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2023 NFL Draft Watch and Post Thread - The Hangover Special

KDawg

By KDawg
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method man

method man

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6 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

It's going to be Bergeron at 47 isn't it (who is soild but probably a 3rd round for a lot/most of the teams)?


Bergeron is not a 3rd round guy for most teams…I would be ecstatic if he is the pick. I love his story and journey and he is a total RR guy

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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I'll believe they are open to any spot -- only if it happens so color me skpetical for now.  Keim teases me just enough with some players I really love-like to set me up for dissapointment. :ols:

 

 

 

 

 

 

My take on those players he mentions.  In short.  And my preference in order

 

1.  Keion White. one of my favorite players in this draft.  Wicked bend for a dude who weights 280 plus.  Older prospect, 24, converted from offense to defense so still learning.  But he would be great IMO.  And it would be fighting fire with fire with the Eagles.   He can play DT or DE.  I talked in another context about the Giants winning a SB with having 3 pass rushers who can get home.  Keion would be our version of Justin Tuck.

 

2.  Brian Branch -- high floor player, elite tackler.  Great play recognition.  It will be like adding a slightly poor man's version of Minkah Fitzpatrick.  Decent ball skills.  Sounds like according to Keim this team sees him more as a FS.

 

3.  Matthew Bergeron.  Feels like a Rivera pick.   Meets a need and he's high character, smart.  Good player not great but really steady and can play guard and tackle.    Good potential in the run game -- he can move.  Good pick at 47.

 

4. Devon Achane -- you want an answer to the Eagles?  this dude would help.  Try to mitigate their pass rush with quick screens to a 4.3 speed running back with good hands and is a home run hitter.  Electric.   Can help solve our kick return issues. This feels very Bieniemy -- very non-Ronish pick. 

 

5.  Luke Musgrave -- good catch radius, high ceiling player.  Makes play after play on the 2nd level -- vertical threat.   don't like his physicality but otherwise am good with it.

 

6.   Drew Sanders.  @Koolblue13 deserves some football happiness, he said a few days ago he's bored with this draft.  This would change it in a heartbeat, enough said. :ols:

Sanders is a bit raw as a LB, missed too many tackles for my taste but he's new to the spot and I gather will grow.   He is a good pass rusher.  A poor man's Reddick or Parsons but without their speed and bend.

 

7.  Daiyen Henley.  @KDawg pushed him on the draft thread some, and I agree with him, good player, good play recognition, good open field tackler.  Use to play safety and has the size to hold up as big nickel.

 

8.  Sydney Brown.  If they take him and Rivera cites he had 6 picks and is ball hawk -- i'll quibble some with his point because watching him, almost every pick was just about being at the right place at the right time where the ball was thrown right to him.  Different drill than Forbes who made some great catches and had good anticipation.  But good player.   Freak ahtlete, good against the pass, physical against the run -- but not as good of a tackler as some other safeties that I like better.  High intangibles -- grew up with a family that didn't have much money.  He and his brother Chase are both killer athletes, good guys.  Wouldn't shock me if Rivera drafts both of the brothers.  it would add to the Canada component of this team, especially if they draft Bergeron a round earlier. 

 

9.  Antonio Johnson -- physical safety who comes downhill and clobbers people -- Laron Landry style.  And also Landry style he misses his share of tackles but hes much better than Landry was against the pass.  He's a tone setter, that would fit big nickle.  Not much as to ball skills.

 

10. Steve Avilia.  The draft media loves this guy.  He's a good interview.  I liked how he looked better at center than I did at LG.    But I can see them liking the fit. because he can play either spot and is a big dude, 330 plus pounds.  Doesn't have the quick feet when he's on the move, looks clunky.  But he anchors pretty well and is hard to blow up in pass protect. 

 

11. Zach Harrison -- freak of nature physically, 36 inch arms.  Big dude and decent speed for his size.  Good against the run.  But an underachiever at Ohio State.   He doesn't have the bend of Keion White.  Not very productive compared to other pass rushers in this tier.  So you are betting more on his upside.    There are other pass rushers in the late third that i'd likely prefer but I'd be good with this. 

 

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Redwards

Redwards

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7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Keim's today's podcast

 

A.  Unlike what he said on the Junkies, he flat out said they'd have liked to trade back.

 

B.  Basically suggested they were working lists in the first round at OT and CB.  Their top 4 OTs were gone so they worked their corner list and took the best corner left.  Witherspoon was their #1 CB.

 

C.  They liked Gonzalez but were bothered by his game against Georgia.  Porter they weren't going to go for.   Maybe Banks but they liked Forbes ball skills better.

 

D.  He's not sure if they would take Branch.  Seems like they like the player but don't like his size for big nickle.

 

E.  For Forbes they like his fit -- off coverage, eyes on the QB, ball hawk.   They like his swagger including him shrugging off being light weight wise as not mattering.

 

F.  For today.  Think O line-Big nickel (which could be safety or LB).  Sounds like the preference is O line first and then big nickel. 

 

I am extrapolating this part based on how Keim explained how they approached round 1 -- feels like they preferred OT but CB took over when their top 4 tackles were gone.

 

So with that same approach, I gather they have lists at O line and Big nickel for these rounds and will take the best one at both spots.  Favoring again O line but if by chance all the O lineman on their list are gone then they'd go big nickel in the 2nd.

 

He sort of implied that TE now is unlikely on for day 2 but maybe.  He mentioned just Musgrave this time.  No other TEs were mentioned.

 

Bergeron seems to be their top O lineman left on the board.  No mention of Dawand.

 

For LB -- hybrid.  Henley

 

Safety -- hybrid.  Antonio Johnson.

 

I talked some about Antonio Johnson on the draft thread.  He's a fun player IMO, he makes some hard hitting, tone setting tackles.   Well rounded safety -- good against the run and pass.  Good athlete.   I've read he's a smart dude.    Not a ball hawk though.

 

I like Quan Martin better but he's a different kind of player. 

 

If they like Antonio, surprised i haven't heard interest in Ji'ayir Brown.  He's similar stylistically IMO to Antonio but is more of a ball hawk.  But IMO Antonio would be fun in this defense -- crashing downhill to stop the run and is good against the pass, too. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you've mentioned, this is the problem with Ron and his FO: they predetermine what they are going to do instead of letting the draft come to them.  Yet, in pressers they claim otherwise.  This is simply not what a really good FO that can set a team up to win big does.  

 

You give Ron a lot more credit than I do when it comes to how effective he is as a FO guy.  I give him a C or C-.  But, grade aside, I agree with you that you simply can't win with him as the GM.  We have the worst FO in the division.  I just want Harris to come in here and when the time is appropriate, clean house in the FO and hopefully coaching staff.  Ron is the same as a GM as he is a coach: he's not horrid, but you're not gonna win the SB with him.  And that's all that counts - championships.  (Ron came in and served a limited purpose with culture, but he's no the guy to put you over the top.  He simply isn't a good enough coach, and he's demonstrated that time and time again.)  

 

I'm stoked to hear you report that Harris wants this organization to be like the Eagles in the FO.  That is exactly what we've missed all the years under Dan's ownership.  

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Conn

Conn

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I’m invested as usual but strangely not even stressed about the draft. Positive thoughts that register are still there while negative ones are catalogued in my mind and then generally muted. There’s just too much exciting change on the horizon, draft-wise, for next offseason for me to be too upset about the last draft of the RivERA. As long as guys we acquire could have some use for the next regime, that’s all I really care about.
 

The only pick that could really invalidate that and be a “waste” to our future imo would be using a premium pick on a trash QB out of desperation. I don’t see that happening, personally. Most of the tempting options are gone and if they fall further into the 3rd then the damage is limited. So I’m looking at every pick we make this year as a potential role player or starter for the future Washington braintrust, who won’t care anymore what round they were taken in. Yeah, I’d love great value picks used on future studs obviously, it would make the future easier on us. But if Rivera wants to play it safe and just grab solid guys who will play rather than taking swings that could boom or bust—alright, those guys will be part of the glue of our future rosters. This regime (and previous) have shown little ability for adding true difference makers in any round, so I’m not pressed if the trend continues to the last with Rivera. 


Only Howell being a stud would change the outcome this year, and that’s not really worth considering with so many wholistic changes on the horizon bc if it DOES happen, it’s enormous in a macro sense and invalidates everything else anyways—completely changes the algebra on the rest of the roster if he’s a stud so it wouldn’t really matter, but for other reasons than why I think it doesn’t currently matter that much anyways lol. 
 

So I’m vibing. I’ll still be happy or disappointed with each pick and have my opinions, but I won’t be falling into the depths of over-analysis depression over “bad” picks because my eyes are steady and locked ahead on the light at the end of the tunnel, not really worried about this season or this draft. It’s all gravy. Depending on how Howell looks early in the season, that will decide whether I’m even rooting for wins as we approach New Regime Day One. I might decide to go full “Crater for Caleb” if we start slow and Howell isn’t looking like a steal. For now, I’m zen. I’m accepting that whatever talent Rivera does or doesn’t add to the roster this weekend will be as a mere feather on the scales when the future arrives. Soon enough. 

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KDawg

KDawg

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1 minute ago, Daniel.redskins said:

If it's Bergeron or Steen, it makes the first round pick an easier pill to swallow.  I really don't think there is much of a drop off from the 1st round tackles to the 2nd.  We HAVE to draft a big boy in the second round.  We all saw who Philly and Dallas picked last night.  

You don't think there is a drop from Paris Johnson to Tyler Steen?

 

Have you started the Draft Party early? Visiting @Koolblue13's supplier?

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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14 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Mauch is the guy I hope they are able to select at #47.  

 

He's fun, sort of a poor man's Brandon Scherff.  Haven heard no mentions of interest.  But he's fit their desire to bring more nasty to the offense. 

 

7 minutes ago, Daniel.redskins said:

If it's Bergeron or Steen, it makes the first round pick an easier pill to swallow.  I really don't think there is much of a drop off from the 1st round tackles to the 2nd.  We HAVE to draft a big boy in the second round.  We all saw who Philly and Dallas picked last night.  

 

Assuming Dawand is off their board.  Bergeron IMO is the Last of the Mohicans at tackle.

 

I like Steen as a guard.  I don't think too many see him as a tackle in the NFL -- sub 33 inch arms.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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22 minutes ago, Conn said:

I’m invested as usual but strangely not even stressed about the draft. Positive thoughts that register are still there while negative ones are catalogued in my mind and then generally muted. There’s just too much exciting change on the horizon, draft-wise, for next offseason for me to be too upset about the last draft of the RivERA. As long as guys we acquire could have some use for the next regime, that’s all I really care about.
 

The only pick that could really invalidate that and be a “waste” to our future imo would be using a premium pick on a trash QB out of desperation. I don’t see that happening, personally. Most of the tempting options are gone and if they fall further into the 3rd then the damage is limited. So I’m looking at every pick we make this year as a potential role player or starter for the future Washington braintrust, who won’t care anymore what round they were taken in. Yeah, I’d love great value picks used on future studs obviously, it would make the future easier on us. But if Rivera wants to play it safe and just grab solid guys who will play rather than taking swings that could boom or bust—alright, those guys will be part of the glue of our future rosters. This regime (and previous) have shown little ability for adding true difference makers in any round, so I’m not pressed if the trend continues to the last with Rivera. 


Only Howell being a stud would change the outcome this year, and that’s not really worth considering with so many wholistic changes on the horizon bc if it DOES happen, it’s enormous in a macro sense and invalidates everything else anyways—completely changes the algebra on the rest of the roster if he’s a stud so it wouldn’t really matter, but for other reasons than why I think it doesn’t currently matter that much anyways lol. 
 

So I’m vibing. I’ll still be happy or disappointed with each pick and have my opinions, but I won’t be falling into the depths of over-analysis depression over “bad” picks because my eyes are steady and locked ahead on the light at the end of the tunnel, not really worried about this season or this draft. It’s all gravy. Depending on how Howell looks early in the season, that will decide whether I’m even rooting for wins as we approach New Regime Day One. I might decide to go full “Crater for Caleb” if we start slow and Howell isn’t looking like a steal. For now, I’m zen. I’m accepting that whatever talent Rivera does or doesn’t add to the roster this weekend will be as a mere feather on the scales when the future arrives. Soon enough. 

 

I get the feeling.

 

My emotions started last night with me feeling jealous that we don't roll like the Eagles.

 

But then it actually started to get me excited because we are about to get rid of our low ceiling, with Dan at the helm -- and he's likely going to be replaced by an owner who according to reporters who cover both the Eagles-76ers is right up there with Lurie as a rock star in the context of building a forward thinking A level FO. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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KDawg

KDawg

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Okay so my top 3 still available at each position:

 

QB: 

Hendon Hooker

Will Levis

Jake Haener

 

RB:

DeWayne McBride

Zach Charbonnet

Devon Achane

 

WR: 

Charlie Jones

Kayshon Boutte

Marvin Mims

Honorable Mention: Jonathan Mingo

 

TE:

Sam LaPorta

Michael Mayer

Darnell Washington

 

OT: 

Dawand Jones

Matt Bergeron

Jaelyn Duncan

Zion Nelson

 

IOL (top 5):

O'Cyrus Torrence

Cody Mauch

Ricky Stromberg

JMS

Jarrett Patterson

 

EDGE:

Keion White

Byron Young (Tenn)

Isiah Foskey

 

DT:

Adetomiwa Adebawore

Zacch Pickens

Siaki Ika

 

LB:

Ivan Pace

Daiyan Henley

Drew Sanders

 

S:

Brian Branch

Jason Taylor II

JL Skinner

 

CB:

Joey Porter, Jr.

Kelee Ringo

Cam Smith

DJ Turner

Julius Brents

Eli Ricks

Tyrique Stevenson

Darius Rush

Garrett Williams

(I kept listing to show how deep this gd position is)

 

Hybrid:

Trenton Simpson

DeMarvion Overshown

 

Return Man:

Jayden Reed

Derius Davis

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Daniel.redskins said:

Haha I have started early.  I'm higher on Steen than most, can't go wrong with Bama.  He blocked the best rushers in the country and did a darn good job. 

Alex Leatherwood wants a word.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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37 minutes ago, Redwards said:

 

 

I'm stoked to hear you report that Harris wants this organization to be like the Eagles in the FO.  That is exactly what we've missed all the years under Dan's ownership.  

 

Big time.  That's Harris' calling card, find who is the best GM in the league -- inventive-forward thinking -- get that dude, pay them whatever it takes and get out of their way. 

 

 

37 minutes ago, Redwards said:

As you've mentioned, this is the problem with Ron and his FO: they predetermine what they are going to do instead of letting the draft come to them.  Yet, in pressers they claim otherwise.  This is simply not what a really good FO that can set a team up to win big does.  

 

 

The only thing I can say in their defense is I do get the vibe that they lose out on some of their FA targets because this is the Siberia of the NFL and they don't love the idea of overpaying FAs to come here -- so it increases the importance of filling needs in the draft.  But overall, I hate the philosophy.   But I do put just about all of that on Dan.  To be a forward thinking FO -- for example trading today's picks for tomorrow like the Eagles do -- you need an owner who is willing to take a step back now to take two steps forward later - and that's not Dan. 

 

Taking a player who might help you more in 2024 than 2023 is again a culture that starts from the top.  Harris was wiling to endure some pain in roster building for 76ers.  Dan can never take that kind of pain -- he embraces aggressive mediocrity.

 

 

37 minutes ago, Redwards said:

I just want Harris to come in here and when the time is appropriate, clean house in the FO and hopefully coaching staff.  Ron is the same as a GM as he is a coach: he's not horrid, but you're not gonna win the SB with him.  And that's all that counts - championships.  (Ron came in and served a limited purpose with culture, but he's no the guy to put you over the top.  He simply isn't a good enough coach, and he's demonstrated that time and time again.)  

 

 

I have only good feelings about what Ron has done here.  Classy guy.  He was the port in the storm through all the craziness.   As far as i am concerned he did the best job here amongst all our coaches under Dan factoring context.

 

But IMO he's not the guy to take this team to the next level.  I think he's capable of being a good coach-good GM.  But I don't see great.  And Harris has the reputation of wanting great.

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clskinsfan

clskinsfan

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Posted (edited)

Zierlein's round 2-3 mock dropped on NFLn:

 

47) Dawand Jones

97) Juice Scruggs

 

I wouldnt hate those picks. Scruggs hasnt gotten much hype on here. But being a PSU fan I have watched his career. He can play. Especially in the run game. And he is a great story after breaking his back in a car wreck and fighting all the way back from it. team captain as well. Which is right up Rons wheelhouse.

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/2023-nfl-draft-day-2-mock-steelers-open-second-round-with-cb-joey-porter-jr-will

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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4 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Zierlein's round 2-3 mock dropped on NFLn:

 

47) Dawand Jones

97) Juice Scruggs

 

I wouldnt hate those picks. Scruggs hasnt gotten much hype on here. But being a PSU fan I have watched his career. He can play. Especially in the run game. And he is a great story after breaking his back in a car wreck and fighting all the way back from it.

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/2023-nfl-draft-day-2-mock-steelers-open-second-round-with-cb-joey-porter-jr-will

 

I talked about Scurggs some on the draft thread.  Smart guy, high floor.  But late third seems rich to me for him.  Feels like a 5th rounder.  In that range i like Forsyth better but both he and Scruggs would be good gets IMO later on the draft.

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