2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[Chris 44]

15 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

 

 

Great catch by TM (too early to extend him? lol) but who was the safety that fell down?

[Warhead36]

Would love to see more downfield passes. Its gonna come down to the OL because I have no doubts Howell can hit the deep stuff and the WRs are as good as any as a group in the league outside of maybe the Bengals.

[Fan since a Fetus]

Play calling sets up downfield passes as well. It’s not all on the o-line. We will be throwing downfield. I don’t think people have to worry about that.

[Xameil]

2 hours ago, HigSkin said:

 

But are they Anthony Mix tall?

[NewCliche21]

44 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

May need to line a running back up behind Howell to act as a sort of "safety". Then we can always see that we "meant to do it".

 

"Drunk Wildcat Takes Over NFL Offenses"

[Chris 44]

1 minute ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

"Drunk Wildcat Takes Over NFL Offenses"

EB's offense knows no boundaries.

[HIYA_Beach_Warpath]

 

Jamin Davis arriving for work at Ashburn this morning 😂 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am not opposed to the idea.  I like Chase.  But I do agree with their apparent vacillation on the topic.  I vacillate on it, too.

I don't vacillate on it.  60% of the cap on the less important side of the ball is criminal.  CRIMINAL I TELL YOU!  Even with a cheap QB.  I think they should trade Sweat or Young.  Preferably Sweat if Young is better.  But they should do that.  It's just too much to be invested in one area of the team from a cap % perspective.  And I like Sweat, and might be the biggest "wait and see" on Young as you can get.  I wouldn't do it this off-season, but if both play well, you pay one, tag the other, then trade them.  Maybe for a starting left tackle?????  

 

And the cheap QB thing is a  (assuming we don't draft one next year and start the clock over) 2 year thing.  He would be in the Terry McLaurin situation entering year 4 and would demand an extension, just like Hurts, if he played well.  And you'd want to do that because you wouldn't want to get even remotely close to the franchise tag "cha-cha-cha"

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don't vacillate on it.  60% of the cap on the less important side of the ball is criminal.  CRIMINAL I TELL YOU!  Even with a cheap QB.  I think they should trade Sweat or Young.  Preferably Sweat if Young is better.  But they should do that.  It's just too much to be invested in one area of the team from a cap % perspective.  And I like Sweat, and might be the biggest "wait and see" on Young as you can get.  I wouldn't do it this off-season, but if both play well, you pay one, tag the other, then trade them.  Maybe for a starting left tackle?????  

 

And the cheap QB thing is a  (assuming we don't draft one next year and start the clock over) 2 year thing.  He would be in the Terry McLaurin situation entering year 4 and would demand an extension, just like Hurts, if he played well.  And you'd want to do that because you wouldn't want to get even remotely close to the franchise tag "cha-cha-cha"

 

Yeah, the cheap QB thing doesn't skate here. 

 

Howell, if he's the guy, is already in extension territory after this year. We'd need to pay him. Granted, it won't be Joe Burrow/Herbert/Mahomes money, but he'll still count more towards the cap than he does now.

 

We'll see. If our D is completely dominant than maybe the answer is to keep them.

 

But if it's not... attaining assets to make our offense more dominant is a better move.

 

Getting a first rounder to get an OT + additional O help would be a major boon.

 

Not to mention, we have no linebackers.

 

We'll see how the season plays out. But it's too early to declare that we need to keep both edges, imo. 

[“Misdirection”]

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don't vacillate on it.  60% of the cap on the less important side of the ball is criminal.  CRIMINAL I TELL YOU!  Even with a cheap QB.  I think they should trade Sweat or Young.  Preferably Sweat if Young is better.  But they should do that.  It's just too much to be invested in one area of the team from a cap % perspective.  And I like Sweat, and might be the biggest "wait and see" on Young as you can get.  I wouldn't do it this off-season, but if both play well, you pay one, tag the other, then trade them.  Maybe for a starting left tackle?????  

 

And the cheap QB thing is a  (assuming we don't draft one next year and start the clock over) 2 year thing.  He would be in the Terry McLaurin situation entering year 4 and would demand an extension, just like Hurts, if he played well.  And you'd want to do that because you wouldn't want to get even remotely close to the franchise tag "cha-cha-cha"

yeah but even then Howell would have low first 2-3 year cap hits in an extension like they did with Hurts, likely even lower. You can work around that. Unless they go full Kirk with the franchise tags again 😂 let’s not make that mistake twice

 

the bigger immediate cap concern is if Howell fails and they draft a high QB with a decent salary up front but even that won’t be terrivle

[Chris 44]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Yeah, the cheap QB thing doesn't skate here. 

 

Howell, if he's the guy, is already in extension territory after this year. We'd need to pay him. Granted, it won't be Joe Burrow/Herbert/Mahomes money, but he'll still count more towards the cap than he does now.

 

We'll see. If our D is completely dominant than maybe the answer is to keep them.

 

But if it's not... attaining assets to make our offense more dominant is a better move.

 

Getting a first rounder to get an OT + additional O help would be a major boon.

 

Not to mention, we have no linebackers.

 

We'll see how the season plays out. But it's too early to declare that we need to keep both edges, imo. 

In addition to the draft picks, I like to think we will be more active in the FA market than we have been in recent years, especially in the upper tier FA,s, that we haven't seemed to have targeted recently...combine that with we may actually be a desired landing spot now.

[Skinsinparadise]

First Brooks mention that i can recall about camp

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

37 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don't vacillate on it.  60% of the cap on the less important side of the ball is criminal.  CRIMINAL I TELL YOU!  Even with a cheap QB.  I think they should trade Sweat or Young.  Preferably Sweat if Young is better.  But they should do that.  It's just too much to be invested in one area of the team from a cap % perspective.  And I like Sweat, and might be the biggest "wait and see" on Young as you can get.  I wouldn't do it this off-season, but if both play well, you pay one, tag the other, then trade them.  Maybe for a starting left tackle?????  

 

And the cheap QB thing is a  (assuming we don't draft one next year and start the clock over) 2 year thing.  He would be in the Terry McLaurin situation entering year 4 and would demand an extension, just like Hurts, if he played well.  And you'd want to do that because you wouldn't want to get even remotely close to the franchise tag "cha-cha-cha"

 

I get that train of thought.  @KDawg saved me some time, summed it well for me.  Too early, depends on context. 

 

But I don't disagree with your point -- you don't want to be over the top with resources in the defensive side of the ball.  This isn't the 1980s or even 90s anymore.  We've alreasdy dedciated under Ron 5 of the 7 (1st or 2nd rounders) to the defensive side. 

 

2 hours ago, Captain James said:

It's at least nice for the offense to perform well against our 2nd team defense. Get them some confidence. Maybe our 1st team D really is stout?

 

From what I observed in one practice and what other reporters have said the 2nd team offense can move the ball and protect well against the 2nd team defense.  

 

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Let’s hope they all ball out so that we will have some tough decisions to make. I would think a trade would be much easier if we have Sweat and Chase playing at a high level. 
 

I think this is the most excited I’ve been about our secondary since we had ST roaming around back there. Let’s hope this group can gel quickly and give our DL a chance to get home. 
 

I’m excited to see how Percy Butler develops. The kid has some serious wheels to play center field. I think he might be an under the radar stud.

Edited August 1, 2023 by AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

[RVAskins]

24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

First Brooks mention that i can recall about camp

 

 

 

I love it when the pads come on. It takes training camp to a whole new level.

 

[redskinss]

Isn't brooks considered more of a tackle than a guard?

I know he played both in college but I thought we viewed him as a tackle.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

It's not about overloading cap one position group to me, because that assumes you have talent all over your roster that you have to let walk due to cap constraints.  We don't.  IMO we only have 5 players on the entire roster worthy of second contracts in the 20 million AAV range, and four of them are our DLs.  No one else is even close to that kind of value.  And no one on the roster is even close to the kind of 30-40 million AAV deals that other teams have signed.

 

We can afford 5 players at 20 million AAV.  And unless we reel in a big fish in free agency, which I highly doubt happens, there is no one else coming down the pipe that will be in that 20 million AAV after Chase and Sweat for years.

 

When I was guessing what our AV totals might be for next season, it struck me that we only have five guys on the roster who could realistically hit 10 AV or more now, and two of them have never done it before.  No one else is even close to being that kind of player for us, and I have a hard time seeing anyone else get there within the next two years or so.  Jamin maybe because a high tackles number Mike can rack up a lot of junky AV, but we can see through the noise of that and those players don't command big contracts.  Plus Jamin is unreliable.

 

There isn't anyone else on this roster to pay in lieu of Chase and Montez.  I'm not giving that kind of money to Cosmi or Gibson or Curl or Leno if I'm the GM.  All of them combined maybe, but giving a bunch of potential 6 and 7 AV guys 15-20 million AAV deals is what is dumb roster building, not giving your Probowl DLs what they are worth in order to keep them.

 

Dotson maybe develops into a big money player.  Howell maybe?  Remember with him its 4 years not 5 so we aren't miles away from it.  Will see.

 

I agree with the premise that if our roster stays just like it is, then why not?

 

But to me context is king.  If the D line is dominant and wins games then ride that card.   If not, maybe paying the moon for 4 D lineman doesn't make sense. 

 

We bemoan how we can't afford this or that O lineman and you make the case that Ron did fine with the budget he had.  what if our budget is bigger and it wouldn't be comical for us to afford an Orlando Brown, etc. 

 

What if they aren't sure about Howell and want to fish for a QB in the next draft and also want a LT?    Or want more draft capital to shoot for Williams or Drake?

 

IMO there are too many moving parts to land on a hard decision.  And my point I don't think its a non-brainer right now to pay all 4 D lineman.

 

And this is coming from me, the dude who was so obsessed with Chase Young that @volsmet would goof on that as a punch line during the draft season.  And I do still have high hopes for Chase.  

 

7 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Isn't brooks considered more of a tackle than a guard?

I know he played both in college but I thought we viewed him as a tackle.

 

They view him from what I heard more as a guard.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Xameil said:

But are they Anthony Mix tall?

You stole my bit, damnit.  

[LetMeSeeYourWarFace21]

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

57 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Not to mention, we have no linebackers.

I think they should just release all the LBs and play only with DL, Safeties and CBs.  

 

It would be revolutionary.  Take the NFL by storm.  Position flex that!

 

(This is a joke.  It is only a joke.  Kindof....)  

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think they should just release all the LBs and play only with DL, Safeties and CBs.  

 

It would be revolutionary.  Take the NFL by storm.  Position flex that!

 

(This is a joke.  It is only a joke.  Kindof....)  

 

Maybe they should go with no offensive guards either.  Bieniemy will just scheme around it, so I don't think they'd lose a beat

Edited August 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

58 minutes ago, “Misdirection” said:

yeah but even then Howell would have low first 2-3 year cap hits in an extension like they did with Hurts, likely even lower. You can work around that. Unless they go full Kirk with the franchise tags again 😂 let’s not make that mistake twice

 

the bigger immediate cap concern is if Howell fails and they draft a high QB with a decent salary up front but even that won’t be terrivle

Yeah, but a few things about the Eagles contract with Hurts:

 

1. They added 4! years of dead cap space, including 2 years with 34m and 24m of dead cap space.  That's bananas. 

2. They managed to keep it that low because they used the option bonus vs. signing bonus.  Hurts "only" got a $20m signing bonus.  

3. They did an enormous amount of cap engineering to make this happen.  Because they think they can win RIGHT NOW.  They might not be wrong.  

4. At some point, this contract is going to probably force them to eat $40m in cap space in one year when Hurts is not on the team.  

 

I look at a lot of contract breakdowns, I've never seen anything like what the Eagles did with Hurts.  It's either freaking brilliant or will blow up spectacularly.  That will depend on if Hurts plays well enough to get another extension in 3 years.  If he does, they'll push cap hell well into the 2030's.  If he doesn't, youch, the late 2020's are going to be rough for them.  

[LetMeSeeYourWarFace21]

 

[Tress Is The Way]

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yeah, but a few things about the Eagles contract with Hurts:

 

1. They added 4! years of dead cap space, including 2 years with 34m and 24m of dead cap space.  That's bananas. 

2. They managed to keep it that low because they used the option bonus vs. signing bonus.  Hurts "only" got a $20m signing bonus.  

3. They did an enormous amount of cap engineering to make this happen.  Because they think they can win RIGHT NOW.  They might not be wrong.  

4. At some point, this contract is going to probably force them to eat $40m in cap space in one year when Hurts is not on the team.  

 

I look at a lot of contract breakdowns, I've never seen anything like what the Eagles did with Hurts.  It's either freaking brilliant or will blow up spectacularly.  That will depend on if Hurts plays well enough to get another extension in 3 years.  If he does, they'll push cap hell well into the 2030's.  If he doesn't, youch, the late 2020's are going to be rough for them.  

Yeah that contract is freaking nuts but it's only detrimental as a pre june 1st cut.. if it's post june 1st they have some outs in 2026 to save some of their cap.. still talk about a freaking contract it's quite bonkers. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Maybe they should go with no offensive guards either.  Bieniemy will just scheme around it, so I don't think they'd lose a beat

This is funny.  I think that would be a strategic mistake but I'd be open to see what it would look like....   

 

On a somewhat related (and humorous) note, on JP's podcast, JP and Mitch were arguing which was more important, LG or kicker.  JP had Kicker and Mitch had LG.  It was quite the exchange.

 

I'll say this: without Adam Vinatieri, Tom Brady might have 3 less SBs, and not even gotten to the first one.  People forget Vinatieri kicked a game tying FG in the snow after the tuck rule to send the game into OT, which the Pats won, and Jon Gruden is STILL bitter about.  (eff him, but he's got a point to an extent.)

 

Was Vinatieri more valuable than Andruzi or Compton, the starting guards for the Pats that year?  Ehhhhhhh....... Maybe?  Probably?  I mean, yeah, I kindof think so....  

 

But that is an extreme circumstance.  

 

#KickersArePeopleToo