2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, Panninho said:

The most important thing for us is to get talent. I don't want to pass over talent because of need. This team is not contenting next year, regardless of what we do. We need to build a sustainable winner and that won't be done in one offseason the way we look right now.

I understand but specifically with where we are at, I disagree at this time.  

[Skinsinparadise]

[Warhead36]

There was a lot of interest in Allen at the deadline. He has a very good reputation around the league and most teams won't care that he's had a bit of a down year when the entire system was garbage. If a team offers at least a 3rd for him then let him go.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

There was a lot of interest in Allen at the deadline. He has a very good reputation around the league and most teams won't care that he's had a bit of a down year when the entire system was garbage. If a team offers at least a 3rd for him then let him go.

I don't think this draft has anyone as good as Payne or Allen at DT, so we should be able to get better than a 3rd for either, but man I am all about day two picks.

[Conn]

5 hours ago, Going Commando said:

The roster is going to get churned through during the regime change because that always happens, and it's a shame.  Our players aren't actually that bad.  The defense had a bunch of good players on it, they wouldn't have been a top five unit last year if that wasn't the case.  They're just lost and in desperate need of a new coaching staff.  It's also already started getting dismantled, and is probably going to get even worse when Curl and Fuller leave.

 

The defense being “top 5” was a mirage and many of us said so this offseason. We played a string of bad teams or teams without a QB, and they were kept off the field by the hyper-conservative hide-Heinicke-at-all-costs version of Turner’s offense. 

 

5 hours ago, Going Commando said:

The offense was always kind of low upside and lacking in talent, and on top of that, the system isn't a good match for them.  The receivers are the best guys on the offense, and they are minimized in the system.

You say this like it’s self-evident. Before the season, even after our disaster of a draft, it’s not at all what you thought about the Bieniemy offense and fit here. You were super high on its ability to save Rivera’s regime and create a franchise QB out of Howell. This isn’t a “gotcha”, we’re all wrong all the time. Simply pointing out that talking about things in hindsight matter-of-factly like this when it’s only been 4 months since you felt the exact opposite shows just how hard it can be to nail these things down. And will continue to be until we actually have a predictable identity as a franchise and roster. 

[Going Commando]

2 minutes ago, Conn said:

You say this like it’s self-evident. Before the season, even after our disaster of a draft, it’s not at all what you thought about the Bieniemy offense and fit here. You were super high on its ability to save Rivera’s regime and create a franchise QB out of Howell. This isn’t a “gotcha”, we’re all wrong all the time. Simply pointing out that talking about things in hindsight matter-of-factly like this when it’s only been 4 months since you felt the exact opposite shows just how hard it can be to nail these things down. And will continue to be until we actually have a predictable identity as a franchise and roster. 

 

I think the low upside of the talent on the offensive side of the ball was evident before the season.  I think we all knew that the only promising players in the offense were the three receivers, and that all of our high end talent was on the other side of the ball.  When I was bullish on guys like Cosmi and Cole Turner and Chris Paul, it was expecting them to exceed the value of their draft positions and be solid cogs in the machine rather than thinking these guys would actually be studs by league standards. 

 

But yeah, Bieniemy being bad shocked me.  I thought he was going to be a great coach and it just hasn't worked out, regardless of the general fire burning around him limiting performance for everyone, he has fundamentally failed to marry scheme to talent.  I'll say in his defense though, he took a late round project QB and has him near the top of the league in raw passing production.  It hasn't been efficient, and we haven't been scoring, but just getting that kind of production from your QB isn't easy.  It suggests that in the narrow job of working with a QB, he's not bad.  It's a valuable type of expertise, and in a strong organization that didn't give him more than that, he thrived.  But yeah, it'll never work out for him here.

[Warhead36]

I liked the EB hire as well. At the very least I figured he'd be an upgrade over Turner.

 

But....nope. He's actually WORSE than Turner. Yes, he's worse. Turner for all his faults at least got the ball to McLaurin and Dotson. He even got 1000 yards out of Gibson his rookie year. And all that was with way worse QB-ing. And its not like we had the Hogs at OL the last couple of years either.

[The Consigliere]

42 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Have to admit, I am always surprised when guys choose to stay with franchises like ours. Generally speaking, the stinkers are the stinkers unless they strike gold in the QB lottery and even then they can stay stinkers quite a bit (see the Falcons, and Lions and plenty of other teams over the years).

 

Consistent stinker franchises players should have left after rookie deals that were obvious:

Us

Chicago

Detroit

Atlanta

Arizona

NYJ

Cleveland

Cincy

Jacksonville

Oakland

 

 

You could basically blindly choose to avoid reupping with any of these teams and be right 90-95% of the time the last 30ish years. The only eras where that wouldn't be true would be Detroit right now, Atlanta early last decade, Cincy during the Burrow and healthy Palmer era's, Jacksonville when they had legit QB's. But even then, w/all of those teams, whatever moment they had in the sun was quite short for the most part. If I was Jonathan Allen, I would not have resigned an extension EVER. Seems quite obvious, especially with Snyder ownership. I'll grant there's hope now, but from 2017 until news that he was selling hit last winter, there was no time ever when he should have even considered resigning. 

 

Put simply, unlike basketball, hockey, baseball, soccer, football generally cuts peoples lives by 15-25% and sometimes more, and usually makes later years horrible healthwise. If you are going to make those sacrifices for this sport, you sure as hell shouldn't stick around in known dumpster fires like us (30 years running), Detroit (sucked from the Eisenhower adminstration until now, with basically outlier seasons about once every 15 years) etc. 

 

He was absolutely nuts to return, same with Payne, same with McLaurin. Just look at poor Allen Robinson, dude spent his entire pro bowl career playing for bottom 5th-10th percentile QB's, and he's gonna retire soon, having wasted all of his youth and prime on scrub teams w/horrific Quarterbacking. You just can't do that. You can't. If winning matters, and playoff football and all that. 

[Est.1974]

51 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I made the point about Allen a couple of hours back. We absolutely should have traded him at the deadline (even though he’s currently my ‘favourite’ player).

 

That said, I don’t know the offer 😂 not sure that was ever reported. I reckon he’ll push for a move and an extended contract elsewhere.  He won’t get that here as long as we’ve got Payne on that contract of his. And he may actually want to win big in the next 2-3 season.

[clskinsfan]

4 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

He was absolutely nuts to return, same with Payne, same with McLaurin

There are other factors involved though. Such as uprooting your family to a new town for your kids. Those guys were all paid at a level high enough that there was no guarantee anyone else would match that amount of salary. I get that winning is important. But so is your families comfort and the generational wealth that you are being offered to stay.

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

There are other factors involved though. Such as uprooting your family to a new town for your kids. Those guys were all paid at a level high enough that there was no guarantee anyone else would match that amount of salary. I get that winning is important. But so is your families comfort and the generational wealth that you are being offered to stay.

Exactly. For a lot of guys its about securing long term money in a place they like to live in.

 

Say what you will about this franchise but the D.C. area is an awesome place to live. You have everything here. And its a great place to raise kids as well.

 

 

[Going Commando]

59 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

This is gutting.  We can't be losing guys like Allen and hope to build a winning culture.  They are necessary for reaching the level of true competitiveness.

 

Losing his buy in is just one more piece of evidence that this franchise is bottom barrel and all of the players know they are doing time here.  This team is hard to root for.

 

If he asks out, I would respect his request because he's earned the right and I wouldn't like forcing players to be here against their will.  But I truly hope he doesn't do that.

[Warhead36]

11 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

This is gutting.  We can't be losing guys like Allen and hope to build a winning culture.  They are necessary for reaching the level of true competitiveness.

 

Losing his buy in is just one more piece of evidence that this franchise is bottom barrel and all of the players know they are doing time here.  This team is hard to root for.

 

If he asks out, I would respect his request because he's earned the right and I wouldn't like forcing players to be here against their will.  But I truly hope he doesn't do that.

I like Allen and would respect his request as well, but at the end of the day we've never had a winning season with him here.

 

Its time for a complete and total reset. No player is super instrumental to building a winning culture when none of them have even really experienced winning.

[FrFan]

I'm concerned there will be others like Allen not wanting to be part of a rebuild.

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, FrFan said:

I'm concerned there will be others like Allen not wanting to be part of a rebuild.

That's fine. Get rid of all of em. What have any of them won here anyway?

 

We shouldn't be married to so many guys who never won anything.

[Est.1974]

Yep I’m not concerned either. Just get trade value and move on.

[Going Commando]

8 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I like Allen and would respect his request as well, but at the end of the day we've never had a winning season with him here.

 

Its time for a complete and total reset. No player is super instrumental to building a winning culture when none of them have even really experienced winning.

 

Allen knows what winning and playing at an elite standard is like from playing at Alabama.  And you can turn things around fast in the NFL as long as you have a bunch of good players in place and you get the right leadership (GM/HC/QB) to come in and set the foundation for the team.

 

IMO trading Allen would set us back more than we'd gain from the draft pick compensation.  He's exactly the kind of player I want to build upon with the next regime.  But if he asks out, then I don't see how to salvage the relationship and get him to want to stay and be a part of that.

[NYSkins21]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

There was a lot of interest in Allen at the deadline. He has a very good reputation around the league and most teams won't care that he's had a bit of a down year when the entire system was garbage. If a team offers at least a 3rd for him then let him go.

At the same time, isn’t this the type of mindset and expectations we want from the  players in our organization?

[FrFan]

44 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

That's fine. Get rid of all of em. What have any of them won here anyway?

 

We shouldn't be married to so many guys who never won anything.

They are not responsible in the first place for the lack of wins, who could have won anything with snyder at the helm ?. If you get rid of every one of them (vet starters) you're going to make the rebuild even harder without leaders.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

This is gutting.  We can't be losing guys like Allen and hope to build a winning culture.  They are necessary for reaching the level of true competitiveness.

 

Losing his buy in is just one more piece of evidence that this franchise is bottom barrel and all of the players know they are doing time here.  This team is hard to root for.

 

If he asks out, I would respect his request because he's earned the right and I wouldn't like forcing players to be here against their will.  But I truly hope he doesn't do that.

 

Listened to most of his weekly interviews this year, Allen comes off like a dude who doesn't believe in Rivera.  That's about to change so will see if he changes his mind accordingly.

36 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Allen knows what winning and playing at an elite standard is like from playing at Alabama.  And you can turn things around fast in the NFL as long as you have a bunch of good players in place and you get the right leadership (GM/HC/QB) to come in and set the foundation for the team.

 

IMO trading Allen would set us back more than we'd gain from the draft pick compensation.  He's exactly the kind of player I want to build upon with the next regime.  But if he asks out, then I don't see how to salvage the relationship and get him to want to stay and be a part of that.

 

Judging by some of his quotes and leaks that Terry isn't in love with this regime either.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Our WRs are good but there is not a game breaker among them. That's why I'm so high on getting Harrison jr and if we traded down wouldn't mind Coleman(don't know enough about Nabers but he feels too much like our current receivers: small ish and more speedy but not physically dominant). Our RBs are solid and both have developed quite nicely but again, no elite talent.

 

This team has on real game changing talent. Guys that other teams go "ahh dang we're facing THAT guy!?". A guy that can completely change a game. When was the last time we had a guy break a 60 yard TD? Or put up 150 yards 2-3 TDs? Or on defense when was the last time someone got multiple picks or a pick 6 or a strip sack etc. etc?

 

We have some good players and I wouldn't wanna just get rid of all of them, but we have got to add that game changing dynamic talent with what should be a top 5 pick.

 

It's a big need even though some don't think it is. 

 

Right now if i had to pick my ideal scenario

 

A. Harrison Jr.

B.  Trade down if you get a haul

C. QB, Daniels but only if the GM is unsure about Howell and isn't sold and love him or whomever else. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, FrFan said:

I'm concerned there will be others like Allen not wanting to be part of a rebuild.

I'm not concerned. At all. 

 

They deserve to go elsewhere. And we deserve a fresh start away from frustrations. Win/win.

[Warhead36]

25 minutes ago, FrFan said:

They are not responsible in the first place for the lack of wins, who could have won anything with snyder at the helm ?. If you get rid of every one of them (vet starters) you're going to make the rebuild even harder without leaders.

 

I'm not saying they are, but ultimately the entire core just needs to be nuked and reset. These guys are broken and need a fresh start. I feel bad because guys like McLaurin, Allen, and Payne deserve to be playing in big games and contending for rings.

[Koolblue13]

Look at how many of our fans have bailed and all we have to do is watch and try and find something to enjoy.

 

These guys have to give their entire everything and sacrifice a large part of their short careers. 

 

This is going to be an awesome offsason and things are going to change. 

[KDawg]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Look at how many of our fans have bailed and all we have to do is watch and try and find something to enjoy.

 

These guys have to give their entire everything and sacrifice a large part of their short careers. 

 

This is going to be an awesome offsason and things are going to change. 

I don't want to lose Allen/Terry/Payne/whoever...

 

But if they don't want to be a part of a rebuild they have my respect enough to say let 'em go. They deserve a chance. And should be getting that chance. They have sacrificed.

 

If they genuinely want to be here: Awesome! Love to have them.

 

Either way, I'm fine with it. Trade them and start re-building this team expansion style or keep them and use them as building blocks. 

 

We have so many holes losing them hurts but... meh.