2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[redskinss]

24 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Who picked him up?  Tresses stand in didnt look bad either.

Titans

[RandyHolt]

26 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Who picked him up?  Tresses stand in didnt look bad either.

Titans. 

[skinny21]

6 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Patterson had a very good game against Dallas last game of last season. Has some good tape out there out played Williams in that game, hope we keep him on practice squad. Very Quick but not all that fast for small size.  

Yeah, he’s a bowling ball.  A duck pin bowling ball, but still…

 

Good vision and contact balance as well and his hands are pretty good.  Pass pro and lack of speed are killers though.  As an insurance policy on the PS?  I like it.

 

[Tarpon75]

14 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Patterson had a very good game against Dallas last game of last season. Has some good tape out there out played Williams in that game, hope we keep him on practice squad. Very Quick but not all that fast for small size.  

I would like to see him make the 53 man roster. He is instinctive has great balance and runs hard.Home grown product with a great attitude!

[JSSkinz]

I hate turf toe, gotta be the most annoying injury for a WR. Let's hope he can plant and cut by week one. However bad it is you might as well let it fully heal or it will drag out all season.

[MartinC]

27 minutes ago, LetMeSeeYourWarFace21 said:

 

 

Even if he's feeling better by week 1, I wouldnt be opposed to sitting him that first game against Arizona. Don't want to, but if it's one team I'd feel somewhat confident in going against without Terry, it would be Arizona. 

While I agree about not rushing him back we are not a team who can look past anyone. Arizona certainly are a team we need to be beating if we are going to hear a successful season and we need to get off to a fast start - but don’t take them too lightly. 
 

They have a strong running game and lots of good athletes on defense. They will come to play. 

[bearrock]

I think it's less a matter of can we beat someone without TM as much as ensuring that he doesn't suffer long term injury or other issues from playing with turf toe.  Jordan Reed for example is a player who firmly believes that rushing back after turf toe affected his ability to evade hits and led to his concussions.  Players have also injured other leg or ankle compensating for the toe.  TM should be completely healed before cleared back.

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

He got totally scorched on his INT, but was allowed time to recover due to a woefully late ball..

What was funny was Troy trying desperately to give him credit for the INT while at the same time being "dude, you got as lucky as a geek dating the prom queen on that."  (I can say this as a self professed geek. I did not date the prom queen.)

 

You could almost see his internal debate of "he made a good play, but damn he was out of position. How exactly do I say both?" 

[757SeanTaylor21]

Pain tolerance shouldn't be looked at as the way to letting the Mac play. If we forego 1-2 games without him so he can be fully healed then that's the way to go. Otherwise we would be having a 85% mac for the year that could legit make it worse and or permanently damage the toe.

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If Dotson stays healthy, he will be a superstar IMO.

Dotson and Terry could be the best duo of receivers in the league for a few years if both stay healthy and there is stability at QB.  

 

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

Ya just saw part of the Wildgoose stuff.

 

Needed to cut a bunch of DBs anyways.

When I saw him out there, I was like, "yeah, ok, so this is going to be FASCINATING."  And it was illuminating.  I guess.  

[Dark Acre]

McLaurin = Monk, Dotson = Clark.  Where's Ricky Sanders?

[NewCliche21]

Watched the game with my kid, the first half anyway. He got to see a real quarterback play. 

 

I can't tell you what that meant. Like, wow.  In the best way.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Tress Is The Way said:

Depending on the grade of it, two to three week recovery time. Shut him down until the regular season

There is no way you see him until Arizona. They will be extremely conservative with it.  

 

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

What do we do with Jaret Patterson? Practice squad? That was a great TD he had last night, I had actually forgot we had him. 

Also, it seems as though we have a deep group of WR's including Milne, Pringle, Tinsley and Kaz Allen. Samuel hardly got in the mix last night while Dyami Brown did.

Our practice squad is gonna be pretty solid at this rate. Jonathon Williams can still run too for RB depth. 

Patterson probably goes to PS. The way RBs are, he'll make the PS.  I really think he could make a roster and contribute.  I wonder if there is a team out there which needs a RB2 who can play a bit. I wouldn't fault him for leaving. 

 

I don't think they can carry that many RBs because they will want to carry more OL depth, is my guess.  They have at least 1 red shirt player (Daniels) they have to keep.  Stromboli might also be a red shirt guy.  

 

I think Samuel not getting in the game a lot was kindof interesting. It seems like Brown is pushing Samuel for the 3rd WR option.  Which is both good and interesting.  Good because that means just letting Samuel go at the end of the season is a lot easier, interesting because Brown has been somewhere between irrelevant and invisible the last 2 seasons.  Good seeing him develop.  I wonder how much of that is him, and how much was REDACTED not having the arm to really use his strengths.  

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

Nah. Dotson looks like he’s going to be really good - but let’s not forget just how good Terry is. 
 

That said having a 1A and 1B is going to be very very good for a young QB.

 

Troy was GUSHING about Terry.  If Howell turns out to be "good" or "very good" and EB is who some of us think he is as an OC, then we're going to possibly have two 1,000 receivers, maybe 3 depending on which TE gets the most targets.  If Logan Thomas plays all year, I could see him getting to 1000. If Turner is the starter and plays all year, I could see him getting to 1000.  If they split it, they won't.  

 

But I'd book on combination of Terry, Dotson and top 2 TEs each getting 1,000 yards in this offense.  Before anybody goes crazy, a 1000 yard receiver in a 17 game season is 58 yards a game.  Which is good. But not like you have to be Jerry Rice to do it.  

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 minutes ago, Dark Acre said:

Where's Ricky Sanders?

I know a guy who said that pretty famously once.   

 

Btw, I don't think McLaurin is Monk.  I think Terry has more deep-ball ability than Monk did.  

 

I actually don't think Dotson is Clark either.  The guy who's game aligns to Clark the most is actually Brown.  He's just nowhere near as good as Clark.  

 

 

[MartinC]

8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

There is no way you see him until Arizona. They will be extremely conservative with it.  

 

Patterson probably goes to PS. The way RBs are, he'll make the PS.  I really think he could make a roster and contribute.  I wonder if there is a team out there which needs a RB2 who can play a bit. I wouldn't fault him for leaving. 

 

I don't think they can carry that many RBs because they will want to carry more OL depth, is my guess.  They have at least 1 red shirt player (Daniels) they have to keep.  Stromboli might also be a red shirt guy.  

 

I think Samuel not getting in the game a lot was kindof interesting. It seems like Brown is pushing Samuel for the 3rd WR option.  Which is both good and interesting.  Good because that means just letting Samuel go at the end of the season is a lot easier, interesting because Brown has been somewhere between irrelevant and invisible the last 2 seasons.  Good seeing him develop.  I wonder how much of that is him, and how much was REDACTED not having the arm to really use his strengths.  

 

Troy was GUSHING about Terry.  If Howell turns out to be "good" or "very good" and EB is who some of us think he is as an OC, then we're going to possibly have two 1,000 receivers, maybe 3 depending on which TE gets the most targets.  If Logan Thomas plays all year, I could see him getting to 1000. If Turner is the starter and plays all year, I could see him getting to 1000.  If they split it, they won't.  

 

But I'd book on combination of Terry, Dotson and top 2 TEs each getting 1,000 yards in this offense.  Before anybody goes crazy, a 1000 yard receiver in a 17 game season is 58 yards a game.  Which is good. But not like you have to be Jerry Rice to do it.  

 

Assuming health/availability I can totally see Terry putting up career numbers and Dotson being close to or over 1k. I have a hard time seeing one of our TEs get close to that mark though - the ball will be spread around quite a bit with backs getting more targets than we have seen before.

 

I know that TEs saw a lot of targets in KC but we don’t have anyone close to Travis Kelce and our #1 TE can’t seem to stay healthy. 

To your point it will be interesting to see if Brown can start to take #3 snaps away from Samuels on a more regular basis. I’m not sure he will - Samuels has a role in this offense.
 

I doubt we want Sam throwing it 40+ times a game. He’s a young developing QB.

[mhd24]

Robinson, Gibson, and Rodriguez are locks as the first three RBs.  The question is if we keep Williams or Patterson or decide to only keep 3 RBs.  Williams has the edge as he can play teams.  That's huge as Rodriguez is probably deactivated on game days early in the season because he can't play teams (yet).  

[Voice_of_Reason]

10 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I doubt we want Sam throwing it 40+ times a game. He’s a young developing QB.

ehhhhhh.  I don't think 40+ times a game.  

 

However I totally see between 35-40. With A LOT of quick-game, short "nuisance" throws.  

 

Let's say you have 70 plays per game on offense, which is roughly league average.  You're not going to see a 50/50 Run/Pass split in this offense.  It's going to be somewhere around 55/45.  Which is again, around league average.  40 passes would be 57%. I think that's kindof what you're looking at... somewhere just shy of 40 passes.   

 

It's more philosophy driven than anything: I think EB is going to want to get balls to Terry, Dotson, Samuel, Brown, Thomas and Turner in the passing game.  That's 6 guys.  I also think he's going to want to get a few catches for the RBs.  You can't do that if you're only throwing the ball 25-30 times.  In order to achieve balance, I think they're going to lean more on the short pass to spread the ball around. Remember what Mike Leach said, "Running 50% is 50% stupid." (Paraphrased.)  Balance is getting a lot of different players to touch the ball, not one player touching the ball a lot.    

 

That's just a hunch.  But it's basically the way all of the WCO coach's not named Shanahan (either one) do it. The Shanahan's are/were SO committed to the run, the math changes somewhat.  But all the other true WCO, and Andy Reid disciples, basically go with this concept.   

[MartinC]

6 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

ehhhhhh.  I don't think 40+ times a game.  

 

However I totally see between 35-40. With A LOT of quick-game, short "nuisance" throws.  

 

Let's say you have 70 plays per game on offense, which is roughly league average.  You're not going to see a 50/50 Run/Pass split in this offense.  It's going to be somewhere around 55/45.  Which is again, around league average.  40 passes would be 57%. I think that's kindof what you're looking at... somewhere just shy of 40 passes.   

 

It's more philosophy driven than anything: I think EB is going to want to get balls to Terry, Dotson, Samuel, Brown, Thomas and Turner in the passing game.  That's 6 guys.  I also think he's going to want to get a few catches for the RBs.  You can't do that if you're only throwing the ball 25-30 times.  In order to achieve balance, I think they're going to lean more on the short pass to spread the ball around. Remember what Mike Leach said, "Running 50% is 50% stupid." (Paraphrased.)  Balance is getting a lot of different players to touch the ball, not one player touching the ball a lot.    

 

That's just a hunch.  But it's basically the way all of the WCO coach's not named Shanahan (either one) do it. The Shanahan's are/were SO committed to the run, the math changes somewhat.  But all the other true WCO, and Andy Reid disciples, basically go with this concept.   

 Agree with pretty much everything here apart from perhaps the ball distribution. We heard a lot during camp about the volume of targets backs were getting - lets see how that carries over. I think they will want to get Gibson a lot of touches in the passing game. It will be interesting to see how EB brings this all together.

 

We have not looked great in the running game so far this preseason - we might be substituting some run plays with quick game passing which is very much true WCO! I'd love to see us be pass heavy on 1st down.

[moondog]

Kendall Fuller is really interesting to me. Keim said on his podcast a few days ago that he thinks he knows what’s going on with him but didn’t want to say anything until he knows for sure. This is in reference to him not playing at all in the two preseason games. 
 

He practiced against the ravens so I know he’s not injured but Keim alluding to there being “something” has me wondering if they’re trying to keep him healthy for a potential trade. 
 

I know it’s been thrown around here some but I personally hate that idea. We have really good depth at corner and safety overall but BSJ has shown injury concerns his first two years and I think Quan still needs some seasoning before significant playing time. Fuller isn’t all world but he has been durable and a strong player for us. We finally have the secondary to pair with our dline that should give guys like sweat the extra moment they need to get home. 
 

I doubt fuller fetches anything more than a fifth rounder at most given he’s a little older and just doesn’t have the name recognition. I think he’s worth more than that to us to stay and provide more flexibility and depth (yes he’s a starter but in terms of injuries to other corners). 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, MartinC said:

 Agree with pretty much everything here apart from perhaps the ball distribution. We heard a lot during camp about the volume of targets backs were getting - lets see how that carries over. I think they will want to get Gibson a lot of touches in the passing game. It will be interesting to see how EB brings this all together.

 

We have not looked great in the running game so far this preseason - we might be substituting some run plays with quick game passing which is very much true WCO! I'd love to see us be pass heavy on 1st down.

Take that old Jay Gruden/Scott Turner run for 0 yards play out of the playbook, PLEASE.  Whatever EB does, that needs to change.

 

The only sequence of plays I quibbled with was after a penalty, on first and 20, they ran, then I think they ran again, did something meaningless on 3rd and long and punted.  I hope they don't take that approach in real games.  

 

As far as distribution is concerned: who are the best players to have the ball in their hands?  I'd say 1 and 1a are Terry and Dotson, and it's not close.  After that, it gets murky.  Samuel? Brown? Gibby? Robinson?  Thomas? Who's the #3 target?  I think it's unanswered at the moment.

 

I think the number of RB touches is a constant.  The question is going to be, do they hand it off to them or throw it to them?  If they can't run the ball well, then they'll replace those runs with throws to the RBs.  Which will increase the number of overall throws, but not decrease the targets to WRs/TEs.  Again, that's a hunch.  

 

One thing Reid did really well throughout his career as an offensive mind: figure out who are your best weapons and get them the damn ball early and often. Turner never did that with Terry.  I think EB is going to.  

[LetMeSeeYourWarFace21]

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

While I agree about not rushing him back we are not a team who can look past anyone. Arizona certainly are a team we need to be beating if we are going to hear a successful season and we need to get off to a fast start - but don’t take them too lightly. 
 

They have a strong running game and lots of good athletes on defense. They will come to play. 

 

Obviously......

 

that's why I said: "Don't want to, but if it's one team I'd feel somewhat confident in going against without Terry, it would be Arizona. "

 

I'm a Redskins fan. I'm scarred, I can't/don't sleep on ANY team. If we played a high school team, I'd want my best players in the game. But if I had to pick a team to sit Terry against, its probably Arizona.....

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, moondog said:

Kendall Fuller is really interesting to me. Keim said on his podcast a few days ago that he thinks he knows what’s going on with him but didn’t want to say anything until he knows for sure. This is in reference to him not playing at all in the two preseason games. 
 

He practiced against the ravens so I know he’s not injured but Keim alluding to there being “something” has me wondering if they’re trying to keep him healthy for a potential trade. 
 

I know it’s been thrown around here some but I personally hate that idea. We have really good depth at corner and safety overall but BSJ has shown injury concerns his first two years and I think Quan still needs some seasoning before significant playing time. Fuller isn’t all world but he has been durable and a strong player for us. We finally have the secondary to pair with our dline that should give guys like sweat the extra moment they need to get home. 
 

I doubt fuller fetches anything more than a fifth rounder at most given he’s a little older and just doesn’t have the name recognition. I think he’s worth more than that to us to stay and provide more flexibility and depth (yes he’s a starter but in terms of injuries to other corners). 

 

Yeah, it could also be health for the season.

 

I think you undervalue the value of a very skilled starting CB though.  I think there's a higher value than a 5th round pick. That said, I don't think they're trading ANYBODY for future picks.  Why would they?  They need to win now, not build for the future. I could see them flipping a piece for an OT though.  If they could flip Fuller for a starting tackle, maybe flip Leno from Left to right, that might be a good thing overall.  

 

I personally think you can't have enough CBs ever. That said, I also think you can't have enough OL ever also.  So, if they traded for an OL and had to give up a CB, I'd be ok with it.

 

I wouldn't be ok trading a CB for a pick unless it was a 1st or 2nd though.  

[moondog]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yeah, it could also be health for the season.

 

I think you undervalue the value of a very skilled starting CB though.  I think there's a higher value than a 5th round pick. That said, I don't think they're trading ANYBODY for future picks.  Why would they?  They need to win now, not build for the future. I could see them flipping a piece for an OT though.  If they could flip Fuller for a starting tackle, maybe flip Leno from Left to right, that might be a good thing overall.  

 

I personally think you can't have enough CBs ever. That said, I also think you can't have enough OL ever also.  So, if they traded for an OL and had to give up a CB, I'd be ok with it.

 

I wouldn't be ok trading a CB for a pick unless it was a 1st or 2nd though.  

I personally think he’s worth more than a fifth I’m just speculating on the way the market seems to work for player trades. That’s why I want to keep him. And I don’t think and definitely hope they aren’t looking to move him. I agree wholeheartedly with you about never having enough good corners. 
 

Just struck me as odd that a clued in guy like Keim specifically mentioned something. 

[MartinC]

5 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

As far as distribution is concerned: who are the best players to have the ball in their hands?  I'd say 1 and 1a are Terry and Dotson, and it's not close.  After that, it gets murky.  Samuel? Brown? Gibby? Robinson?  Thomas? Who's the #3 target?  I think it's unanswered at the moment.

I think that will be/should be matchup dependent.

 

5 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think the number of RB touches is a constant.  The question is going to be, do they hand it off to them or throw it to them?  If they can't run the ball well, then they'll replace those runs with throws to the RBs.  Which will increase the number of overall throws, but not decrease the targets to WRs/TEs.  Again, that's a hunch.  

 

One thing Reid did really well throughout his career as an offensive mind: figure out who are your best weapons and get them the damn ball early and often. Turner never did that with Terry.  I think EB is going to.  

 

Agreed. It used to bug me that we never really seemed to scheme to get the ball to Terry - he’d not see targets for what seemed like ages in some games. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

 

Not out of the woods yet, but good news is always appreciated.