2024 NFL Draft Position/Tracker - Final Pick #2

[skinny21]

44 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Been saying this for weeks. Some people here want us to draft and start 4 rookies. That is a pipe dream and will never happen. You need experience in your OL room. And I definitely wouldnt stick two rookies side by side on the OL. I could see us rolling with Leno at LT another year and going rookie at RT and LG or RT and C though.

And you have Stromberg to compete with the rookie IOL (LG or C), so we could wind up with just 1 rookie starting… assuming they do land a higher end FA IOL.

 

I do think it makes some sense to draft 2 OTs though.  Gives you a potential swing tackle (or at least competition for the spot) for this year, it’s a deep class - which we should take advantage of, and you’ve got a starter or competition for 2025.  I’ll add that we need to move on from Leno in 2025 (small chance we move on from him this year), and that means we’re only paying 2 guys significant money this year (Leno and a FA) and next year (the FA and Cosmi, if we re-sign him).  I like the prospect of competition, depth, and youth on the OL with not a lot of cap allocated.

[skinsfan66]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

As crappy as this franchise is a top 3 or 4 pick has been a rarity. If you have the ability to grab a true franchise QB you do it. The team has neglected QB in the draft for far too long. Yes they got lucky and hit on a player that is at least decent in the 5th round two years ago. But that is overwhelmingly rare. When you are doing a true rebuild from the ground up everyone is expendable. And Sam has trade value. Problem with him being a 5th rounder is you have no 5th year option on him. So it will lower his trade value a little bit. But it will be up to to the new staff to decide the direction they want to go at QB. To me Williams is the best on field QB I have watched in this draft. His off schedule game is incredibly good. And he is the only QB I would be willing to trade up a couple of spots for. Maye is meh to me. And I would not draft Daniels in the first round. You could also add someone like Penix or Nix in the second round to compete against Sam. But again the odds of that player being a true franchise superstar are slim. 

 

The other factor to me is next years QB crop looks pretty pedestrian. So if you want your franchise guy this is probably the draft to do it in. 

That true franchise QB has tons of value also. What did Chicago get last year? 

[Thinking Skins]

24 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I dont think you are gonna get a first for Howell. His "top 5" stats are skewed because EB refuses to run the football. His TD% is the lowest of the top 17 QB's in passing yards. His INT% is the second highest IN THE LEAGUE. His QBR is 23rd. I am not saying Howell cant be a good starter. He could end up being a top 15 player at the position. But when you actually dig into his stats with open eyes the story becomes much murkier.

That for them to tell you. I'm not going to offer them that. If I'm selling my car, I'm not going to go and try tell you why you should pay less. I'm going to tell you why you're getting a deal. His Iny % is high because he was trying to throw balls away and they were caught / intercepted. The sacks are because of the line and because he wants to make plays. Something he needs to learn from but a characteristic of his skill, and something you see in his rushing TDs. You're selling him short. I wouldn't want you negotiating the trade. 

[skinny21]

27 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I dont think you are gonna get a first for Howell. His "top 5" stats are skewed because EB refuses to run the football. His TD% is the lowest of the top 17 QB's in passing yards. His INT% is the second highest IN THE LEAGUE. His QBR is 23rd. I am not saying Howell cant be a good starter. He could end up being a top 15 player at the position. But when you actually dig into his stats with open eyes the story becomes much murkier.

Perhaps a conditional 2nd or 3rd that can go as high as a 1st next year?  That doesn’t sound too unreasonable to me (for either side), depending on the benchmarks…

[Koolblue13]

39 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

How are people saying we get such a low pick for Howell? He is a first rounder at LEAST. That's the starting point of negotiations. You don't let a starting QB go on a rookie contract who is a pro bowler in the top 5 in yards and top half in TDs go for a 3rd rounder. Thats how we unerestimated Cousins, thinking nobody wanted him. He was a good starter. 

Doesn't matter, because Howell is not getting traded. That would be incredibly idiotic. What are you going to do for a back up? Pay a more expensive vet who's proven he's not a starter?

 

Especially the people who want a third for him? I bet 31 teams makes that trade. Maybe we can get a 5th for Allen next even though we already paid the bulk of his contract.

[50yrSKINSfan]

If we get lucky enough to draft one of the top 2 QBs then you have to get one regardless of what you think of Sam. Just think if we went with Tua or Herbert instead of that generational talent Chase Young we would not be in the mess we are in today. Drafting a guy with the second overall pick and then trading him for a third. What a joke this franchise is. What is that old saying, “people that forget the past are doomed to repeat it”? If you get the chance pick the QB from UNC I believe he is from,  take him or trade the pick for multiple picks. Using a top 3 pick on a O lineman is dumb. 

[skinsfan4128]

At this point, you have to think OL is the pick. The trenches need to be rebuilt. I don't give a **** who you put at QB, if thos OL doesn't get fixed, they won't be successful. 

 

Personally,  I like Howell and believe he has the tools to be an above average QB capable of winning.  Problem is, he's been on a submarine with a screen door everytime the ball is snapped.

 

Yes, it'll be tempting to take a Harrison Jr., Bowers, etc., but you have to shore up that ridiculous, putrid OL.

 

And you have to lock up LT if you have one sitting there that could lock down the most important position along the OL for the next 8-10 years. Leno isn't the answer as he is in decline. You could possibly move Leno to RT to extend his longevity and solidify that side of the line as others have done before.

 

Either way,  you have got to address the QBs blindside. And Alt or Fash does that. Everything else is a luxury at this point.

 

HTTR!

[Darrell Green Fan]

2 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

I'm personally a little taken aback by this comment. Have you seen Taliese Fuaga play? He is as good a prospect if not better than Sewell to me. Fashanu and Alt are nothing to sneeze at either. Now, I agree with can trade back and still come away with an excellent OT because this class is loaded but I personally would label Fuaga as an elite caliber prospect.

I have not seen Fuaga rated higher than Sewell. For what it's worth I went to one site and looked at their evaluation of both.

 

Fuaga overall grade was 87.5  Sewall was 93.0

 

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Penei-Sewell-OT-Oregon

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Taliese-Fuaga-OL-OregonState

 

Fuaga will probably be solid but for the reasons posted in this thread I just don't see that as a value pick at all..  

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

How bout dropping back, taking Bowers (TE) and filling the other 3-4 day two picks with O-line and maybe a safety?

Agreed, I wouldn't trade Howell for less than a 2nd and 2025 third...if a team is really interested in him they'll gladly pay that price for their new starting QB.

Yes this was more of what I had in mind. If they do not take a QB, and I remain undecided about that, then trade back to a place where they can still get a elite talent while still finding the OL that are needed. Ideally the trade down will include a first next year.  If Bowers falls to their new pick that would be great, if he does not they will still be able to find a good OT prospect and will be sitting on another 1st rounder for next season.  

[skinsfan66]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Doesn't matter, because Howell is not getting traded. That would be incredibly idiotic. What are you going to do for a back up? Pay a more expensive vet who's proven he's not a starter?

 

Especially the people who want a third for him? I bet 31 teams makes that trade. Maybe we can get a 5th for Allen next even though we already paid the bulk of his contract.

It would have to be one hell of a upgrade of Howell for me to let him go. I hope he ends the year on fire after the layoff? Would not mind the losses too. I cannot not see a way to keep him if a Top QB is drafted and becomes the starter. He would start for many teams he is not a backup is what I think.

[The Consigliere]

12 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I’ll just say this, if the new GM is ready to give up on Sam because he thinks he isn’t good, and use our high first round pick on a quarterback when we have more glaring needs, he better be right… About both.

If he isn't right about Sam it will be easy to trade sam for quality compensation, or trade the draftee for quality comp. Right now, Sam's trade value is limited, if trade suddenly plays like a top 10 guy in the fall and into winter or whatever, his compensation value will go up accordingly. 

[skinsmania123]

2 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

That for them to tell you. I'm not going to offer them that. If I'm selling my car, I'm not going to go and try tell you why you should pay less. I'm going to tell you why you're getting a deal. His Iny % is high because he was trying to throw balls away and they were caught / intercepted. The sacks are because of the line and because he wants to make plays. Something he needs to learn from but a characteristic of his skill, and something you see in his rushing TDs. You're selling him short. I wouldn't want you negotiating the trade. 

But they are going to evaluate him based upon production and stats, because any team evaluating him wants to get a deal for their team as well. I don't know what you can sell them on if Sam does not statistically improve over these next 4 games. Personally, I do not see us getting better than a 4th rounder for him.  But truthfully, I want to hold onto Sam. He is on a cheap contract first of all, and if the new GM goes QB, you have a great backup.  it's pretty clear that Sam's issues with this team seem to be as follows: EB's play calling and its predictability, the inefficient O-line, WR's NOT getting separation possibly due to scheme, and perhaps, connected with that last point, leading to a lack of explosive plays downfield.  Sam was excellent in college, as we all know in terms of completion percentages both in his freshman and sophomore year, and having players that can stretch the field.  Sam is essentially having his rookie year here, so has made boneheaded plays. My God look at Manning, and Aikman during their freshman campaigns. My biggest fear is if we trade him, and he has some fairly decent players around him and improved protection upfront, he is going to do very well. He is very level-headed, and he can make all the throws, and he is quick enough to pick up yards. 

 

In 2019, he was rated 5th in the country in terms of accuracy and decision-making. BUT in 2020 he did not have the receiver talent around him, so he ran a lot, and scored 11 TD's. I find it curious that Dyami Brown was his go to guy in 2018- 2019 in college - a very reliable connection, but here in Washington, not so much. Brown has dropped balls, sometimes can't get separation, and Sam of course has overthrown him.  And this to me comes back to the lack of protection upfront, and predictability of this offense. 

 

How do you fairly evaluate him?  You give him another year.  You form a decent O line, which may take a couple of years. But just improvements there would help Howell improve.  If we have the opportunity to take Harrison Jr (who will IMO match expectations in the NFL), that would be a game changer for this offense. A true big-bodied #1 receiver.  And if you can't get someone of his caliber, you have to at least get yourself a kick ass TE who can achieve YAC.  All the top QB's have had that TE connection.  But IMO you have to jettison EB. He is not the right fit for this team. 

[Koolblue13]

There are a few teams like the Packers with multiple day two picks. I could see them crushing on MHJ and wanting to come up. 

 

I do love the "at top 5 grab elite talent" angle, but we're about to lose a ton of players at a lot of positions. If a new regime wants to completely rebuild this team a trade back would make us rich on day two. Swap firsts and get their 2 2nds? Is that realistic? Or a first next year and a 2&3 this year?

 

There are so many ways this draft could g for us. It is so nice to not be sitting mid first round, missing a day two pick, with very limited cap space.

 

We're going to look completely different next season. It's really exciting.

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

It would have to be one hell of a upgrade of Howell for me to let him go. I hope he ends the year on fire after the layoff? Would not mind the losses too. I cannot not see a way to keep him if a Top QB is drafted and becomes the starter. He would start for many teams he is not a backup is what I think.

He's on a rookie contract. There is no justifiable to reason to trade him, even if he's just the back up.

 

Worst case, he's a great back up for us for two years and goes on to become a mediocre starter somewhere and costs us nothing. A 5th round pick and contract and solid depth.

 

Best case he becomes a great QB and we have two great QBs and trade him next year for a 1rst.

 

Trading him this year isn't going to happen and the idea of doing it for anything other than a solid first rounder, during the draft, after we pick a QB, is just ****ing stupid and unrealistic.

 

Would any team with a GM not trying to get fired trade a first for Howell instead of drafting Nix, Penix, JJ or Ewers on day two? Of course not.

 

The trade our QB talk should be in the QB thread anyway regardless of if we draft one.

[kingdaddy]

11 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

If he isn't right about Sam it will be easy to trade sam for quality compensation, or trade the draftee for quality comp. Right now, Sam's trade value is limited, if trade suddenly plays like a top 10 guy in the fall and into winter or whatever, his compensation value will go up accordingly. 

Think about it, if we drafted a QB AND kept Howell, and next season sees QB's dropping the way they have this season, then Sam would bring us at least a 2nd round pick in 2025. Although, I like what the Eagles did, drafting Hurts in the second round while they still had Wentz. If Bo Nix is there in round 2, after we already traded back in round one for someone's 1st and 2nd round picks, I'd grab someone like Nix in round 2 in addition to an O-lineman. We'd then have Howell, our own first, three seconds, two thirds and likely an additional pick in 2025 by dropping back a few spots. Take a QB with one of the 2nd round picks in this years draft (as long as we really like who's there). Who knows, we could see Jayden Daniels, Nix or JJ McCarthy from Michigan sitting there for us in round two? That guy would be Sam's competition and vice versa. Accumulating QB assets can set a team up for a nice run just like the Eagles are in the middle of. 

[Chump Bailey]

40 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I have not seen Fuaga rated higher than Sewell. For what it's worth I went to one site and looked at their evaluation of both.

 

Fuaga overall grade was 87.5  Sewall was 93.0

 

No rankings exist that beat my eye test

 

Sorry buddy - did not mean to come off as snarky as it sounded. I do personally think Fuaga is the better prospect though.

[Thinking Skins]

4 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

But they are going to evaluate him based upon production and stats, because any team evaluating him wants to get a deal for their team as well. I don't know what you can sell them on if Sam does not statistically improve over these next 4 games. Personally, I do not see us getting better than a 4th rounder for him.  But truthfully, I want to hold onto Sam. He is on a cheap contract first of all, and if the new GM goes QB, you have a great backup.  it's pretty clear that Sam's issues with this team seem to be as follows: EB's play calling and its predictability, the inefficient O-line, WR's NOT getting separation possibly due to scheme, and perhaps, connected with that last point, leading to a lack of explosive plays downfield.  Sam was excellent in college, as we all know in terms of completion percentages both in his freshman and sophomore year, and having players that can stretch the field.  Sam is essentially having his rookie year here, so has made boneheaded plays. My God look at Manning, and Aikman during their freshman campaigns. My biggest fear is if we trade him, and he has some fairly decent players around him and improved protection upfront, he is going to do very well. He is very level-headed, and he can make all the throws, and he is quick enough to pick up yards. 

 

In 2019, he was rated 5th in the country in terms of accuracy and decision-making. BUT in 2020 he did not have the receiver talent around him, so he ran a lot, and scored 11 TD's. I find it curious that Dyami Brown was his go to guy in 2018- 2019 in college - a very reliable connection, but here in Washington, not so much. Brown has dropped balls, sometimes can't get separation, and Sam of course has overthrown him.  And this to me comes back to the lack of protection upfront, and predictability of this offense. 

 

How do you fairly evaluate him?  You give him another year.  You form a decent O line, which may take a couple of years. But just improvements there would help Howell improve.  If we have the opportunity to take Harrison Jr (who will IMO match expectations in the NFL), that would be a game changer for this offense. A true big-bodied #1 receiver.  And if you can't get someone of his caliber, you have to at least get yourself a kick ass TE who can achieve YAC.  All the top QB's have had that TE connection.  But IMO you have to jettison EB. He is not the right fit for this team. 

 

But you are lessening your own investment. I see Howell as the starter for this team and I'm not looking to trade him at all. I'm just saying that when you do look to trade, you stack the POSITIVES like the things I mention, the top 5 in yards, top half in TDs, other things likt rushing yards and TDs, QBR depending on which site you go by SUCC rate, first down %, etc. 

 

You can compare that to Kirk Cousins who we had here, who we were negotiating for a first rounder if we would have just picked up the phone. And he was a much more expensive guy. But he was only 7th in yards. But similar in TDs. That year he was up there for interceptions with 13. This is something that I think you need to think about.

 

Howell was a 5th round pick but even at the Senior Bowl they were talking about him being a 1st or 2nd round pick. Teams have not forgotten this. They see what he's and they expected it. If we trade him for less than a first we are just being foolish. 

 

But we shouldn't trade him. We should build around him. If we had drafted him (say instead of drafting Johan) and sat him similarly then this wouldn't be a conversation because he would be doing what is expected. He is having typical struggles. He is still performing better than anyone in his class minus Purdy who has the Greatest Show on Grass. I'm not knocking Purdy but that's hard to expect. We need to build around Howell and get him a LT and a defense so that some of those leads and drives he was building can last next year. 

[skinsfan66]

40 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

He's on a rookie contract. There is no justifiable to reason to trade him, even if he's just the back up.

 

Worst case, he's a great back up for us for two years and goes on to become a mediocre starter somewhere and costs us nothing. A 5th round pick and contract and solid depth.

 

Best case he becomes a great QB and we have two great QBs and trade him next year for a 1rst.

 

Trading him this year isn't going to happen and the idea of doing it for anything other than a solid first rounder, during the draft, after we pick a QB, is just ****ing stupid and unrealistic.

 

Would any team with a GM not trying to get fired trade a first for Howell instead of drafting Nix, Penix, JJ or Ewers on day two? Of course not.

 

The trade our QB talk should be in the QB thread anyway regardless of if we draft one.

You think Howell is going to take benching in stride with the rookie taking his place not me, He will ask for a trade too, is my bet? (As a Example) If I am S.F. and say Purdy goes down in game 4 and your 4 and 0 or It's preseason and you lose the QB do you make the call for a late 1st. next year and Howell on a rookie contract that will not hurt your cap or go with what you have and try to save the season?  If he works out your also in a good position the following year with 2 QB's. If Howell stay's it's for the starting Job that's what I am feeling.

Edited December 14, 2023 by skinsfan66

[Est.1974]

53 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

There are a few teams like the Packers with multiple day two picks. I could see them crushing on MHJ and wanting to come up. 

I wondered about Indy and MHJ but they look too far back to me.

[Koolblue13]

7 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

You think Howell is going to take benching in stride with the rookie taking his place not me, He will ask for a trade too, is my bet? (As a Example) If I am S.F. and say Purdy goes down in game 4 and your 4 and 0 or It's preseason and you lose the QB do you make the call for a late 1st. next year and Howell on a rookie contract that will not hurt your cap or go with what you have and try to save the season?  If he works out your also in a good position the following year with 2 QB's. If Howell stay's it's for the starting Job that's what I am feeling.

What's he going to do? Sit out? On the bench?

 

If there's a camp battle and Sam beats out the new QB, the new HC should start him.

 

Sa is a total roll with the punches guy, I doubt he'd throw a hissy fit

1 minute ago, Est.1974 said:

I wondered about Indy and MHJ but they look too far back to me.

I'm not too worried about trading back too far honestly. This draft is extremely deep at some spots we need.

Plus, it's the draft. QBs, edge rushers, CBs and WRs are all going to rise above their rankings. So are OTs.

[skinsfan66]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

What's he going to do? Sit out? On the bench?

 

If there's a camp battle and Sam beats out the new QB, the new HC should start him.

 

Sa is a total roll with the punches guy, I doubt he'd throw a hissy fit

Could be a distraction happened before or you could do the right thing and trade for the pick or picks, while the iron is hot. And resign your backup maybe he will see the field more.

[skinsmania123]

22 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

But you are lessening your own investment. I see Howell as the starter for this team and I'm not looking to trade him at all. I'm just saying that when you do look to trade, you stack the POSITIVES like the things I mention, the top 5 in yards, top half in TDs, other things likt rushing yards and TDs, QBR depending on which site you go by SUCC rate, first down %, etc. 

I definitely see him as a starter here at least next year.  Those are fair points you are making.  

22 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

You can compare that to Kirk Cousins who we had here, who we were negotiating for a first rounder if we would have just picked up the phone. And he was a much more expensive guy. But he was only 7th in yards. But similar in TDs. That year he was up there for interceptions with 13. This is something that I think you need to think about.

That was just one of many blunders that occurred during the Snyder-Allen debacle. That was a complete **** show. Cousins knew he was being disrespected by them with the tagging, and I agree we could have gotten a low 1st round for him. The Cousins trade should have happened solely because he did not want to play here after the disrespect and because he had solid seasons under his belt between 2015-2017, so there was enough there, in terms of his production, for some QB needy team to pull the trigger. It is not there for Howell yet.

22 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

Howell was a 5th round pick but even at the Senior Bowl they were talking about him being a 1st or 2nd round pick. Teams have not forgotten this. They see what he's and they expected it. If we trade him for less than a first we are just being foolish. 

Honestly, I do not think you are going to get more than a third rounder or a very low 2nd for Howell.  There are too many unknowns. 

 

22 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

 

But we shouldn't trade him. We should build around him. If we had drafted him (say instead of drafting Johan) and sat him similarly then this wouldn't be a conversation because he would be doing what is expected. He is having typical struggles. He is still performing better than anyone in his class minus Purdy who has the Greatest Show on Grass. I'm not knocking Purdy but that's hard to expect. We need to build around Howell and get him a LT and a defense so that some of those leads and drives he was building can last next year. 

 

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, skinsfan66 said:

Could be a distraction happened before or you could do the right thing and trade for the pick or picks, while the iron is hot. And resign your backup maybe he will see the field more.

You are getting upset at imaginary scenarios that haven't happened and have very little chance of happening. Please let it go.

 

Howell is not getting traded. It's idiotic to even talk about.

[sjinhan]

Just now, skinsfan66 said:

Could be a distraction happened before or you could do the right thing and trade for the pick or picks, while the iron is hot. And resign your backup maybe he will see the field more.

i agree.  if we draft a QB with our top pick then we just need to trade Howell while there could be good value.

 

If Howell gets worse then obviously we will be getting less OR Howell does really well then i guess what do you do with the QB you just drafted... you trade away a known commodity in Howell for a QB that havent started??   It is too much circus.

 

Also I bet teams would like to get Howell when he has 2 years left on his contract to see at least what he will do in their system before giving him a new contract... if you trade for him and he only has 1 year left.. i think you HAVE to give a new contract in that scenario before he starts a game for you.

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, sjinhan said:

i agree.  if we draft a QB with our top pick then we just need to trade Howell while there could be good value.

 

If Howell gets worse then obviously we will be getting less OR Howell does really well then i guess what do you do with the QB you just drafted... you trade away a known commodity in Howell for a QB that havent started??   It is too much circus.

 

Also I bet teams would like to get Howell when he has 2 years left on his contract to see at least what he will do in their system before giving him a new contract... if you trade for him and he only has 1 year left.. i think you HAVE to give a new contract in that scenario before he starts a game for you.

Explain how Howells value drops during next season?

[skinsfan66]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

You are getting upset at imaginary scenarios that haven't happened and have very little chance of happening. Please let it go.

 

Howell is not getting traded. It's idiotic to even talk about.

Who's upset? Both won't be here next year is my opinion traded or not. And I am moving on.