2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think it’s a foregone conclusion that Drake Maye is going to be a Commander. 
 

The only real question is what Chicago does and if Williams is going to be available or not.

 

Judging by their local reporters and national ones, 90% chance or so they take a QB.

 

But just like the Cardinals did when they took Murray it behooves them to go on the dance  (like the Cards did with Rosen)  that its hard to call in order to jack up the price tag for Fields.

Edited January 10 by Skinsinparadise

[HTTRDynasty]

17 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

Given all the time we have between now and the draft I appreciate dissenting opinions. I do not like his take on Williams. The guy throws a very nice deep ball, makes solid off script plays when necessary and looks like a solid 1st round QB.  

Here’s some of his “inaccurate deep balls” evidence - some good mixed in with the bad.  Again, not saying I agree. 
 

 

[skinsfan66]

7 hours ago, skinsarethebest said:

There is a school of thought (not sure I’m in that camp yet) that a draft where we end up with MHJ is a decent outcome.  I would say that only could be true if we also found a way to trade back into the first round for a Daniels or Penix, or somehow  managed to sign a top tier FA QB.   But yeah if Howell remains penciled in as the starter for next season, I can’t see how this draft would be viewed as anything other than a colossal failure.

Not sharing that view at all. MHJ if he turns out to be what they predict, it's a hit. Look around the league you can see what a very top WR does for a team and when you lose one what it does. You still have the other Picks too, but would not if you traded up. 

[Skinsinparadise]

57 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Are we even going to be thinking about Safety? I think we probably resign Kurl. And Quan started playing respectably towards the end of the season.

 

Keim has said to death that the coaching staff recognized that part of the issues with this team getting killed with the deep ball is there is no one in the backfield that is good at directing traffic and they missed Bobby McCain.  McCain wasn't a great player but apparently he was their best communicator and director.

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Here’s some of his “inaccurate deep balls” evidence - some good mixed in with the bad.  Again, not saying I agree. 
 

 

 

I'm not real sure those clips prove what he thinks they do. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

 

SIP I dont know if you had a chance to watch that vid I posted of Maye yesterday or not. It was actually one of his poorer games last year. And there was still a TON to like there. The more I watch him the more he reminds me of a mix between Burrow and Herbert.

 

This thread or another?  I just looked here and couldn't find it.  At this point, I've watched so much Maye that all the games blend in.   His two worst games that I watched was Clemson and The U but he flashed in those games some, too.

 

 

 

Speaking of Bullard, look forward to watching him/

 

 

 

Edited January 10 by Skinsinparadise

[clskinsfan]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I'm not real sure those clips prove what he thinks they do. 

Agree completely. What I saw was horrific WR play more than anything else. But what do I know?

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This thread or another? 

This thread. It is an all 22 type breakdown. Pretty good if you have some time to kill.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

This thread. It is an all 22 type breakdown. Pretty good if you have some time to kill.

 

Ok, thanks, I'll look for it.  I've been majoring much of time watching Maye so am always ready to consume more. 

[skinsmania123]

5 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Here’s some of his “inaccurate deep balls” evidence - some good mixed in with the bad.  Again, not saying I agree. 
 

 

So, this looks like a small sampling of what respected posters on here have been talking about in terms of Williams sometimes shaky mechanics. But in his defense, he is under a lot of pressure in some of these, others not so much.  He does not set his feet well, at least in this small sampling, even when he is not under pressure.

 

This is some real average tape on the guy, and even some of those receptions, not the best throws I have ever seen.  But clearly Joe, purposively went after these to make a point. 

 

Still, I wonder, if maybe this year the Commanders will invest in a QB coach to work with their rookie QB especially if they keep Howell around, him as well.  I can't help but notice that Patrick Mahomes has a QB coach that has worked with him pretty much since his rookie year to work with him - Kafka and now Nagy. 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

 

SIP I dont know if you had a chance to watch that vid I posted of Maye yesterday or not. It was actually one of his poorer games last year. And there was still a TON to like there. The more I watch him the more he reminds me of a mix between Burrow and Herbert.

 

I watched it and there was some really good insight/breakdown in it.  I enjoyed it.  The guy who made the video understands coverages and concepts really well, but I think he kind of overlooked some of the pocket drama in his breakdown.  He had a couple of plays where he criticized Drake's throws/timings where he didn't really account for the pressure on them.  Situations where Drake couldn't step into it/was working around a rusher in the throwing lane, and I think he missed Drake's arm getting hit on one of the throws where the ball came out funny and he criticized the accuracy.  I also think that the evaluator kind of undersold how special Drake's pocket movement skills/instincts for dealing with the rush are.  This is one of the big reasons he and Caleb are in a tier of their own.

 

I also think he underrated Drake's arm a bit.  He thought it was an A- arm, I'm confident it's an A.  Not a big difference, I know, but I think A- isn't accurate.  Set aside the elite moving/off platform throwing ability and just consider the power on display where he hits these far hash fades/posts 30 yards down field with no loading up for the throw.  Just upperbody power.  Dimes where the ball travels 50 yards in the air and lands on the money.  I think the only guys in the NFL with a stronger arm than him are going to be Josh Allen, Anthony Richardson, Patrick Mahomes, and Caleb Williams.  I think he is in the same tier as Herbert, Lawrence, Stafford, and Rodgers for power.

 

I like your Burrow/Herbert comp.  I see some Josh Allen myself.  Particularly in the way he runs.  I think there is a similar "athletic arrogance" where Drake will do stuff like jumping over defenders in the open field just like Allen does.  He plays with fearlessness.  And there is a really strong vein of backyard football creativity in Drake's game (like that left handed TD completion from the Pittsburgh game that you posted) that Josh Allen kind of epitomizes.

[clskinsfan]

6 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I watched it and there was some really good insight/breakdown in it.  I enjoyed it.  The guy who made the video understands coverages and concepts really well, but I think he kind of overlooked some of the pocket drama in his breakdown.  He had a couple of plays where he criticized Drake's throws/timings where he didn't really account for the pressure on them.  Situations where Drake couldn't step into it/was working around a rusher in the throwing lane, and I think he missed Drake's arm getting hit on one of the throws where the ball came out funny and he criticized the accuracy.  I also think that the evaluator kind of undersold how special Drake's pocket movement skills/instincts for dealing with the rush are.  This is one of the big reasons he and Caleb are in a tier of their own.

 

I also think he underrated Drake's arm a bit.  He thought it was an A- arm, I'm confident it's an A.  Not a big difference, I know, but I think A- isn't accurate.  Set aside the elite moving/off platform throwing ability and just consider the power on display where he hits these far hash fades/posts 30 yards down field with no loading up for the throw.  Just upperbody power.  Dimes where the ball travels 50 yards in the air and lands on the money.  I think the only guys in the NFL with a stronger arm than him are going to be Josh Allen, Anthony Richardson, Patrick Mahomes, and Caleb Williams.  I think he is in the same tier as Herbert, Lawrence, Stafford, and Rodgers for power.

 

I like your Burrow/Herbert comp.  I see some Josh Allen myself.  Particularly in the way he runs.  I think there is a similar "athletic arrogance" where Drake will do stuff like jumping over defenders in the open field just like Allen does.  He plays with fearlessness.  And there is a really strong vein of backyard football creativity in Drake's game (like that left handed TD completion from the Pittsburgh game that you posted) that Josh Allen kind of epitomizes.

Great take. I agree with all of it. I am actually glad he broke down a game where Maye had a couple of picks. The first one was the WR. The second was just a bad throw. Not enough loft on the ball. I think Mayes arm is excellent. But I agree it isnt top 5. WIlliams arm? Yeah. It is special. 

Edited January 10 by clskinsfan

[skinsfan66]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

This thread or another?  I just looked here and couldn't find it.  At this point, I've watched so much Maye that all the games blend in.   His two worst games that I watched was Clemson and The U but he flashed in those games some, too.

 

 

 

Speaking of Bullard, look forward to watching him/

 

 

 

Need to have our new Coaches and Staff on board and in full force for the senior bowl practices.  

[Wayne_Millner]

I think CW is like Mahomes, in the way that at his best, he will be better than anyone. DM is the most prototypical QB and JD is the wildcard with so much upside. 
 

For me:
 

1. Caleb Williams

2. Jayden Daniels

3. Drake Maye

 

 

Is it worth trading a first and a second to move up one spot? If you are 85% certain he’s Mahomes-esque it is. Otherwise probably not 

 

 

[Going Commando]

30 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Judging by their local reporters and national ones, 90% chance or so they take a QB.

 

But just like the Cardinals did when they took Murray it behooves them to go on the dance  (like the Cards did with Rosen)  that its hard to call in order to jack up the price tag for Fields.

 

Yep.  It's time for Poles to cash in his chips and make a decision at QB.  And I think he's going to go for the super blue chip QB prospect with Mahomesian upside.  An opportunity like that is why you stockpile assets.

 

I don't even care about Williams any more because I'm on the Drake Maye bandwagon.  Yeah you get a little tinge of envy looking at Williams's genius plays, but I am so thrilled about the opportunity to get Maye, that I'm feeling good regardless.

 

I was listening to the Atlanta sports radio guys discuss the firing of Arthur Smith, and the beat reporters think that Arthur Blank is going to try and hire Belichick.  He's kind of cleared the deck for Belichick, and the GM Terry Fontenot is kind of in the background for that organization.  Doesn't have a lot of power compared to other GMs, and has a reputation for flexibility.  I actually think Atlanta is the betting favorite to hire Belichick and trade for Justin Fields.  How does this relate to us?  I think it's the domino that precedes Caleb Williams going #1 to Chicago and Drake going #2 to us.

 

I would also like to poach Atlanta's DC Ryan Nielsen.  That Falcons defense was crappy for years, and he got them playing like a top ten-ish defense this year.  Top five for scoring defense I believe.  That defense is not exactly brimming with impressive talent either.  He also did a really good job with the Saints, and apparently Trey Hendrickson credits Nielsen for his development.  The Atlanta DLs rave about him, even old heads like Grady Jarrett and Calais Campbell.

 

I think we can manage a quick turnaround on defense if we can hire Nielsen, maybe bring over Okudah and Calais Campbell with him, get somebody like JT Tuimaloa with our high second rounder, and then get Payton Wilson in the middle rounds.

[Inigo Montoya]

The football player Williams is as exciting a prospect as there is, his dad and “the entitled brat” noise has to be vetted. We can’t have all that noise, it’s too detrimental… if that all gets vetted, I’m all in for a trade up

[Going Commando]

21 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Great take. I agree with all of it. I am actually glad he broke down a game where may had a couple of picks. The first one was the WR. The second was just a bad throw. Not enough loft on the ball. I think Mayes arm is excellent. But I agree it isnt top 5. WIlliams arm? Yeah. It is special. 

 

Yeah that second pick was a lesson learned about the speed of zone defenders breaking on those late wide angle throws near the sideline.  IIRC it was a high-low where the high option was open and Drake read it right ostensibly.  The DB just crushed it and made a special play and taught Drake you have to throw those high.

 

I liked the point that the evaluator made about recognizing that Drake was demonstrating in-game learning.  The kid is smart and you can see that he's in his sponge phase where he's soaking up info about coverage and the game.  That also shows that he didn't get under siege or go into survival mode from the pressure.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 and then get Payton Wilson in the middle rounds.

 

I got to watch him, killer PFF grades

 

 

[Going Commando]

6 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

The football player Williams is as exciting a prospect as there is, his dad and “the entitled brat” noise has to be vetted. We can’t have all that noise, it’s too detrimental… if that all gets vetted, I’m all in for a trade up

 

I don't think there will be any trade up.  I don't think the Bears will offer Caleb Williams for any price.  The whole point of what they did last year was to get to achieve the opportunity to draft a kid like Caleb, and the only way I think they give that up is if Caleb forces his way to DC.  I can't see that happening at all.

 

This is going to be a chalky top ten because the prospects at the top of the draft are so strong and the board matches up with the team needs very cleanly.

[clskinsfan]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

killer PFF grades

I rarely agree with PFF. But I think he is the best LB in the draft. He does it all well. His medicals are going to be the big question mark. 

[Warhead36]

Bears won't trade out. Now if we like Daniels better than Maye(or like both equally)maybe we try to swap with the Patriots and pick up some extra picks knowing we get a guy we like either way.

[mhd24]

20 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Yep.  It's time for Poles to cash in his chips and make a decision at QB.  And I think he's going to go for the super blue chip QB prospect with Mahomesian upside.  An opportunity like that is why you stockpile assets.

 

I don't even care about Williams any more because I'm on the Drake Maye bandwagon.  Yeah you get a little tinge of envy looking at Williams's genius plays, but I am so thrilled about the opportunity to get Maye, that I'm feeling good regardless.

 

I was listening to the Atlanta sports radio guys discuss the firing of Arthur Smith, and the beat reporters think that Arthur Blank is going to try and hire Belichick.  He's kind of cleared the deck for Belichick, and the GM Terry Fontenot is kind of in the background for that organization.  Doesn't have a lot of power compared to other GMs, and has a reputation for flexibility.  I actually think Atlanta is the betting favorite to hire Belichick and trade for Justin Fields.  How does this relate to us?  I think it's the domino that precedes Caleb Williams going #1 to Chicago and Drake going #2 to us.

 

I would also like to poach Atlanta's DC Ryan Nielsen.  That Falcons defense was crappy for years, and he got them playing like a top ten-ish defense this year.  Top five for scoring defense I believe.  That defense is not exactly brimming with impressive talent either.  He also did a really good job with the Saints, and apparently Trey Hendrickson credits Nielsen for his development.  The Atlanta DLs rave about him, even old heads like Grady Jarrett and Calais Campbell.

 

I think we can manage a quick turnaround on defense if we can hire Nielsen, maybe bring over Okudah and Calais Campbell with him, get somebody like JT Tuimaloa with our high second rounder, and then get Payton Wilson in the middle rounds.

 

 

Atlanta is in an interesting spot.  Normally, I'd say Vrabel would be perfect there, but he's not going to replace his buddy Arthur Smith.  Belichick makes sense because they play in a crappy division without any elite QBs.  He can win right away there.  The issue is who can Atlanta get?  If I were them, I'd back up the brinks truck for Kirk if I can.  

 

If we hire Ben Johnson as coach, I wonder who he would hire as his DC?  It's the biggest decision he can make.  

Edited January 10 by mhd24

[Going Commando]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I got to watch him, killer PFF grades

 

He's a fun watch, and I like him better than Cooper and Trotter, both of whom I also like.  Wilson pretty much as it all.  Size, speed, and elite instincts.  Truth be told, he's definitely a top 50 player in this class, but someone else in the thread said he had injury issues that will drop him to the middle rounds.

 

I don't know what his injury issues are, so I would pick him with our second round 2 pick TBH.  But so much the better if we can get him in round three.  An edge like Tuimaloah + a stack linebacker like Wilson and a greybeard leader for the DL who has seen it all like Calais Campbell + keep Fuller and sign a high upside DB like McKinney or Okudah and I think we're in business.  Wilson's your rookie green dot and frees Jamin up to play a more natural chase and hit/blitzing role.  Tuimaloah (or maybe Braswell, but I'm less impressed with him) adds some vastly needed juice to the edge rotation without taking half our cap space.  Campbell lets you spell Allen and Payne and shows them how to be better pros + gets you more versatility in your front.  Add an aggressive DB with an alpha mentality like Okudah or McKinney to a group that already has some young talent in it, and expect some growth from Forbes and Martin and Forrest, and I think the defense gets good next season.

[mhd24]

Just now, Going Commando said:

 

He's a fun watch, and I like him better than Cooper and Trotter, both of whom I also like.  Wilson pretty much as it all.  Size, speed, and elite instincts.  Truth be told, he's definitely a top 50 player in this class, but someone else in the thread said he had injury issues that will drop him to the middle rounds.

 

I don't know what his injury issues are, so I would pick him with our second round 2 pick TBH.  But so much the better if we can get him in round three.  An edge like Tuimaloah + a stack linebacker like Wilson and a greybeard leader for the DL who has seen it all like Calais Campbell + keep Fuller and sign a high upside DB like McKinney or Okudah and I think we're in business.  Wilson's your rookie green dot and frees Jamin up to play a more natural chase and hit/blitzing role.  Tuimaloah (or maybe Braswell, but I'm less impressed with him) adds some vastly needed juice to the edge rotation without taking half our cap space.  Campbell lets you spell Allen and Payne and shows them how to be better pros + gets you more versatility in your front.  Add an aggressive DB with an alpha mentality like Okudah or McKinney to a group that already has some young talent in it, and expect some growth from Forbes and Martin and Forrest, and I think the defense gets good next season.

My #1 FA target would be the Carolina LB Frankie Luvu.  I also think we will target multiple edge rushers in FA (there are many of them).  

 

I think we are forced to draft at least one OL with our 2nd rounders.  The FA isn't great unless we want to gamble on Tyron Smith (ala when the Rams signed Whitworth late in his career).

[Ball Security]

6 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

Atlanta is in an interesting spot.  Normally, I'd say Vrabel would be perfect there, but he's not going to replace his buddy Arthur Smith.  Belichick makes sense because they play in a crappy division without any elite QBs.  He can win right away there.  The issue is who can Atlanta get?  If I were them, I'd back up the brinks truck for Kirk if I can.  

 

If we hire Ben Johnson as coach, I wonder who he would hire as his DC?  It's the biggest decision he can make.  

Shane Bowen for DC.

 

Yeah, Kirk in Atlanta will help them take the next step. They could be an 11-12 win team with him in that division.

[Going Commando]

5 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Atlanta is in an interesting spot.  Normally, I'd say Vrabel would be perfect there, but he's not going to replace his buddy Arthur Smith.  Belichick makes sense because they play in a crappy division without any elite QBs.  He can win right away there.  The issue is who can Atlanta get?  If I were them, I'd back up the brinks truck for Kirk if I can.  

 

If we hire Ben Johnson as coach, I wonder who he would hire as his DC?  It's the biggest decision he can make.  

 

I think they're the favorites to get Fields.  People seem to really like him here in Atlanta because he was a pretty big deal as a local in High School.  I think they've been holding a candle for him ever since he transferred to Ohio State, and I think they would definitely be the most likely fanbase to welcome him with open arms and get behind a plan to build around him.  I bet they would much rather have Fields than Cousins.