2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

You can never have enough weapons and speed

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/12/03/commanders-dolphins-loss/

 

But the Dolphins are loaded, and they have a coach who knows how to get his best players the ball — and often. Alongside Hill — who had 157 receiving yards, 30 more than Washington’s entire receiving corps — is wideout Jaylen Waddle, who is on pace to top 1,000 yards this season. Then there’s Raheem Mostert, the league’s leading rusher, and dynamic rookie back De’Von Achane, who combined for 154 scrimmage yards and three rushing touchdowns in Miami’s win.

 

“I think it is tough for their safety in that instance when you have guys like Tyreek, guys like Jaylen, who have one-on-ones, and then you put a backer out there with De’Von,” said Tagovailoa, who completed 18 of 24 passes for 280 yards, two touchdowns and a 141.0 passer rating. “I mean, I don’t know what you would expect them to do. If you expect them to cover Tyreek’s side, then we’re going to throw to De’Von. I mean, we liked our matchups, but it definitely is tough when you go man across the board, and it’s press against really fast guys like that.”

[clskinsfan]

35 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

“I mean, I don’t know what you would expect them to do. If you expect them to cover Tyreek’s side, then we’re going to throw to De’Von

We know exactly what play he is talking about. And confirms he saw Achane wide open too. Man do I wish we had the speed and weapons the Dolphins do. Terry doesnt even start on that team. 

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

We know exactly what play he is talking about. And confirms he saw Achane wide open too. Man do I wish we had the speed and weapons the Dolphins do. Terry doesnt even start on that team. 

 

Yeah watching football today, while I was bothered to no end about the O line.  It also hit me especially watching the 49ers that when you got all these YAC weapons ala Kittle, Deebo, etc, they are tough to stop.  It's why they traded for McCaffrey even though they were already loaded.  Dolphins traded for Tyreek, drafted Waddle but they don't stop and add Achane, too.  Too many weapons to stop.

 

Logan Thomas and Dotson would be jags on those teams.  

 

We need to rebuild the offensive line.  But those that say adding offensive weapons is a luxury -- i couldn't disagree more, we need multiple game breaker guys on offense

[Chump Bailey]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

It also hit me especially watching the 49ers that when you got all these YAC weapons ala Kittle, Deebo, etc, they are tough to stop.

 

We can draft our own version of Deebo with Western Kentucky WR Malachi Corley but we won't

[zCommander]

3 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

We can draft our own version of Deebo with Western Kentucky WR Malachi Corley but we won't

 

Deebo was drafted high in the 2nd round and Corley is projected to go high in the 2nd round as well.... hmmmm

[Skinsinparadise]

Exactly...

 

 

 

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah watching football today, while I was bothered to no end about the O line.  It also hit me especially watching the 49ers that when you got all these YAC weapons ala Kittle, Deebo, etc, they are tough to stop.  It's why they traded for McCaffrey even though they were already loaded.  Dolphins traded for Tyreek, drafted Waddle but they don't stop and add Achane, too.  Too many weapons to stop.

 

Logan Thomas and Dotson would be jags on those teams.  

 

We need to rebuild the offensive line.  But those that say adding offensive weapons is a luxury -- i couldn't disagree more, we need multiple game breaker guys on offense

Here's the sad deal of it all.  When RR was given total control of the team the hiring of both Martin and Marty was simply to tell RR who they thought was the most talented at this position or BPA etc. and RR selected the player(s).  Some bad choices. I do, however, think that with better coaching some of these players can do better and reach higher potential because as I've stated there is no leadership or true expertise of coaching on this team as hopefully there will be after the season ends and Harris and Co. go GM shopping. 

[Warhead36]

Accumulate talent. Idc about need. Entire roster can be nuked.

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Accumulate talent. Idc about need. Entire roster can be nuked.

When the entire position on the roster is a need it makes drafting for need really easy.  

[bird_1972]

6 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

When the entire position on the roster is a need it makes drafting for need really easy.  

 

I wonder if we can/should trade Terry/Jon Allen/Payne and anyone else under a vet contract who has value.

[KDawg]

5 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Accumulate talent. Idc about need. Entire roster can be nuked.

I think we absolutely need to accumulate talent.

 

I also think all of that talent is useless if the QB can’t throw. I don’t care who is back there. The OL needs to be semi course corrected immediately. And it should have started two years ago and it wasn’t.

[Going Commando]

6 hours ago, bird_1972 said:

 

I wonder if we can/should trade Terry/Jon Allen/Payne and anyone else under a vet contract who has value.

 

Only if it's to get a QB.  Otherwise you don't get better by trading your few legit good players.  Especially when they are your leaders like Terry and Allen are.

 

The roster is going to get churned through during the regime change because that always happens, and it's a shame.  Our players aren't actually that bad.  The defense had a bunch of good players on it, they wouldn't have been a top five unit last year if that wasn't the case.  They're just lost and in desperate need of a new coaching staff.  It's also already started getting dismantled, and is probably going to get even worse when Curl and Fuller leave.

 

The offense was always kind of low upside and lacking in talent, and on top of that, the system isn't a good match for them.  The receivers are the best guys on the offense, and they are minimized in the system.

[KDawg]

Agree with GC RE: Terry/Allen.

 

But there are very few players who I would hesitate moving on from. Howell, Robinson, Terry, Allen are the primary guys I’d hesitate on… but I’d move on from all of them if it meant a direct path to improvement. That’s hard to measure so it’s easier to say I wouldn’t move on than list all the caveats.

 

My line of thinking is that we need an influx of overall talent. Trading talent doesn’t increase talent unless the return is so great that it does. I know, that doesn’t make a ton of sense but it does if you think about it. 
 

I’m hard pressed to move on from Howell, but I see the point in new regime, new QB if that’s what they choose. But we better have a path to upgrading the OL. And that may require moving a few pieces we don’t want to move. 
 

Robinson isn’t setting the world on fire, necessarily, given the scheme. But he’s a low cost piece that moving on from doesn’t make sense. Adding to the RB room does, though. 
 

Allen/Terry are our leaders. Only way you move on from them is if they say they want out (hopefully privately to increase RoI and not publicly) or if moving them gets you to the QB you want and/or is a direct upgrade to the offensive line. 
 

There is a lot of positive to the Washington GM/HC job. But there is a lot of negative, too. I don’t fully buy the Grant Paulsen take that this job is super attractive. But it isn’t unattractive, either, given some latitude and understanding on the process to course correct.

[Est.1974]

I could see Allen pushing for a move in the offseason. Payne as well, although his deal might hinder that in 2024.

Clearly no roster is 100% rammed with very good talent and above, but you could easily estimate we are light on 12-15 players that fall into that category. The 2023 draft actually looks quite damaging to me at the minute. 

[Drock_VB]

One draft isn’t going to fix the offensive line and the defense.  Trading players or picks  for more picks is a good choice IMO. But those picks need to be quality. 

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Agree with GC RE: Terry/Allen.

 

But there are very few players who I would hesitate moving on from. Howell, Robinson, Terry, Allen are the primary guys I’d hesitate on… but I’d move on from all of them if it meant a direct path to improvement. That’s hard to measure so it’s easier to say I wouldn’t move on than list all the caveats.

 

My line of thinking is that we need an influx of overall talent. Trading talent doesn’t increase talent unless the return is so great that it does. I know, that doesn’t make a ton of sense but it does if you think about it. 
 

I’m hard pressed to move on from Howell, but I see the point in new regime, new QB if that’s what they choose. But we better have a path to upgrading the OL. And that may require moving a few pieces we don’t want to move. 
 

Robinson isn’t setting the world on fire, necessarily, given the scheme. But he’s a low cost piece that moving on from doesn’t make sense. Adding to the RB room does, though. 
 

Allen/Terry are our leaders. Only way you move on from them is if they say they want out (hopefully privately to increase RoI and not publicly) or if moving them gets you to the QB you want and/or is a direct upgrade to the offensive line. 
 

There is a lot of positive to the Washington GM/HC job. But there is a lot of negative, too. I don’t fully buy the Grant Paulsen take that this job is super attractive. But it isn’t unattractive, either, given some latitude and understanding on the process to course correct.

Agreed, It's not like you can dump the full 53 man roster, PS and IR. 

 

They will need to hold onto a number of players that fit the schemes to be implemented on both sides of the ball.

 

There are a number of players drafted over the last couple years whose talent was not tapped by the horrible coaching that has occurred. 

 

These players will minimally fill second string or situational positions on the roster next year

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

Robinson isn’t setting the world on fire, necessarily, given the scheme. But he’s a low cost piece that moving on from doesn’t make sense. Adding to the RB room does, though. 

 interesting to hear Miami's take on the RBs

 

 

9 hours ago, RWJ said:

Here's the sad deal of it all.  When RR was given total control of the team the hiring of both Martin and Marty was simply to tell RR who they thought was the most talented at this position or BPA etc. and RR selected the player(s).  Some bad choices. I do, however, think that with better coaching some of these players can do better and reach higher potential because as I've stated there is no leadership or true expertise of coaching on this team as hopefully there will be after the season ends and Harris and Co. go GM shopping. 

 

I think its a so so roster.  But looks worse with bad coaching and lack of star-elite players and a poor o line.

 

So i am a bit torn, I get the trade down philiosophy.   And yes we need to rebuild the O line.  But also take to heart hearing the Dolphins talk about no weapons on this team scare them.  While also watching Miami's and SF's weapons for example kill it.  Deebo Samuel killed it for SF yesterday.  So did Tyreek Hill for Miami.

 

it's why if we can get a guy like Marvin Harrison Jr., that intrigues me.  

Edited December 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

I am encouraged by this QB draft class initially. My opinion is there are quite a few prospects that could be a lot better than we think just need some experience with NFL speed. A lot needs sorting out certainly in the months to come and in no way do I place much of the pain on Sam's play, but I do think it is imperative we come away with a QB this draft to bring in for competition. 

 

D.J. Uiagalelei has piqued my interest. 

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Chump Bailey

[KDawg]

9 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

I am encouraged by this QB draft class initially. My opinion is there are quite a few prospects that could be a lot better than we think just need some experience with NFL speed. A lot needs sorting out certainly in the months to come and in no way do I place much of the pain on Sam's play, but I do think it is imperative we come away with a QB this draft to bring in for competition. 

 

D.J. Uiagalelei has piqued my interest. 

 

Ukelele is in the transfer portal and staying in college

 

Spencer Rattler is my “has everything but needs to make it happen” guy.

Edited December 4, 2023 by KDawg

[Warhead36]

Our WRs are good but there is not a game breaker among them. That's why I'm so high on getting Harrison jr and if we traded down wouldn't mind Coleman(don't know enough about Nabers but he feels too much like our current receivers: small ish and more speedy but not physically dominant). Our RBs are solid and both have developed quite nicely but again, no elite talent.

 

This team has on real game changing talent. Guys that other teams go "ahh dang we're facing THAT guy!?". A guy that can completely change a game. When was the last time we had a guy break a 60 yard TD? Or put up 150 yards 2-3 TDs? Or on defense when was the last time someone got multiple picks or a pick 6 or a strip sack etc. etc?

 

We have some good players and I wouldn't wanna just get rid of all of them, but we have got to add that game changing dynamic talent with what should be a top 5 pick.

[Chump Bailey]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Ukelele is in the transfer portal and staying in college

 

Spencer Rattler is my “has everything but needs to make it happen” guy.

 

That figures. Have yet to examine Rattler. I do like McCarthy and the Coastal Carolina QB Grayson is probably on my list at some point too. Thanks

[Panninho]

I honestly don't think any player should be off the table in trade talks. The price has to be right but I am not sure how useful the leadership eperience of guys is, who haven't won anything here or in this league in general. Sometimes it might make sense, to start over new and give way to some new people to step up.

Now I am not saying that I want to trade any of the players, just that it should not be categorically off limits. Especially with Terry it would be hard for me to say goodbye, I just love that dude. But I would give the new GM & HC full freedom to do whatever they feel is necessary to build a winner. And if that is to tear everything down and start over new, I am on board. However, I think the player I would least like to see traded is Cosmi. He is young, he plays strong, he doesn't cost much and I think with more talent around him (especially at C), he could play on an All-Pro level at his position.

[Warhead36]

Just now, Panninho said:

I honestly don't think any player should be off the table in trade talks. The price has to be right but I am not sure how useful the leadership eperience of guys is, who haven't won anything here or in this league in general. Sometimes it might make sense, to start over new and give way to some new people to step up.

Now I am not saying that I want to trade any of the players, just that it should not be categorically off limits. Especially with Terry it would be hard for me to say goodbye, I just love that dude. But I would give the new GM & HC full freedom to do whatever they feel is necessary to build a winner. And if that is to tear everything down and start over new, I am on board. However, I think the player I would least like to see traded is Cosmi. He is young, he plays strong, he doesn't cost much and I think with more talent around him (especially at C), he could play on an All-Pro level at his position.

I agree. We're 4-9. Nobody is untouchable. I think the only guy we really can't trade is Payne only because of the massive cap hit we'd take. 

[RWJ]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 interesting to hear Miami's take on the RBs

 

 

 

I think its a so so roster.  But looks worse with bad coaching and lack of star-elite players and a poor o line.

 

So i am a bit torn, I get the trade down philiosophy.   And yes we need to rebuild the O line.  But also take to heart hearing the Dolphins talk about no weapons on this team scare them.  While also watching Miami's and SF's weapons for example kill it.  Deebo Samuel killed it for SF yesterday.  So did Tyreek Hill for Miami.

 

it's why if we can get a guy like Marvin Harrison Jr., that intrigues me.  

But you can sign a player like Harrison and if you don't have an Oline that will give your QB time to through him the ball, it's a waste, I think.  I think it most important to give Howell time to set, find an open WR and then get the weapons after the Oline is fixed and as previoulsy mentioned fix the D too but much better coaching and F.O. management is needed.  

[Panninho]

18 minutes ago, RWJ said:

But you can sign a player like Harrison and if you don't have an Oline that will give your QB time to through him the ball, it's a waste, I think.  I think it most important to give Howell time to set, find an open WR and then get the weapons after the Oline is fixed and as previoulsy mentioned fix the D too but much better coaching and F.O. management is needed.  

The most important thing for us is to get talent. I don't want to pass over talent because of need. This team is not contenting next year, regardless of what we do. We need to build a sustainable winner and that won't be done in one offseason the way we look right now.