gbear Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 There have been a lot of stories on this recently, but I didn't see it brought up here (sorry if I missed). http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/06/04/live-updates-sex-assault-hearing/#liveblog-entry-44586 Seriously? Gen. James Amos, the U.S. Marine Corps Commandant said,“Roughly 2 percent of our Marine population” is responsible for sexual assault in the ranks, meaning that most Marines are “keeping their honor clean.”Um...that's 1 in 50. There are a lot of marines, and I hope the numbers are far far better than what he is saying.I'd also like to voice more than a little disgust at a policy where one of the outcomes when the defendant is convicted results in only a discharge. Thanks for releasing the rapist into the general population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 It's disgraceful and abhorrent. Men may dominate the military but that is no excuse. Women have rights too and they should clearly be respected in military. Those transgressing on these rules should face utmost punishment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVAbrendan Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 If I were a woman, I'd want no place in the armed forces for fear of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 The system is broken. You have commanders who prosecute flirting as sexual harassment, and then others who claim that they need "concrete" proof that a rape has occurred to proceed towards punishment for "fear of ruining a soldiers career". I know a male LT who was basically black-balled out of the Army because he was "too 'playful' with female enlisted for our female CSM's liking. He was brought up on sexual harassment charges based on the "testimony" of 3 enlisted females who literally begged me to help them change the CSM's mind because their words were twisted out of context. He was basically told his contract was up when his contract was up. And I was stationed at Ft Drum when members of an infantry unit gang-raped a teenager in the barracks, and the commander helped sweep things under the rug so only Article 15's were the result and a change in barracks rules to prevent minors from entering without a parent. (Really? You needed a rape to tell you you needed this rule?) And I think every military man fears the "oh ****" girl, who gets hammered out of her mind with you (you are also hammered out of your mind) and wakes up the next day and regrets what she did so she claims she was raped while too drunk to prevent it. Two drunk adults acting a fool should not result in the end of ones freedom and loss of all benefits. There is a whole lot of testosterone running wild, these things are bound to happen. Not an excuse, just prosecute and educate. Honestly, it is a tough line to walk for commanders. I guess what I am saying is that stats sometimes lie. I don't think 1 in 50 men in uniform (or even Marines) are a sexual predator. It happens far too often, and I can't excuse that, but not all sexual assaults are created equal. Yet they are all reported on as equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 We should ban straight men from serving in the military. No more harrassment of women, and the uniforms will undergo a sparkling makeover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 We should ban straight men from serving in the military. No more harrassment of women, and the uniforms will undergo a sparkling makeover. the rape/sexual hassment of males in the military is more common http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/16/18301723-male-rape-survivors-tackle-military-assault-in-tough-guy-culture?lite maybe gays serving openly will help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 We should ban straight men from serving in the military. No more harrassment of women, and the uniforms will undergo a sparkling makeover. the rape/sexual hassment of males in the military is more common http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/16/18301723-male-rape-survivors-tackle-military-assault-in-tough-guy-culture?lite maybe gays serving openly will help More common because of the far greater numbers, but it affects far fewer percentage. 1.1% of men vs 6% of women. It really isn't even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Have the enlisted recruitment standards gotten easier or harder? Stayed the same? I seem to recall that a few years back, several of the forces were having a hard time making their goals. Also, I wonder what the stat breakdown between enlisted & officers shows. I suspect the frequence in which officers are abused (or reporting it) is quite low. But maybe I'm way off on that??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 We should ban straight men from serving in the military. No more harrassment of women, and the uniforms will undergo a sparkling makeover. the rape/sexual hassment of males in the military is more common http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/16/18301723-male-rape-survivors-tackle-military-assault-in-tough-guy-culture?lite maybe gays serving openly will help That article says sexual assault is endured by 13,900 out of 1.2 million men versus 12,100 out of 203,00 women. So while there may be a few more males assaulted, the rate is more than 5 times higher for women, (5.96%), than for men (1.16%). EDIT: Looks like Popeman beat me to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 is reporting it more common for one group than another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 is reporting it more common for one group than another? I get your point, but are you really going to claim that men are raped as frequently as women in the military? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renaissance Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Have the enlisted recruitment standards gotten easier or harder? Stayed the same? I seem to recall that a few years back, several of the forces were having a hard time making their goals. Also, I wonder what the stat breakdown between enlisted & officers shows. I suspect the frequence in which officers are abused (or reporting it) is quite low. But maybe I'm way off on that??? The standards haven't changed, but branches aren't really having trouble meeting their goals right now and as a result waivers for moral or medical issues are much harder to come by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Thanks for the update Ren - I've been out of that world for awhile now since my Dad retired a few years back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKINS@THEGOALLINE Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-GA) Attributes Military Sexual Assault To 'The Hormone Level Created By Nature' http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/04/saxby-chambliss-military-sexual-assault_n_3384286.html No kidding Sherlock!, but that doesn't give you the rite to sexually violate anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Obama, as Commander in Chief, can order that sexual assault/harassment/rape cases be removed from the chain of command, and a separate unit be created to investigate and procesute as necessary service members who violate military law. We don't need Congress to vote on legislation the will ultimately get watered down by the military hierarchy lobbying for the watering down. All members should be told that they should keep to themselves and not mess with other service members unless explicitly invited if such conduct is already not against military law (fraternization etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Obama, as Commander in Chief, can order that sexual assault/harassment/rape cases be removed from the chain of command, and a separate unit be created to investigate and procesute as necessary service members who violate military law. We don't need Congress to vote on legislation the will ultimately get watered down by the military hierarchy lobbying for the watering down. It doesn't matter who does the investigation. Once a soldier is investigated for sexual assault their career is basically over. Even if found not-guilty, CoC will look at them as less than desirable and refuse to promote. They will be screwed. This is what I meant when I said commanders were in a tough spot. If they investigate a soldier for rape, that soldiers done. If they don't, they are ignoring the victim. It is a very tough spot to be in, and handing that responsibility off to someone outside the CoC will not improve that tough call. A soldier investigated for rape is done. A soldier guilty of falsely accusing someone needs only PCS to be in good standing again. It is a very tough position no matter who is in charge. All members should be told that they should keep to themselves and not mess with other service members unless explicitly invited if such conduct is already not against military law (fraternization etc.). This is already communicated to everyone. It's not like the military is living in the 18th century. You make it sound like the military is made up of mentally challenged individuals and no one has a clue how civilized people live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 is reporting it more common for one group than another? I get your point, but are you really going to claim that men are raped as frequently as women in the military? Nope,just making sure this doesn't become a strictly male/female thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskins Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 "worked" a number of these cases from the prosecution side. This was one of the worst I can remember: http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-2526669.html I have nothing but respect for our men and women in the service. Unfortunately, the military sees a fair number of criminals in its ranks as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 "It doesn't matter who does the investigation. Once a soldier is investigated for sexual assault their career is basically over. Even if found not-guilty, CoC will look at them as less than desirable and refuse to promote. They will be screwed." I can testify to this. I was accused of sexual harrassment. And even thought I was cleared, it still took almost two years to get my career back on track. And that is just back to where it was. So I pretty much lost two years of my military career. And it wasn't like I got off on a technicality. Every witness agreed that she just made it up. And she made the claim literally five minutes after I wrote her up for fraternizing with a senior military member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 So I guess we just let military men keep raping and assaulting military women, right? I mean, why investigate and prosecute the guilty when we can just let rapists rape at will, right? Just so a few who are unjustly accused will not be investigated? If prosecution is taken out of the chain of command, then those unjustly accused will be investigated and found not guilty without it impacting one's career, while the rapists are caught and prosecuted. If you men keep turning a blind eye to rape prosecutions, it will continue. The problem is male violence and the victims are not the ones to make it stop. Men must make it stop. But as long as men can control women and children through violence including sexual violence, then it will continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Whoa!!! Slow down, spark plug. I didn't say anything like that. I was just pointing out that it is true how those unjustly accused are treated. And is it right that my career take that hit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 No, it's not right that your career took a hit. If there was an independent prosecution unit, you might not have endured what you did, the false accusation might have been found sooner, and your chain of command could have kept you on track once you were found innocent. It's the independent part that is important in the prosecution of crimes in the military, including rape and sexual assault. I'm guessing that there is a lot of misusing of the military justice system under the chain of command. I'm also guessing that there are a lot more sexual assaults/rapes than there are false accusations. And since gays and lesbians can now serve openly, I expect to see a lot less of sexual coercion of lesbians or women who are thought to be lesbians to have sex with men to prove that they aren't lesbians. I call that sexual assault/rape since lesbians don't have sex with men as a generality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Actually there is a independent third party for the investigation. But like almost any investigation, it takes time. During that time, the command knows that I have been accused and it is a case of guilty until proven innocent. And even once you get cleared, it is still on peoples mind. It takes time to come back from that. As an active duty member, I must say I am impressed almost to the point of being annoyed how much they have ramped up sexual assaut prevention training. They are doing quite a lot. But just like the real world, bad things will still happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 So I guess we just let military men keep raping and assaulting military women, right? I mean, why investigate and prosecute the guilty when we can just let rapists rape at will, right? Just so a few who are unjustly accused will not be investigated? If prosecution is taken out of the chain of command, then those unjustly accused will be investigated and found not guilty without it impacting one's career, while the rapists are caught and prosecuted. If you men keep turning a blind eye to rape prosecutions, it will continue. The problem is male violence and the victims are not the ones to make it stop. Men must make it stop. But as long as men can control women and children through violence including sexual violence, then it will continue. I think after you get your head out of your ass and actually do some research... you'll find that the Military actually prosecutes or gives due diligence to EVERY sexual assault report made. Unlike the civilians... who do FAR less and have even worse conviction rates. But I mean, why let facts get in the way of a good rant right? As far as investigations go, they are not done by the CoC, they are done by NCIS in the Navy and Marines, OSI (Office of Special Investigations) in the Air Force, and CID (Criminal Investigation Division) in the Army. All of whom are Federal Agents and participate in training with the FBI and other federal law enforcement agencies. So anything felony level is required to be investigated by these guys. You only see chains of command doing investigations in relation to stuff like, "Joe lost his night vision goggles after his parachute opened, is it his fault or our fault?" or stuff like "it's been reported that Sergeant Jones' wife was sleeping with the XO while he was deployed. Let's investigate it." Again, personal accountability and adultery... two more things the civilians do not prosecute. Now, I'll add that sexual assault within the military as a whole has not always been handled as well as it should've been. Certainly in the 1990s it was horrible. But the statement of us "letting it happen" is beyond embarrassing and shameful for you to make. At least it should be. Be forewarned, I am a member of the Army JAG Corps... so bring the thunder if you want to reply. I know what I am talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 If sexual assault and rape in the military was addressed with prosecution results, there wouldn't be hearing in Congress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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