Welcome to the Commanders Jayden Daniels QB LSU

[redskinss]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Also that QB era the salaries weren't in crazy land.   they are now full drive crazy land.

For the time they were considered crazy land, his fully guaranteed contract had people taken way back at the time.

Obviously with inflation that doesn't seem like much anymore but at the time it was pretty much as surprising as the contracts we're seeing now and 5 years from now I'm sure Trevor Lawrence's contract won't seem all that bad.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, redskinss said:

 Didn't stop the falcons from giving him a massive contract that the Vikings who didn't have a quarterback to replace him with weren't willing to give him.

 

Yes different because he was younger the first time but still similar circumstances. 

 

It's VERY different.  Heck Hall of Famer Peyton Manning was available later in his career.  So was Joe Montana.  Heck granted super late but even Tom Brady.  Philip Rivers.  On and on.

 

Letting Kirk go in his prime in his 20s for nothing is a wild outlier that hasn't been repeated by anyone.  

 

Jay Gruden makes fun of it through this day and he lived though the episode.  It was wild. 

 

I used to think it was Bruce's masterpiece of incompetence.  But I think he topped himself with how he handled it with Trent. 

Edited June 15 by Skinsinparadise

[bird_1972]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's VERY different.  Heck Hall of Famer Peyton Manning was available later in his career.  So was Joe Montana.  Heck granted super late but even Tom Brady.  Philip Rivers.  On and on.

 

Letting Kirk go in his prime in his 20s for nothing is a wild outlier that hasn't been repeated by anyone.  

 

Jay Gruden makes fun of it through this day and he lived though the episode.  It was wild. 

 

I used to think it was Bruce's masterpiece of incompetence.  But I think he topped himself with how he handled it with Trent. 

 

I'm so glad we've closed the Dan Snyder chapter on this franchise. 

 

Let's burn it and spread the ashes among the four corners of the earth.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, redskinss said:

For the time they were considered crazy land, his fully guaranteed contract had people taken way back at the time.

Obviously with inflation that doesn't seem like much anymore but at the time it was pretty much as surprising as the contracts we're seeing now and 5 years from now I'm sure Trevor Lawrence's contract won't seem all that bad.

 

My point about the Eagles is they don't let it go to the brink.    I can't think of any NFL observor who doesn't make fun of how that was handled by this FO.  But I don't feel like relitigating that issue if you feel differently.

 

3 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

I'm so glad we've closed the Dan Snyder chapter on this franchise. 

 

Let's burn it and spread the ashes among the four corners of the earth.

 

It was the height of stupidity, incompetence and sleaze.  Feels so good that its over. 

Edited June 15 by Skinsinparadise

[RVAskins]

1 hour ago, bird_1972 said:

Let's burn it and spread the ashes among the four corners of the earth.

Are you a flat earther? Just kidding.

This is definitely not the same team and organization it was under the previous owner. I even refuse to say his name.

 

[bird_1972]

21 minutes ago, RVAskins said:

Are you a flat earther? Just kidding.

This is definitely not the same team and organization it was under the previous owner. I even refuse to say his name.

 

 

Yeah, I'm trying to skip over the posts/discussions that spend a lot of time and energy on the missteps of the last regime (Ron and even earlier). We've now excised the cancer, it's time to look forward to a healthier future.

[zCommander]

4 hours ago, redskinss said:

It's the kirk cousins dilemma, we were one of the first teams to not want to give a huge contract to a good not great quarterback. 

 

Oswiller contract screwed it up for us. We offered 16 mil but Kirk wanted what Oswiller got. 19 mil. Then after that it snowballed. Would have been smart to lock him up at 19 mil instead, 3 years contract. Franchise tagging him ended up costing more, I believe. 

[88Comrade2000]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Only way that QB salaries go down or QBs become more disposable, is if the QBs get more mobile and the run game becomes predominate again. 

 

Having more athletic TEs and more physical WRs will help that. Being able to have blockers 20 yards down field is huge. I think we're trying to build that type of offense, but also be able to hit guys that get behind the defense. If the short game (inside of 10 yards, run, screens, quick slants, etc) is really good, teams can't keep the Two High Shell. 

QBs will always get the big salaries but receivers are starting to also.  The elite we is now asking for $35 million a year and getting it.

[Going Commando]

The Viking tried to extend Kirk, and Atlanta got in trouble for tampering with him and other FAs they signed.  Minnesota did not want to let Kirk walk, the Falcons are desperate and just made him a godfather offer and there were family considerations that made Atlanta more desirable to Kirk.

 

The Jaguars also have zero doubt about Trevor Lawrence.  This wasn't a situation of them feeling trapped, they are 100% sold on Lawrence being their franchise.  I think NFL fans severely underestimate how good that dude is, and how bright Jacksonville's future can be in the near term.  He was balling last year and Jacksonville was competing with Baltimore and KC for the one seed until Lawrence hurt his ankle in the game against the Bengals.  Don't know if anyone else was watching that, but that injury was a season ender.  Lawrence played through it in order to keep Jacksonville in the playoffs hunt, but he was done and they lost the rest of their games.  Jacksonville isn't holding that against him like NFL fans seem to be doing, they knew they were absolutely dead in the water if he didn't play.  They also went out and got Mac Jones specifically to have a credible back up and not be in that situation again.

 

If Jayden Daniels has a stretch run and playoff win like Lawrence had in his second season, we would be talking about booking our tickets to Canton to see his eventual Hall of Fame induction ceremony.  Jacksonville loves Lawrence and is super happy they've got him.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[oraphus]

To offer a contrarian opinion … you can also overpay for QBs too early. Let’s look at Pederson who is notorious for paying QBs too early.

 First wentz huge contract, only to bench him one year later.

then Hurts .. who didn’t play well last year and rumblings that he has a long way to go.  
 

now Lawrence … with 2y left on his deal and  who got paid mostly on pedigree, as his performance so far has been average.  

[mistertim]

18 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

The Viking tried to extend Kirk, and Atlanta got in trouble for tampering with him and other FAs they signed.  Minnesota did not want to let Kirk walk, the Falcons are desperate and just made him a godfather offer and there were family considerations that made Atlanta more desirable to Kirk.

 

The Jaguars also have zero doubt about Trevor Lawrence.  This wasn't a situation of them feeling trapped, they are 100% sold on Lawrence being their franchise.  I think NFL fans severely underestimate how good that dude is, and how bright Jacksonville's future can be in the near term.  He was balling last year and Jacksonville was competing with Baltimore and KC for the one seed until Lawrence hurt his ankle in the game against the Bengals.  Don't know if anyone else was watching that, but that injury was a season ender.  Lawrence played through it in order to keep Jacksonville in the playoffs hunt, but he was done and they lost the rest of their games.  Jacksonville isn't holding that against him like NFL fans seem to be doing, they knew they were absolutely dead in the water if he didn't play.  They also went out and got Mac Jones specifically to have a credible back up and not be in that situation again.

 

If Jayden Daniels has a stretch run and playoff win like Lawrence had in his second season, we would be talking about booking our tickets to Canton to see his eventual Hall of Fame induction ceremony.  Jacksonville loves Lawrence and is super happy they've got him.

 

After 11 games, Lawrence had 12 TDs and 7 INTs before the Bengals game last season. How you see that as "balling" is a bit of a mystery.

 

Then again, weren't you the one who was absolutely 100% convinced at this time last year that Kenny Pickett would emerge as an elite top tier NFL QB in 2023?

[Going Commando]

12 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

After 11 games, Lawrence had 12 TDs and 7 INTs before the Bengals game last season. How you see that as "balling" is a bit of a mystery.

 

Then again, weren't you the one who was absolutely 100% convinced at this time last year that Kenny Pickett would emerge as an elite top tier NFL QB in 2023?

 

The Jags were 8-4 and a half game back from the Ravens and he had like an 88 PFF grade.  They had a slow start too, where the team was shuffling line combos to deal with Robinson's suspension.  They had won 7 of their previous 8 games and were looking at a stretch run where the only good team left on their schedule was Baltimore.  They had a realistic shot at the 2 seed until Lawrence went down.

 

No, I didn't think Pickett was going to be an elite QB last year.  I thought he would be better than Sam Howell.  I was wrong, but Sam wasn't good either.  We all get totally speculative takes wrong.  I'm not speculating about Lawrence.

[clskinsfan]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Letting Kirk go in his prime in his 20s for nothing is a wild outlier

In fairness I dont think they let him go. Kirk clearly didnt want to be here after not getting his deal in year 4. They wanted to keep him but after the second franchise tag that wasnt going to happen. 

26 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

After 11 games, Lawrence had 12 TDs and 7 INTs before the Bengals game last season. How you see that as "balling" is a bit of a mystery.

 

Then again, weren't you the one who was absolutely 100% convinced at this time last year that Kenny Pickett would emerge as an elite top tier NFL QB in 2023?

Pickett was probably me. I loved him coming out. And I think the change of scenery will help him as well. I wont be surprised if he pushes Hurts some after the season he had last year. 

[mistertim]

13 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

The Jags were 8-4 and a half game back from the Ravens and he had like an 88 PFF grade.  They had a slow start too, where the team was shuffling line combos to deal with Robinson's suspension.  They had won 7 of their previous 8 games and were looking at a stretch run where the only good team left on their schedule was Baltimore.  They had a realistic shot at the 2 seed until Lawrence went down.

 

No, I didn't think Pickett was going to be an elite QB last year.  I thought he would be better than Sam Howell.  I was wrong, but Sam wasn't good either.  We all get totally speculative takes wrong.  I'm not speculating about Lawrence.

 

So the answer is yes? You think that throwing 12 TDs to 7 INTs in 11 games is "balling"

 

He was all over the place, even before Cincy. He'd have games where he had a QBR of 14 or 15 and then games where he'd be at 80 or 90. 

 

I seriously doubt the Jags have no reservations whatsoever about making him the highest paid QB in the NFL with that sort of stat line. But I think they're hoping that once they get more pieces around him it will help and he'll get better. Plus they have no other real options.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 hours ago, redskinss said:

 

The Vikings this year with cousins part deux.

 

And it seems like some teams are pondering doing it more and more like the giants im sure pondered it and almost certainly wish they had done it but didn't. 

As these contracts get higher and higher I think we'll see more daniel Jones type quarterbacks being allowed to walk rather than give them 60 million per and cripple their ability to put the pieces around them that are even more necessary when you have an average quarterback.

Cousins is 36 and coming off an Achilles, and they only let him walk because he got $45M per from the Falcons.  If he didn’t have a suitor offering that massive bag, they absolutely bring him back for big money shy of what he got there.

 

Daniel Jones can’t flip Cousins gray steaks on the grill.  That’s one deal that I still find to be both unbelievable and glad they did it, being in our division and all.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

The Jags were 8-4 and a half game back from the Ravens and he had like an 88 PFF grade.  They had a slow start too, where the team was shuffling line combos to deal with Robinson's suspension.  They had won 7 of their previous 8 games and were looking at a stretch run where the only good team left on their schedule was Baltimore.  They had a realistic shot at the 2 seed until Lawrence went down.

 

No, I didn't think Pickett was going to be an elite QB last year.  I thought he would be better than Sam Howell.  I was wrong, but Sam wasn't good either.  We all get totally speculative takes wrong.  I'm not speculating about Lawrence.

 

Agree we all get speculation takes about QBs wrong.

 

On this topic though at a minimum @mistertim is close to being correct and he might actually be correct.  Because I recall debating you on this very point.  I recall you saying things beyond just Pickett is better than Howell.  You were blown away by his preseason.  And talked about him being a top 10 QB, I believe you used the word potentially elite too but I don't recall that for certain.  

 

You thought I was playing gotcha with you because you weren't that level high for Pickett before that draft and I recall me telling you back then, you are plenty bold enough pushing Pickett at that level at the time, so it didn't matter that you weren't that level high before the draft.  So no gotcha from me.  But lol I recall it in part because of you accusing me of playing gotcha.  i don't tend to play that game of gotcha as I told you back then. 

 

I don't expect people to recall all their predictions and takes.   I assume if they forget, its not intentionally.  I don't recall all my takes for example.  But I oddly have a good memory for takes where i debate people back and forth and i do recall that one with you on Pickett. 

Edited June 15 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, oraphus said:

To offer a contrarian opinion … you can also overpay for QBs too early. Let’s look at Pederson who is notorious for paying QBs too early.

 First wentz huge contract, only to bench him one year later.

then Hurts .. who didn’t play well last year and rumblings that he has a long way to go.  
 

now Lawrence … with 2y left on his deal and  who got paid mostly on pedigree, as his performance so far has been average.  

 

Maybe but in this context it was a mistake, they could have gotten by some reports getting Kirk at 16 million.  Even the 24 million which was what according to various reports they could have gotten him at the end was a bargain to what the Vikings paid.

 

It was a misstep.  And that's before even delving into the idea that they could have gotten a first rounder and change for him yet they decided to rent him for another year instead for a 3rd round comp which is basically a 4th rounder a year later.

 

10 out of 10 debacle for Bruce. 

 

Bruce sucked and it was another textbook case of why he sucked IMO.

Edited June 15 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

33 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

On this topic though at a minimum @mistertim is close to being correct and he might actually be correct.  Because I recall debating you on this very point.  I recall you saying things beyond just Pickett is better than Howell.  You were blown away by his preseason.  And talked about him being a top 10 QB, I believe you used the word potentially elite too but I don't recall that for certain.  

 

I did like Pickett, and I was high on the Steelers for sure.  I thought they were poised for a dominant season.  And I do remember being impressed with Pickett's preseason, and how sharp their offense was as a whole.  That was a total mirage in hindsight, they had one of the most dysfunctional offenses in the league under Canada.  But no, I did not think Pickett was an elite QB.  Tim was exaggerating my take to make a point at the cost of both nuance and accuracy.  It was an apples to oranges ad hominem argument when this debate is about Trevor Lawrence and the way the Jaguars view him, and his own take on Lawrence doesn't appear to be founded on much more than his TD-INT ratio.  I do remember our debates from last preseason about Pickett were about where he and Howell ranked among the young starters.

 

I'm not a gotcha poster either, and I stopped calling people out for getting things wrong.  I don't see that as being a productive conversation, and I don't spend a lot of bandwidth remembering who made what take.  I'm not sure what you and Tim are trying to prove now by attacking me over Pickett.  That I'm wrong about Trevor Lawrence?  That he's not good, that the Jaguars don't view him as a franchise QB?  At the very least, it's pretty obvious that they are sold on him given the contract they just gave him.  If they weren't sure what they had in him yet, they would have probably waited to sign him.  Beyond that, I definitely think people are way too low on him, and not just on this forum.  But there were arguments in the QB thread comparing him to Daniel Jones earlier in the off-season, and that take is just wildly off base.  Take my word for it or don't, but Lawrence is really good and the Jags love him.  I think he's an ascending star whose Q rating got crushed because he couldn't play through a season ending ankle injury down the stretch last season.  I've watched Lawrence quite a bit the past two seasons because I watch lots of Jaguars games, and I draft for them in the mock draft.

 

BTW QB money is what it is because the QBs are the single most essential and valuable part of the show.  They are massive cash cows who make far more money for their teams than they cost.  You can't really pay a franchise QB too much.

[Bifflog]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

BTW QB money is what it is because the QBs are the single most essential and valuable part of the show.  They are massive cash cows who make far more money for their teams than they cost.  You can't really pay a franchise QB too much.

 

Amen to this, but this trick is to avoid paying franchise QB money to pretenders and imposters, which is nearly as dire as the QB wilderness itself.

[Renegade7]

Soon...

 

 

 

 

[88Comrade2000]

Atlanta was so desperate to sign Kirk; they then draft his replacement in the first round.

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

I did like Pickett, and I was high on the Steelers for sure.  I thought they were poised for a dominant season.  And I do remember being impressed with Pickett's preseason, and how sharp their offense was as a whole.  That was a total mirage in hindsight, they had one of the most dysfunctional offenses in the league under Canada.  But no, I did not think Pickett was an elite QB.  Tim was exaggerating my take to make a point at the cost of both nuance and accuracy.  It was an apples to oranges ad hominem argument when this debate is about Trevor Lawrence and the way the Jaguars view him, and his own take on Lawrence doesn't appear to be founded on much more than his TD-INT ratio.  I do remember our debates from last preseason about Pickett were about where he and Howell ranked among the young starters.

 

 

The point of me bringing up Pickett is that he's another example of a QB who you were absolutely convinced was much better than he actually is. It's happened with other QBs as well. Lawrence was very hot and cold this past season in his play. He'd be great, then terrible, then great, then terrible. That's why I say I have to assume the Jags are hoping that they'll see more "great" than "terrible" in the future.

 

And despite what you seem to think, whether or not he can put up TDs does matter, especially when talking about making a guy the highest paid QB in the NFL. You appear to have decided to drift over to the "look at his record" side of that whole debate, which you haven't really done much before but you seem to now be doing for Lawrence. I assume because he doesn't have any impressive stats to talk about.

Edited June 16 by mistertim

[Koolblue13]

GC is one of the best posters on this board, especially about the draft, but dude you are awful at QB. Worse then me. You were a Haskins fan for christs sake.

[Going Commando]

57 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

GC is one of the best posters on this board, especially about the draft, but dude you are awful at QB. Worse then me. You were a Haskins fan for christs sake.

 

What did you think you're going to accomplish by making this post?