2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skins199021]

17 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Kdawg, do you think breakout age matters much for Leggette? He did very little before this year. 

I’ll speak to this as a SC alum who watches them a lot.

 

He kind of just had a hard time seeing the field but mostly because of transfers and vets.

 

Last season he had a healthy Juice Wells, Jalen Brooks, and Josh Vann ahead of him. 
 

He was a bit lost in the Shuffle but once he got atop the depth chart he signed this year 

 

he is legit he plays like AJ Brown 

 

[clskinsfan]

Just found out I am driving to the Keys with my wife for night 2 of the draft....Nightmare..... Anyways. I will be here for the build up. So let me start with these:

 

Williams works the pocket. I know his average throw time is like 4 seconds....I wonder why? Here is some FRESHMAN  love. I will give you TONS more the next few months:

 

 

 

 

 

Oh baby~

 

 

 

 

Roll right and rip

 

 

Pressure? What pressure?

 

 

 

What athleticism?

Edited January 1 by clskinsfan

[method man]

Hypothetical question: Would you trade the Bears pick to the Packers for Tucker Kraft? Knowing we would have a guy who already looks like a top 10 TE on a rookie deal for three more years on a rookie deal, I think I would. I think the Packers would consider it given Musgrave looked good too before he got hurt

Edited January 1 by method man

[clskinsfan]

Thats enough for tonight. TONS more to come over the next couple of months. Happy Newyear!!!!

[clskinsfan]

What is Caleb Williams? Is he human?

 

[Commander202]

4 hours ago, Jumbo said:

 

 

I'm so old that almost every year I see some rb I want to draft too high for most everyone else's taste, inc. taking guys like bijan or gibbs or hall in the first rnd 🙃

Same, I like Robinson but we are lacking speed .  Be nice to get a Reggie bush/Sproles type of back on the team. 
 

Heck.. a Chris Thompson type 

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

What is Caleb Williams? Is he human?

 

he’s going to be a redskins/commander 

 

 

GOD 

2 hours ago, method man said:

Hypothetical question: Would you trade the Bears pick to the Packers for Tucker Kraft? Knowing we would have a guy who already looks like a top 10 TE on a rookie deal for three more years on a rookie deal, I think I would. I think the Packers would consider it given Musgrave looked good too before he got hurt

We need a tight end badly, I do think tho we should use those second rounders on a Tackle/DE. Third round can be a tight end 

 

3 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Just found out I am driving to the Keys with my wife for night 2 of the draft....Nightmare..... Anyways. I will be here for the build up. So let me start with these:

 

Williams works the pocket. I know his average throw time is like 4 seconds....I wonder why? Here is some FRESHMAN  love. I will give you TONS more the next few months:

 

 

 

 

 

Oh baby~

 

 

 

 

Roll right and rip

 

 

Pressure? What pressure?

 

 

 

What athleticism?

 

Him rolling to the right and throwing a dart reminds me of Rodgers in his prime .

Edited January 1 by Commander202

[KDawg]

6 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Kdawg, do you think breakout age matters much for Leggette? He did very little before this year. 

I don’t concern myself with breakout age all that much. I think it matters more for backs simply due to the beating they take. 
 

I guess there are scenarios where it means more in my eyes. A 26 year old college senior beating up on 18-19 year olds is always something to consider. But the 23ish year old doesn’t bother me much.

[KDawg]

Jayden Daniels

 

Physical Traits:

-6'4 210ish. Probably a sub 4.5 40 yard dash. 

 

Traits wise he has an absolutely elite trait, his speed. While nowadays a sub 4.5 doesn't seem fast, watching him move in the open field is stunning. His speed is his super power. His issue is, that even though he's 210, he's a frail looking 210. 

 

Arm Talent

He has an arm on par with Rattler and Williams. But at times he makes it look even more effortless than either of those two. 

 

His accuracy on deep balls can be spotty, depending on pressure at times. In-breaking routes are his bread and butter. He'll create yards with fantastic throws downfield that lead the receiver perfectly. Even his verticals can be things of beauty, but he's more spotty with those. 

 

One very noticeable trait with Daniels arm, though, is that it's not displayed all that often on short and intermediate stuff. He's a shot taker and likes to use his arm on downfield stuff. His accuracy is spotty at the second level when there are defenders near by, but when he has open targets his pin points them. But he misses way more often than I'd like to see on the shorter stuff, like arrows to the sideline or swings to the back. Sometimes he's not even close to the target on that stuff... He struggles on any kind of route that breaks back to the QB with where to place it as well. But he has some really good touch when he uncorks one. 

 

His actual release is like lightning though. 

 

Pocket Presence

He holds the ball for a long time. It's funny because I actually think Rattler does the best with getting the ball out in time out of the quarterbacks I've watched in detail. The top guys all hold it for a while. Some of that is that they create extra time with their legs. But part of it is that they legitimately hold the ball entirely too long in the pocket. 

 

He stands tall in the pocket and delivers the ball when he has a receiver that is about to break open and he has a good instinct about when he's supposed to bail. Sometimes he bails into traffic, but he knows when he needs to get out. But the bailing into traffic seems to occur most often when he holds the ball too long trying to make something happen. 

 

Mechanics

His drop is smooth and consistent. But his throwing motion is not. And he has a "ball pat" hitch sometimes. Pressure causes his mechanics to break down and he panics with movement in the pocket becoming a bit erratic. When his mechanics are on though, he's smooth and the ball just sizzles from his hand. It can look like a literal rope. He's another QB who loves the jump throw that often leads to trouble. 

 

Seeing the Field

The biggest issue with his game. He very clearly struggles getting off the primary reads of a route concept and getting to the next set. And when he does successfully identify the second or third read and deliver the ball to them, that's when his internal clock is telling him to rush and the mechanics fall apart. 

 

He actually does a better job reading the levels on the run. My pet theory is that because he's already running he can identify a high/low defender and pick out which route will pop open and/or if it will and then get downhill. Since he is moving already, he's comfortable with reads because he knows if all else fails he can take off and make something happen. 

 

Operating from the pocket you can tell that he is nervous that his escape lanes are going to get clogged and I think that is the biggest reason why he struggles to see the field. I think he understands what he's seeing and on a white board can most likely tell you exactly what is going on. But the pressure/pocket break downs make his internal clock accelerate.

 

This is an issue heading into the NFL because LSU's line did a real nice job. So if his clock is accelerating with that line in front of him, going to a bad team is going to be an experience for him that could be difficult at first. 

 

Playmaking

He throws a tremendous deep ball with the flick of his wrist. But his real super power is his ability to run. He is a nightmare for defenses because if he gets out of the pocket you won't find a more dangerous player in the class. 

 

Passing: 3,812 yards, 40 TD, 4 INT.

Rushing: 1,134 yards, 10 TD

 

Not only did he rush for over 1,000 yards (and keep in mind, sacks count against rushing totals) but he makes it look easy. He has great vision when he breaks the pocket (which is why he is so comfortable on roll out passes). He's not as good vision wise when there is traffic, but that's hard to do anyways. But he's still very evasive in the pocket.

 

How Does He Translate to the NFL

It will be interesting. I think from a trait department, he's the only one of the top three with an elite trait. Williams has elite skills, Maye has ideal size but not necessarily anything that screams elite. Daniels has elite speed. And his acceleration is fantastic. 

 

But he struggles a little bit with pocket breakdowns and seeing the field and his mid to low range accuracy is questionable. He HAS to improve those things in the NFL. Luckily for him, he has a crutch to lean on while he learns (similarly to Josh Allen who also struggled significantly with accuracy) and that is his legs. 

 

I don't think there is a bigger boom/boom prospect in this draft class than Jayden Daniels. He is the ultimate boom/bust. He's either going to land in a place that buys in fully and sticks with him through his struggles and surrounds him with the kinds of players he needs to succeed and really flourish...

 

Or he's going to find a place that is impatient and he busts really badly. 

 

I think his situation is a MAJOR piece for him. But if he lands in the right one he's going to be a problem in the league for years to come. In that way he is a lot like Lamar Jackson, though I don't really see the Lamar comparisons otherwise. In college Lamar was much less of a passer and more of a runner. He wanted to run. Daniels is fine throwing. They are different. But landing in the right situation is huge for Daniels.

 

I'm going to take a look at Drake Maye later. He's the only major prospect I haven't done one of these for yet. 

 

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, method man said:

Hypothetical question: Would you trade the Bears pick to the Packers for Tucker Kraft? Knowing we would have a guy who already looks like a top 10 TE on a rookie deal for three more years on a rookie deal, I think I would. I think the Packers would consider it given Musgrave looked good too before he got hurt

 

I would.  He just missed my vaunted "my" guys list     I put 5 guys after my normal list because it would be too big if I listed all of them.  He was one of those 5.

 

High intangibles.  Big time YAC guy.  Can block, too. Used to play RB.  I admit though I haven't watched him and the Packers much so I know the college version much more than the pros.

 

But why would GB trade him?

Edited January 1 by Skinsinparadise

[cakmoney61]

My observations after watching Caleb Williams' highlights:

 

1.  He looks very small which is a bit concerning.

2.  He reminds me of the great Fran Tarkenton when he scrambles around in the pocket.  For those who don't know, look him up.  He was a nightmare for defenses when plays broke down.

3.  His arm (combined with his vision) makes him a threat anywhere on the field.

 

The first time I saw Caleb play, which was last year, he looked like a man among boys.  I was thinking he's the kind of QB Washington needs but will have no chance of getting.  They absolutely can get him if they want him.

[clskinsfan]

8 hours ago, Commander202 said:

Him rolling to the right and throwing a dart reminds me of Rodgers in his prime .

That ball was 40 yards on a rope while moving. It is a ridiculous throw.

[RWJ]

30 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

That ball was 40 yards on a rope while moving. It is a ridiculous throw.

Williams is a smaller version of Pat Mahomes in many similarities.  Does it translate over to the NFL?  We have to wait to see him play in the NFL to see.  This from @KDawg post is why I am about Daniels #1: "It will be interesting. I think from a trait department, he's the only one of the top three with an elite trait. Williams has elite skills, Maye has ideal size but not necessarily anything that screams elite. Daniels has elite speed. And his acceleration is fantastic."

 

This is not something that is not taught but your born with.  Let an OC teach him properly the game at the NFL level and he's supposed to be very coachable and the sky's the limit.  Do you take a chance with him or go with Drake.  It's hard to say.  Our GM makes or breaks with that decision.  

Edited January 1 by RWJ

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

Jayden Daniels

 

It will be interesting. I think from a trait department, he's the only one of the top three with an elite trait. Williams has elite skills, Maye has ideal size but not necessarily anything that screams elite. Daniels has elite speed. And his acceleration is fantastic. 

 

But he struggles a little bit with pocket breakdowns and seeing the field and his mid to low range accuracy is questionable. He HAS to improve those things in the NFL. Luckily for him, he has a crutch to lean on while he learns (similarly to Josh Allen who also struggled significantly with accuracy) and that is his legs. 

 

I don't think there is a bigger boom/boom prospect in this draft class than Jayden Daniels. He is the ultimate boom/bust. He's either going to land in a place that buys in fully and sticks with him through his struggles and surrounds him with the kinds of players he needs to succeed and really flourish...

 

Or he's going to find a place that is impatient and he busts really badly. 

 

I think his situation is a MAJOR piece for him. But if he lands in the right one he's going to be a problem in the league for years to come. In that way he is a lot like Lamar Jackson, though I don't really see the Lamar comparisons otherwise. In college Lamar was much less of a passer and more of a runner. He wanted to run. Daniels is fine throwing. They are different. But landing in the right situation is huge for Daniels.

 

I'm going to take a look at Drake Maye later. He's the only major prospect I haven't done one of these for yet. 

 

 

 

I agree with most of this.

 

My main concern about Daniels is from my watches, he doesn't throw much with anticipation on the first-2nd level.  He waits for guys to get open and their WRs were great at seperation and YAC especially Nabers.  I love his mobility-running ability.  i like his deep ball.  But I wonder about him in the pros as to dealing with games when he has to make snap decisons and throw before receivers are open.  But I am still very intrigued.

 

As to Drake Maye, he's the dude that has grown on me the most among the top 3 the more i watch. I've been watching a lot of him in the last 2 weeks or so.  Just watched 2 more games last night and another this morning.  Hitting up his 2022 stuff now.  I am actually getting more jazzed if they end up with the #2 pick if he's the target.  I am excited about Daniels, too but he's a harder gauge for me for some of the reasons you mentioned and I've mentioned previously.  Daniels is electric and exciting.  Maye is neither.  But I'd be surprised if he's not at a minimum is a good Qb in the pros, and I'd put even more money that he's very good -- and great to me is within reach potentally.

 

lol, I am no footwork-mechanics expert on QBs.  My cheat code is just looking to see if their base-footwork looks consistent and is pointed square at their target and Maye on that front to my eyes when he is in the pocket looks very smooth and consistent. 

 

He's really decisive and seems to read the field quickly.  Looks like an NFL starter on that front.  2.5-3 seconds and boom, the ball is out.  While that's not always the case its often enough where it's tool in his tool belt.

 

As for what his superpower is?  My guess as I've said previously but I'll double down on it after watching him some more -- quick processing-vision coupled with the arm strength to make throws on any level of the field -- out routes, he can hit the far hash effortlessly, in breaking routes, first level, 2nd, 3rd.  Post, corner routes, slants.    His arm strength might not be as obvious as some others because its so effortless from him.  He doesn't always have to put his body into his throws.  He changes speeds well. But I'd like to more loop-air on some of his deep balls -- giving opportunties for receivers to get under the ball.

 

His inconsistent accuracy used to bother me more but it bothers me a bit less the more I watch because its often safe misses.  He aims the ball away from the defender and sometimes does it too much and the throws in turn are errant, often on the first level to my eyes and on out routes.  I think much of his accuracy issues happen when he skates out of pocket and throws on the move.  He doesn't always readjust his footwork on that front and throws off balance.  He can still make some highlight throws when he does sp but he can be a bit wild too when he's flushed out of the pocket -- he's no Caleb Williams off script but he doesn't suck at it either.

 

I think he's going to be a really good pro.  I know you compare him closely to Howell and that's not a shot from you because you really dug Howell in college.  IMHO Drake is a distinctly better prospect. I dug Howell too not to the same extent as you but he was someone I was excited about in the 2nd round range.   He does have two of the same weaknesses of Howell IMO which is when he holds on to the ball too long in the pocket, they both come off a bit clunky when they are being chased and are brought down too much for my liking.  And they fall in love with their arm some as to making contested throws which can lead to picks.  They are both tough in the pocket and are ballers. So i get the idea that there is some similar flavor with them. 

 

Drake's tools IMO scream that he's a complete QB in the NFL.  He has the height-size.  Arm strength.  His accuracy needs work but its plenty good enough IMO from the context of he can make throws on all levels, of any kind.   He processes quickly most of the time (not always but plenty enough) and seems to have good vision.  He can run, as I've mentioned before he reminds me of a faster Daniel Jones as a runner.   His accuracy in between the numbers especially 2nd level when he's throwing from the pocket is excellent.

 

And from what I've read he's a good dude.  Works hard.   Safe pick IMO with enough upside that I'd be jazzed to have him,

 

 

 

 

Edited January 1 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, KDawg said:

I don’t concern myself with breakout age all that much. I think it matters more for backs simply due to the beating they take. 
 

I guess there are scenarios where it means more in my eyes. A 26 year old college senior beating up on 18-19 year olds is always something to consider. But the 23ish year old doesn’t bother me much.

 

Me either.    When I used to argue on behalf of Terry McLaurin before that draft, I got some pushback because of his breakout age among other things.  But the bottom line was he had traits that I thought were easy to see when watching him.   

 

Legette just jumps at you when you watch him.  I hope the mock drafters are right and he falls to the early 2nd.  I'd kill to get him there.

Edited January 1 by Skinsinparadise

[Anselmheifer]

A trade up for Williams and Leggette in the second would be so exciting. 

[philibusters]

59 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Williams is a smaller version of Pat Mahomes in many similarities.  Does it translate over to the NFL?  We have to wait to see him play in the NFL to see.  This from @KDawg post is why I am about Daniels #1: "It will be interesting. I think from a trait department, he's the only one of the top three with an elite trait. Williams has elite skills, Maye has ideal size but not necessarily anything that screams elite. Daniels has elite speed. And his acceleration is fantastic."

 

This is not something that is not taught but your born with.  Let an OC teach him properly the game at the NFL level and he's supposed to be very coachable and the sky's the limit.  Do you take a chance with him or go with Drake.  It's hard to say.  Our GM makes or breaks with that decision.  

 

Malik Willis also had elite speed.  I liked Daniels, when I thought we would be picking in the 3 to 5 range I was very intrigued (and who knows we still may) but I am going Caleb Williams or Drake Maye over him if I have the choice.

[KDawg]

Drake Maye

 

Physical Traits:

6-4, 230. Maye has the prototypical size for a NFL quarterback. He is the best positioned, size wise, in the class. He has a projection of around a 4.6 40 yard dash on most sites I see. My eye says that's close. I'd say closer to 4.65-4.7. But it's ballpark for sure. 

 

Arm Talent

Good arm. More than NFL capable. It's similar to Williams, Rattler and Daniels. He has the strength to get the ball out and connect anywhere on the field.

 

His accuracy is best from the pocket. When he breaks the pocket, unlike Williams and Daniels, his accuracy plumets. He is not a guy that wants to throw on the run. He WILL throw on the run. But he does his best work from inside the "umbrella". 

 

His accuracy also seems to drop a bit when pressure comes. When the pocket collapses his mechanics break down (more on that later) very routinely and the ball sails or just completely misses the target. 

 

Pocket Presence

He holds the ball too long. And for a guy that likes to throw with a clean pocket, he needs to speed up that clock quickly. 

 

I think he has the worst overall pocket presence of the top guys. He gets nervous quickly and doesn't make quick decisions. 

 

Mechanics

When he has a clean pocket his mechanics are smooth. Though he doesn't have the lightning quick release that Rattler, Daniels or even Williams has, it's not an awful release. It's just more "windmilly". If the pocket is clean and his first read is looking solid he gets rid of the ball quickly. If the first read isn't open or the pocket clouds... way too long. 

 

His footwork suffers when pressure comes. 

 

He throws off of his back foot quite a bit and sometimes just plants and heaves because he thinks his receiver is going to get open. That will not translate to the NFL. 

 

Even with a clean pocket he sometimes struggles to get the ball to the slant in a place to maximize yards after the catch. 

 

One thing I noticed while watching the Clemson game is how many times he pats the football prior to throwing it on some downs. There was a down where Clemson was clearly going to be bringing pressure and he tapped the football about 5 times on his drop. That shows that he is subconsciously thinking about the rush before the play even happens. 

 

Seeing the Field

He's just not good at this. He's a one read and go guy most of the time. And when he hangs in the pocket he's waiting for a receiver to separate. Maye really struggles to throw guys open. He can get it to guys, but they are often tackled immediately unless he uncorks on a vertical route. That's where he can really put it on a guy in stride. When the game gets tough for UNC he doesn't even really read the defense. Again, referencing Clemson, towards the end of the game he was just throwing the ball wherever. Yes, part of that makes sense. Give your guys a chance. But, he may be taking chances from his guys by simply catching and throwing it out there and turning the ball over or running out of downs. 

 

He also gets sacked. A lot. And he takes some brutal shots (1st quarter against Minnesota being a huge one down the sideline). 

 

He also winds up throwing a bunch of "hospital" balls because he's not seeing the underneath coverage when he throws a slant sometimes and then he throws it behind more often than I'd like to see. So the receiver has to adjust and the coverage is coming downhill. 

 

Playmaking

He is a legitimate dual threat passer/runner. He's fast enough to break away from dlinemen and linebackers who are caught on reads. Athletic for a guy his size and runs with some authority (which can be a negative at times as well). 

 

How Does He Translate to the NFL

I'm not sure. He plays a lot like Sam Howell does, except taller. I know some people are annoyed with that take, but it's true. And even though the 3" difference seems like it would make a difference in batted balls, he gets his share of swats, too. Maye gets sacked a lot as well. He is very, very similar to Sam Howell as far as style and ability. He's a better athlete. And he's taller. Howell has better mid range accuracy and delivers a better pass when he's going to get hit. Both of them struggle to read the field fast enough.

 

Maye is a guy that is probably going to be a decent player down the line, but I don't think there is a bigger "Josh Allen" situation needed for anyone in this draft, including Jayden Daniels. Maye NEEDS support. He needs a strong line so he doesn't get happy footed and he needs organizational support no matter how much he struggles.

 

I don't think he's the top QB in this draft. In truth, he's probably better suited with less pressure being taken in the second or third. Having said that, he won't be. He has too much size and athleticism for a team to pass on him if they are quarterback needy in the top 5. So he's going to go in the top 5.

 

I think Bo Nix, Michael Penix (who I'm sure I'll do these for down the line) and Spencer Rattler are all "safer". But I'm not sure they have the same ceiling. It's hard not to look at the size and athleticism and wonder what could be with him. Josh Allen ran a 4.75 at the combine, Maye should beat that by a second or more. He's fast. 

 

I like him as a prospect, but just like with Daniels, he has to go somewhere he's going to be nurtured.

 

----

 

Now that I've done these for Williams, Maye, Daniels, Rattler, Pratt (I have watched the other guys, just not so in depth...) I can say that even though I am nowhere near as high on WIlliams as many here, I think he's the best QB in the draft. The personality issues not withstanding. He is the most ready to come in and play at a decent to high level right away, despite his flaws. Maye and Daniels' flaws far outweigh Williams (though size and personality are major problems for a QB prospect). 

 

For us, we may be in a situation where Daniels or Maye have to be the pick just based on traits and potential, but if we don't go Williams I almost think trading back and going after Nix, Penix or Rattler is a better plan as long as we can grab a vet.

 

Maye is scary to hitch your wagon to as a first rounder, imo.

Edited January 1 by KDawg

[method man]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I would.  He just missed my vaunted "my" guys list     I put 5 guys after my normal list because it would be too big if I listed all of them.  He was one of those 5.

 

High intangibles.  Big time YAC guy.  Can block, too. Used to play RB.  I admit though I haven't watched him and the Packers much so I know the college version much more than the pros.

 

But why would GB trade him?

I agree it is unlikely but they did draft Musgrave too who predictably got hurt, opening up a window for Kraft to play. Need to get creative as there aren’t easy solutions to TE1 outside of signing Schultz to a big deal in FA

[method man]

14 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Drake Maye

 

Physical Traits:

6-4, 230. Maye has the prototypical size for a NFL quarterback. He is the best positioned, size wise, in the class. He has a projection of around a 4.6 40 yard dash on most sites I see. My eye says that's close. I'd say closer to 4.65-4.7. But it's ballpark for sure. 

 

Arm Talent

Good arm. More than NFL capable. It's similar to Williams, Rattler and Daniels. He has the strength to get the ball out and connect anywhere on the field.

 

His accuracy is best from the pocket. When he breaks the pocket, unlike Williams and Daniels, his accuracy plumets. He is not a guy that wants to throw on the run. He WILL throw on the run. But he does his best work from inside the "umbrella". 

 

His accuracy also seems to drop a bit when pressure comes. When the pocket collapses his mechanics break down (more on that later) very routinely and the ball sails or just completely misses the target. 

 

Pocket Presence

He holds the ball too long. And for a guy that likes to throw with a clean pocket, he needs to speed up that clock quickly. 

 

I think he has the worst overall pocket presence of the top guys. He gets nervous quickly and doesn't make quick decisions. 

 

Mechanics

When he has a clean pocket his mechanics are smooth. Though he doesn't have the lightning quick release that Rattler, Daniels or even Williams has, it's not an awful release. It's just more "windmilly". If the pocket is clean and his first read is looking solid he gets rid of the ball quickly. If the first read isn't open or the pocket clouds... way too long. 

 

His footwork suffers when pressure comes. 

 

He throws off of his back foot quite a bit and sometimes just plants and heaves because he thinks his receiver is going to get open. That will not translate to the NFL. 

 

Even with a clean pocket he sometimes struggles to get the ball to the slant in a place to maximize yards after the catch. 

 

One thing I noticed while watching the Clemson game is how many times he pats the football prior to throwing it on some downs. There was a down where Clemson was clearly going to be bringing pressure and he tapped the football about 5 times on his drop. That shows that he is subconsciously thinking about the rush before the play even happens. 

 

Seeing the Field

He's just not good at this. He's a one read and go guy most of the time. And when he hangs in the pocket he's waiting for a receiver to separate. Maye really struggles to throw guys open. He can get it to guys, but they are often tackled immediately unless he uncorks on a vertical route. That's where he can really put it on a guy in stride. When the game gets tough for UNC he doesn't even really read the defense. Again, referencing Clemson, towards the end of the game he was just throwing the ball wherever. Yes, part of that makes sense. Give your guys a chance. But, he may be taking chances from his guys by simply catching and throwing it out there and turning the ball over or running out of downs. 

 

He also gets sacked. A lot. And he takes some brutal shots (1st quarter against Minnesota being a huge one down the sideline). 

 

He also winds up throwing a bunch of "hospital" balls because he's not seeing the underneath coverage when he throws a slant sometimes and then he throws it behind more often than I'd like to see. So the receiver has to adjust and the coverage is coming downhill. 

 

Playmaking

He is a legitimate dual threat passer/runner. He's fast enough to break away from dlinemen and linebackers who are caught on reads. Athletic for a guy his size and runs with some authority (which can be a negative at times as well). 

 

How Does He Translate to the NFL

I'm not sure. He plays a lot like Sam Howell does, except taller. I know some people are annoyed with that take, but it's true. And even though the 3" difference seems like it would make a difference in batted balls, he gets his share of swats, too. Maye gets sacked a lot as well. He is very, very similar to Sam Howell as far as style and ability. He's a better athlete. And he's taller. Howell has better mid range accuracy and delivers a better pass when he's going to get hit. Both of them struggle to read the field fast enough.

 

Maye is a guy that is probably going to be a decent player down the line, but I don't think there is a bigger "Josh Allen" situation needed for anyone in this draft, including Jayden Daniels. Maye NEEDS support. He needs a strong line so he doesn't get happy footed and he needs organizational support no matter how much he struggles.

 

I don't think he's the top QB in this draft. In truth, he's probably better suited with less pressure being taken in the second or third. Having said that, he won't be. He has too much size and athleticism for a team to pass on him if they are quarterback needy in the top 5. So he's going to go in the top 5.

 

I think Bo Nix, Michael Penix (who I'm sure I'll do these for down the line) and Spencer Rattler are all "safer". But I'm not sure they have the same ceiling. It's hard not to look at the size and athleticism and wonder what could be with him. Josh Allen ran a 4.75 at the combine, Maye should beat that by a second or more. He's fast. 

 

I like him as a prospect, but just like with Daniels, he has to go somewhere he's going to be nurtured.

 

----

 

Now that I've done these for Williams, Maye, Daniels, Rattler, Pratt (I have watched the other guys, just not so in depth...) I can say that even though I am nowhere near as high on WIlliams as many here, I think he's the best QB in the draft. The personality issues not withstanding. He is the most ready to come in and play at a decent to high level right away, despite his flaws. Maye and Daniels' flaws far outweigh Williams (though size and personality are major problems for a QB prospect). 

 

For us, we may be in a situation where Daniels or Maye have to be the pick just based on traits and potential, but if we don't go Williams I almost think trading back and going after Nix, Penix or Rattler is a better plan as long as we can grab a vet.

 

Maye is scary to hitch your wagon to as a first rounder, imo.

Did you look at his 2022 tape too? He shares another similarity with Sam, which is a rough season after an elite sophomore season. How does the 2022 tape compare to his 2023 tape?

[Skinsinparadise]

@KDawg

 

Good detailed long take on Maye, I disagree with a bunch of it.  But that's cool, to each their own.  It's what makes the draft thread fun.

 

I agree that Caleb is QB #1. But as to Drake being a 2nd round type prospect and highlighting variables that I (and some others) think are his strengths which you highlight instead are his weaknesses. so lol, I think we will be on different planets about Maye.

 

I haven't decided whether I'd want Maye over Daniels or vice versa if they are picking #2, I got to keep diving in.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 1 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

@KDawg

 

Good detailed long take on Maye, I disagree with a bunch of it.  But that's cool, to each their own.  It's what makes the draft thread fun.

 

I agree that Caleb is QB #1. But as to Drake being a 2nd round type prospect and highlighting variables that I (and some others) think are his strengths which you highlight instead are his weaknesses. so lol, I think we will be on different planets about Maye.

 

I haven't decided whether I'd want Maye over Daniels or vice versa if they are picking #2, I got to keep diving in.

 

 

 

 

I’m not sure what you view as strengths that I view as weaknesses. Haven’t really read your takes on him so I could keep my takes my own. 
 

But yes, to each their own. 
 

I think he’s a top 5 pick because of the way QBs are inflated. But like most years I don’t think these QBs are the top players in the draft. Maye probably, overall talent wise, falls much further down my overall ranking list. 

11 minutes ago, method man said:

Did you look at his 2022 tape too? He shares another similarity with Sam, which is a rough season after an elite sophomore season. How does the 2022 tape compare to his 2023 tape?

I have. He looked much the same. Having Downs was a major help. He did a really, really good job finding him and Downs was able to gain a ton of yards after the catch. 
 

I don’t think he’s much different than Howell stylistically or the way he plays. I really don’t. 
 

I think a higher draft position is justified just based on size and overall athleticism alone. But the issues are similar, I think his second level accuracy is worse, deep ball might be better. 
 

But I thought Howell looked largely the same in his film from his last two years at UNC, too, and didn’t understand how he went from “first rounder” to “5th rounder”. He changed his game and ran more in his last year. 
 

But I like Maye as a prospect overall. I don’t think he’s DOA or a bad player by any means. I just think his stock is artificially inflated because he’s a QB. Same for Daniels, really. And even Williams.

Edited January 1 by KDawg

[seantaylor=god]

Wohler DB from Wisconsin making some plays in this bowl game!

[clskinsfan]

Time to watch Bo Nix. 

[Chump Bailey]

Anyone watching the Vols Iowa game two interesting OLB's playing: Jay Higgins #34 Iowa is playing and Vols #6 Beasley might be.