to me is that from the naysayers to the cheerleaders no one has it right.

I do wonder to myself if half of these people arent flipping cards for money like I do what is the point of it all? I study stats from the NFL because one of my favorite things to do in my spare time is to prospect on football autographed cards. It futures trading with a tanigble item that I like. I buy an autographed card of a guy that I like and have hopes for and if he does well its worth more money, Its an absolute horrible way to invest but as a hobby with realistic expectations of return possibilities its a lot of fun. I have more actually at risk then most people but its a rush and its fun. If these people were to be doing the same thing instead of complaining all the time they might actually see how wrong they are most of the time. In time every man has to come to grips with his own failures, if you truely think you know what you dont know then I say put your money where your mouth is and prove it. If your right you will be rewarded. If your wrong it might teach you something about your own human condition.

All in good fun and just my opinion

[SWFLSkins]

Mel Kiper Jr is on TV and never fields a team, why do people put so much faith in a guy on TV? or any of the other talking heads? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think it maybe has to do with society as a "hole" now, instant gratification personified. Gimme what I want, even when I don't know what I want. As you said there have been sound reasons from established members well presented and hard to disagree with. But even with their knowledge and use of common sense even they admit this is this teams draft and they are doing it their way. The results can't be fairly judged until two to three years down the road. 

[zoony]

Too early to defend this draft and too early to attack it. Both are foolish

The only thing we can read from this draft at this point in time is that most media outlets had us at the bottom. Not sure that matters

[SWFLSkins]

btw, there are at least five guys being challenged to up their games, and as for ST's how much did the kickoff have to do with field position in the FO's opinion? So to the FO the seventh was not a throw away pick but a pick that can challenge for a roster spot. 

 

http://es.redskins.com/topic/378852-tandlers-need-to-know-5-redskins-whose-roster-spots-are-in-danger-after-the-draft/

 

K Kai Forbath—It’s not unusual for a team to bring in competition for a kicker, even for one who has been pretty good over the past two seasons. But it is unusual to spend a draft pick on competition, even a seventh. Zach Hocker can consistently boot the ball into the end zone and if he has good accuracy on field goals Forbath could be in trouble.

[KDawg]

We've gone from ****ing about the draft to ****ing about ****ing about the draft. Off the top of my head (and not to dismiss any others) I hear DG and KDawg both expressing reservations about the draft, succinct and valid viewpoints that in no way fall into the supposed la-la-la Pollyannaish crowd, but who has called them out for negativity? No one, that's who, because both have carefully and clearly couched their posts as subjective and given a clear rationale for it.

 

 

Speaking for myself, and I've said this many times and I know you know what I'm saying LD, but to clarify:

 

My issue isn't with the who, it's with the when. I shouldn't say it's entirely not the who, because I think we could have made some other moves that would have worked out as well. Staying at 34 we could have had Bitonio, and there was a good chance we could have still gotten Murphy. I can't guarantee that, I don't know for sure. But I see it as a possibility. We wouldn't have Long, though, unless we tried to move up. 

 

Having said that, I'm not upset with Moses and Long coming to the 'Skins. I like Moses and Long seems like he's a good mauler (admittedly, I don't know much about him). Though I still wonder why we didn't have Gabe Jackson rated above him, but I also realize our guys get paid to study film for a reason. So I can't judge too much on that decision yet.

 

Murphy still baffles me a bit considering our OLBs are: Kerrigan, Orakpo, Jackson, Jenkins, Murphy and Robinson (who Gruden singled out in one of his interviews as having a great minicamp). We can't keep all of them.  

 

If Gruden was really impressed by Robinson, then that leaves some questions that could validate the selection in my eyes...

 

1) Is he not impressed with Jenkins? If you're planning for the future, you need a fifth guy in the OLB depth chart because you probably won't have Rak next year. If that's the case and he's not excited about Jenkins, the pick makes sense as a need choice.

 

2) Is he blowing smoke about Robinson for other purposes (trade, ect)? Same scenario, you need a fifth OLB, so I see why the move was made.

 

3) If the strategy was based on BPA, I don't see how Murphy was the BPA at that selection unless the pass rush weight was really ramped up for their board. That's NOT to say Murphy isn't a good player. But Greg Cosell pointed out that of Murphy's 15 sacks, he only had to actually beat an offensive player on two of them. And from I've seen, he's an athletic guy who knows the game, not overly explosive, but smart. I wouldn't have tabbed him as the BPA there. I'm also not a NFL GM or scout. So I can't be too negative about that.

 

In the grand scheme, I can't judge our draft now. And I won't. These guys all deserve a chance. They aren't responsible for our front office strategies. I absolutely hope all of these guys pan out, and I could see them doing so. I'm just not 100% sure we maximized our draft.

 

But I do believe in this new front office, and they deserve the benefit of the doubt. I think we've had a very good offseason and I think they had a plan and executed it in the draft to the best of their ability.

 

Too early to defend this draft and too early to attack it. Both are foolish

The only thing we can read from this draft at this point in time is that most media outlets had us at the bottom. Not sure that matters

 

Agree with every word.

[pjfootballer]

Why is everyone so concerned with HOW you get a sack? A sack is a sack. If a guy is constantly coming untouched, the scheme is working. I hope to see a lot if that this year. When's the last time we saw one if our guys come untouched? Who wants it to be hard for the players? You scheme and make it as easy as possible.

Forgot to say, great post by the OP.

[KDawg]

Why is everyone so concerned with HOW you get a sack? A sack is a sack. If a guy is constantly coming untouched, the scheme is working. I hope to see a lot if that this year. When's the last time we saw one if our guys come untouched? Who wants it to be hard for the players? You scheme and make it as easy as possible.

 

 

Is this a real question?

 

A free run isn't the same as beating an offensive player to get to a QB. One is schematic as you pointed out, against collegiate athletes. The majority of which won't be seen in an NFL uniform. The other is skill. Showing the skill to beat a collegiate athlete is a lot different than scheming against a collegiate team. There is a flash. There is substance. Running through an open hole and tackling a guy is something you or I could do. You don't see a lot of free runs at the QB in the NFL because the players are better, they are more experienced, and more athletic. When it happens, it's usually a huge mistake on someone's part.

 

Now, before people run with that as me knocking Murphy, I'm going to reiterate again: I think Murphy is athletic, smart and tough. I think he could develop into a good pass rusher. I also think he lacks explosion.

 

Every prospect has positive and negatives. It's okay to talk about them.

[planter]

Mel Kiper Jr is on TV and never fields a team, why do people put so much faith in a guy on TV? or any of the other talking heads?

"Who the hell is Mel Kiper?"

[Rexx1240]

You are mad that fans are negative towards a team that finished 3-13?..... Once this team starts winning then problem solved until then HTTR.

 

I wasn't talking about the constant hate this team receives for every single move it makes or doesn't make. Or for every little thing it does to doesn't do. I started my post but saying that I'm speaking primarily about the constant criticism surrounding the players we select in the drafts. No pick or player ever seems good enough unless they are highly rated on people's so-called draft boards. Then people complain that the player they felt the team should have taken is still on the board and someone else gets selected. Also, I disagree with your last statement because even if the team starts winning, there will still be constant criticism from those who, for some reason, act as if nothing's ever good enough when it comes to this team.

 

 

 

 

My issue isn't with the who, it's with the when. I shouldn't say it's entirely not the who, because I think we could have made some other moves that would have worked out as well.

 

I understand what you're saying but again, we just don't know the strategy here or the line of thinking that got put on the table inside that war room. You're probably one of the majority who felt we should have waited on Murphy and took Moses or someone else with 47. I feel like there could have been a good rationale behind that. If Murphy was the guy they wanted, maybe they didn't wanna take the chance to let him slide like they chanced with Moses. Maybe they had a good feeling that Moses would still be there and maybe another team was also targeting Murphy. We'll probably never know. But it's really know way to tell now what was the right or wrong move, that will take some time, because like I said, they still have to step on the field and play. Until that happens, draft position can be debated until hell freezes over.

 

Also to your other point about staying at 34 to get a better player. I agree 100% there BUT we really didn't have the luxury to do that. I mean, it was basically a no-brainer when that "genius" Jerry Jones agreed to that trade. Going into the draft with a very limited amount of picks as we did, there's not many people what would have passed on that trade.

[Riggo-toni]

There is no way the team will be able to keep both Kerrigan and Orakpo long term. Right now we're paying a premium for both of them because we want an extra year to evaluate each one's value for the franchise. We can afford to do this now only because RG3 is still on his rookie contract. No way is the team going to pump $20m into two LBs once they have to pay our QB $15m or more.

To say that we do not have the luxury of spending a 2nd on anyone who might not have an immediate impact because we are a 3-13 team is myopic at best. Because we're not a great team we must look at the medium to long term, since we're far more than just one player away from competing. This is a primary reason why the coach as GM models is usually a disaster -coaches are under far greater pressure to produce immediate results and will typically mortgage the future to win an extra game or two in the short run.

[KDawg]

I understand what you're saying but again, we just don't know the strategy here or the line of thinking that got put on the table inside that war room. You're probably one of the majority who felt we should have waited on Murphy and took Moses or someone else with 47. I feel like there could have been a good rationale behind that. If Murphy was the guy they wanted, maybe they didn't wanna take the chance to let him slide like they chanced with Moses. Maybe they had a good feeling that Moses would still be there and maybe another team was also targeting Murphy. We'll probably never know. But it's really know way to tell now what was the right or wrong move, that will take some time, because like I said, they still have to step on the field and play. Until that happens, draft position can be debated until hell freezes over.

 

 

 

Here is, word for word what I said:

 

3) If the strategy was based on BPA, I don't see how Murphy was the BPA at that selection unless the pass rush weight was really ramped up for their board. That's NOT to say Murphy isn't a good player. But Greg Cosell pointed out that of Murphy's 15 sacks, he only had to actually beat an offensive player on two of them. And from I've seen, he's an athletic guy who knows the game, not overly explosive, but smart. I wouldn't have tabbed him as the BPA there. I'm also not a NFL GM or scout. So I can't be too negative about that.

 

In the grand scheme, I can't judge our draft now. And I won't. These guys all deserve a chance. They aren't responsible for our front office strategies. I absolutely hope all of these guys pan out, and I could see them doing so. I'm just not 100% sure we maximized our draft.

 

But I do believe in this new front office, and they deserve the benefit of the doubt. I think we've had a very good offseason and I think they had a plan and executed it in the draft to the best of their ability

 

I said exactly the point you're trying to make. I'm not trying to stand up and yell from the mountain tops that we have a terrible FO. In fact, I've been the one championing the FO the whole offseason. One of the more prominent champions, as a matter of fact. I also don't think we should have taken Moses at 47. We got him later. But I do think we could have taken Bitonio at 34 and Murphy the next round. But again, that would leave us without Long (or Gabe Jackson).

 

Let me clarify this, in bold, underlined font: I'm fine with the actual players we took. I have reservations with the strategy, but that doesn't mean I know any better than anyone else. It's just a personal flavor thing. People can agree or disagree with me. No skin off my back. But I have continually said, including the post you quoted, that it's too early to judge this draft based on talent or maximizing our talent, and I have not done that.

 

 

Also to your other point about staying at 34 to get a better player. I agree 100% there BUT we really didn't have the luxury to do that. I mean, it was basically a no-brainer when that "genius" Jerry Jones agreed to that trade. Going into the draft with a very limited amount of picks as we did, there's not many people what would have passed on that trade.

 

Depends on where our FO had Bitonio in comparison to Moses/Murphy/Long/Jackson (I keep adding him in there for some reason)

 

If Bitonio was rated higher than all of them by a sound amount, pulling the trigger on him was the play. If he wasn't, and I suspect this is the case, then the trade was the right move in their eyes. I don't have to agree with it. They stuck to what they wanted to do and good for them if that's the case.

 

They obviously wanted a pass rusher. They obviously valued a pass rusher + guard + tackle more than a tackle + pass rusher (which I don't necessarily disagree with). They did what they wanted to do. Kudos to them. I have no ill will towards the draft.

 

Again, I just worry that we may not have maximized the draft. That's much different than thinking we bombed the draft.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

.....

Again, I just worry that we may not have maximized the draft. That's much different than thinking we bombed the draft.

Well that depends on who's posting that Coach.

You rightly get the respect and that will be taken on board.

I repeatedly say similar the past few days in response but because I post more controversial things in the main than yourself that go against the norm I'm just being negative.

That old ES double standard.

Hail.