Trump on Trial (Trump indicted for a fourth time in Georgia. Expands his record of most indictments by a former president)

[Califan007 The Constipated]

8 hours ago, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

 

How can his MAGA followers continue to see him as a superman when he begged to be spanked by a stripper with a magazine that had his face on the cover?

 

 

Excuse me...I need to head over to an AI image generator lol...

[Fergasun]

It's ridiculous we need to have a new law.  But if a former President is charged with Federal crimes and still running for Federal elections, the case needs to be fast-tracked by the Court system to occur prior to the general. 

 

I get that summer 2023 is late to indict (and holdovers prevented it).  But, it's enough time to provide justice.  

 

And how odd is it that we need like a million rules for one specific candidate. It should be clear he was, is, and will always be unfit for office.

 

 

[samy316]

2 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

It's ridiculous we need to have a new law.  But if a former President is charged with Federal crimes and still running for Federal elections, the case needs to be fast-tracked by the Court system to occur prior to the general. 

 

I get that summer 2023 is late to indict (and holdovers prevented it).  But, it's enough time to provide justice.  

 

And how odd is it that we need like a million rules for one specific candidate. It should be clear he was, is, and will always be unfit for office.

 

 

 

This is on Merrick Garland 100%.  If he wasn't such a weak, ineffective AG, this investigation & trial would've happened much earlier and had been concluded by now.  By dragging his feet on this, Garland basically gave Trump a get out of jail free card on this case (which is the most serious of all his other trials and the easiest to prove as well).  IF Trump wins in November, Garland might go down as the worst AG of all time, and I don't think I'm exaggerating on that distinction.  By being so cowardly and meek, he essentially could be responsible for Trump netting a 2nd term and avoiding prison time all together.

[Destino]

Fanni…. You had a chance to be great.
 

[Fergasun]

5 minutes ago, samy316 said:

 

This is on Merrick Garland 100%.  If he wasn't such a weak, ineffective AG, this investigation & trial would've happened much earlier and had been concluded by now.  By dragging his feet on this, Garland basically gave Trump a get out of jail free card on this case (which is the most serious of all his other trials and the easiest to prove as well).  IF Trump wins in November, Garland might go down as the worst AG of all time, and I don't think I'm exaggerating on that distinction.  By being so cowardly and meek, he essentially could be responsible for Trump netting a 2nd term and avoiding prison time all together.

I don't agree.  This is on the GOP first. I blame McConnell most of all  Not voting for the post January 6 impeachment effort was the biggest mistake ever for our country.  As much as people want to opine how great Ford pardoning Nixon was (debateable). Senate GOP not impeaching Trump was the opposite.  But, for some reason we don't talk about that.   They voted against it in February.  At this point, they could have said "Eff Donald Trump".  At the very least, he would be banned from running for President again. 

 

We probably would have the criminal documents case, and the New York fraud case. I don't know if the January 6 trial would proceed.  Jack Smith was named Special Counsel after the November 2022 elections. Probably clear that DoJ rules would prevent it 90 days pre-election.  If I recall, there was a period where the consensus was "Donald Trump is done after January 6" and then around 2022 it became clear he was gunning for office again.   You could argue that impeachment would have even foreclosed the Special Counsel.  

 

But remember, the J6 committee ran thru October 2022 and did a lot of the legwork on Trump.  I don't even remember if documents were on anyones minds. 

[Captain Wiggles]

Yeah I don't see how it's Merrick Garlands fault that the Republicans continue to stand by Trump. He also didn't nominate Trump to be their Presidential candidate. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

1 hour ago, samy316 said:

 

This is on Merrick Garland 100%.  If he wasn't such a weak, ineffective AG, this investigation & trial would've happened much earlier and had been concluded by now.  By dragging his feet on this, Garland basically gave Trump a get out of jail free card on this case (which is the most serious of all his other trials and the easiest to prove as well).  IF Trump wins in November, Garland might go down as the worst AG of all time, and I don't think I'm exaggerating on that distinction.  By being so cowardly and meek, he essentially could be responsible for Trump netting a 2nd term and avoiding prison time all together.

 

And the irony will be that if Trump wins in November, Garland will wind up behind bars himself.

[Renegade7]

16 hours ago, tshile said:

So based on that link and the link that cites the original decision, prosecution wanted a July date but the judge decided to wait until now to issue a ruling. They’re keeping pretrial proceedings as scheduled and will decide the date at a later date

 

i realize that doesn’t jibe with the corrupt judge, case suspended indefinitely headline clickbait **** - but when actually reading the article, that’s how it reads to me 🤷‍♂️ 

 

Read the article as well and caught this:

 

Quote

Trump’s Manhattan trial for allegedly falsifying business records related to a hush money payment began in mid-April. His lead attorney in New York, Todd Blanche, is also his lead lawyer in Florida, and the legal team has told Cannon that Trump and Blanche are tied up with the ongoing trial and cannot prepare for the classified documents case.

 

Why is the criminal justice systems problem that someone is getting indicted in multiple jurisdictions simultaneously?

 

We have a military that's supposed to be able to fight two fronts at minimum same time but we can't handle two criminal trials at the same time?

 

Why does it need to be "fair" if he's being accused of breaking laws left and right?  Not that article is saying this, but why should we care about running over his right to due process when he's trying to delay all these trials as much as possible?  Of course they are going to run into the back of each other and overlap.

Edited May 8 by Renegade7

[samy316]

18 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

I don't agree.  This is on the GOP first. I blame McConnell most of all  Not voting for the post January 6 impeachment effort was the biggest mistake ever for our country.  As much as people want to opine how great Ford pardoning Nixon was (debateable). Senate GOP not impeaching Trump was the opposite.  But, for some reason we don't talk about that.   They voted against it in February.  At this point, they could have said "Eff Donald Trump".  At the very least, he would be banned from running for President again. 

 

We probably would have the criminal documents case, and the New York fraud case. I don't know if the January 6 trial would proceed.  Jack Smith was named Special Counsel after the November 2022 elections. Probably clear that DoJ rules would prevent it 90 days pre-election.  If I recall, there was a period where the consensus was "Donald Trump is done after January 6" and then around 2022 it became clear he was gunning for office again.   You could argue that impeachment would have even foreclosed the Special Counsel.  

 

But remember, the J6 committee ran thru October 2022 and did a lot of the legwork on Trump.  I don't even remember if documents were on anyones minds. 

 

The impeachment conviction was NEVER going to happen.  The GOP would never make it impossible for Trump to run again.  The GOP is the GOP, so we already know what they're about and what they stand for.  I specifically blame Garland for sitting on his hands for 2 years, and making it next to impossible to get a fair trial on Trump with conviction before 2024.  Anyone that knows Trump knows that he likes to delay as much as humanly possible.  The DOJ should know by now how he operates, and been better prepared.  We've had a lifetime of evidence that states that he drags and delays everything.  The moment Garland was sworn in in 2021, he should've had a goal to get an investigation going with a target date of indictment by 2022.  The whole point is to not let Trump get to the Repub Primaries by Fall of 2023 as a legitimate candidate being the gigantic national security threat that he is.  The DOJ was too late with the trigger, and we all could be paying the cost of that with a possible Trump win in November.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, samy316 said:

 

This is on Merrick Garland 100%.  If he wasn't such a weak, ineffective AG, this investigation & trial would've happened much earlier and had been concluded by now.  By dragging his feet on this, Garland basically gave Trump a get out of jail free card on this case (which is the most serious of all his other trials and the easiest to prove as well).  IF Trump wins in November, Garland might go down as the worst AG of all time, and I don't think I'm exaggerating on that distinction.  By being so cowardly and meek, he essentially could be responsible for Trump netting a 2nd term and avoiding prison time all together.

 

49 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

I don't agree.  This is on the GOP first. I blame McConnell most of all  Not voting for the post January 6 impeachment effort was the biggest mistake ever for our country.  As much as people want to opine how great Ford pardoning Nixon was (debateable). Senate GOP not impeaching Trump was the opposite.  But, for some reason we don't talk about that.   They voted against it in February.  At this point, they could have said "Eff Donald Trump".  At the very least, he would be banned from running for President again. 

 

We probably would have the criminal documents case, and the New York fraud case. I don't know if the January 6 trial would proceed.  Jack Smith was named Special Counsel after the November 2022 elections. Probably clear that DoJ rules would prevent it 90 days pre-election.  If I recall, there was a period where the consensus was "Donald Trump is done after January 6" and then around 2022 it became clear he was gunning for office again.   You could argue that impeachment would have even foreclosed the Special Counsel.  

 

But remember, the J6 committee ran thru October 2022 and did a lot of the legwork on Trump.  I don't even remember if documents were on anyones minds. 

 

42 minutes ago, Captain Wiggles said:

Yeah I don't see how it's Merrick Garlands fault that the Republicans continue to stand by Trump. He also didn't nominate Trump to be their Presidential candidate. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

 

If assigning "blame"...

 

- Blame Biden for selecting Garland as his AG. He already knew that whoever he picked would have going after Trump as #1 on his to-do list...and Garland has a judge's temperment, not a prosecutor's aggressive mindset.

 

- Blame the Supreme Court for slow-walking the decision on total presidential immunity, which causes his J6 trial to be pushed back most likely past election day (that is, if they don't further **** things up and declare presidents do indeed have total immunity for all acts during their terms no matter what).

 

- Blame McConnell for blocking the Obama administration from picking a SC justice--which would have been Garland--in an election year, yet allowing Trump to pick a SC justice in the exact same scenario in order to further stack the bench. That right there would have lead to a more even 5-4 split, removed Garland as a possible AG under Biden, and given us a more aggressive AG to handle the J6 and documents cases.

 

- Blame Republican senators for not voting to convict Trump after his impeachment. Had they done so, nobody would be freaking out about the length of time it takes to prosecute the turd.

 

- Blame Republican voters who no longer give one single flying **** about this country in any way, and only care about their side winning.

 

- Blame Democratic voters who--bizarrely--think Biden's age is a billion times worse than all the vile **** Trump has done and is now promising he will do if elected again...seriously, this race shouldn't in any way be close.

 

I'm in no way very knowledgeable on legal matters or procedures, but my rule of thumb (or one of them) is if your priority is to get a case to trial asap, the more likely it is you'll lose that case. We're supposed to have safeguards in place to guarantee someone who has done all the **** Trump has done never makes it back into office, but damn if every single safeguard so far has failed us. If all the others fail we still have the huge one, which is using our voting power to make sure he's not elected.

 

Edited May 8 by Califan007 The Constipated

[Fergasun]

I am still not convinced a newly-elected President can stop a criminal case like this, in the middle of the criminal process.  I think the best he can do is hit the pause button. But, even that is debatable.  I have not doubt multiple issues will end up with SCOTUS and I know how they will rule. It's going to be embarrassing.  

 

There are serious rule of law issues with that logic. I can see the Special Counsel going for a Court injunction to prevent that from happening.  Maybe I am wrong and Trump can instruct the DoJ to give up the cases under "prosecutorial discretion".  But, I am pretty sure the Special Counsel acts independently of DoJ.  This is why we have a Special Counsel.  He can't be removed for "he is going after the newly elected President".  I just read the statue on how a Special Counsel gets removed.    

 

This is another Constitutional crises brewing.  I think this is why the MAGA people are trying to invalidate Jack Smith's appointment.   

[samy316]

16 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

I am still not convinced a newly-elected President can stop a criminal case like this, in the middle of the criminal process.  I think the best he can do is hit the pause button. But, even that is debatable.  I have not doubt multiple issues will end up with SCOTUS and I know how they will rule. It's going to be embarrassing.  

 

There are serious rule of law issues with that logic. I can see the Special Counsel going for a Court injunction to prevent that from happening.  Maybe I am wrong and Trump can instruct the DoJ to give up the cases under "prosecutorial discretion".  But, I am pretty sure the Special Counsel acts independently of DoJ.  This is why we have a Special Counsel.  He can't be removed for "he is going after the newly elected President".  I just read the statue on how a Special Counsel gets removed.    

 

This is another Constitutional crises brewing.  I think this is why the MAGA people are trying to invalidate Jack Smith's appointment.   

 

The Stolen Doc Trial is federal (along with the Jan 6 case).  If Trump's elected, all he has to do when appointed is shut down the investigation, pardon himself and that's that.  There's nothing the judicial system can do to him if he's elected.  That won't be the case for the state cases against him, but that won't matter if he' elected to office.  The GA case will also face significant delays as of this morning's report, so Trump might skate by completely in time for the election.

[tshile]

46 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Why is the criminal justice systems problem that someone is getting indicted in multiple jurisdictions simultaneously?

Oh I agree. I don’t really know how any of that works. Or if that’s a common practice to afford the accused leeway like that. 
 

Personally I would have thought an individual judge in a different jurisdiction wouldn’t care what you have going on elsewhere and would say that’s your problem to figure out. 
 

🤷‍♂️ 

[Simmsy]

I blame this on Garland. He waited so that it wouldn't seem political, but now its happening in an election year, so its political. Ultimately, we know what the GOP is and how they fight, I blame the Dems for playing by a different set of rules and expecting to win against cheaters. Now, I'm not saying storm the Capital, but Dems need to fight and stop trying for moral victories. Once again, Dems want to appear as the good guys and they end up shooting themselves in the foot. Who gives a **** if some people will get mad, Trump tried the overthrow the government, he needs to be dealt with. Why do they care more about the GOP being happy than their own constituents?

 

Bill Maher pointed out something that I never knew until recently: no Democrat has headed the FBI and no special counsel has been a Democrat in over 50 years. We let them investigate themselves and call it fair, we let them investigate us, corrupt it and call it fair. The real culprit is the Dem party for acting like a bunch of wusses.

Edited May 8 by Simmsy

[Destino]

Slow walking this certainly helped Trumps delay tactics. None of this is hindsight, everyone knew before the charges that Trump would attempt this. The fact that they failed to account for it is a mistake they must own. 

[tshile]

My understanding of federal cases is that they take forever but they usually nail you on what they have. 
 

I work with some supposedly good litigators - the only time I hear, or see on their face, or otherwise sense concern about something is when they’re up against the DOJ. Say what you want - but based on my third-hand experience growing up around law enforcement and knowing/working with various lawyers over my adult life - the DOJ scares everyone and it’s a reputation they’ve earned. 
 

That’s generally how I view people (especially people that don’t work with or against the DOJ as a function of their job) criticizing them about how long they take. 🤷‍♂️ 

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

31 minutes ago, Destino said:

Slow walking this certainly helped Trumps delay tactics. None of this is hindsight, everyone knew before the charges that Trump would attempt this. The fact that they failed to account for it is a mistake they must own. 

 

I think a lot of our politicians missed the boat on what Trump would do, because they think rationally and don't think like a 'chaos agent' like Trump. The Dems waited too long to act and didn't anticipate Trump's delaying tactics (which they should have, due to his past with Roy Cohn) and the moderate GOPers again thought Trump was stupid and could be controlled by their own people.

[Renegade7]

22 minutes ago, tshile said:

My understanding of federal cases is that they take forever but they usually nail you on what they have. 
 

I work with some supposedly good litigators - the only time I hear, or see on their face, or otherwise sense concern about something is when they’re up against the DOJ. Say what you want - but based on my third-hand experience growing up around law enforcement and knowing/working with various lawyers over my adult life - the DOJ scares everyone and it’s a reputation they’ve earned. 
 

That’s generally how I view people (especially people that don’t work with or against the DOJ as a function of their job) criticizing them about how long they take. 🤷‍♂️ 

 

Agreed, that's my understanding as well, even from limited experience where I'm at.

 

State and local level may f it up trying to do too much, anyone can correct me but this was my takeaway from the Trayvon Martin murder trial.

 

Feds typically don't play that ****.

 

That's why what @Destino pointed out that everyone knew the delay plan going into this is so frustrating to watch work in real time.

 

The only way to dodge this many raindrops is to delay these trials until after the election, get elected, then get rid of the thundercloud over his head all together.

 

Having said that, back to your point what gives me hope is if Biden wins this November Trump can't delay all these trials forever.

 

Hurry up and wait, make sure you vote.

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 hour ago, tshile said:

My understanding of federal cases is that they take forever but they usually nail you on what they have. 
 

 

 

I've posted a few times a good breakdown from that MuellerSheWrote account. She does a good job, with actual facts and dates, at explaining the hold ups. 

 

People still blaming Garland aren't living in the real world, they're just yelling at clouds. At best, you can hit Garland for a failure of leadership in the general sense that the boss is responsible for the results. Except if you're pissed at him, you have to be equally pissed at Biden. And that messes with your sense of political team sports.

 

*The proverbial "you".

[Fergasun]

Cannon killed the trial post election when she did the special master stuff and it had to go to the 11th Circuit.  We just didn't realize it. 

 

I personally think she is in way over her head on this. Unfortunately, the Court should have stepped in and said "Let's not assign one of the most important cases in American history to a brand new district court judge."  If it was really some "random draw of straws", that seems really stupid and a case where a judge says, "yeah let's roll the dice again".  So that's really a strike against the Court again.

 

[tshile]

3 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

State and local level may f it up trying to do too much

There’s also a weird thing with the states AG offices where there is a clear path of potential to wind up in politics. 
 

that’s why we see these people look like they’re auditioning for a movie when they’re running a serious case. They are looking at that potential. 
 

obviously there’s other reasons for the discrepancy in results but that seems unique to the state AG offices (I may be totally wrong - working off memory of generally observing things over the decades)

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

This part lol...

 

 

Trump's lawyer Necheles: At the viewing parties, you are treated like a hero? They say, you are saving America?

 

Stormy Daniels: That's in strip clubs. The viewing parties are polarizing.

 

Necheles: You said you'll be instrumental in putting President Trump in jail?

 

Stormy Daniels: Show me where I said instrumental.

 

Necheles: Here's your tweet, "Making me the best person to flush the orange turd down."

 

Daniels: It doesn't say Trump, just orange turd. If you want to interpret it that way...

[Larry]

11 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

This part lol...

 

 

Trump's lawyer Necheles: At the viewing parties, you are treated like a hero? They say, you are saving America?

 

Stormy Daniels: That's in strip clubs. The viewing parties are polarizing.

 

Necheles: You said you'll be instrumental in putting President Trump in jail?

 

Stormy Daniels: Show me where I said instrumental.

 

Necheles: Here's your tweet, "Making me the best person to flush the orange turd down."

 

Daniels: It doesn't say Trump, just orange turd. If you want to interpret it that way...

 

Gotta say.  If I'm on that jury?  Those answers aren't making me believe her a lot more.  

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

 

More:

 

Trump's lawyer Necheles: You've been in over 200 sex films?

Stormy Daniels: Including comps.

Necheles: What?

Daniels: Compilations.

Necheles: So you have experience in making up fake stories about sex?

Daniels: The sex is real. That's why it's not a B movie.

Necheles: Now you have a story about having sex with President Trump, right?

Stormy Daniels: If I was making it up it would have been a lot better.

Necheles: You make money working in the sex clubs-

Daniels: I work in strip clubs, big difference.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Gotta say.  If I'm on that jury?  Those answers aren't making me believe her a lot more.  

 

 

Hopefully the jury heard far more than what little I posted up there lol...

Edited May 9 by Califan007 The Constipated

[PleaseBlitz]

22 hours ago, samy316 said:

 

The Stolen Doc Trial is federal (along with the Jan 6 case).  If Trump's elected, all he has to do when appointed is shut down the investigation, pardon himself and that's that.  There's nothing the judicial system can do to him if he's elected.  That won't be the case for the state cases against him, but that won't matter if he' elected to office.  The GA case will also face significant delays as of this morning's report, so Trump might skate by completely in time for the election.

 

It is not clear that a President can pardon himself.  It's never been attempted before, and permitting it would make the President effectively above the law if they can engage in criminal acts and just pardon themselves.