Welcome New Owner Josh Harris

[Skinsinparadise]

31 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I've never set up a scouting department in my life but wouldn't it make sense to get a GM in place now so that GM can replace/retain and build that portion of the FO and set the course for next offseason?  Keeping the same FO and staff throughout this season means that next offseason we're making free agent and draft decisions based on the findings of Ron's FO and scouting staff.

 

Am I wrong on this? 

 

GMs from what I recall don't typically emerge in the middle of the season.  Why?  Not sure.  It could be because they are constantly roster building during the seasons, players get hurt, they manage who next, who to get off the street, etc.  Or maybe there is another reason.

 

As for the next regime not influencing 2024 personnel, etc.  I think they would.  Lets take someone like Ed Dodds from the Colts.  He is likely doing draft anaylsis now for the Colts.  It's not like he's going to forget his takes from scouting this college season if he comes here. 

 

But bringing a GM here now is tricky because hiring a GM in effect fires Ron.  I think the more likely scenario is he's privately consulting with a veteran-retired personnel guy about who he should look at and how to evaluate Ron, etc. 

19 minutes ago, profusion said:

 

You're exactly right on this. It's the one reason I can think of why Josh might rationally fire Rivera before the end of the season. Ron's not just the head coach; he's in charge of the entire football operation, and I'm sure that's in his contract. I don't know that Josh could hire a fully empowered GM while Ron's still around.

 

To me, the best move is for Josh to work now on finding his guy to run football operations, and then fire Ron the day after the Commanders are eliminated from playoff contention. If that's Black Monday (1/8/24), so be it, but I wouldn't wait until the end of the season unless necessary. The new GM will have a lot of work to do before the draft and FA, and the sooner they can get to it, the better.

 

I think doing it towards the end of season could be in play depending on circumstance.  I think almost no shot it happens early unless what I feared (fans checking out) happens more dramatically than I expected and sooner than I expected. 

 

Josina's tweet where she goes "hint" clearly suggests that some minority owners (I presume Magic among them) are more interested in making a change than Josh is right now.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

28 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I've never set up a scouting department in my life but wouldn't it make sense to get a GM in place now so that GM can replace/retain and build that portion of the FO and set the course for next offseason?  Keeping the same FO and staff throughout this season means that next offseason we're making free agent and draft decisions based on the findings of Ron's FO and scouting staff.

 

Am I wrong on this? 

 

So, one thing I think is you can't interview/hire a person for a job somebody already has.  So, that's a problem.  

 

Also, the FO schedule is somewhat different than the coaching schedule. Typically contracts start right after the draft and run through the draft, unlike coach's, who's contracts start and end right after the season is over.  

 

Now, I think you can interview/hire a guy to a higher level at any time.  So, they could interview the VP of Player Personnel for the (pick your team) and give them a GM job, and I don't think that can be stopped.  But it's not really done during the season.  You see these moves more after the season or after the draft.  In general. 

 

49 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The idea that ticket sales would eventually flag.  That's a point that I among others made before the season.

 

The wicked witch is indeed dead and that's plenty to celebrate but how long will that sustain enthusiasm when we got a head coach-FO that the fan base isn't excited about and seem to take us for the same 8-8 type journey every season?  Eventually I expect some fans to tune out until this new regime brings a new FO and coaching staff.

Eh, to me this is a big "whatever."  It's probably less of a big "whatever" to Josh, though, and I recognize that.  This thing wasn't going to get turned around quickly.  It's going to take years to rebuild what Dan broke.  There was a short spike.  It will slip backwards, because the team isn't much better (maybe worse) than it has been.  

 

Josh needs to focus on the important things: finding the right FO and Coaching staffs, giving them what they want, and them being able to build a consistent winning organization.  When that happens, the ticket/attendance side will take care of itslef.

 

Which is different than with Dan. With Dan, even if that had happened, he was so toxic, parts of the fan base were never coming back.

 

Now, if folks see a competitive team, they'll be back in droves.  But fans are not going to lay out money consistently for a consistent losing team.  

 

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

GMs from what I recall don't typically emerge in the middle of the season.  Why?  Not sure.  It could be because they are constantly roster building during the seasons, players get hurt, they manage who next, who to get off the street, etc.  Or maybe there is another reason.

One of the GM's on one of the podcasts said contracts ran through the drafts.  I don't remember when or which podcast, but it stuck with me.  That doesn't mean changes can't be made, but FOs operate on a different schedule.  Which does make things more tricky to replace and rebuild all different levels of the FO. 

 

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for the next regime not influencing 2024 personnel, etc.  I think they would.  Lets take someone like Ed Dodds from the Colts.  He is likely doing draft anaylsis now for the Colts.  It's not like he's going to forget his takes from scouting this college season if he comes here. 

Totally agree with this.  And I think you can always hire/promote a guy and the other team can't do squat about it.  They just can't be lateral moves.  

 

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But bringing a GM here now is tricky because hiring a GM in effect fires Ron.  I think the more likely scenario is he's privately consulting with a veteran-retired personnel guy about who he should look at and how to evaluate Ron, etc. 

Different reactions to different pieces of this;

 

1.  Agree, bringing a new GM in here now is challenging.  For several reasons.  The assumption is Ron has contractual full authority over football ops.  So, in theory, Ron would have to hire the guy. Ron's not doing that.  Ron would also have to be ok with firing Marty.  

2. Ron MIGHT be ok with it if he thinks it's a way to offer up Marty as a scapegoat (though I'm not sure that's really Ron's thing.) I rather doubt it, though.  I think Ron's going to want to keep control until the day he's fired.

3. I agree, I think there's no chance Josh isn't talking to a lot of people behind the scenes.  I hope he's not talking to Casserly though.  Dude's an idiot.  That's my concern, because Casserly is now working for the NFL, helping all of the teams in some bizarre, undefined role. So he might be. 

 

I am sure he's talking to Joe Gibbs.  To what extent, who knows.  But they both invested in the other person's company, it would be bananas if they weren't talking to each other about this.  I'm also sure he's talking to Magic.  Who else?  I dunno. I'm also not sure I want an old fossil retired GM influencing his though process.  

 

I personally think the book is closed on Ron.  Unless he pulls off some amazing 10 game win streak, he's done.  I'm pretty sure they've moved on and are starting to lay the foundation of what's next.  Which doesn't mean we'll hear anything for another 2 months.  But I bet some things are in motion.  

[Skinsinparadise]

57 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

Eh, to me this is a big "whatever."  It's probably less of a big "whatever" to Josh, though, and I recognize that.  This thing wasn't going to get turned around quickly.  It's going to take years to rebuild what Dan broke.  There was a short spike.  It will slip backwards, because the team isn't much better (maybe worse) than it has been.  

 

 

It's a big whatever I think if you accept the decline driven by another "meh" Rivera season as being inevitable. That's how I saw the season going -- eventually fan enthusiasm would wane because Ron just runs a very uninspiring ship and the season would feel on script over time and in a bad way.

 

But i am not sure Harris predicted this.  It's still early.  It can turn around but if it doesn't they will likely lose some of that fan momentum.

 

If we had a different coaching staff-different off season-different season I think they'd have held most if not all of that fan momentum.

 

As I said before the season, Ron had such a lackluster-nonsexy off season that if the season plays out same old same old -- the most sexy-exciting move Harris can make it actually firing Ron and selling the next regime.

 

But I expect Harris to take the lumps and do this and wait until the end of the season or whenever they get elimiated from the playoffs.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RVAskins]

I see lots of changes coming in the off season, not before. I think Harris will be very methodical in his approach and talk to lots of people before making any major decisions. He's the complete opposite of the previous owner. Fans just need to sit back and let things play out. Josh Harris has 6+ billion reasons to make sure he makes the right decisions.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's a big whatever I think if you accept the decline driven by another "meh" Rivera season as being inevitable. That's how I saw the season going -- eventually fan enthusiasm would wane because Ron just runs a very uninspiring ship and the season would feel on script over time and in a bad way.

 

But i am not sure Harris predicted this.  It's still early.  It can turn around but if it doesn't they will likely lose some of that fan momentum.

 

If we had a different coaching staff-different off season-different season I think they'd have held most if not all of that fan momentum.

 

As I said before the season, Ron had such a lackluster-nonsexy off season that if the season plays out same old same old -- the most sexy-exciting move Harris can make it actually firing Ron and selling the next regime.

 

But I expect Harris to take the lumps and do this at the end of the season or whenever they get elimiated from the playoffs.

I think it's an "eh whatever" if you accept the fact that any team which isn't competing for the playoffs in November is going to have a very significant fanbase erosion for that season.  Inevitable or not.  Ron's got 3 more games before November to prove this team can continue to compete.  If they're .500 or better going into November (I can't see better, I can see .500) then fans will continue to show up.  As long as there is hope.  When hope is lost, fans will stop showing up.  That's basically the way of the entire NFL.  

 

So, I didn't expect the defense to be as absolutely horrifically bad as it has turned out to be, so I thought we'd be a little better than last year.

 

It appears likely I was very, very wrong about that.  Though, I think the offense is going to be farther ahead than I anticipated it being.  We're 17th in points per game, tied with Baltimore at 21.8, and that's including the 3 point stinker against the Bills.  I thought, incorrectly, if the offense could score ~22 points per game, the defense should be able to hold teams to ~20, and we win more games than we lose.  If you take out the one outlier, they're actually closer to 26 points per game.  Not terrible, considering the OL struggles, rookie QB and the new system. 

 

Well.  The defense has given up a whopping 32 points per game. I didn't foresee that at all.

 

I expected better results and therefore the fan excitement to continue a bit more through the season. 

 

However, I don't think you can make football decisions based on trying to keep your fans happy.  That's a byproduct of success.  So, if the season went "meh" to bad, then it was always going to have a negative impact on the fan engagement.

 

It's just a truth for all bad teams.  I am sure Harris hoped the season would be a good one.  I'm also sure he knew there was a possibility it wouldn't be great.  And I'm sure he understands the consequences of that.  

 

One thing though: he's not going to suffer the consequences of a bad regime that he didn't choose for long.  Yeah, he'll wait until they're eliminated or the end of the season.  And he's not going to say much during the season.  But he will directly see the impact of losing on revenue and he's not going to like it.  

[Riggo#44]

This might be Doc's worst rant ever. I'd like to believe that this is still The Beginning.

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Riggo#44

[NickyJ]

Doc's solution to everything is play with more heart. At 68 years old, Doc has reached the age where listeners need to nod their heads and say "yes, you're right gramps. Now get in the car so I can take you to Sherman's Bingo Night".

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

This might be Doc's worst rant ever. I'd like to believe that this is still The Beginning.

 

Doc is an absolute, complete, total, and in every way moronic imbecile.  

 

Why literally anybody listens to anything he has to say on any topic is completely beyond me.

 

Dude has the intelligence of a gnat with a learning disability. And that is probably an insults to gnats.

 

To say he was as dumb as a rock would be to insult the intelligence of rocks everywhere.  

 

The emotional maturity of a 4 year old.

 

The business sense of a person trying to sell ice to an Eskimo.  

 

He is, has been, and always will be, the dumbest, stupidest, most irrational, most pathetic excuse of a sports commentator in our area.

 

This rant just shows he has lost any grip on reality he ever had.  Which was very little.  

 

The only response to this is the following clip from Billy Madison:

 

 

/Rant

Edited October 9, 2023 by Voice_of_Reason

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, NickyJ said:

Doc's solution to everything is play with more heart. At 68 years old, Doc has reached the age where listeners need to nod their heads and say "yes, you're right gramps. Now get in the car so I can take you to Sherman's Bingo Night".

 

As bad as things look right now, they were always worse under Snyder. Well done.

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Doc is an absolute, complete, total, and in every way moronic imbecile.  

 

Why literally anybody listens to anything he has to say on any topic is completely beyond me.

 

The people who love Doc are also the people who call into 106.7.

[skinzplay]

I don't disagree with Doc, nor do most members of the ownership group (their sentiment is quickly changing). There were some who wanted to can him as the purchase/approval process was complete, because they saw the RR reality for what it was then and what it is now --- a road to nowhere

Edited October 9, 2023 by skinzplay

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

The people who love Doc are also the people who call into 106.7.

Yes, I know.  

 

Our fan base is stupid on steroids.  And part of it is because we have some of the absolute most horrendous sports media idiots who pump out moronic take after moronic take and lower the level of intelligence.

 

Doc Walker is their king.

 

How Chris Russell has a job, I will never know.

 

The junkies can be amusing, but couldn't find a rational thought with 2 hands and a flashlight.

 

Our local media coverage, save for a couple podcasts, all plays to the lowest common denominator.  Which they keep pushing lower because of their insistence of being stupid.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

I don't disagree with Doc, nor do most members of the ownership group (that sentiment is quickly changing). There were some who wanted to can him as the purchase/approval process was complete, because they saw the RR reality for what it was then and what it is now --- a road to nowhere

You can't fire a coach the week before training camp starts.

 

If you don't disagree with Doc, then you, like Doc, have literally no idea how anything works. You I can forgive, assuming you didn't play in the NFL. 

 

Doc has played in the NFL and should know better.

 

Just to remind people: Josh Harris closed on the purchase of the Commanders closed on July 21st.  Until July 21st, Josh Harris couldn't change the kind of coffee which is served at Commander's headquarters.

 

Commander's Training Camp started on July 27th.  That's 6 days later.

 

Anybody who thinks you can change a coaching staff/regime the literal week before training camp starts is smoking something which I would very much want.  

 

It was too late.  You can't get another coach at that point.  They already have run the off-season program.  Free Agency and the draft have already taken place.  

 

By the time training camp opens, you have what you have and you just have to make the most of it. 

 

Any argument to the contrary shows complete, total and absolute lack of understanding of literally anything surrounding team and business management. 

 

If Josh bought the team in March, there could be a fair criticism of "make a change now."  But he didn't.  He closed on the team on July 21st.  

 

That's too late.

 

Doc is being irresponsible, to be honest, for even suggesting it.  Completely, totally irresponsible.  And honestly, it's disgusting and off-putting.  I can't wait until he's no longer on any air waves in the market.  Ever.  

[Skinsinparadise]

28 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think it's an "eh whatever" if you accept the fact that any team which isn't competing for the playoffs in November is going to have a very significant fanbase erosion for that season.  Inevitable or not.  Ron's got 3 more games before November to prove this team can continue to compete.  If they're .500 or better going into November (I can't see better, I can see .500) then fans will continue to show up.  As long as there is hope.  When hope is lost, fans will stop showing up.  That's basically the way of the entire NFL.  

 

So, I didn't expect the defense to be as absolutely horrifically bad as it has turned out to be, so I thought we'd be a little better than last year.

 

It appears likely I was very, very wrong about that.  Though, I think the offense is going to be farther ahead than I anticipated it being.  We're 17th in points per game, tied with Baltimore at 21.8, and that's including the 3 point stinker against the Bills.  I thought, incorrectly, if the offense could score ~22 points per game, the defense should be able to hold teams to ~20, and we win more games than we lose.  If you take out the one outlier, they're actually closer to 26 points per game.  Not terrible, considering the OL struggles, rookie QB and the new system. 

 

Well.  The defense has given up a whopping 32 points per game. I didn't foresee that at all.

 

I expected better results and therefore the fan excitement to continue a bit more through the season. 

 

However, I don't think you can make football decisions based on trying to keep your fans happy.  That's a byproduct of success.  So, if the season went "meh" to bad, then it was always going to have a negative impact on the fan engagement.

 

It's just a truth for all bad teams.  I am sure Harris hoped the season would be a good one.  I'm also sure he knew there was a possibility it wouldn't be great.  And I'm sure he understands the consequences of that.  

 

One thing though: he's not going to suffer the consequences of a bad regime that he didn't choose for long.  Yeah, he'll wait until they're eliminated or the end of the season.  And he's not going to say much during the season.  But he will directly see the impact of losing on revenue and he's not going to like it.  

 

If Ron for example Eagles style this off season traded down and picked up an extra first or even a 2nd for 2024.  They got some player in the off season that's intriguing.  Something different.  Something intriguing.  But he IMO did nothing.

 

If lets say we had a new coaching staff or a new FO -- that feels intriguing. 

 

That's different than having the same old chef keeping the same old meal with everything looking the same. 

 

It's like dating the same person that you are tired of, but hoping maybe it will be different and it ends up exactly the same.  That feels different than dating someone new even if you aren't sure they are the one. 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If Ron for example Eagles style this off season traded down and picked up an extra first or even a 2nd for 2024.  They got some player in the off season that's intriguing.  Something different.  Something intriguing.  But he IMO did nothing.

 

We had a new coaching staff or a new FO that feels intriguing. 

 

That's different than having the same old chef keeping the same old meal with everything looking the same. 

 

If they win, people will show up.

 

If they lose, people wouldn't.

 

Shrug.  It is what it is.

 

Harris bought the team 6 days before training camp.  He was stuck with Ron for this year no matter what.  There's just about nothing they could have done at that point to change the direction of the ship.  

 

I wish Dan sold earlier.  But he didn't.  So here we are. 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If they win, people will show up.

 

If they lose, people wouldn't.

 

Shrug.  It is what it is.

 

Harris bought the team 6 days before training camp.  He was stuck with Ron for this year no matter what.  There's just about nothing they could have done at that point to change the direction of the ship.  

 

I wish Dan sold earlier.  But he didn't.  So here we are. 

 

So you think if the team was up and down with Ben Johnson and a new FO, the'd be checked out the same way.  To each their own but I don't think so.

 

Fans tend to have some patience with a new regime they are jazzed about.  There is nothing about Ron that gets anyone jazzed.  He's a nice dude but he walks, talks, and acts boring.  His off seasons are boring.  His seasons are boring. 

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As I said before the season, Ron had such a lackluster-nonsexy off season

Once the weather gets nice, I spend most of my free time playing golf, doing yard work, etc and a lot less time posting and following football.  It’s not like I was watching tape on Wylie and Barton.  

Certainly feels like this offseason will go down in the history books as one of the worst.  Imagine being a head coach that’s actually the ‘football czar’ in a must-win season with new bosses and this is who you choose to go to war with.  Mind boggling.

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Riggo#44]

And now Lynnell Willingham, who might be one of the only people worse than Doc, chimes in.

 

[NickyJ]

On the one hand, I want to say that Lynnell Willingham is dumb. On the other hand, it might be rash to make a snap judgement about someone who I didn't know existed until 3 minutes ago.

 

Actually, I'll judge him anyway. He's dumb.

Edited October 9, 2023 by NickyJ

[Chris 44]

Ron's presser today was rough. Being in the situation the team is you can expect a bit of an adversarial presser but Ron looked a bit out of it to me. He was asked questions but the answers just seemed really off to me. Kinda worried for the dude.

[RVAskins]

8 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

And now Lynnell Willingham, who might be one of the only people worse than Doc, chimes in.

 

Maybe if Lynnell was the one who paid over 6 billion for the team, he be a little concerned with ticket sales too. This also sounds like an out of context report so it's pretty much a nothing burger.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Can we also please acknowledge we have no idea where Josina Anderson is getting her information? She’s clearly on the take from agents and others (reference her ridiculous tweets about Lamar and other things over the spring/summer, and it’s extraordinary likely she has no access to Harris and this information could have been planted from 100 different places.

 

God the media sucks.  Almost all of it.  

[Riggo#44]

8 minutes ago, RVAskins said:

Maybe if Lynnell was the one who paid over 6 billion for the team, he be a little concerned with ticket sales too. This also sounds like an out of context report so it's pretty much a nothing burger.

You might be right. But that would require me to listen to Lynnell Willingham. And, I'd rather not. So I am going to go off half-****ed.

[Stihl89]

If Josh wants to wait on the fans not showing up Wait until November 19th when it’s raining and 43 degrees watching when the 3-7 host the 2-8 giants and 23k fans are there booing at halftime a 9-6 lead. See how fast Josh starts firing people

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, Stihl89 said:

If Josh wants to wait on the fans not showing up Wait until November 19th when it’s raining and 43 degrees watching when the 3-7 host the 2-8 giants and 23k fans are there booing at halftime a 9-6 lead. See how fast Josh starts firing people

Given how engaged that crowd was well into the 4th quarter, it might take longer than you think. But firing Ron probably won't bring people back either. 

[NickyJ]

2 minutes ago, Stihl89 said:

If Josh wants to wait on the fans not showing up Wait until November 19th when it’s raining and 43 degrees watching when the 3-7 host the 2-8 giants and 23k fans are there booing at halftime a 9-6 lead. See how fast Josh starts firing people

Great. Let's do it. Fire Rivera right now. Who do you replace him with? Which coach on this team is going to change the direction it's been going since 6 months before Josh bought the team?