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2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

Conn

By Conn
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HTTSkins

HTTSkins

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Posted
On 8/17/2023 at 3:23 PM, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think that was partially due to timing.  The Falcons weren't going to trade Ryan until it came out they flirted with Watson, then they had to trade him.

 

The flirtation hadn't happened yet, so the Falcons weren't trading Ryan.

 

Another possibility is Ryan told the Falcons he really didn't want to go to the Dan Snyder circus in Washington, and they politely obliged.  Because it also came out the Falcons were going to help Ryan get where he wanted to go, at least to some extent. 

 

I think if Ron had just sat pat for a bit longer, they might have had a shot at Ryan.  I posted then and I still believe the shot on Wentz was better than taking a shot with Ryan.  In the end, both failed.  

Ryan stumbling around like a newborn calf is as bad as Wentz and glad we finally went young again 

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XxSpearheadxX

XxSpearheadxX

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8 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Bates is gonna have a big year.

Seeing as drops has been his worst problem it sucks he had that slippery field/ball drop against the browns. I'm positive he will be fine with catches in games. His blocking is great and we are going to need it a ton this year. 

 

Need Armah to step up also, we need all the help we can chipping the right side of our line all year long

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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

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2 hours ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

Seeing as drops has been his worst problem it sucks he had that slippery field/ball drop against the browns. I'm positive he will be fine with catches in games. His blocking is great and we are going to need it a ton this year. 

 

Need Armah to step up also, we need all the help we can chipping the right side of our line all year long

Huge fan of the FB/TE and really excited about Armah. Hodges catches more balls than Thomas does healthy starts, so I think he makes the roster. 

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bowhunter

bowhunter

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1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Huge fan of the FB/TE and really excited about Armah. Hodges catches more balls than Thomas does healthy starts, so I think he makes the roster. 

Like you, I love the thought of having a FB on the roster. Flashbacks of Mike Sellers give me chills. So I took a look at Armahs career and now I'm not so sure.  He's bounced around between teams, active rosters, waived, PS and so forth.  He's played in 57 games so far. Has 26 carries for a total of 56 yards (add 9 receptions for 30 yards if you want to call him multi purpose) Career total combined for 4 touchdowns. Wouldn't we get equal production from just handing the ball to Jonathan Allen and preserving a roster spot until a more talented FB becomes available?

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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

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17 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

Like you, I love the thought of having a FB on the roster. Flashbacks of Mike Sellers give me chills. So I took a look at Armahs career and now I'm not so sure.  He's bounced around between teams, active rosters, waived, PS and so forth.  He's played in 57 games so far. Has 26 carries for a total of 56 yards (add 9 receptions for 30 yards if you want to call him multi purpose) Career total combined for 4 touchdowns. Wouldn't we get equal production from just handing the ball to Jonathan Allen and preserving a roster spot until a more talented FB becomes available?

I don't care. TE3/FB would be great and since we don't have OL that block, a FB would be super helpful.

13 minutes ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

@bowhunterArmah is here for his pass and run blocking not carrying the bow 

I know, but our deficiency at TE might get him on the 53.

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Wildbunny

Wildbunny

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4 hours ago, bowhunter said:

Like you, I love the thought of having a FB on the roster. Flashbacks of Mike Sellers give me chills. So I took a look at Armahs career and now I'm not so sure.  He's bounced around between teams, active rosters, waived, PS and so forth.  He's played in 57 games so far. Has 26 carries for a total of 56 yards (add 9 receptions for 30 yards if you want to call him multi purpose) Career total combined for 4 touchdowns. Wouldn't we get equal production from just handing the ball to Jonathan Allen and preserving a roster spot until a more talented FB becomes available?

Stas have always been a bad way to look at FB productivity.

NFL Offfense have started getting rid of them, years ago to put an extra WR on the field. Which is sad, because FB were great to have and usually multi purpose backs that used to run, catch and block all over the field.

 

More often than not, their job was to open the pathway for the RB behind them by taking the first DL/LB they saw and grab a few extra yard, then turning a 1 yard run into a 3/4 yard run.

 

But that doesn't display in stats.

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KDawg

KDawg

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3 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

Stas have always been a bad way to look at FB productivity.

 

 

I will quibble here.

 

Stats are a bad way to paint a full picture, but not a bad thing to use in the process of painting the full picture.

 

People use stats because they are a reflection of the action on the field. But without context, stats are useless. 

 

Having said that, fullbacks led the way for running backs because that was how plays were designed. In the "new" (it's not new) 1x systems where one back has been more prevalent, OCs scheme other ways for a lead blocker. The traditional power and counter are ways to get a "fullback" type player leading through a hole and working to the next level. 

 

That's not to say the hard nosed fullbacks of the past didn't aide in that. They had a job and those that did it well contributed quite a bit to the running back's numbers. But the fullback was an extension of the offensive line but the added extra ability to run and catch made them a bit more versatile. 

 

When I see someone's rushing numbers, I always think of the offensive line that helped pave the path. Now, to be fair, the running backs still have a lot to do with that. Backs without a ton of vision aren't gaining high rushing totals even with the best OL ever assembled. They just don't see the alleys created and miss out on a lot of yards. But teams with high rushing totals generally have backs with good vision and an OL that can open seams (even if they aren't dominant). They are a total of parts. 

 

However, based on the CONTEXT (I capitalized for emphasis) that you're replying to bowhunter here, I understand your sentiment entirely. Citing a fullback's attempts/yard totals is a bit dismissive of what a fullback really does. 

 

So what would that be? It allows for different scheme usage and personnel groupings. With a fullback we could be in more 2x or "heavier" personnel sets. 

 

It allows us to utilize more "man" blocking schemes versus zone or gap schemes. So a traditional lead or iso type play... and that could help our OL who struggles in space. It gets an athlete on an athlete at the second level of blocking when the fullback is LB responsible. 

 

Quick traps for quick yards become a much more realistic playcall as well.

 

The issue with fullbacks in the current NFL landscape is the overall athleticism of all the players on the field. So there aren't many guys who went to HS and college and said, "you know what? Let me be a running back... but not the one who gets all the attention.... the one who hits people for fun!"

 

It takes a special breed of person to play that spot from a toughness and mental standpoint. But since they aren't getting carries or many receptions in the modern game, it's also usually not guys whose skillsets are really well rounded that play that position.

 

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bowhunter

bowhunter

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

 I understand your sentiment entirely. Citing a fullback's attempts/yard totals is a bit dismissive of what a fullback really does. 

 

Thank you to all for your responses and thoughts. I'm aware that  FB is not the position for a gloryhound. Protecting the guy with the ball is 90% of what they do, but that doesn't mean that the other 10% should be dismissed either. And Stats don't show that Armah has much versatility/contribution when asked to produce. Just the ability to "fall forward" when carrying the ball can get you an extra yard or two. And since I haven't watched him play over the past 5 years, Stats are the only way I can judge how well he does the 10%. For the record, I'm old school enough to want to see a FB on this roster. I would just like him to be a good one at both of his jobs. A man can dream can't he?  

Edited by bowhunter
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HigSkin

HigSkin

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Posted

I know it's preseason but suddenly that Bills game doesn't look insurmountable!

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/buffalo-bills-vs-steelers-takeaways-notebook-josh-allen-von-miller-sean-mcdermott-penalties-kenny-pickett

 

Bills 'Unacceptable' Struggles vs. Steelers, Questions Arise

https://bvmsports.com/2023/08/19/buffalo-bills-preseason-struggles-penalties-turnovers-and-injury-concerns-for-the-offensive-line/

 

Buffalo Bills’ Preseason Struggles: Penalties, Turnovers, and Injury Concerns for the Offensive Line

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justice98

justice98

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Posted
11 hours ago, bowhunter said:

Like you, I love the thought of having a FB on the roster. Flashbacks of Mike Sellers give me chills. So I took a look at Armahs career and now I'm not so sure.  He's bounced around between teams, active rosters, waived, PS and so forth.  He's played in 57 games so far. Has 26 carries for a total of 56 yards (add 9 receptions for 30 yards if you want to call him multi purpose) Career total combined for 4 touchdowns. Wouldn't we get equal production from just handing the ball to Jonathan Allen and preserving a roster spot until a more talented FB becomes available?

 

Don't forget Sellers came out of college and was in such demand, he had to go to the CFL for a few years before he found a home here.  

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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

Posted
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16 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

Don't forget Sellers came out of college and was in such demand, he had to go to the CFL for a few years before he found a home here.  

Kyle Juszczyk has terrible stats, but if you watch a 9ers game, he's pretty ****ing helpful.

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goskins10

goskins10

Posted
Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, HigSkin said:

I know it's preseason but suddenly that Bills game doesn't look insurmountable!

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/buffalo-bills-vs-steelers-takeaways-notebook-josh-allen-von-miller-sean-mcdermott-penalties-kenny-pickett

 

Bills 'Unacceptable' Struggles vs. Steelers, Questions Arise

https://bvmsports.com/2023/08/19/buffalo-bills-preseason-struggles-penalties-turnovers-and-injury-concerns-for-the-offensive-line/

 

Buffalo Bills’ Preseason Struggles: Penalties, Turnovers, and Injury Concerns for the Offensive Line


It may turn out they are not as good.  It’s more likely they trying things and pieces and situations to get ready for the season. 
 

these the sky is falling type articles from preseason are full if bull ****.  Was listening to Bill Pollian and he went on a rant about irresponsible so called analysis.  I find them funny to read.  Most of the time they gave no clue.  Not saying I do.  But at least I know I don’t know.  

Edited by goskins10
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SpacePenguin

SpacePenguin

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Huge fan of the FB/TE and really excited about Armah. Hodges catches more balls than Thomas does healthy starts, so I think he makes the roster. 

 

Of course you're a big fan of FB/TE, every season since Bates was drafted you make preseason posts about how he's going to break out this year....like a blocking TE is gonna suddenly catch 80 balls and put up 8 TDs.

 

It's pretty funny. I look forward to it in a seasonal way.

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