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2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

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88Comrade2000

88Comrade2000

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, NewCliche21 said:

I'll take whatever makes us win the Super Bowl and be the Pats of the first 20 years of this millennium. I want my kids to go through elementary school through college/early adulthood being fans of the best team. Like the opposite of what I had.

I doubt any team repeats what the Pats did.

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zCommander

zCommander

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Posted (edited)

Sorry, my fat fingers, thought I typed 1982 and not 1992. At least you guys had fun with that. It was 40 years before the 1st SB ring and It will be 41 years this year since then. The stars are getting aligned and any given Sunday and Howell. :)

 

Speaking of 1992 season, we did win the wild-card game but lost in the divisional round. So if this year with Howell that wouldn't be bad at all. I will take it. 

 

Edited by zCommander
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Always A Commander Never A Captain

Always A Commander Never A Captain

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34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Went through this. Not sure I totally get it but I gather it’s factoring position value among other variables 

 

 

 

Pretty looking charts, but Eagles data is skewed by benefiting from an extra 1st rounder, as well as taking a QB on Day 3. The value is perceived from how much a player would get in free agency and so backup QB's are paid a lot more than other positional backups.

 

Despite the pretty chart story, I don't think there's any takeaway to be had. If we drop this back to 2022 we'd probably benefit more than others as we were the only one taking a QB and that was on Day 3.

 

I think there are other ways of analyzing the data to prevent how it's skewed, but that was not what was explored in the blog. I'm not saying the blogs reason for doing it this way was is incorrect. I'd be curious if he can estimate future returns on rolling totals combining consecutive drafts. That might be too hard to do as things like starting QB would heavily influence actual returns.

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Always A Commander Never A Captain

Always A Commander Never A Captain

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Posted
1 hour ago, MrJL said:

the best blocker in the SEC was rated below an undersized OL who will pretty much have to switch positions in the NFL?

 

That's not the methodology used and would be more complex to implement that type of thing than what was done.

 

Methodology is just positional value in free agency based on vague incoming listed position. It's trying not to be subjective with positional listings and make guesses on future NFL position switches. That also makes it a bit inaccurate but I fully understand why it was done.

 

Otherwise it'd be such a headache to define more of that data.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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Posted (edited)

I guess what’s interesting is they try to do what some  on the draft thread do and that is create a system for valuing positions over other positions.

 

But that process has some subjectivity and context matters. Some of us argue we’d rather have the best player at name that lesser position versus the 5th best player at another position.
 

As to the Eagles getting bonus points for having an extra first round pick IMO that is well earned and should be the case because it reflects their organization philosophy to add future picks and doesn’t for example as I’ve pointed out in multiple posts reflect ours so they deserve that lift from it 

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Starry Plough

Starry Plough

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Posted

Philly are an example of not just organisational philosophy, but harmonious stability at boardroom/FO *and* personnel level, especially QB where they’ve seemingly always had “the guy” which enables them to be in the luxurious position of moving down the board and acquiring future picks of real value without compromising the immediate present. 
 

Those future picks then have set them up perfectly for those times where “the guy” has flamed out for whatever reason and been in a position to be aggressive should he need replaced ah-La Wentz (although I appreciate Hurts was a 2nd rounder, but the point remains).

 

Harris is unlikely to be a dummy though on this front and I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s looking at Philly as the perfect template going forward and aiming to replicate what they do as early as possible. 

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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

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Posted
11 hours ago, Starry Plough said:

Philly are an example of not just organisational philosophy, but harmonious stability at boardroom/FO *and* personnel level, especially QB where they’ve seemingly always had “the guy” which enables them to be in the luxurious position of moving down the board and acquiring future picks of real value without compromising the immediate present. 
 

Those future picks then have set them up perfectly for those times where “the guy” has flamed out for whatever reason and been in a position to be aggressive should he need replaced ah-La Wentz (although I appreciate Hurts was a 2nd rounder, but the point remains).

 

Harris is unlikely to be a dummy though on this front and I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s looking at Philly as the perfect template going forward and aiming to replicate what they do as early as possible. 

They tried trading all of their picks for Russel Wilson and were shot down.

 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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Posted

Read a long article about the process behind the scenes as to them targeting Hurts in the 2nd round.

 

At that point they thought Wentz was the guy but there were a few things that guided them to take Hurts anyway according to that article.

 

A. They believe big time in having a good backup QB and ideally one on a rookie contract.

 

B. The owner and GM said they envision their team as a QB factory and want to keep taking them even if it’s just for trade value later on

 

C. They really dug Hurts. Apparently ironically it was Pederson according to that article who fell hard for Hurts and saw him as a future starter.

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ExoDus84

ExoDus84

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 6/22/2023 at 6:55 AM, Koolblue13 said:

Hey, we haven't had a winning season since 2016. I'll take a repeat of 92 and get 9 wins.  :ols:

 

We haven't won more than 10 games since 1991. For reference, that's 16 years worse than the next biggest loser. 2007 was the latest any other team won 11 or more games in a year.

 

To add more Snyder-era sadness...

 

2au2ubf4928b1.jpg

Edited by ExoDus84
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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

We haven't won more than 10 games since 1991. For reference, that's 16 years worse than the next biggest loser. 2007 was the latest any other team won 11 or more games in a year.

 

To add more Snyder-era sadness...

 

2au2ubf4928b1.jpg

What's shocking about this, is that even though we're a bottom 5 team, we draft around 16 somehow constantly. 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

What's shocking about this, is that even though we're a bottom 5 team, we draft around 16 somehow constantly. 

I wonder if there is a team that has given away more draft picks than this team over the years, too.  We’ve traded a ton.  And lost just about every trade no matter who was running the team. Eventually that adds up clearly.

 

Switching to the mode of adding draft capital versus giving up capital should make for a sea change on that point alone, 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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DWinzit

DWinzit

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Posted
5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I wonder if there is a team that has given away more draft picks than this team over the years, too.  We’ve traded a ton.  And lost just about every trade no matter who was running the team. Eventually that adds up clearly.

 

Switching to the mode of adding draft capital versus giving up capital should make for a sea change on that point alone, 

I don't even remember what it feels like to have an abundance of draft capital.

 

Bigger than all the trades we came out as losers is the root of many of the trades. Come draft day they have have way too many unaddressed needs that must be filled via draft hence reaching on draft picks for certain needs and moving back because we need extra picks to fill all the hopes instead of taking the great talent at the draft position we reside in. 

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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

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Posted
10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I wonder if there is a team that has given away more draft picks than this team over the years, too.  We’ve traded a ton.  And lost just about every trade no matter who was running the team. Eventually that adds up clearly.

 

Switching to the mode of adding draft capital versus giving up capital should make for a sea change on that point alone, 

Ever since we talked about it last week, I've been upset thinking about how set up this team would be if we traded Trent and Kirk for first rounders and then some.

 

I think the extra 1rst for Kirk would have been 2018, so we may have ended up with Rosen or Mayfield, but it could also have been Josh Allen.

 

Imagine this defense if we drafted Daron Payne and Roquan Smith that year. Our defense was terrible, until Payne showed up.

 

2019 we probably would have drafted the same two first rounders in Haskins and Sweat, but we could of had Daniel Jones instead

 

And that's just the potential 1rsts we could of had. We would of had more 2nd rounders, instead of trading them away.

 

Thank god those days are over and we can be a real NFL team again.

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