2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[samy316]

10 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

What kind of NIL money you think he's looking at? Not being a smart ass, I just have no idea.

These guys are now making more NIL money, than they would per year as NFL rookies.  If Williams makes anywhere north of $5 Million this year in NIL, he could definitely force his will to avoid being drafted by Arizona, or stay for 1 more year at USC.  He’s already made about $3 Million in NIL money so far, due to his Nike deal.  We’re in a new chapter as far as player mobility goes.  NIL money should definitely have done it these bottom feeder teams that pick near the top of the draft concerned.  It almost makes sense for potential top picks to think twice about being drafted to bad teams, and exerting some pressure.

Edited August 28, 2023 by samy316

[zCommander]

4 hours ago, Going Commando said:

Ceiling = 12 wins.

Floor = 11 wins.

 

We're going to have an epic battle with the Cowboys for the division.

 

For me the floor is 10 and the ceiling is SB win.

 

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

Cards are cutting their chances at success like some emo kid who has hit rock bottom.

Good for us. Were gonna pound those guys through the pavement.

 

Week 1 get healthy game. lol

There is talk in Phoenix (unnamed sources say type stuff so take this on that basis) that Murray might not play at all this season.

[@DCGoldPants]

48 minutes ago, MartinC said:

There is talk in Phoenix (unnamed sources say type stuff so take this on that basis) that Murray might not play at all this season.

 

Actually think this is the right move. Should have done that here with RG3 in 2013. What I don't get is how the numbers work if AZ would want to move on from Murray in 24. That contract is terrible. Maybe tank, try the top pick and trade that for a boatload with Murray fully healed? 

[MartinC]

12 minutes ago, @DCGoldPants said:

 

Actually think this is the right move. Should have done that here with RG3 in 2013. What I don't get is how the numbers work if AZ would want to move on from Murray in 24. That contract is terrible. Maybe tank, try the top pick and trade that for a boatload with Murray fully healed? 

The cap hit to move him before next season is huge. I think they are tied to him until 2025 at the earliest. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Albert Breer on 106.7.  Playing off of the Howell article he wrote which I posted on the Qb thread.

 

A.  Harris is waiting to see how things unfold.  Coaching-FO are audtioning for their job

 

B.  Nagy was considered the successor to Reid not Bieniemy.  Nagy worked closer with Mahomes than Bieniemy.  Though Breer is high on Bieniemy

 

C.  They were committed to Wentz.  But Howell's value was too hard to pass on hence they took hiim

 

D.  the players on the roster talked to Rivera and worked to convince him that Howell was the guy

 

E.  O line is the X favor for this team.  Do they win 6 games or 10 games, he says its tied to the O line which he thinks is a queston mark.  If the O line comes together they can be in the playoff chase.  If it crumbles he's seen better stacked teams being taken down by a bad offensive line than the commanders.

 

F.  He's very high on this defense

[Voice_of_Reason]

11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

don't recall much negativity about him.  for me it was just higher pedigreed centers were cheaper or around the same price.  I don't get the vibe from the beat guys that they have been blown away by Gates play.  But he brings a nastiniess to that unit.

Mitch (not beat guy watches a lot of the OL and played OL I think) said Gates was his favorite OL player since Trent.  JP agreed.  
 

Not best, just favorite.

 

take it for what it’s worth.  Neither of them are analysts.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Voice_of_Reason said:

Mitch (not beat guy watches a lot of the OL and played OL I think) said Gates was his favorite OL player since Trent.  JP agreed.  
 

Not best, just favorite.

 

take it for what it’s worth.  Neither of them are analysts.  

 

cool.  I am not worried about Gates when it comes to the O line aside from his run blocking.   I got other issues. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

15 minutes ago, MartinC said:

The cap hit to move him before next season is huge. I think they are tied to him until 2025 at the earliest. 

Like 85m huge.  It’s 2025 before there is even a remote opportunity…

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Going Commando said:

They're tanking for Caleb Williams?  It's going to be an incredibly messy situation with Kyler Murray.

The problem is they just can’t get rid of Murray for at least 1 year, and then when they do it’s still a cap anchor.

 

I don’t think they are tanking for Caleb.  I think they’re tanking for the #1 pick which they will trade.

[MartinC]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

cool.  I am not worried about Gates when it comes to the O line aside from his run blocking.   I got other issues. 

I’d say Wylie is the biggest worry on the starting 5 - which is not to say Charles and LG is no longer a concern/question.

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The problem is they just can’t get rid of Murray for at least 1 year, and then when they do it’s still a cap anchor.

 

I don’t think they are tanking for Caleb.  I think they’re tanking for the #1 pick which they will trade.

Now that Snyder is no more the Cards might have the worst owner in football in Bidwell. Heaven knows what their plan is. As long as losing to us week 1 is part of said plan I could care less!

[Chris 44]

37 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Albert Breer on 106.7.  Playing off of the Howell article he wrote which I posted on the Qb thread.

 

A.  Harris is waiting to see how things unfold.  Coaching-FO are audtioning for their job

 

B.  Nagy was considered the successor to Reid not Bieniemy.  Nagy worked closer with Mahomes than Bieniemy.  Though Breer is high on Bieniemy

 

C.  They were committed to Wentz.  But Howell's value was too hard to pass on hence they took hiim

 

D.  the players on the roster talked to Rivera and worked to convince him that Howell was the guy

 

E.  O line is the X favor for this team.  Do they win 6 games or 10 games, he says its tied to the O line which he thinks is a queston mark.  If the O line comes together they can be in the playoff chase.  If it crumbles he's seen better stacked teams being taken down by a bad offensive line than the commanders.

 

F.  He's very high on this defense

Thats a roundabout way of giving high praise to Howell if Breer believes the difference between 6 wins and 10 is the o line. As if in  Breer's eyes, it's a foregone conclusion that Howell is a legit NFL starter.

[SkinsFTW]

2 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

For me the floor is 10 and the ceiling is SB win.

 

 

You forgot to pass the bong bro...

[oraphus]

Anyone else think its ridiculous that teams can just full on tank (Cards for Caleb) without even trying to hide it in todays NFL and NFL doesn't do **** about it?! 

I know, i know.. no guarantees he will be great in the NFL and it can easily backfire ala Luck with Colts... but still. 

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I’d say Wylie is the biggest worry on the starting 5 - which is not to say Charles and LG is no longer a concern/question.

 

 

for me, too.

 

It's that Wylie might be below average

LG is a wild card and even if we went with S. Charles is the right guy can he stay healthy?

Gates is a cool character but as a player by reputation he's just OK.

Leno will be 32 and struggled last season when he got banged up, apparenty he's already banged up

Cosmi is good but he hasn't stayed healthy so far.

 

So IMO too many question marks to count on everything working out.  But you never know.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Thats a roundabout way of giving high praise to Howell if Breer believes the difference between 6 wins and 10 is the o line. As if in  Breer's eyes, it's a foregone conclusion that Howell is a legit NFL starter.

 

Agree.

 

I among others have taken some flak for agreeing with the consensus that the O line is an issue.   But at the same time, I among some of these same critics of the O line are optimistic about Howell.

 

Heck three different beat reporters watching camp said O line is their concern not Howell.

 

If Howell is good, that is clearly a much bigger deal than the O line being up to snuff.  So if we got our QB, that means a lot to say the least.  The O line can be fixed in the next off season by a more competent FO if need be.

 

But I am loving all the optimsim about Howell and I share it.

 

I don't agree with @Going Commando about 11-6 being this team's floor.  I think he's one season premature.  But if they change this regime and they focus on fixing this weakness.  I can see his 2023 prediction be on the money for 2024.  I'd love for him to be right about 2023 but my gut is nope.  But I think in 2024 there is a good shot for their best season since 1991.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[MartinC]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree.

 

I among others have taken some flak for agreeing with the consensus that the O line is an issue.   But at the same time, I among some of these same critics of the O line are optimistic about Howell.

 

Heck three different beat reporters watching camp said O line is their concern not Howell.

 

If Howell is good, that is clearly a much bigger deal than the O line being up to snuff.  So if we got our QB, that means a lot to say the least.  The O line can be fixed in the next off season by a more competent FO if need be.

 

But I am loving all the optimsim about Howell and I share it.

 

I don't agree with @Going Commando about 11-6 being this team's floor.  I think he's one season premature.  But if they change this regime and they focus on fixing this weakness.  I can see his 2023 prediction be on the money for 2024.  I'd love for him to be right about 2023 but my gut is nope.  But I think in 2024 there is a good shot for their best season since 1991.

I’d assumed he was being tounge in cheek about that although he’s very bullish on this roster. I think most of us would see the ceiling at 11 wins this season - that would be a hell of an achievement with what is essentially a rookie QB behind an iffy O’line. 

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I’d assumed he was being tounge in cheek about that although he’s very bullish on this roster. I think most of us would see the ceiling at 11 wins this season - that would be a hell of an achievement with what is essentially a rookie QB behind an iffy O’line. 

 

Yeah I don't think @Going Commando was being tongue and cheek considering his other upbeat posts.  Heck for example on what we are talking about he's said multiple times he thinks Wylie is likely an above average player let alone a weak point.  He's very bullish.  That's his 2nd post about this division being about us versus Dallas for the division.

 

But I gather it he's kidding to some extent, he'd let us know soon. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Just got the SI football issue.  From all the National pundits, magazines, etc., I've seen 4th everywhere except one of the PFF guys prediction third.

 

If this team indeed has some breakout season, these guys are all going to look foolish.  Not that it hasn't happened before.  😎

 

SI predicting 7-10 which is actually nicer than some other predictions I've read. 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

SI predicting 7-10 which is actually nicer than some other predictions I've read. 

 

Good to see some people ranking us closer to where we should be.

Its really annoying to see some of the lower media predictions.

 

Does SI have the NFC BEast as the best div?

[HigSkin]

5 hours ago, Going Commando said:

They're tanking for Caleb Williams?  It's going to be an incredibly messy situation with Kyler Murray.

 

For sure but they have a chance to reload next year because not only their own first rounder, they have Houstons as well which is likely to be high.  Imagine if they got a first rounder for Murray too.  Sheesh...

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If this team indeed has some breakout season, these guys are all going to look foolish.  Not that it hasn't happened before.  😎

It happens literally every single season.

 

I bet if you go back to last year you see consistent big season for Tampa and Green Bay, both flopped.  
 

All the prognosticators are about 60% wrong every season.  

[Going Commando]

4 hours ago, MartinC said:

I’d assumed he was being tounge in cheek about that although he’s very bullish on this roster. I think most of us would see the ceiling at 11 wins this season - that would be a hell of an achievement with what is essentially a rookie QB behind an iffy O’line. 

 

I'm not being tongue in cheek, I'm making a point that making ceiling/floor predictions that apply to 29 of the teams in the league are weak and uninteresting claims.  Feels like we're taking our prediction format cues from the incredibly stupid and boring ESPN predictions article from a week ago, where every team had the same dumb write up and projection.  If we're going to make predictions, have confidence in them and do it without couching them to cover every possible scenario under the sun.  I think we're going to have a great season and win 11-12 games.  There is no point in predicting a floor that deviates from that.  To me, these 8 win seasons of the past few years were the floor for the team, and we have improved the team so fundamentally this year that we're just going to be better.  The upgrades we made at QB and OC alone are good for three more wins, and every other part of the roster is better too, including the OL.  We just competed on an even footing with a stacked AFC North, and there is good mojo and sense of identity in our building this year.  Ron has never been this loose or seemed to enjoy his job here more.  He's dropping F bombs to the media and letting his nuts swing and the whole team is following his lead.  Reminds me of how he was with that Carolina team that went 15-1 and took goofy team photos on the sidelines during a game after a 30 point beat down.  We're not as good as that team was, but I do think we're as good as the one that went 12-4 and laid the foundation for that championship run.

[KDawg]

Floors are a worst case scenario, ceiling la are a best case. Football is a game of unpredictability and strange occurrences.

 

Anyone who thinks they can predict a team’s record is full of it. There are too many variables. 
 

But hey, maybe you end up right. 
 

 

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

8 hours ago, HigSkin said:

 

For sure but they have a chance to reload next year because not only their own first rounder, they have Houstons as well which is likely to be high.  Imagine if they got a first rounder for Murray too.  Sheesh...

No one in their right mind would give a first for Kyler Murray, who already in his short time in the NFL has been just OK and kind of a pain in the ass.

 

Different subject: I'm surprised more folks aren't giving love to the Giants. I see them making the playoffs a lot more than I do the Cowboys. Ron's rightfully gone if he still ends up with 7-8 wins.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Professor_Nutter_Butter