2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Don't care if this was already posted lol...I love it:

 

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

^^ By the way, my assumption was that it was a joke lol....I didn't care, though.

[KillBill26]

32 minutes ago, Dark Acre said:

If for your QB to develop, you need to draft a guard at #5, there's a bigger problem.

Scherff was a great pick.  Moses was hot garbage before playing next to him, and Cousins took off in 2015.  With one pick, we solved RG, RT, and QB.  That's great ROI.

 

A solid o-line is a huge aid in a QBs development.  We all know the story of David Carr, who the Texans threw out to the wolves and became shell shocked.  If he started his career out with a decent o-line, who knows how his career would've played out.

 

If Howell is constantly getting pressured, and our offense is struggling, that can mess with a young QBs confidence and growth.   If we had a chance to solidify our oline and in turn discover that Howell is our QB for the long term, I would gladly sacrifice the 5th overall pick in 2024. 

[Warhead36]

Pressure is actually often just as much the QB's fault/responsibility as it is the OLs. I remember the years when we thought the OL stunk for guys like Campbell and Ramsey but miraculously looked better under Collins and Brunell.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Look at how much turnover there’s been on the defensive side of the ball in Ron’s tenure. This is the two deep from 2019. I only see three names that are still here (Sweat/Allen/Payne). 
 

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Oh hey, that's a pretty good rep from Saahdiq Charles. That was kind of a "pressure", but I'm not entirely convinced. Leno had him blocked through the spin, but the pile of bodies got in the way and Oweh dove over them. No sack possible, but the QB did feel it, so I guess that counts? Howell looked to be resetting the pocket to the right, pauses then rolls out hard before (I think) completing a pass down field along the sideline. The roll out was most likely from peripheral vision picking up Oweh flailing in the air, but it could also be an internal clock causing him to roll to the side he knows he's protected on (the right side).

 

All in all, that rep goes down as a big plus for the Commanders offense. Great 2nd effort from Oweh, and it's possible against other QB's he could have flustered them.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

35 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Look at how much turnover there’s been on the defensive side of the ball in Ron’s tenure. This is the two deep from 2019. I only see three names that are still here (Sweat/Allen/Payne). 
 

 

 

Ouch...that secondary is brutal. That was Norman well after he had lost a step. Moreau never got it, Moreland wasn't athletic enough or big enough, DRC I think retired before the season started, and Dunbar only put together 1 consistent season. Nicholson didn't care and Collins was a LB playing Safety. The two backup safeties were pure special teamers. Rivera overhauled the entire secondary almost immediately.

 

D-Line and LB situations are similar though. DL = good and LB = lackluster.

[Koolblue13]

6 hours ago, CobraCommander said:

It's just maddening because everyone saw this coming, except apparently the people in charge of putting together a winning NFL team. I am baffled.

The people in charge repeatedly said this offseason we need to address Oline and LBer (pass rusher).

 

And they did address it. Awfully. Daniels is never going to be a starting tackle. Wylie blows and the chiefs upgraded in the offseaon for a reason.

 

Giants didn't want Gates back, they addressed it in the draft.

 

We don't even have a ****ing Oline coach for christ sakes. 

 

At LBers, while the NFL may move on from the 34 and having 4 backers on the field, we have 4 total on the roster and outside of Davis, who isn't great, is a bunch of nobodies that haven't broken into the starting line up in 4 years. Maybe Barton can be as good as Holcomb who we should have paid.

 

****ing joke offseason for a team with awesome weapons, top 5 defense and a young QB1 of our future.

 

This isn't the death star with one tiny weakness, it's the killdozer without the armor.

[Going Commando]

We just tried drafting those Alabama defenses and leaving it there.  I'm glad we stopped doing that and started pulling from broader sources.  Eagles are doing the same thing with Georgia.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Going Commando said:

We just tried drafting those Alabama defenses and leaving it there.  I'm glad we stopped doing that and started pulling from broader sources.  Eagles are doing the same thing with Georgia.

They drafted back ups and groomed them, like they normally do. They brought familiar players who needed to mature into a veteran winning culture and then empowered them.

 

We hit twice and lucked into Allen, hit on Payne. Missed on Anderson and SDH and possibly Mathis. Maybe hit on BRob.

[DWinzit]

5 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

The people in charge repeatedly said this offseason we need to address Oline and LBer (pass rusher).

 

And they did address it. Awfully. Daniels is never going to be a starting tackle. Wylie blows and the chiefs upgraded in the offseaon for a reason.

 

Giants didn't want Gates back, they addressed it in the draft.

 

We don't even have a ****ing Oline coach for christ sakes. 

 

At LBers, while the NFL may move on from the 34 and having 4 backers on the field, we have 4 total on the roster and outside of Davis, who isn't great, is a bunch of nobodies that haven't broken into the starting line up in 4 years. Maybe Barton can be as good as Holcomb who we should have paid.

 

****ing joke offseason for a team with awesome weapons, top 5 defense and a young QB1 of our future.

 

This isn't the death star with one tiny weakness, it's the killdozer without the armor.

Could you please stop holding back and let us know how you really feel. 

 

For the OL they evidently put their eggs in the basket of filling positions via draft and the the draft didn't fall as they wished.

 

It's the problem when relying so much on the draft like they have over the past number of years, that's been maddening.

 

With LBs they evidently felt Hudson and Barton are it with Davis...that I don't get. They had plenty of opportunities in FA and the draft to bring good competition to the position and ignored it.

 

Wondering if either positions play over the past week will signal someone that it is time to scour the market for the BPA, FA or trade. 

[CobraCommander]

6 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

The people in charge repeatedly said this offseason we need to address Oline and LBer (pass rusher).

 

And they did address it. Awfully. Daniels is never going to be a starting tackle. Wylie blows and the chiefs upgraded in the offseaon for a reason.

 

Giants didn't want Gates back, they addressed it in the draft.

 

We don't even have a ****ing Oline coach for christ sakes. 

 

At LBers, while the NFL may move on from the 34 and having 4 backers on the field, we have 4 total on the roster and outside of Davis, who isn't great, is a bunch of nobodies that haven't broken into the starting line up in 4 years. Maybe Barton can be as good as Holcomb who we should have paid.

 

****ing joke offseason for a team with awesome weapons, top 5 defense and a young QB1 of our future.

 

This isn't the death star with one tiny weakness, it's the killdozer without the armor.

Ima be honest. I had no idea we don’t have an oline coach. That seems like neglect. Can we press charges?

[redskinss]

24 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

Ima be honest. I had no idea we don’t have an oline coach. That seems like neglect. Can we press charges?

That's because it's not true.

 

Travelle Wharton is our offensive line coach.

Edited August 16, 2023 by redskinss

[Going Commando]

5 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

They drafted back ups and groomed them, like they normally do. They brought familiar players who needed to mature into a veteran winning culture and then empowered them.

 

We hit twice and lucked into Allen, hit on Payne. Missed on Anderson and SDH and possibly Mathis. Maybe hit on BRob.

 

Not just drafting, we went after those championship teams in FA and trades too: Piersbacher, Clinton-Dix, Kouandjio, Collins, Reuben Foster.  Pretty much didn't work out at all except with Allen and Payne.  We couldn't import the Alabama culture or competition, and we weren't getting their special players except with Payne and Allen.

 

Alabama, like Georgia, Texas A&M, Clemson, Ohio State, etc. gets a lot of super athletic five stars, and they have a system in place that gets them to win (not really Texas A&M).  But that doesn't make those players special.  Just makes competing at the highest level easier for those players, giving them overwhelming advantages.  Gives them money, prestige, NFL exposure, NFL caliber facilities and position coaching, maybe even shelters/coddles them.  Special players are everywhere, but a lot of times they are grinders from second rate programs like Iowa, Wisconsin, Pittsburgh, Texas Tech, Cal, Colorado, Mississippi State, BYU, Penn State, Utah, Florida State, Boston College, South Carolina, Notre Dame, Ole Miss, Cincinnati, Maryland, Stanford, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, and Louisville.  Or nobody schools like Fresno State, Wyoming, Boise State, Eastern Michigan, Eastern Washington, West Alabama, Nevada, Utah State, Western State, etc.  They had to rise above to get their NFL shot, and don't come up with the same entitlement or advantages.  If you are forced to source your players from the six or seven blue bloods who dominate recruiting class rankings and CFP appearances every year, or the field, you 100% take the field.

[Koolblue13]

9 minutes ago, redskinss said:

That's because it's not true.

 

Travelle Wharton is our offensive line coach.

The Oline is primarily being coached by Juan Castilio who is our TE coach.

[redskinss]

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

The Oline is primarily being coached by Juan Castilio who is our TE coach.

We don't know for certain what's going on behind closed doors but that not withstanding the statement that we don't have an oline coach is still inaccurate even if your last post is true.

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, redskinss said:

We don't know for certain what's going on behind closed doors but that not withstanding the statement that we don't have an oline coach is still inaccurate even if your last post is true.

It was said mostly in jest, which I think might have gone over head.

 

Castilio actually has a great reputation as an OL coach and worked with Reid years back. Was with Leno in Chicago.

 

He's a solid hire for the Oline.

 

But he's the TE coach for some reason.

[redskinss]

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

It was said mostly in jest, which I think might have gone over head.

 

Castilio actually has a great reputation as an OL coach and worked with Reid years back. Was with Leno in Chicago.

 

He's a solid hire for the Oline.

 

But he's the TE coach for some reason.

I wondered the same thing myself but the two units are closely tied together and the rest is just titles. 

As long as he and Wharton work well together it shouldn't matter too much.

 

My guess is that he was the assistant offensive line coach in Carolina under Ron and then here under Ron and he believed he deserved the promotion. 

He's certainly had enough time as an assistant to warrant it.

Edited August 16, 2023 by redskinss

[HigSkin]

 

 

[HigSkin]

😂😂

 

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Look at how much turnover there’s been on the defensive side of the ball in Ron’s tenure. This is the two deep from 2019. I only see three names that are still here (Sweat/Allen/Payne).

It's the same on offense.  I think the only guy of note who's still around is Terry.  In fact, he might be the only guy, starters or reserves I can think of. 

 

And of course the MVP of the team is still around:

[MartinC]

Going to be some tough cuts at WR. Hope we can sneak a couple of those guys onto the practice squad.

[Chris 44]

1 minute ago, MartinC said:

Going to be some tough cuts at WR. Hope we can sneak a couple of those guys onto the practice squad.

I have thought for a while that Milne would end up being the odd man out, still think he will be, but seems to have actually had a good camp. Also thought Brown was a lock but now thinking there is a chance he could be a surprise release. Very good WR room.

[Tress Is The Way]

10 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

It's pretty interesting there are such divergent viewpoints from people who were at practice.  JP and BMitch were positive, Mike Jones, not so much.  And while I think the team could get to Paulson, and get him to push a narrative, I don't see that with BMitch in particular, and probably not JP either.  I could be wrong, but it doesn't feel like either of those guys is going to carry the mail for the team, especially now that NBCSports Washington is no longer a partner of the Commanders, and neither is 106.7.  

 

I think the key is going to be if they start making moves, whether they bring in people or start shuffling players around.  If Lucas all of a sudden starts getting some run at RT, or a guard comes in to visit, I mean, that's what I'm looking to see. If that starts happening, then they know they are in trouble.  If they don't, they don't think they are in trouble.  They could be wrong about that, but it would be telling. 

 

One thing I was thinking about: the Wylie signing almost feels a little bit like the WJIII signing, and THAT is terrifying.  They completely blew the evaluation on WJIII in terms of fit, and it took them almost a year and a half to figure it out.  If they blew it on Wylie, they don't have a year and a half to figure it out.  They need to figure it out in the next 2 weeks.  I also find it interesting LG seems to be less concerning than RT at the moment.  

 

I get that I've moved from skeptical to cynical when it comes to reporting in general, but I'm going to wait until a few games in before really coming to any general conclusions about anything.

 

We know that first games are generally, statistically, bad predictors of the way a season is going to go for a team.  Interestingly though, the first 2-4 games, they odds increase significantly even with another game or two.

 

So, we'll see.  And I still think, unless the OL ends up being bottom 5 in the league, with the assumption the defense is what we think they are, EB + Howell + our skill position players can get to 10 wins.  What does that get?  Maybe just an ass kicking in the first round of the playoffs, but at least it would be some progress....

The thing about Wylie is that he shows up for big games. In the playoffs last year he didn't allow a single sack (nor any of the other playoff games he has played in). Also, in those playoffs games no holdings, no penalties, and no false starts. They have to figure out how to tap into that potential all the time and he'd be a good RT.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Tress Is The Way

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Going to be some tough cuts at WR. Hope we can sneak a couple of those guys onto the practice squad.

I think OL is going to be fascinating since they drafted players for 2025 in both the 3rd and 4th rounds, you expect them to stick around.  But not play. 

 

If you assume the starting 5 are Leno, Charles (yech), Gates, Cosmi, Wylie and primary backups of L/ucasPaul, that's 7.  Then you add 2 red-shirts of Stromboli and Daniels, that's 9.

 

So, if they are carrying 1 more, who is it? 

 

I actually thing THIS is the reason we haven't gotten a veteran in to help.  They would most likely have to cut Paul or Charles, which they don't want to do, because they can't cut the red-shirt rookies.  

 

They put themselves into a position where the entire backup group minus Lucas are young guys, primarily in their first or second year.  That's bad roster management.  

1 minute ago, Tress Is The Way said:

The thing about Wylie is that he shows up for big games. In the playoffs last year he didn't allow a single sack. They have to figure out how to tap into that potential all the time and he'd be a good RT.

I'm disappointed you didn't comment on my post above about our MVP.  It was authored for you.