Welcome New Owner Josh Harris

[ixcuincle]

I'm fine with River and company right now we don't need Harris upsetting the ship. That said if this team underachieves and wins 6 or 7 games max they have to move on.

 

Still a long way to go but Rivera overall he said that he has built something strong here and if he isn't kept around after this year he will still be glad because he set  a foundation of success up, and honestly you can see that. On paper they had deficiencies in the secondary re: depth and drafted Forbes and Quan Martin. Now hear me out. I seen the game last sunday live. I seen him get abused. Overall though Forbes is a solid player. He had the lowest QBR allowed for a rookie CB if you count last week out.

 

Teams gonna pick on him now after seeing that game film and he is going to answer. Just what he wants...

 

The only thing you can critique the Rivera regime for IMO are the lack of OL help this year, fine, I'll entertain that, and Wentz. But overall they have done a good job drafting talent. Taking Sam Howell and B Rob in the same class was a ****ing steal

[Warhead36]

5 minutes ago, Conn said:

You can cherry-pick great selections from almost every FO. It’s the strategy and resource usage that is a problem with this regime. The value they get. The way they maneuver in the draft and use FA. The actual players they pick are a secondary concern even though there are plenty of issues with the selections as well. 

 

 

^^this 100%.

 

I don't think they're bad at drafting per se, but they SUCK at asset management and playing the value game. 

[ixcuincle]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

^^this 100%.

 

I don't think they're bad at drafting per se, but they SUCK at asset management and playing the value game. 

I don't understand your point. Other than Wentz they have done a great job drafting / buliding a team.

 

"RIVERA CAN'T BUILD A TEAM"

 

Son who do you think scouted out Heinicke and gave him a chance to compete these last few years.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by ixcuincle

[Warhead36]

5 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

I don't understand your point. Other than Wentz they have done a great job drafting / buliding a team.

 

"RIVERA CAN'T BUILD A TEAM"

 

Son who do you think scouted out Heinicke and gave him a chance to compete these last few years.

 

 

...have you seen our OL?

 

Rivera inherited an OL featuring Trent Williams, Chase Roullier, Brandon Scherff, and Morgan Moses. One All Pro/future HOF-er, one Pro Bowler, and two rock solid starters. Now I won't kill him for Roullier, he got hurt, but the other three he let walk for essentially nothing. Again, awful value. And now the OL is a bottom 5 unit in the league.

 

In an offense driven league he's spent three of four first rounders on defense. I won't kill him too much for the Chase Young pick in 2020, but considering how THREE other franchise QBs were taken after that pick in that round(Tua, Herbert, and Hurts), again poor value.

 

He lets Trent Williams go. The next year 2021 draft he has a chance to draft his replacement in Christian Darrisaw(who is playing like a franchise LT), but instead drafts a raw OLB. Oh, the LB unit still sucks by the way.

 

And Heinicke was an awful QB. He lucked out a bunch of wins. I'm not giving him credit for signing an XFL backup who BS-ed a few wins. 

 

He's made some good draft picks. Like Conn said, most NFL coaches/FO people can find good players in the draft every now and then. But overall strategy, vision, and execution from this FO set up are lackluster at best and that's why we struggle to win ~8 games a year.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Warhead36

[Conn]

13 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

I don't understand your point. Other than Wentz they have done a great job drafting / buliding a team.

 

"RIVERA CAN'T BUILD A TEAM"

 

Son who do you think scouted out Heinicke and gave him a chance to compete these last few years.

 

 

Your defense of Rivera’s team-building acumen is to bring up the backup-level turd QB we were stuck with for multiple years? I can’t even tell if you’re trolling. How is unearthing a bad, barely NFL-worthy QB evidence of any sort of competence? Setting aside everything else (and there is PLENTY else to discuss on this topic), this is a laughable defense. 

[bh32]

1 hour ago, ixcuincle said:

He and his GM selected Samuel Howell and B Rob. The **** you talking bout.

What are you talking about? You think B Rob is some special RB? Ron's drafts lack high end talent..why do you think it's year four and they still struggle to win with any consistency? He hand picked this ****ty OL and LB's ..So yeah he needs to be gone.

[Warhead36]

17 minutes ago, bh32 said:

What are you talking about? You think B Rob is some special RB? Ron's drafts lack high end talent..why do you think it's year four and they still struggle to win with any consistency? He hand picked this ****ty OL and LB's ..So yeah he needs to be gone.

I agree with your general premise but I do like Robinson as a player overall and think he was fine value in round 3. One of the few hits RR and co. have had.

[ixcuincle]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

...have you seen our OL?

 

Rivera inherited an OL featuring Trent Williams, Chase Roullier, Brandon Scherff, and Morgan Moses. One All Pro/future HOF-er, one Pro Bowler, and two rock solid starters. Now I won't kill him for Roullier, he got hurt, but the other three he let walk for essentially nothing. Again, awful value. And now the OL is a bottom 5 unit in the league.

 

In an offense driven league he's spent three of four first rounders on defense. I won't kill him too much for the Chase Young pick in 2020, but considering how THREE other franchise QBs were taken after that pick in that round(Tua, Herbert, and Hurts), again poor value.

 

He lets Trent Williams go. The next year 2021 draft he has a chance to draft his replacement in Christian Darrisaw(who is playing like a franchise LT), but instead drafts a raw OLB. Oh, the LB unit still sucks by the way.

 

And Heinicke was an awful QB. He lucked out a bunch of wins. I'm not giving him credit for signing an XFL backup who BS-ed a few wins. 

 

He's made some good draft picks. Like Conn said, most NFL coaches/FO people can find good players in the draft every now and then. But overall strategy, vision, and execution from this FO set up are lackluster at best and that's why we struggle to win ~8 games a year.

He came aboard the second Bruce Allen left and Trent was never staying here after that. You can't blame him for that.

 

Letting Trent Williams go was a mistake, but it was due to the actions of the prior administration. Funny enough, the one person Williams didn't slam on his way out was Dan lol

1 hour ago, bh32 said:

What are you talking about? You think B Rob is some special RB? Ron's drafts lack high end talent..why do you think it's year four and they still struggle to win with any consistency? He hand picked this ****ty OL and LB's ..So yeah he needs to be gone.

Have you been watching this season hoss, he is a truck

1 hour ago, Conn said:

Your defense of Rivera’s team-building acumen is to bring up the backup-level turd QB we were stuck with for multiple years? I can’t even tell if you’re trolling. How is unearthing a bad, barely NFL-worthy QB evidence of any sort of competence? Setting aside everything else (and there is PLENTY else to discuss on this topic), this is a laughable defense. 

Have you been paying attention to the line we have been building

 

Not the O line, the d line

 

the components are there folks. And I realize we shouldn't be homers and errything ain't all roses, this is a flawed team. And Ron does take responsibility. Ron also takes responsiblity for bad comments like "I didn't know we could be eliminated" or his comments on EB. I'm not a shill.

 

Ron is not perfect. But he's done some good things here, and yinz need to recognize. The disrespect placed on his name here, smh, with the "RON HAS NOT BUILT A WINNER". He has the foundation set for one. Come on guys. The d line. The secondary is getting better. "WHAT ABOUT LAST WEEK" Aberration. "WHAT ABOUT THE BILLS GAME FORBES WAS BURNT TOAST ALL GAME"

 

At the end of the day this team is 2-2 with a good chance to go 3-2. Considering the Falcons and Giants are upcoming, they could conceivably be 5-2 heading into "the big rematch" v Philly. So let's calm down, and step away from the ledge. If this team 5-2 are we still whining.

[skinzplay]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

They obviously didn’t have conviction on Howell because they waited so long despite having a 2nd round grade on him—because they were afraid of upsetting the fragile psyche of the guy they already overpaid for in Wentz. Which also goes on this FO’s scorecard, if you forgot. They waited until it was an absolute no-brainer with no risk to finally take Howell, it’s not like they pounded the table for their guy and were right. They got insanely lucky. 

 

Competent people were begging for the trigger to be pulled on Howell (KZ and MH). They wanted him badly. RR had to be convinced. He was already set on CW. He'll of course try to take credit for Howell now. Unsurprising. Hell, maybe we would've taken Cheeseman in the damn 5th if not for two people begging for Howell.

[ixcuincle]

Josh Harris is doing a good job as owner so far. But the Philly fans are so angry at him they think he's a traitor for buying the Sixers and then buying the Commanders. The idea is lost on these simpletons that many owners own many teams that aren't in their city. Kroenke owns the Avs, the Nuggets and the Rams and I've not heard one single Denver fan call him out for not owning the Broncos. "HOW COULD YOU BACKSTAB US LIKE THIS TRAITOR"

 

Someone even flew a plane over the game Sunday. "GET LOST JOSH HARRIS". It was about him trying to remake Chinatown for the new Sixers arena or something lol. They are really mad at him there.

 

Never mind that he literally increased the value of the Sixers from an afterthought to a huge valuation.

[Conn]

59 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

Have you been paying attention to the line we have been building

 

Not the O line, the d line

 

the components are there folks. And I realize we shouldn't be homers and errything ain't all roses, this is a flawed team. And Ron does take responsibility. Ron also takes responsiblity for bad comments like "I didn't know we could be eliminated" or his comments on EB. I'm not a shill.

 

Ron is not perfect. But he's done some good things here, and yinz need to recognize. The disrespect placed on his name here, smh, with the "RON HAS NOT BUILT A WINNER". He has the foundation set for one. Come on guys. The d line. The secondary is getting better. "WHAT ABOUT LAST WEEK" Aberration. "WHAT ABOUT THE BILLS GAME FORBES WAS BURNT TOAST ALL GAME"

 

At the end of the day this team is 2-2 with a good chance to go 3-2. Considering the Falcons and Giants are upcoming, they could conceivably be 5-2 heading into "the big rematch" v Philly. So let's calm down, and step away from the ledge. If this team 5-2 are we still whining.

I expect this team to end up 5-2 or more likely 4-3 after the next few games, and yes I will still have the same issues with the current regime. 
 

I disagree on a fundamental level with you. Even just on the DL lol, it’s all hype when it matters, but you’re buying the hype. But I’m not going to rain on your parade or be annoying about it, I’m glad you’re enjoying the job Ron & Co. are doing and I hope you’re right. But in the end, I expect that there will be an even more exciting group here in 6 months that you can get more hype about, and then we’ll be on the same page. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Conn

[skinzplay]

RR had, what, something like 3 winning seasons in 10 years when hired for us? That instills confidence in nobody but someone like Snyder, who was looking to hire someone who'd be grateful for the job and therefore loyal. Despite what RR's camp tried to put out there, NO ONE among NFL owners was even remotely interested in hiring, except Snyder, during that off-season.

[dunfer]

Ron was an improvement from Jay and Bruce, but we should get a real GM. So decisions arent made with the coaches future in mind, but the teams. Ron with a good GM might not be that bad. It doesnt seem like hed be doing much though.

 

But if EB gets the offense running on all cylinders, I dont let him leave the building for another HC gig

Edited October 3, 2023 by dunfer

[skinzplay]

RR is exactly what his record says he is, and the new ownership needs no reminder of that. Middle-of-the-road Ron more so than Riverboat Ron. We deserve better, and will soon get it.

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

2 hours ago, skinzplay said:

RR is exactly what his record says he is, and the new ownership needs no reminder of that. Middle-of-the-road Ron more so than Riverboat Ron. We deserve better, and will soon get it.

 

More like Tugboat Ron than anything else...

[dunfer]

Just now, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

 

More like Tugboat Ron than anything else...

ron has a DC and an OC calling everything. We dont need a HC change...we need a GM change. HC we worry about afterward

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

8 minutes ago, dunfer said:

ron has a DC and an OC calling everything. We dont need a HC change...we need a GM change. HC we worry about afterward

 

Very few of these HCs, no matter how good they are, are also good at being a GM. For awhile it seemed like Bill Belichoke did both well, but he's starting to look like the guy who coached the Browns in the 90s. Most of the Patriots' success had to do with Tom Brady being willing to work for pennies so they had the $$$ to sign free agents...not too many guys will do that. Not oo many QBs are married to supermodels who make $40 million per year.

 

Some like to say Jimmy Johnson was a good GM too, but he only coached the Boys for 5 years and if it weren't for the stupidity of the Vikings trading 11 PLAYERS for Herschel Walker he wouldn't have had much to work with either. I don't remember him doing too well with the Dolphins...

 

The problem is too many of these guys want to have ultimate power, even when they should realize the jobs require different skillsets. Not saying a coach shouldn't have significant input into the GM process, but you really need someone to focus on personnel...the 49ers seem to be doing that quite well at the moment.

 

There's a long list of decent-to-good coaches who were mediocre GMs...Bill Parcells is one of them. He said the famous line that if you are responsible for cooking the food then you should be able to pick the vegetables. This assumes that the chef also runs the restaurant, which may be above his paygrade...of course, a good restaurant owner would work well with the chef.

 

Now I'm hungry, talking about chefs...

Edited October 3, 2023 by BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen

[dunfer]

Just now, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

 

Very few of these HCs, no matter how good they are, are also good at being a GM. For awhile it seemed like Bill Belichoke did both well, but he's starting to look like the guy who coached the Browns in the 90s. Most of the Patriots' success had to do with Tom Brady being willing to work for pennies so they had the $$$ to sign free agents...not too many guys will do that.

 

Some like to say Jimmy Johnson was a good GM too, but he only coached the Boys for 5 years and if it weren't for the stupidity of the Vikings trading 11 PLAYERS for Herschel Walker he wouldn't have had much to work with either. I don't remember him doing too well with the Dolphins...

 

The problem is too many of these guys want to have ultimate power, even when they should realize the jobs require different skillsets. Not saying a coach shouldn't have significant input into the GM process, but you really need someone to focus on personnel...the 49ers seem to be doing that quite well at the moment.

 

There's a long list of decent-to-good coaches who were mediocre GMs...Bill Parcells is one of them. He said the famous line that if you are responsible for cooking the food then you should be able to pick the vegetables. This assumes that the chef also runs the restaurant, which may be above his paygrade...of course, a good restaurant owner would work well with the chef.

 

Now I'm hungry, talking about chefs...

problem with coach gms is they trade and draft to win now even if its not the best value for the long run. i dont trust coaches on the hot seat to make solid gm moves

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

14 minutes ago, dunfer said:

problem with coach gms is they trade and draft to win now even if its not the best value for the long run. i dont trust coaches on the hot seat to make solid gm moves

 

That's right, and that's something we never had while S N Y D E R was in charge...coaches were eternally on the hot seat since they day they were hired. Hence, we got coaches who were always trying to hit a home run with personnel moves to the detriment of long-term development.

[NoVaSkins21]

They may \have their HC in waiting with EB if Harris wants to go that route.  Although it may be tough if there's an abundance of openings and EB could pick and choose what he wants.  Personally, I would prefer EB since the players really like him with a small minority who don't like his coaching style.  Mayhew is trash and has to go as GM.  Hurney isn't bad.  HC and GM would be top needs going into next year if things go south with Rivera.

[Chris 44]

Seeing a lot of people wanting EB as HC next season, personally I'm not feeling it.

I just don't see him being the face of the franchise, too rough around the edges, can't imagine him at the podium when things go south. I belive there is a reason he hasn't been hired as a HC yet. Not saying RR and crew are the answer at all. Think RR served the organization well under Snyder but that is no longer the case.

Though admittedly better than Turner im not totally convinced that the offense is that much better at utilizing the talent on the roster.

My hope is Harris hires a GM and a whole new crew is brought in. Ideally the GM is hired as soon as practical, the day we are no longer in contention. Thoughts?

Edited October 3, 2023 by Chris 44

[Stihl89]

I think the biggest thing that doesn’t make sense for me is that most of the defense has their deals up this off-season including multiple starters. The entire offensive line needs rebuilt, 2 TEs likely, BRob likely won’t be re signed as it’s rarely a good deal. So easily why 80% of the starting group is in line to be replaced within 2-3 years. 
 

But people want to continue on with as little turnover as possible? Like resign the entire defense that is overrated and or under preforming. I see this roster prime to be rebuilt from the ground up. I don’t see much value bringing back a single person. MAYBE Howell but even then I see a mid range QB ceiling right now. Personally I don’t think that’s good enough. 
 

I wouldn’t be heartbroken if every single player coach and front office member that is currently employed by Josh Harris is gone by the start of the 2025 season. 
 

This is the biggest problem with the roster. Elite talent Carries in this league. This team doesn’t have any. It’s mostly a decent team across the board that doesn’t have any glaring weakness outside of Oline. Lacks stars. Especially at the impact positions. For all the love Terry gets he’s just not a star. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Stihl89

[Warhead36]

Yep the only guy on our team who has a chance at being a real game changing star is Young. We have seen some flashes of it through four games. I think McLaurin is close but he's not as physically imposing as say someone like AJ Brown that we saw last week. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 hours ago, dunfer said:

problem with coach gms is they trade and draft to win now even if its not the best value for the long run. i dont trust coaches on the hot seat to make solid gm moves

What’s odd though is Ron the GM acts as though he has a 10 year plan.  None of the mo es he makes are really win now type moves. 
 

A win now move would have been to trade up dramatically in the draft, sacrificing future year picks to grab players, signing big money deals and pushing the cap hits into years 5,6 and 7 with a lot of voided years. 
 

Ron’s done none of that.  
 

He’s gone the other way.  Which is really odd.  

[Stihl89]

28 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

What’s odd though is Ron the GM acts as though he has a 10 year plan.  None of the mo es he makes are really win now type moves. 
 

A win now move would have been to trade up dramatically in the draft, sacrificing future year picks to grab players, signing big money deals and pushing the cap hits into years 5,6 and 7 with a lot of voided years. 
 

Ron’s done none of that.  
 

He’s gone the other way.  Which is really odd.  

Still think his goal is just to be in the hunt and hope for the best. And imo he’s built that. Really well too. Just think that plan is bad goal. That plan might have been ok decades ago but not now. Something like 55% of conference championship games have been 1v2 for the last 13 years. The just get in doesn’t work. This isn’t the nhl