Per Rappaport, Jack Del Rio/ Vieselmeyer Fired. Ron will run defense for rest of Season

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

Switching over to defense.  Redskins had two opportunities to hire Vic Fangio as a defensive coordinator.  Instead Miami hired him as defensive coordinator so as we

watch them play Miami and lose let that fact sink in.  Also before Fangio went to Denver we could have tried to get him too.  There was probably at least one other

chance as well but I can't recall the exact circumstances.   Maybe Ron was worried that if he were ineffective then the owner would name Fangio Head Coach.  Fangio

did a great job with 49ers defense when they went to the Super Bowl.  He is another example of being a better coordinator than head coach.

 

We've not really had a HC who hired top defensive coordinators since Gibbs.

 

Shanny was famous in Denver for avoiding top names because he wanted to loom large on the unit.  Jay would hire scrubs at the spot.  Ron also here ditto -- in Carolina he had some good ones.

Edited November 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

Coaches “guaranteed” salaries aren’t paid out in a lump sum when they’re fired if they have multiple years left. They actually have to show they’re looking for coaching work in order to keep getting paid each year (unless their contract has no offsets, but that’s more common in college football than in the NFL). This came up when Kliff Kingsbury disappeared to Thailand for a while and had to come back to pretend to look for coaching work in order to keep getting his big Cardinals contract lol. 

Ok, you’re right.  But I think he got the lump sum difference because he got the OC position at Jax the year after he was fired.  
 

I’m pretty sure you get the difference, and if you get a job, I think you get it mostly at once.

 

He probably also got paid from Jax after they fired him also.

[RWJ]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

We've not really had a HC who hired top defensive coordinators since Gibbs.

 

Shanny was famous in Denver for avoiding top names because he wanted to loom large on the unit.  Jay would hire scrubs at the spot.  Ron also here ditto -- in Carolina he had some good ones.

Gibby a great HC but his GM was just as great if not greater than he was.  I give most of the credit to Bobby Beathard. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

44 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Gibby a great HC but his GM was just as great if not greater than he was.  I give most of the credit to Bobby Beathard. 

That’s silly.  Gibbs won 3 SBs with 3 QBs.  
 

Gibbs might be the best coach in American sports when you consider he’s in the HOF of 2 different sports.

 

Not to take anything away from Beathard.  
 

But without Gibbs there is nowhere near the success.  

[Redwards]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As I mentioned in another discussion, Jay is no fan of Rivera and Del Rio, that's clear in his podcasts appearances.

 

If my math is correct if Ron wins one more game for the rest of the season he will match Jay's record, winning percentage wise, if he loses out Jay ends up with a better record here.

 

And with Rivera pounding his chest about how he turned this franchise around, it makes it a bit comical.  Yes Rivera endured much and I respect him for that.  He was a nice guy working for a douche.  And I respect him for that, too.  But when he got here through today he likes to talk about turning this franchise around and how its so much better than it was before.  That's half true IMO.  Yes the building -- the business side is much classier.  That's great.  But as for the team-culture, its not much different at all and he's part of that.

 

IMO his legacy here for me and I noticed some fans are ruined because of how insufferable his rhetoric along with his work has been this season.  For me Jay comes off way more likeable now than Rivera.  And I never thought I'd think that. 

 

But for me the latest being Ron preaching again about turning around the culture and explaining now that a better culture isn't about winning but "doing things the right way".  Give me a break.  That to me is up there with winning off the field from Bruce.  Then we got the send me my Superbowl ring comment.  Him being defiant that this doesn't need to be a winning season even though its season 4 for him when he stressed before season 3 that he knew he had to win that year but then when he didn't he just shrugged it off by saying they made progress.   Acting like this is the youngest roster in the league when it is far from it.  

 

If cutlure is defined as being a nice guy in the sea of working for a sexiest douche.  Yes.  But otherwise he sets the tone for the team and if culture doesn't mean what it means for teams like the Ravens-Steelers which is winning than that seeps into the organization in a bad way.  Ditto the culture of excuse making and scapegoating  -- ala getting rid of Chase is and addition by subtraction, calling out Jamin, Forbes, etc.  It's always someone's fault.  Now he goes to the easiest well left and puts it on his buddy Dan Snyder.  

 

Ron to me ends his tenure in an insufferable track.  I was ready to say bye to Jay, too back then.  But Jay's personality at the end wasn't to me anywhere near as insufferable as Ron.

 

Between all of that.  The I looked at the anayltics myself as to Wentz.  The we were eliminated comment.  Him telling the national broadcasters at half time during the debacle against the Bears that he didn't say a word to the players.  Not challenging game changing plays that arguably cost them the Eagles game.  Botching the clock.  Looking stoically on the sidelines and doing nothing during games.  Getting swept by the Giants including by a no name backup who lives with his parents.  Ignoring the O line to basically "upgrade" the defense and that defense is dead last in points allowed. 

 

Ron is working himself into Jim Zorn territory.  He's not stupid so I am guessing he has some recognition of his legacy is being shot to hell this year and is now scrambiling to save it and has started with using his national media contacts to help him. 

I see all of this as true...and equally sad.  From a mere human perspective - taking out the coaching side of things - it's been an incredible letdown and just all-around sad turn of events in the way I see Rivera.  I can deal with any coach simply not "having it anymore" or just not being talented enough to get the job done.  I hold that against no one if the effort is sincere.

 

But Rivera has deviated in every way from his declarative statements in his inaugural press conference.  

 

The double talk right from the first season, the consistent moving of the goal posts and markers for true success, the statements in steadfast support of such a disgusting human being in Dan Snyder, and the absolute avalanche of excuses and throwing players under the bus is just inexcusable to me.  And though I never for a second believed Rivera (or any coach) under Snyder would get us to be a consistent winner, I never thought Rivera would be guilty of all of the above.  

 

I've lost so much respect for Rivera The Man, and that's a true disappointment.  

 

I couldn't stand Spurrier, but for me, there's been no Head Coach of this football team in my lifetime that I've despised more than Ron Rivera.  I truly wish that wasn't the case and I take no pleasure in that statement.  It leaves me truly sad.  

Edited November 25, 2023 by Redwards

[RVAskins]

If Jay's looking for a coaching job perhaps Orange Lutheran, Valor Christian, or Houston Baptist are hiring.

[PolarExpress]

16 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

Two is always better than one. 

I can’t wait to hear his double ramblings after the games.  

[@DCGoldPants]

has any player on this team, around the league or even retired, posted anything anywhere in support of JDR since yesterday?

[NoVaSkins21]

Just now, @DCGoldPants said:

has any player on this team, around the league or even retired, posted anything anywhere in support of JDR since yesterday?

Speaks volumes right there about his reputation amongst players, past and present

[skinzplay]

21 minutes ago, @DCGoldPants said:

has any player on this team, around the league or even retired, posted anything anywhere in support of JDR since yesterday?

 

All-encompassing from Jon Allen:

 

"At the end of the day in the NFL, you have to do your job," Allen said. "And as players, we're not getting the job done, as coaches we're not getting the job done. So I don't think anyone's getting the job done."

[dyst]

I think it’s important to remember that it’s nice to “want” big name defensive coordinators, but this place was/is a mess and hiring guys like that who may have been coveted by other teams may just not have been possible.  

[Conn]

4 minutes ago, dyst said:

I think it’s important to remember that it’s nice to “want” big name defensive coordinators, but this place was/is a mess and hiring guys like that who may have been coveted by other teams may just not have been possible.  

The one we know for sure is that Gruden hired Joe Barry over Wade Phillips (who went on to win a SB with Denver). We know this because he was in disbelief and spoke about it (his son was on staff with Gruden). Gruden didn’t even take the interview seriously, hardly asked him anything, didn’t have tape prepared to watch together. Phillips was bewildered and rightly talked **** about it afterwards. 

[SoCalSkins]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

That’s silly.  Gibbs won 3 SBs with 3 QBs.  
 

Gibbs might be the best coach in American sports when you consider he’s in the HOF of 2 different sports.

 

Not to take anything away from Beathard.  
 

But without Gibbs there is nowhere near the success.  

You need both. Gibbs talked himself into Jason Campbell and made the trade 2 days before the draft. It was like Ron being in love with Forbes. He didn’t even consider how the board would play out. A legit GM would have drafted Aaron Rodgers instead of Carlos Rogers with the first pick and taken BPA with the Jason Campbell pick. Aaron Rodgers in Al Saunders offense under Gibbs with Gregg Williams D would have added a Lombardi or three to the case. You could make an argument to rename it after Gibbs at that point. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

24 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

You need both. Gibbs talked himself into Jason Campbell and made the trade 2 days before the draft. It was like Ron being in love with Forbes. He didn’t even consider how the board would play out. A legit GM would have drafted Aaron Rodgers instead of Carlos Rogers with the first pick and taken BPA with the Jason Campbell pick. Aaron Rodgers in Al Saunders offense under Gibbs with Gregg Williams D would have added a Lombardi or three to the case. You could make an argument to rename it after Gibbs at that point. 

Agree.  Both are exceedingly important.

 

Gibbs needed a strong and legitimate GM to work with in the second stint.  Vinny wasn’t that guy.  
 

Coaches don’t make good GMs. 

My philosophical difference is I don’t like one selecting the other because I see them as equal and should work together.  
 

That, at least on this board, is a dissenting opinion. 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Voice_of_Reason

[Bunny Kelly]

Hard to compare Gruden the coach with Ron the coach, because Gruden had a proper GM for large chunk of his era while Ron had Ron the GM!!

[SoCalSkins]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Agree.  Both are exceedingly important.

 

Gibbs needed a strong and legitimate GM to work with in the second stint.  Vinny wasn’t that guy.  
 

Coaches don’t make good GMs. 

My philosophical difference is I don’t like one selecting the other because I see them as equal and should work together.  
 

That, at least on this board, is a dissenting opinion. 

Beathard hired Gibbs then as the super bowls added up the power dynamic shifted. No way Beathard would have drafted Desmond Howard that high with the posse and Brian Mitchell already on the roster. Casserly caved in unlike Bobby. 
 

I’m not sure what the right dynamic is. I definitely don’t want the GM controlling who plays like the Jets GM gets to do. The GM there dictates who the starting QB is. I think the coach should get to field the 53 man roster out of the players the GM gives him and he gets to decide who plays.

Also if the GM doesn’t hire the coach the involvement from ownership is much bigger. I think Harris would make sound reasonable decisions on his own but Magic and his 240 million dollar investment has a much bigger voice than his 4% share. Same with Ein and a couple others.  

 

It’s all honeymoon now but if their decisions go sideways once they blow it up there will inevitably be bickering and demand for changes and different levels of patience from the ownership group. Not sure what the right solution is. Some of these guys are plugged into social media and this is the most toxic fanbase in all of sports when things are not going right immediately. the pressure on them will be massive.
 

We basically have to hope Howell is the man and everything else can fill in around him. Without a QB doesn’t matter who the coach or GM is. 
 

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by SoCalSkins

[Pwyl]

I think vor is both right and wrong.  If I was setting up the org structure, there would be a gm who has final say over everything on the football side of the business, and then a head coach and a head of player personnel who are peers and report to the gm. 

[clskinsfan]

5 hours ago, veteranskinsfan said:

Switching over to defense.  Redskins had two opportunities to hire Vic Fangio as a defensive coordinator.  Instead Miami hired him as defensive coordinator so as we

watch them play Miami and lose let that fact sink in.  Also before Fangio went to Denver we could have tried to get him too.  There was probably at least one other

chance as well but I can't recall the exact circumstances.   Maybe Ron was worried that if he were ineffective then the owner would name Fangio Head Coach.  Fangio

did a great job with 49ers defense when they went to the Super Bowl.  He is another example of being a better coordinator than head coach.

They also could have hired Wade Phillips numerous times and wouldnt even talk to him. Phillips went on to build the Super Bowl winning defense that embarrassed Cam Newton/Ron Rivera in the Super Bowl. And then to the Rams where he allowed Tom Brady 13 points and lost 13-3 in the Super Bowl. Mcveigh's vaunted offense was awful in that game. Phillips is probably one of the most underrated defensive minds of our lifetime. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

11 minutes ago, Pwyl said:

I think vor is both right and wrong.  If I was setting up the org structure, there would be a gm who has final say over everything on the football side of the business, and then a head coach and a head of player personnel who are peers and report to the gm. 

To me this is potato/potato (you have to say the second one with a British accent).

 

The setup I like is a President of Football Operations, and the GM and HC work for that person.  
 

You switched it to the GM is the head of football ops, and then the HC and head of player personnel works for them.

 

It’s essentially the same with different titles.  
 

My key is I don’t like the guy who’s picking the players to be the person who the coach works for.  Just like I don’t like the person picking the players working for the coach.  
 

I want the player picker and the coach on the same level of the org chart.  If one fails, they both fail.  If one succeeds, they both succeed.  
 

Their fates are intertwined.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

They also could have hired Wade Phillips numerous times and wouldnt even talk to him. Phillips went on to build the Super Bowl winning defense that embarrassed Cam Newton/Ron Rivera in the Super Bowl. And then to the Rams where he allowed Tom Brady 13 points and lost 13-3 in the Super Bowl. Mcveigh's vaunted offense was awful in that game. Phillips is probably one of the most underrated defensive minds of our lifetime. 

Bill gave McVay the “welcome to the big leagues kid” lesson in that superbowl.  
 

Bill hasn’t forgotten how to coach defense.  
 

The fact Jay passed over Phillips for Joe Barry is the #1 reason I think he’s a football idiot and absolutely has no credibility about anything at all. 
 

McVay was a smarter coach before he was hired than Jay ever was.  He said “yeah, let me give the defense to a guy who knows stuff so I don’t have to worry about it” before he was hired. Jay replaced Haz with Barry.  One guy has a ring and the other never won 10 games in a season. 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Voice_of_Reason

[clskinsfan]

10 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Bill hasn’t forgotten how to coach defense.

I know a lot of people here want nothing to do with Bill as HC. And I am not really in on it either as I want a real GM here. But you are right about defense under that guy. If you could get him with an up and coming OC that is special you would have one hell of a duo there. 

[Koolblue13]

It's such a good feeling to see the final turds left from the Snyder era swirl down the hole and disappear.

 

 

[NickyJ]

1 hour ago, Bunny Kelly said:

Hard to compare Gruden the coach with Ron the coach, because Gruden had a proper GM for large chunk of his era while Ron had Ron the GM!!

I am one of the bigger Gruden haters here, but you have to be joking to call Bruce Allen a proper GM.

[FootballZombie]

16 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

It's such a good feeling to see the final turds left from the Snyder era swirl down the hole and disappear.

 

With all the plumbing issues at Fed Ex I can never associate "good feelings" and flushing things at the stadium.

 

Gotta pray they stay down.

 

We pay the price when the poo pipes blow.

 

/s

[Dark Acre]

5 hours ago, RWJ said:

Gibby a great HC but his GM was just as great if not greater than he was.  I give most of the credit to Bobby Beathard. 

Gibby was smart enough to use John Riggins properly - as a lead runner who could block for himself.  George Allen mishandled Riggo so badly Riggo told Allen to give him #60 since all he did was block.  Pardee was a little better, but the number of touches other RBs got was criminal.  All you have to do is watch that huge run he had against Dallas in 1979 - outrunning the secondary - to realize that the only reason to give the ball to any other RB is b/c Riggo's getting some oxygen on the sidelines.