CousinsCowgirl84 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Good news that should assuage any fears about Israel’s intentions! 😉 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 2 hours ago, ixcuincle said: This is largely nonsense. Aside from the usual spurious conflating of opposition to radical Zionism with anti-semitism, the idea that the younger generation somehow auto-morphed into anti-semites is laughable. The "traditional" right-wing anti-semites are who they have been all along. However, the new generation of alleged anti-semites are new to the game. They didn't just decide out of the blue to believe in the nonsense tropes and hate Jews. Rather, they objected to Israel's war crimes, went to social media to vent and organize, then the anti-semitic tropes made their way into the movement. Had Israel showed a modicum of restraint and wasn't attempting to commit genocide, most of the younger generation would be about where were previously, i.e., largely ignorant and apathetic to the issue and this result would have been highly unlikely. As with running an Apartheid state, committing war crimes and genocidal activities results in negative opinions. I'm sure Putler can relate to their surprise at this. The anti-semitism certainly isn't right, but it's richly deserved. If it eventually results in the U.S. cutting off/reducing arms sales or taking away Israel's carte blanche get out of jail free card with the U.N. so much the better. Moreover, they don't really need it. "But, they live in such an unfriendly neighborhood!" I don't entirely dispute that, but their nukes, and advanced western weapons compared to what the Arabs have, most of whom have abandoned the Palestinians and moved on from the issue anyway, is such that Israel's small size and numerical disadvantage is now much less of an issue than it was a few decades ago. David has morphed into Goliath. Let him pay to commit genocide himself...and be held accountable by international law for it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted March 21 Author Share Posted March 21 A 2023 report also indicates rising antisemitism in young people. Here are the 11 Tropes -- even though the lists has more than 11 -- I have combined a few to make 11. "Jews stick together more than other Americans." "Jews in business tend to go out of their way to higher other Jews." "Jews are more loyal to Israel than to America." "Jews always like to be at the head of things." "Jews do not share my values." "Jews have too much power in the business world." "Jews have too much control and influence on Wall Street." "Jews have too much power in the United States today." "Jews don't care what happens to anyone but their own kind." "Jews in business are so shrewd that other people do not have a chance to compete." "Jews are more willing than others to do something shady in business to get what they want." "Jews have a lot of irritating faults." "Jews are not warm and friendly." "Jews are just not as honest as other business people". Quote The average number of anti-Jewish tropes believed by each generational cohort continues to reverse the trend seen in the latter half of the 20th century during which the older respondents were, the more likely they were to endorse anti-Jewish tropes. Millennials agree with the greatest number of anti-Jewish tropes on average, at 5.4. They’re followed by Gen Z at 5, Gen X at 4.2, and Baby Boomers at 3.1. ... Conspiracy theorists, "supremecists" and people who believe that problems come down to "the oppressor vs. Oppressed" have a high correlation to believe in more tropes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, Fergasun said: A 2023 report also indicates rising antisemitism in young people. .. Conspiracy theorists, "supremecists" and people who believe that problems come down to "the oppressor vs. Oppressed" have a high correlation to believe in more tropes. Did this come from the ADL report linked to in the Time article, or someplace else? Because I'd argue that this is patently wrong for a number of reasons. First, for the correlation to hold, it would make most Jews antisemitic conspiracy theorists themselves. After all, the holocaust ranks among one of history's bigger atrocities that can easily and factually be attributed to an oppressor vs. the oppressed. Likewise, that would make tons of other groups like the former enslaved black people in the U.S. more subject to it as well, except we know that they themselves identified with the allegedly enslaved Jews in the OT, which we now know to be largely false, but I digress. I think the antisemitic conspiracy theories largely originate in the more or less universal human tendency to "other" out groups, with a strong unquestioned belief in misinterpreted NT Biblical passages used to legitimate antisemitic ideas. Moreover, if you look at the history of antisemitism in the U.S., it was largely supported by these Biblical beliefs spouted by the Klan and later far-right groups that equated Jews with communists. Unlike today's grievance-driven reverse racism MAGA fascists, back in the day, the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion and other anti-Jewish BS conspiracy theories were being pushed by the Birch Society and other white supremacists who didn't at all believe in oppressor vs. oppressed. Instead, their antisemitism was driven by their beliefs that they were the group to be dominant over others who should just accept their place in society. That's pretty much the polar opposite of the oppressor vs. oppressed idea. So, please don't believe the sleight of hand they always try to pull by blaming their own numerous fatal flaws on "Wokeism" from the other side.🙄 Don't fall for the gaslighting. Oddly enough, the U.S. racists' views jibe very well with the far-right Zionists in Israel who believe that as their (non-existent) God's chosen people, anything they do, including genocide and ethnic cleansing to rid "their" land of the people who were already there for hundreds of years is OK. In fact, it looks very much like what the U.S. government did to the natives here. I don't dispute Israel's right to exist and their right to a share of that land by virtue of their de-facto ownership of it for decades now, no matter what I think about the validity of how they came into it. However, I also believe there's a two state solution that probably both sides would hate which means it would also be fairer. That's literally never going to happen if we continue to give the Zionists a blank check by protecting them in the U.N. and giving them enough weapons to level everything in their path instead of fighting for it. Right now, their far-right has no skin in the game. Let's see how devoted they are to their one-sided, single state solution when they have to pay with more dead soldiers instead of dead Palestinian civilians. Right now, the far-right gets to have its cake and eat it too as they get an exemption from military service while left-leaning, atheist, and other Jews have to do all the fighting. If their far-right wants to cling to their single state ideals, then let them fight the superior numbers of the Arabs with infantry like the Ukrainians do against the Russians instead of hiding in a Yeshiva somewhere like little ****es. Edited March 22 by The Sisko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaytoAli Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Kick the Turks and Persians out of Palestine and kick the Kosars out of Israel. PEACE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 It came from an ADL report, I think from late February of this year. I believe Jews when they say they feel more anti-semitism. It seems that it's really hard to say "I am pro-zionist, and I am pro-Palestinian ". "Anti-zionism" seems to imply the state of Israel shouldn't exist. I don't have skin in the game, but it seems really strange that the October 7 attack has backfired, but Israel is trying to make an even bigger backfire. I see the US is pushing Israel more in the UN. Someone explain how this war doesn't end in genocide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 Israel just announced new West Bank settlements. That will help cool tensions! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Let me quess. Their aid package just passed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 On 3/21/2024 at 11:08 PM, Fergasun said: It came from an ADL report, I think from late February of this year. I believe Jews when they say they feel more anti-semitism. It seems that it's really hard to say "I am pro-zionist, and I am pro-Palestinian ". "Anti-zionism" seems to imply the state of Israel shouldn't exist. I don't have skin in the game, but it seems really strange that the October 7 attack has backfired, but Israel is trying to make an even bigger backfire. I see the US is pushing Israel more in the UN. Someone explain how this war doesn't end in genocide? Sadly, I don't know that there's an answer to that question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 On 3/21/2024 at 9:05 PM, The Sisko said: I think the antisemitic conspiracy theories largely originate in the more or less universal human tendency to "other" out groups, with a strong unquestioned belief in misinterpreted NT Biblical passages used to legitimate antisemitic ideas. I don't think you have to pull the NT into this. Antisemitism appears to predate Christianity. Whatever the existing dominant religion/belief system is it is going to be used to attack minority groups. Jewish or other because of the universal human tendency to "other" out groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 4 minutes ago, PeterMP said: Jewish or other because of the universal human tendency to "other" out groups anybody not in the cult. FTFY. Part of establishing a cult following is "other"ing everybody else. Even if it's the vast majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 (edited) On 3/21/2024 at 11:08 PM, Fergasun said: Someone explain how this war doesn't end in genocide? Good news. Strictly speaking I don't think either group really wants or is capable of true genocide. Neither group has the ability (and I doubt the desire) to kill in large numbers people that live outside of the surrounding region. Jewish and Palestinians that are living in the US and Europe are safe (mostly, we might see something like the Indians appear to have been doing with Sikh leaders internationally and other violence but not at the level of a genocide). Israel is a nuclear state. Even if Palestinians do actually desire the destruction of the Israel, it is something far beyond what the Palestinians and neighboring Muslim states can achieve without a nuclear response that would destroy them. So the Palestinians/Arab states would have to be much more poweful then they are now and willing to risk their own destruction. That if the status quo continues that in the future you'll see an Israel that encompasses the totality of Palestine and that the vast majority of Palestinians are forced to leave the area and/or forced into refugee camps seems a likely scenario. Edited March 23 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 41 minutes ago, Larry said: FTFY. Part of establishing a cult following is "other"ing everybody else. Even if it's the vast majority. The implication that we can't recognize that all humans aren't the same and don't share the same belief systems without being part of or there being the existence of a cult seems dumb and impractical to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Neither Hamas or Israel are going to listen to the UN. This probably just leads to Israel going into Rafah sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 Who wants to bet this won't cause the "genocide Joe" voters to be quiet because they are funded by Russia.... This is another huge news. What was different than the one that Russia and China vetoed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 1 hour ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Neither Hamas or Israel are going to listen to the UN. This probably just leads to Israel going into Rafah sooner. It's not meant to, the take away here is US finally didn't block a resolution condemning Isreal...that's a big deal. It's one thing to not be able to stop Israel, it's another to give clear indications were heading in a direction of not helping them do it. 23 minutes ago, Fergasun said: Who wants to bet this won't cause the "genocide Joe" voters to be quiet because they are funded by Russia.... This is another huge news. What was different than the one that Russia and China vetoed? Man, so glad I'm not only one wondering that...but seems like they hashed it out in the following vote. US did vote yes in that one they voted no, then abstained in this one they voted yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 3 hours ago, Renegade7 said: It's not meant to, the take away here is US finally didn't block a resolution condemning Isreal...that's a big deal. It's one thing to not be able to stop Israel, it's another to give clear indications were heading in a direction of not helping them do it. Man, so glad I'm not only one wondering that...but seems like they hashed it out in the following vote. US did vote yes in that one they voted no, then abstained in this one they voted yes. Where does the resolution condemn Israel? The difference between this one and the one China/Russia vetoed is that this one calls for an immediate release of hostages and an immediate ceasefire during Ramadanwhere as the one China/russia vetoed called for an immediate release of hostages and a ceasefire at an appropriate time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Just now, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Where does the resolution condemn Israel? The difference between this one and the one China/Russia vetoed is that this one calls for an immediate release of hostages and an immediate ceasefire during Ramadanwhere as the one China/russia vetoed called for an immediate release of hostages and a ceasefire at an appropriate time. Agreeing to demanding a ceasefire and not getting in the way...are you poking holes in this or jus being specific? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Agreeing to demanding a ceasefire and not getting in the way...are you poking holes in this or jus being specific? That isn’t condemning Israel. It’s doing something that Israel doesn’t like, but it isn’t saying Israel did something wrong. The US wants the release of all hostages and a ceasefire during Ramadan to allow aid. After that Israel can resume fighting without violating the UN agreement. The US doesn’t want a ceasefire without the release of the hostages. Edited March 25 by CousinsCowgirl84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 @CousinsCowgirl84 Well yes, but the argument for a ceasefire would be that the Palestinians enjoy a ceasefire so much, they push to make it permanent. There will be lots of pressure on Israel for a permanent ceasefire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted March 31 Author Share Posted March 31 Here is a much clearer article on what happened: https://cnsmaryland.org/2024/03/28/raskin-speech-at-the-university-of-maryland-disrupted-by-protest-over-gaza/ ... and here's an article by the author of the Tweet... https://www.thefire.org/news/no-hecklers-veto-not-more-speech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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