Welcome to the Commanders Jayden Daniels QB LSU

[philibusters]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Coming from a dude who really liked Maye a lot -- IMO Maye's arm strength was overplayed.  It's very good IMO but not special.   It's not Herbert level.  Allen level or even IMO Wentz level.

 

Milton on the other hand while is raw as heck is Josh Allen level or close enough.  So I feel a bit bad for Maye on that count.  Maye purely as for arm talent is not going to look special on that front throwing back to back with Milton especially.

 

IMO Maye's arm strength is overhyped by some of his bigger fans.  And I consider myself one of his bigger fans but am not on board with him having elite arm strength.  IMO Maye's superpower isn't arm strength but ability to layer throws on all levels of the field.

 

I agree.  My impression regarding arm strength and this year's prospects is

 

Tier 1

1.  Drake Maye

2.  Caleb Williams

3.  Michael Penix

 

Tier 2

4.  JJ McCarthy

5.  Jayden Daniels

6.  Bo Nix

 

I felt Maye, Williams, and Penix were all in the same ballpark.  By contrast Milton is probably a tier up in the truly elite category.

[Skinsinparadise]

On 5/13/2024 at 12:53 AM, mistertim said:

 

Wait, where did I use the words analytics and metrics? I was talking about overly weighing things that are fixable with practice (footwork, mechanics) vs focusing on traits and how that sort of thing led to plenty of people missing on Mahomes, Allen, and Herbert.

 

As far as Maye being nervous or uptight, I think you're mostly repeating what someone else on here has said recently (can't remember who). Never really heard anything like that from any people who analyzed him or scouted him online. From what I read they both come across as natural leaders with Daniels being more quiet and laid back and Maye being more vocal and extroverted.

 

The nervousness thought might be coming partly from me.

 

But i am not the one who orginiated the point.  Others have pointed it out about him in interviews, he has a nervous energy about him.  And on the field, his critics have pointed out he's not great in big moments in games or in big games overall.

 

So I speculated some on the point.  Speculation is the operative word.  I don't know.   Kirk likewise has a nervous energy about hm, especially early on in interviews, and seemed to press in big moments.  Does any of that happens with Maye?  I don't know.  But I don't rule it out.

 

I dimissed it initially about Maye blaming it on his supporting cast.  But after watching countless interviews of him, i wondered if the nervous energy you see in them has some seepage on that field.

 

Look, i wanted Maye.  So it wasn't a dealbreaker with me.  But for all of these QBs, Jayden too, I had disclaimers.  Can they work through this or that?  Or is this concern valid or not?  For Maye, i put the nervousness category as a question for me.  In other words, I don't know if its a problem or not.  But I am not dimissing it until I see it play out.

 

But as a dude, I think both Maye and Daniels are good dudes.  They both come off with a competitive streak that will serve them well IMO.

 

 

https://www.footballscout365.com/post/2024-nfl-draft-measuring-quarterback-clutch-ability-using-points-earned-per-play-on-3rd-and-4th-dow

2024 NFL Draft: Measuring Quarterback Clutch Ability Using Points Earned Per Play on 3rd and 4th Down:

7). Drake Maye (North Carolina)

 

PAA Per Play Rank: 69th nationally (0.34 PAA Per Play)

 

• Performance & Style Correlation: Despite a lower Points Above Average (PAA) per play (0.34), Drake Maye's role in the Tar Heel offense was evident from his tape. However, in key 3rd down and obvious pass situations, his high Boom% (34.9%, ranked 124th) and high Bust% (41.9%, ranked 90th) indicate raw talent in improvisation but also highlight a necessity for improvement as a passer in high-leverage situations

Edited May 14 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

I agree.  My impression regarding arm strength and this year's prospects is

 

Tier 1

1.  Drake Maye

2.  Caleb Williams

3.  Michael Penix

 

Tier 2

4.  JJ McCarthy

5.  Jayden Daniels

6.  Bo Nix

 

I felt Maye, Williams, and Penix were all in the same ballpark.  By contrast Milton is probably a tier up in the truly elite category.

 

I agree with the spirit of the point, I got a different ranking of their arm strength.

 

1.  Caleb Williams

2.  Michael Penix

3.  Drake Maye

 

Caleb and Penix close.  Penix is erratic but has a bazooka.  Maye IMO a clear half peg behind both of them.

 

4. Daniels

5. McCarthy

6.  Nix

 

I get the McCarthy over Daniels idea and some share that view.  Some don't.  Am in the don't category but I think its close.  McCarthy really has to step into his throws to sling it.  But when he does it wow, his arm strength is great in that context.  But off the back foot or a muddy pocket IMO Daniels to my eyes has a slight edge. Nix is sort of like McCarthy, when he steps into them he gets good velocity but when not, "meh".

[KDawg]

Using a little hindsight here, I feel better about Daniels than I originally did. But not because I didn't think he was a good player. 

 

And not because I am changing my opinion. Just that I re-evaluated the weight I had on each attribute.

 

As a prospect, he's much cleaner than Maye.

 

My only real/major concern was durability. And while I will not discount that trait, as I value it's one of the most important traits in all of athletics, I do think that his ability to remain uninjured thus far despite treating his body like it was in a 1980's commercial that demonstrated gnarly car crashes and he was the test dummy, should have up factored him a bit more.

 

I had major concerns with Maye's footwork and in proxy, his accuracy. I think I was the first one to kind of push that point in this thread.

 

Daniels is much cleaner.

 

I still worry, though, about the injury factor. But we drafted the cleaner prospect... Which does add some copium to my morning coffee. 

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 

I had major concerns with Maye's footwork and in proxy, his accuracy. I think I was the first one to kind of push that point in this thread.

 

Daniels is much cleaner.

 

I still worry, though, about the injury factor. But we drafted the cleaner prospect... Which does add some copium to my morning coffee. 

 

I recall you had one of the harsher takes on Maye on the draft thread months back and you explained in detail.  I recall you didn't like his accuracy, vision-processing and decision making, and thought he didn't handle pressure well.  lol, if you go back to around January on the draft thread, I think that was about that time because I recall it was early in the process and it became heated on the topic. 

 

You started as I did I recall preferring Daniels over Maye in the draft thread.  And then we both warmed up to Maye and switched.   But neither of us soured on Daniels aside from durability concerns.

 

But I'll give you props on the Maye front as to your concerns I gather matching this FO in all likelihood. It's clear Peters didn't even have Maye as his #2 QB as to options at #2 and preferred McCarthy over him based on multiple narratives -- so, I'd gather Peters had some serious concerns about Maye.

 

If we heard that its nip and tuck for Peters between Daniels and Maye, I'd feel differently about what they thought about the QBs.   But clearly, they didn't find it close.    Will see if they are right. 

 

But yeah right to the end, I was cool with either QB.  And would be jazzed with either one.  But I like how the narrative is unfolding thus far with Daniels.  He's coming off mature and hardworking.  I like the hardworking narrative especially.  Him working with his QB coach the day after the draft and diving into this team's playbook.  Calling-practicing the team's protections on his airplane ride going home from the facility.  According to Keim, they were impressed that in rookie camp, Daniels already had command of the playbook and was redirecting guys who were out of position, etc. 

 

Then all the stories about him being a football junkie which is clear in his interviews.  The stories about having LSU change the facility code so he can get in at 5 am to study and then ultimately dragging his WRs to watch film early with him, etc.   Great stuff.  Feels the opposite on that front of (RIP) Haskins. 

 

 

Edited May 14 by Skinsinparadise

[Ghost of]

3 hours ago, philibusters said:

 

I agree.  My impression regarding arm strength and this year's prospects is

 

Tier 1

1.  Drake Maye

2.  Caleb Williams

3.  Michael Penix

 

Tier 2

4.  JJ McCarthy

 

 

I felt Maye, Williams, and Penix were all in the same ballpark.  By contrast Milton is probably a tier up in the truly elite category.

While I understand your rankings, I'm not sure how Milton is in a tier up at 1mph faster than McCarthy.  Only thing I can think is that people watch tape and see a deep pass that is not quite lofted, not quite laser and don't understand arm strength. JJ can literally throw the ball like 30+ yards with no throwing base and doing a 360 in the air. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I get the McCarthy over Daniels idea and some share that view.  Some don't.  Am in the don't category but I think its close.  McCarthy really has to step into his throws to sling it.  But when he does it wow, his arm strength is great in that context.  But off the back foot or a muddy pocket IMO Daniels to my eyes has a slight edge. Nix is sort of like McCarthy, when he steps into them he gets good velocity but when not, "meh".

McCarthy throws lasers on the run, not sure I agree at all with this assessment. From the pocket, yeah. Maybe there's mechanical or mental thing there. But on the run or throwing without a base at all? Nah, disagree. It's why he was a 5 star recruit.

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, Ghost of said:

 

McCarthy throws lasers on the run, not sure I agree at all with this assessment. From the pocket, yeah. Maybe there's mechanical or mental thing there. But on the run or throwing without a base at all? Nah, disagree. It's why he was a 5 star recruit.

 

I like to say from my experiences going to training camp, nothing beats seeing these guys live to gauge arm strength so i always take opinions including my own with a grain of salt on the topic when I haven't seen it live.

 

McCarthy has a strong arm.  Some agree with that.  Some don't.  I am sort in in between the two takes but favor the strong arm argument.  IMO his arm strength is showcased when he puts his body into the ball.  When I've seen some throws off his back foot where he can't unleash his body the same way into the throw, he doesn't come off to my eyes with special arm strength in that context.   Decent but off the backfoot but I like his velocity when he either steps into his throws or pushes his upper body into them. 

 

Caleb for example still showcases his arm strength off his backfoot when he can't step into the throw or push his body into the ball.  But there is nothing wrong with QBs who know how to use their body to put mustard on the ball.  It's a good trait and IMO McCarthy has it and no doubt has a fastball.   

 

But heck its just my opinion.  It's cool to disagree of course.  But I spent way too much time watching all three of those QBs to not have a take and be willing to ride with it -- and I'll sink or swim with it.  

Edited May 14 by Skinsinparadise

[wit33]

 

As a fan, I selfishly prefer a QB whose focus is solely on success on the field, without too many distractions from hobbies or other interests. While this might not be the healthiest approach for the individual, it can allow them to channel all their energy, even tapping into the darker side of motivation, especially in the early stages of their career when they're striving to accumulate thousands of hours of experience.

 

Early signs suggest that Daniels doesn't have many interests beyond football, though this is purely speculative as I'm still getting to know him.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

40 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

As a fan, I selfishly prefer a QB whose focus is solely on success on the field, without too many distractions from hobbies or other interests. While this might not be the healthiest approach for the individual, it can allow them to channel all their energy, even tapping into the darker side of motivation, especially in the early stages of their career when they're striving to accumulate thousands of hours of experience.

 

Early signs suggest that Daniels doesn't have many interests beyond football, though this is purely speculative as I'm still getting to know him.

 

Reminds me of AGG, the WR we took years ago with a ton of hobbies and we wondered about his focus on football.

 

Maye seems a bit obssessed with all sports especially golf.  Jayden yeah comes off like a pure football alone guy.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[HigSkin]

 

[ThatNFLChick]

 

[HigSkin]

Love it...

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

30 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

welcome back "lolol"

 

its all love mate

[CommanderInTheRye]

Da boss wit' all da mumbo sauce!

 

Cc

 

 

 

Everybody's #1 source for hot takes, good old Hot Take Freddy in the house...

 

 

Gg

Gg

 

Edited May 14 by CommanderInTheRye

[spjunkies]

3 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

Da boss wit' all da mumbo sauce!

 

Cc

 

 

 

 

I can't help but wonder if the camera people ever feel weird just creeping on people while they're having a conversation. I get taking a quick photo but lingering for 30 seconds just feels odd 😋

[CommanderInTheRye]

Kingsbury on Daniels and the offense...

 

Bb

 

Coverage of today's rainy minicamp. Jayden seemed just as accurate and comfortable in the elements as he did in perfect conditions last week...

 

 

Hh

 

.

Edited May 14 by CommanderInTheRye

[CommanderInTheRye]

Zach Ertz on Daniels, "...(his) talent kind of jumps out at you...the arm talent is there, but also he really, really cares about this...he wants to be as good as he can possibly be...I'm really impressed..."

 

 

 

Hh

 

 

.

Edited May 14 by CommanderInTheRye

[Ghost of]

All great stuff to see and hear about Daniels.

[CommanderInTheRye]

Bullets in the rain from Daniels...

 

 

Jj

 

[FootballZombie]

Luv the weather exposure.

 

They could have just packed it in and worked inside the bubble but they let 'em all go muddin'.

Won't always have perfect conditions on gameday. Hopefully some our newbies can show out in slop.

 

 

 

Oh, and that hype drill looks even more dangerous w/ the addition of more players. lol

No one can convince me that its even remotely safe from that camera angle.

 

[srtman04]

1 hour ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

Da boss wit' all da mumbo sauce!

 

Cc

 

 

 

Everybody's #1 source for hot takes, good old Hot Take Freddy in the house...

 

 

Gg

Gg

 

 

Damn I so love that release from JD5......

[skinsfan66]

5 hours ago, Ghost of said:

While I understand your rankings, I'm not sure how Milton is in a tier up at 1mph faster than McCarthy.  Only thing I can think is that people watch tape and see a deep pass that is not quite lofted, not quite laser and don't understand arm strength. JJ can literally throw the ball like 30+ yards with no throwing base and doing a 360 in the air. 

 

 

McCarthy throws lasers on the run, not sure I agree at all with this assessment. From the pocket, yeah. Maybe there's mechanical or mental thing there. But on the run or throwing without a base at all? Nah, disagree. It's why he was a 5 star recruit.

 

My thoughts watching the combine McCarthy had a better arm then everybody throwing except for Milton stronger than Penix, also thought the QB we signed as a UDFA had the one of the weaker arm's so he is my least favorite rookie for that reason and was not that excited about the signing. Daniels, Caleb and Maye were not there to go toe to toe. 

[HvyHTTR]

3 hours ago, HigSkin said:

Love it...

 

 

 

McDouble! Can't wait to see them drive-thru a defense in the fall!

Edited May 14 by HvyHTTR