Hamas Attacks Against Israel

[TradeTheBeal!]

[Fergasun]

They keep arguing over a ceasefire, but whats being proposed is really "3 month pause and then we go back to slaughtering the Palestines".  

 

Is it wrong for me to think, this is probably what America did to the native Americans?

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

26 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

They keep arguing over a ceasefire, but whats being proposed is really "3 month pause and then we go back to slaughtering the Palestines".  

 

Is it wrong for me to think, this is probably what America did to the native Americans?

 

All Hamas has to do is surrender.

[TradeTheBeal!]

28 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

All Hamas has to do is surrender.

That would probably save thousands of Palestinian lives.

[tshile]

5 hours ago, Fergasun said:

Is it wrong for me to think, this is probably what America did to the native Americans?

 

Pretty sure we just massacred them 

[TheGreatBuzz]

12 minutes ago, tshile said:

Pretty sure we just massacred them 

 

You need to read a book!!

 

 

We raped and tortured them first.

[Larry]

8 hours ago, Fergasun said:

They keep arguing over a ceasefire, but whats being proposed is really "3 month pause and then we go back to slaughtering the Palestines".  

 

"I put down my sword, you put down your rock, and we try to kill each other like civilized people?"  

[PeterMP]

On 2/16/2024 at 1:25 PM, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

All Hamas has to do is surrender.

 

Do you believe that if Hamas surrenders that Israeli settlers, government, and military will stop expanding Israeli settlements including violently and lethally taking land from Palestinians?

 

This seems akin to somebody claiming all that Israel has to do to stop people from killing Israelis is to withdraw to their UN mandated borders and come in compliance with all of the UN resolutions that they are currently in violation of.

Edited February 17 by PeterMP

[PeterMP]

US history is full of cases where the US government in good faith agreed to a treaty with Native Americans.  Then after some time for some reason settlers decided they want the land, the US government doesn't feel like fighting with its own citizens (or has actually decided they want the treaty broken because they want the land), the settlers take land from the Native Americans, the Native American attack the settlers back, the settlers scream for the US government to get involved (the Native Americans have violated the treaty), and the US army comes in and kills a bunch of Native Americans.

 

It just wasn't constant kill Native Americans.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

1 hour ago, PeterMP said:

 

Do you believe that if Hamas surrenders that Israeli settlers, government, and military will stop expanding Israeli settlements including violently and lethally taking land from Palestinians?

.

 

Would Hamas surrendering solve all the problems between Israel and Palestine? No it wouldn’t. I never claimed it would.

 

It would however save thousands of Palestinian lives and prevent whatever humanitarian crisis they are yelling about. If Hamas gave two cents about Palestinians.

9 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

US history is full of cases where the US government in good faith agreed to a treaty with Native Americans.  Then after some time for some reason settlers decided they want the land, the US government doesn't feel like fighting with its own citizens (or has actually decided they want the treaty broken because they want the land), the settlers take land from the Native Americans, the Native American attack the settlers back, the settlers scream for the US government to get involved (the Native Americans have violated the treaty), and the US army comes in and kills a bunch of Native Americans.

 

It just wasn't constant kill Native Americans.

This isnt what happened between Palestinians and Israel and if this is what you believe you are being disingenuous and ignorant.

[PeterMP]

1 hour ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

Would Hamas surrendering solve all the problems between Israel and Palestine? No it wouldn’t. I never claimed it would.

 

It would however save thousands of Palestinian lives and prevent whatever humanitarian crisis they are yelling about. If Hamas gave two cents about Palestinians.

This isnt what happened between Palestinians and Israel and if this is what you believe you are being disingenuous and ignorant.

 

The post you responded to was that there would be a cease fire for 3 months, and then they'd go back to killing Palestinians.  I'll acknowledge that it is likely that Palestinians would go back to killing Israeli's too, but your post made it sound like a Hamas surrender would end the killing of Palestinians.  I'd argue the post points stands.  If there is a cease fire, in 3 months they are likely back to killing one another unless something dramatic changes (e.g. Israel with US supports commits to proactively help the states around it become strong and viable states, but even that process will take more than 3 months).  If you want to argue/add that there will be some Israeli deaths from Palestinians that I'd agree with.  But I think suggesting that the key to no Palestinian deaths in 3 months is the surrender of Hamas is incorrect.

 

I'm pretty sure that I've made this point in the past.  The majority of Palestinians support Hamas.  It is pretty condescending to argue that people don't know what is good for them.  People commonly will sacrifice in the present, including lives, if they think there will be an impact in the future.  Maybe they're wrong.  Maybe they're not.  Similarly, the Ukrainians have decided that Ukrainian deaths are worth the prospect of a better future.  Using similar logic as yours, one could argue that if Zelensiky cared about Ukrainians he'd have his government surrender (and allow the Russians to install a government more to their liking).  I'd also object to that argument.

 

Why would you think that I think that's what happened?  I was making a general statement about what happened.  I didn't mention Israel or Palestine.  And there are clear differences e.g. to my knowledge, the Israelis have never signed an agreement with the Palestinians that offered them a concrete piece of territory. 

 

Though there are similarities in that the killing of the Native Americans wasn't a a linear process that was just the deaths of Native Americans with continual loss of land.  There were periods where there were efforts to achieve peace.  There were even significant battles that the Native Americans won where it seemed like the Native Americans might be able to hold the line (early on with British support).

Edited February 18 by PeterMP

[CousinsCowgirl84]

1 hour ago, PeterMP said:

 

The post you responded to was that there would be a cease fire for 3 months, and then they'd go back to killing Palestinians.  I'll acknowledge that it is likely that Palestinians would go back to killing Israeli's too, but your post made it sound like a Hamas surrender would end the killing of Palestinians. 

 

 

It would for the foreseeable future. You pretend like Hamas is a victim.  A complete surrender of hamas would solve the problem for much much longer than three months. A complete surrender of Hamas would save a lot of lives because Israel would not have to resume the war.

 

There wouldn’t be a ceasefire, it would be the end of the war. 

 

 

[PeterMP]

13 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

 

It would for the foreseeable future. You pretend like Hamas is a victim.  A complete surrender of hamas would solve the problem for much much longer than three months. A complete surrender of Hamas would save a lot of lives because Israel would not have to resume the war.

 

There wouldn’t be a ceasefire, it would be the end of the war. 

 

 

 

I don't pretend like Hamas is a victim.  I just don't pretend like Israel hasn't had opportunities to make other choices that would have been more likely to result in peace and that the Zionist are completely innocent.  Or that anger at the Israelis by Palestinians is completely focused through or manifested by Hamas.  Or that Hamas is operating somehow independently of Palestinian attitudes/beliefs.

 

I recognize the problem is much more systemic.  Where you seem to pretend it is only isolated to Hamas.

 

Hamas is not the only militant organization among the Palestinians.  If Hamas surrendered and then next month some Israeli settlers killed some Palestinians or burned down a Mosque, there is every reason to believe some other Palestinian organization would respond (e.g. the Muslim Brotherhood) with violence resulting in the deaths of Jews/Israelis, and the Israeli government would respond by killing more Palestinians.  (And yes even if Israelis settlers don't kill Palestinians or burn down a Mosque it is possible that some organization like the Muslim Brotherhood will kill Israelis and the Israeli government will kill more Palestinians, but that just makes it even more foreseeable).

 

That sort of thing is completely foreseeable.  If you can't foresee that, then you don't know much about the history there, don't have much of an imagination, or privy to some information I'm not.

 

Given the current attitudes/approaches on both sides even if Hamas surrendered tomorrow, there are plethora of ways things that result Israel is killing more Palestinians in 3 months.

 

Do you really not recognize that?

 

If Hamas surrenders and Israelis/Jews violently take land from Palestinians, then there will likely be a violent response from Palestinians.  And Israel will likely kill Palestinians as a result.  

 

Is there a reason, you don't think that will happens if Hamas surrenders?  Are Israel/Jews going to stop using violence to take land that Palestinians are living on if Hamas surrenders?

Edited February 18 by PeterMP

[Cooked Crack]

https://x.com/jengriffinfnc/status/1761910006272684293?s=46&t=Fu_YzNsYgmHF43zgXahLRA

 

Quote

U.S. Air Force tells Fox an American airman was involved in the self immolation act in front of the Israeli Embassy today - a protest against what he called “genocide” in Gaza. Details from eyewitness below.

 

Going to not embed but the link shows a man on fire

[Captain Wiggles]

He's apparently still alive but in critical condition. 🥺

[Renegade7]

White House reverses West Bank policy, calling Israeli settlements illegal

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/02/23/israel-west-bank-settlements-illegal/

 

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-war-gaza-strip-buffer-zone-72a782ddd532a4331b660a735e36acb0

[ixcuincle]

 

 

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Rest in Peace, guy who makes questionable life choices.

[Cooked Crack]

 

[Destino]

On 2/16/2024 at 12:59 PM, Fergasun said:

They keep arguing over a ceasefire, but whats being proposed is really "3 month pause and then we go back to slaughtering the Palestines".  

 

Is it wrong for me to think, this is probably what America did to the native Americans?

What America did, along the European powers before them, was much worse. And, sadly, much more thorough. Consider the percentage of the US population that is indigenous today, in the land where their cultures originate. It’s more than numbers though because the US also engaged in cultural genocide. Their children were stolen and forced into cruel schools hoping to wipe out their culture entirely. 
 

[PokerPacker]

10 minutes ago, Destino said:

What America did, along the European powers before them, was much worse. And, sadly, much more thorough. Consider the percentage of the US population that is indigenous today, in the land where their cultures originate. It’s more than numbers though because the US also engaged in cultural genocide. Their children were stolen and forced into cruel schools hoping to wipe out their culture entirely. 
 

Yeah, but at least we took it fair and square!  How far would Israel have gotten in taking Palestine's land and genociding its people without outside support?

 

Wait, what is my thesis here?

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, PokerPacker said:

Wait, what is my thesis here?

 

A lot of opinions on the Internet.

[ixcuincle]