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Ali vs. Tyson: Who Would Win?

skinsfan07

By skinsfan07
in The Tailgate

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AsiaticSkinsFan

AsiaticSkinsFan

Posted
Posted
People need to take into account the conditioning of fighters in Tysons prime as opposed to Ali's prime also.

The modern athlete is markedly more conditioned.

As an old head and someone who loves Ali (Grandmother was friends with his and Ray Robinson)...I think Tyson would take him.

Tyson was equally fast, Ali's reach is negated by Tyson's D and stocky stature. People forget Tyson has/had a 21 inch neck. That guy was a brick. I believe Tyson was stronger also.

i mean they more conditioned to an extent

they do not fight 15 years anymore for instance. A guy like Sugar Ray Robinson would fight every other week for instance.

---------- Post added September-24th-2012 at 08:03 PM ----------

All true, but although he faced some serious punchers, I don't know if he ever faced someone with the Thor-esque punch power (and humming velocity behind it) of Tyson. I also said that Ali would probably have to be caught off guard for it to happen, which isn't likely. Just saying though, I don't know if anyone could get up from a full on direct hit from that guy, and even if they did, they'd probably be so scrambled that it would only be a matter of seconds before Tyson rushed them and finished it off. Just thought I'd throw that in there since most of us are in agreement on who would win.

Earnie Shavers is considered the hardest puncher ever. Larry Holmes said that Earnie Shavers is the hardest puncher he has ever gone against. Holmes also fought Tyson.

---------- Post added September-24th-2012 at 08:04 PM ----------

Tyson was a brawler,

completely untrue.

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Dallsux

Dallsux

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Posted

completely untrue.

Uuuhh...ok. Tyson's objective was to knock his opponent out with every punch. He had anger issues & they often showed up in the ring, even in his prime. It's also why he never won a fight that went past 6 rounds. Because he was winded from trying to kill his opponent with every swing.

Tyson was a brawler, he had horrible boxing technique. He was incredibly powerful & could kill a moose if he hit him right, but his technique was just awful. He was a street fighter at heart.

I watched Tyson his whole career. He was in the sport of Boxing, but he was not a "boxer" perse, he was a brawler.

But I'm sure you have a rebutal for this argument.

---------- Post added September-24th-2012 at 08:34 PM ----------

This is false. Tyson was much more than a mere brawler. He had it all all. Great speed, great defense, footwork etc.

What exactly do you think I mean when I say "brawler"? I'm not talking about a guy who just goes in & windmills. He was incredibly fast, he's a short guy, so he has a low center of gravity which gave him that great agility to bob & weave the way he did. He was unbelievably fast doing that. And the way he would come up with an uppercut...whhooo...I wouldn't want to be caught by one of those, for sure.

But he was undisciplined & easily rattled. He wasn't going to outbox you, he was going to kill you. He was going to knock you out, period. He had no contingency plan if it didn't turn out that way. It never crossed his mind that he wasn't going to knock you out. So, he never planned to go the distance with anyone. It was just, "I'm gonna knock this guy out, end of story."

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BRAVEONAWARPATH

BRAVEONAWARPATH

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What exactly do you think I mean when I say "brawler"? I'm not talking about a guy who just goes in & windmills. He was incredibly fast, he's a short guy, so he has a low center of gravity which gave him that great agility to bob & weave the way he did. He was unbelievably fast doing that. And the way he would come up with an uppercut...whhooo...I wouldn't want to be caught by one of those, for sure.

But he was undisciplined & easily rattled. He wasn't going to outbox you, he was going to kill you. He was going to knock you out, period. He had no contingency plan if it didn't turn out that way. It never crossed his mind that he wasn't going to knock you out. So, he never planned to go the distance with anyone. It was just, "I'm gonna knock this guy out, end of story."

Ok. Now I understand where you're coming from and for the most part I agree.

Though I do think Tyson was much more disciplined earlier in his career than he gets credit for.

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nonniey

nonniey

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Tyson not in the top ten of heavyweights ? Now that just crazy.

Really? Here are some fighters that would easily beat the crap out of Tyson in his prime, and most of them could do it even if they were past their prime.

Lets start with the guy that actually did beat an "in his prime",Tyson - Holyfield. Others that were clearly superior and would have easily have defeated Tyson (in his prime) are Jack Johnson, Joe Louis, George Foreman (Tyson was afraid to fight him),Jack Dempsey, Ezzard Charles, Rocky Marciano, Lennox Lewis, Larry Holmes, Gene Tunney, Etc Etc.

Good Grief He lost to Douglas when he was 24 for gosh sake - Buster Dougles!!!! If one was a Good Boxer who could take a punch Tyson was in trouble.

Just google top 10 lists and post the one that has Tyson ranked the highest. You might find a few that he is actually on (Most won't have him ranked) but I bet you will be very hard pressed to find any where he is in the top 5 (wouldn't surprise me if you could find none).

So Ali versus Tyson?? That is a joke.

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Barney B

Barney B

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Back in Tyson's prime, I was talking regularly with local (H Street) boxing trainer James Peters, who'd been a welterweight prize fighter in the 50's himself.

Naturally, we got around to talking about Tyson, and I mentioned how he reminded me of Joe Frazier. "He's faster though," said J.P., and so I asked him how he thought Tyson would fare against Ali.

"Oh, Ali would knock him out," he said, as though it was as plain as day. Even in Tyson's prime, James had him pegged as a weak-minded fighter, and said a guy like that would never beat a brilliant ring tactician like Ali.

It was only later that I understood what JP was talking about. Ali beats Tyson for all the reasons outlined in this thread: A young Ali out-moves (and frustrates) Tyson, and an old Ali out-Holyfields him. Never mind his speed, Ali's accuracy is unparalleled, and he combined it with decent power.

None of this is to say that Tyson was not a great fighter in his day. Most experts rate him anywhere from #8 to #15 all-time, and for an apt summary of how he compared against the other great heavyweights, check out Monte Cox's (who rates Tyson higher than almost anyone else does) excellent insights here.

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AsiaticSkinsFan

AsiaticSkinsFan

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Uuuhh...ok. Tyson's objective was to knock his opponent out with every punch. He had anger issues & they often showed up in the ring, even in his prime. It's also why he never won a fight that went past 6 rounds. Because he was winded from trying to kill his opponent with every swing.

Tyson was a brawler, he had horrible boxing technique. He was incredibly powerful & could kill a moose if he hit him right, but his technique was just awful. He was a street fighter at heart.

I watched Tyson his whole career. He was in the sport of Boxing, but he was not a "boxer" perse, he was a brawler.

But I'm sure you have a rebutal for this argument.

---------- Post added September-24th-2012 at 08:34 PM ----------

What exactly do you think I mean when I say "brawler"? I'm not talking about a guy who just goes in & windmills. He was incredibly fast, he's a short guy, so he has a low center of gravity which gave him that great agility to bob & weave the way he did. He was unbelievably fast doing that. And the way he would come up with an uppercut...whhooo...I wouldn't want to be caught by one of those, for sure.

But he was undisciplined & easily rattled. He wasn't going to outbox you, he was going to kill you. He was going to knock you out, period. He had no contingency plan if it didn't turn out that way. It never crossed his mind that he wasn't going to knock you out. So, he never planned to go the distance with anyone. It was just, "I'm gonna knock this guy out, end of story."

I just dont see Tyson as a brawler, and I disagree about him having bad technique.

For me, a guy like Arturo Gatti was a brawler. Brawlers just want to be physical, push you around, punch, and dont worry about defensive technique. I say that not to say Tyson was a pure boxer, but he didnt want to go into slugfests either which brawlers do bceaues they cannot fight any other way.

But was a limited boxer? hell yea. Thats why I said he is overrated as a boxer and HW. I honestly believe Vitali Klitchsko would beat him, and Wladamir could beat him if he had the heart. I think they would beat Tyson easily. I also have a lot of concern about Tyson's heart and toughness.

In saying that, Tyson won a many fights going past the 6th round, I dont know where that myth came from.

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DM72

DM72

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Uuuhh...ok. Tyson's objective was to knock his opponent out with every punch. He had anger issues & they often showed up in the ring, even in his prime. It's also why he never won a fight that went past 6 rounds. Because he was winded from trying to kill his opponent with every swing.

I believe Ali would win, but Tyson did win fights past the 6th round.

---------- Post added September-24th-2012 at 10:40 PM ----------

IMO, Holyfield would have beaten Tyson in his prime and would have give Ali more problems than Mike Tyson would have.

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Chachie

Chachie

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With Lewis's reach and power, he would have given anybody problems, including Ali. That would have been a very intriguing match.

Lewis' reach and power were no longer or stronger than a young Forman's. Ali took Forman's very best (rope-a-dope) and then knocked him out. Lewis had a better jab than Forman but a weaker chin. I'm not sure Lennox would have beaten a young Larry Holmes, who is greatly underrated.

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JMS

JMS

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Tyson never fought a quality fighter in his entire career. When he came up the heavy weight division was a wasteland. Tyson fought a series of gang bangers, and wind up toys, and egg timers practiced to fall down after a minnute... Mitch Blood Green? Please, Marvus Frasier? Who did these guys ever fight? Seriously who did they fight before Tyson? Who did they fight after Tyson.. Nobody... They were invented by HBO in order to give Tyson something/someone to knock over.

Don't get me wrong, I loved Tyson. I remember going over to my buddies house ho had cable TV in the 80's and waiting around for the main event for hours only to see tyson kill his opponent in 20-30 seconds into the first round....

But to put him against Ali who was the Greatest of all time, whom I also saw fight is rediculous. To put them in perspective... Ali who was not in his prime, fought George Forman in his prime and crushed him so bad George gave up fighting for a decade. This is the same George Forman who was 45 years old and Tyson was ducking his fight. Tyson would be lucky to beat Larry Holmes in his prime, much less Ali.

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Dallsux

Dallsux

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I just dont see Tyson as a brawler, and I disagree about him having bad technique.

For me, a guy like Arturo Gatti was a brawler. Brawlers just want to be physical, push you around, punch, and dont worry about defensive technique. I say that not to say Tyson was a pure boxer, but he didnt want to go into slugfests either which brawlers do bceaues they cannot fight any other way.

But was a limited boxer? hell yea. Thats why I said he is overrated as a boxer and HW. I honestly believe Vitali Klitchsko would beat him, and Wladamir could beat him if he had the heart. I think they would beat Tyson easily. I also have a lot of concern about Tyson's heart and toughness.

Yeah, I can agree with that. I guess my idea of a brawler & yours are just different. Gatti was definitely a brawler. I just remember Tyson in that way.

In saying that, Tyson won a many fights going past the 6th round, I dont know where that myth came from.

Who did he beat past the 6th round? (I honestly don't remember, not being argumentative.)

---------- Post added September-24th-2012 at 10:58 PM ----------

Tyson never fought a quality fighter in his entire career. When he came up the heavy weight division was a wasteland. Tyson fought a series of gang bangers, and wind up toys, and egg timers practiced to fall down after a minnute... Mitch Blood Green? Please, Marvus Frasier? Who did these guys ever fight?

And see this is the other point I was going to make as well. I felt like, of all his fights, I never saw him fight the likes of a real good fighter...until he fought Holyfield. And Holyfield wiped the floor with him. He took everything Tyson threw at him, & gave it right back.

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JMS

JMS

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Holyfield wont quit, so I agree. I think Lennox would too.

Holyfield had a lot of heart.. but he didn't have a lot of ability for a heavy Weight. He started out professinally as a light heavy weight, and he had to come two weight classes to get to heavyweight. If he was fighting real heavyweights like Joe Frazier, Alli, Forman, or Ken Norton he would have gotten murdered. As it was he only handled a disinterested Mike Tyson after Robin Givens, Buster Douglas, and Prison (in that order) kicked the fight out of him.

Holyfield was a technically sound and procient fighter, which made him awsome in the 1990's heavyweight division. That allowed him to thrive against talented but rather unfit challengers like Mike Tyson late in his career. Problem is Ali was figthing and defeating real heavyweights who were profient boxers throughout their careers.

---------- Post added September-25th-2012 at 12:06 AM ----------

And see this is the other point I was going to make as well. I felt like, of all his fights, I never saw him fight the likes of a real good fighter...until he fought Holyfield. And Holyfield wiped the floor with him. He took everything Tyson threw at him, & gave it right back.

Holyfield was a good fighter, but he wasn't a very good heavyweight. He was a natural light heavyweight who realized the heavy weight division was vacant and went up two weight classes to take advantage of it. He made a mint, because the heavy weight division is where the money is.

But his assendency was always geared towards fighting Tyson late in his career. Tyson wouldn't fight the good heavyweights because Don King was afraid he would loose his meal ticket... And frankly Tyson didn't have to fight the best, cause he had more folks following him than the champion cause he was such a name. Holyfield realized Tyson was only taking fighters who were deficient in some way, and being a natural light heavyweight that made him a natural to get accepted to fight Tyson, that's how Holyfield got his shot after coming up 2 weight classes.

Only Holyfield beat him, well kinda ( two hard headbuts by holyfield hurt tyson badly in the first fight, and Tyson disqulified himself in the second )..... After the first fight, it became a grudge match, and holyfield got to fight him again. These two fights were the two most lucrative fights of Holyfields career. Holyfield would have fought him six more times if folks would have paid to see the shell of Tyson disqualify himself or get the fight stopped by the refferee that many more times.

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DM72

DM72

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Don't give me the "Mike Tyson didn't have it anymore" excuse. Tyson was actually favored in the first fight against Holyfield. Plus, the Robin Givens fiasco was years earlier. You look at Tyson in those fights, dude was RIPPED! He was definitely still a dangerous fighter.

And what is you talking about? Holyfield was a part of the second greatest trilogy in heavyweight history. Those fights with Bower were all classics.

Name one classic fight Mike Tyson was in.

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AsiaticSkinsFan

AsiaticSkinsFan

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Lewis' reach and power were no longer or stronger than a young Forman's. Ali took Forman's very best (rope-a-dope) and then knocked him out. Lewis had a better jab than Forman but a weaker chin. I'm not sure Lennox would have beaten a young Larry Holmes, who is greatly underrated.

Foreman didnt fight using his reach tho. Lennox's who plan was his reach, using that jab to keep a fighter back. Foreman would just goto the body and wail. Two different boxers.

---------- Post added September-25th-2012 at 12:18 AM ----------

Who did he beat past the 6th round? (I honestly don't remember, not being argumentative.)

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=00474&cat=boxer

Holyfield had a lot of heart.. but he didn't have a lot of ability for a heavy Weight. He started out professinally as a light heavy weight, and he had to come two weight classes to get to heavyweight. If he was fighting real heavyweights like Joe Frazier, Alli, Forman, or Ken Norton he would have gotten murdered. As it was he only handled a disinterested Mike Tyson after Robin Givens kicked the fight out of him.

Holyfield was a technically sound and procient fighter, that allowed him to thrive against talented but rather unfit challengers like Mike Tyson late in his career.

Problem is Ali was figthing and defeating real heavyweights who were procient boxers throughout his career.

I didnt say that Holyfield's heart made up for his talent, he had tremendous talent. He was a dirty and nasty fighter too.

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Chachie

Chachie

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Foreman didnt fight using his reach tho. Lennox's who plan was his reach, using that jab to keep a fighter back. Foreman would just goto the body and wail. Two different boxers.

You make a good point about Big George not using his reach as much as he could have, but trust me- Ali fought 5 or 6 Lennox Lewises over his career. :)

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