AP: 2 kidnapped Americans found dead in Mexico, 2 others alive

[Cooked Crack]

Quote

Two U.S. citizens missing since their violent abduction last week in the northern Mexican border city of Matamoros have been found dead and two others are alive, the state’s governor said Tuesday. 

 

Tamaulipas Gov. Américo Villarreal said that one of the surviving U.S. citizens was wounded and the other was not. 

 

The FBI had reported Sunday that it was searching with Mexican authorities for the missing Americans, who had been kidnapped Friday. A relative of one of them said Monday that they had traveled together from South Carolina so one of them could get a tummy tuck from a Matamoros doctor. 

 

Shortly after entering Mexico Friday they were caught in the crossfire of rival cartel groups. A video showed them being loaded into the back of a pickup truck by gunmen.

Quote

Mexican officials said a Mexican woman also had died in Fridays’ crossfire. 

 

The incident illustrates the terror that has prevailed for years in Matamoros, a city dominated by factions of the powerful Gulf drug cartel who often fight among themselves. Amid the violence, thousands of Mexicans have disappeared in Tamaulipas state alone.

https://apnews.com/article/mexico-kidnapped-americans-killed-eaed854f1b16cd61fb79edcb5b87cfe6?

 

 

[ixcuincle]

I saw this on the news yesterday it's sad. The news said they might have kidnapped the wrong people 

[abdcskins]

Mexico is a super dangerous place to visit, particularly the border towns. Sad how the cartels have essentially taken over the entire country. Violence is all too common, the drug trade is rampant.

 

I have been to some really nice places in Mexico though, I don't want to make it sound like a war zone. But you gotta be smart and know where to go. This seems like a case of mistaken identity. Going down there for cosmetic surgery does not seem like the smartest choice. Really sad RIP to the victims. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Trying to imagine the life path that would lead someone to leave Carolina and travel to a hard-scrabble border town to save a few bucks on a “tummy tuck”.

 

Anyway, sad story.  RIP.

[ixcuincle]

22 minutes ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

Trying to imagine the life path that would lead someone to leave Carolina and travel to a hard-scrabble border town to save a few bucks on a “tummy tuck”.

 

Anyway, sad story.  RIP.

You underestimate how bad the American Healthcare system is 

 

These weren't the only people to go to Mexico for drugs people cross over into Canada and Mexico constantly because big pharma is pricing common Americans out 

[TradeTheBeal!]

7 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

You underestimate how bad the American Healthcare system is 

 

These weren't the only people to go to Mexico for drugs people cross over into Canada and Mexico constantly because big pharma is pricing common Americans out 

Is a “tummy tuck” not elective plastic surgery?

[purbeast]

23 minutes ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

Is a “tummy tuck” not elective plastic surgery?

Yes. 

 

It ain't being covered under insurance anyways.

[Destino]

They murder Mexicans too.  This is from January of this year, it just didn’t get as much press
 

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/remains-us-citizen-zacatecas/

Quote

A dual Mexico-United States citizen has been formally identified as one of four people whose remains were found in a rural area of Zacatecas last week, near the Jalisco border.

 

The Zacatecas Attorney General’s Office (FGJEZ) confirmed Tuesday that the remains of José Melesio Gutiérrez Padilla were among those found in Tepetongo, a municipality in southwestern Zacatecas that borders Jalisco.

 

Gutiérrez, a 36-year-old architect who lived in Ohio but was originally from León, Guanajuato, disappeared on Dec. 25 along with his fiancée Daniela Márquez Pichardo, her sister Viviana Márquez Pichardo and Irma Paola Vargas Montoya, a cousin of the two women. The remains of the three women were found along with those of Gutiérrez.

when people tell you to avoid certain areas in Mexico, take it seriously.  The government is not entirely in control of places with a lot cartel activity and those people are so violent they make horror movie writers seem tame by comparison.  They post videos of themselves wearing the faces of their victims.  I mean this literally.  

[TheGreatBuzz]

We really need to send in the Marines.

[Larry]

2 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

We really need to send in the Marines.

 

Been thinking for some time.  It sure feels to me like we ought to be able to just wipe out huge chunks of those cartels.  And I would sure think that a good chunk of Mexico would appreciate the help.  Surely they're sick of the assholes, too.  

 

We seem to have managed to get rid of ISIS, by having the Green Berets train the Kurds how to fight them.  Maybe something like that would work in Mexico?  Or is their military too penetrated?  

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Larry

[Bang]

9 hours ago, Larry said:

 

Been thinking for some time.  It sure feels to me like we ought to be able to just wipe out huge chunks of those cartels.  And I would sure think that a good chunk of Mexico would appreciate the help.  Surely they're sick of the assholes, too.  

 

We seem to have managed to get rid of ISIS, by having the Green Berets train the Kurds how to fight them.  Maybe something like that would work in Mexico?  Or is their military too penetrated?  

 

ISIS are not exporting products to us that are in high demand.
Send the Marines, and none of that changes. If Marines are successful in borderland Mexico and eradicate these cartels, then the problem just shifts to somewhere else and we get new cartels.
If people are going to willingly make monumentally stupid decisions like going into one of the world's most violent war zones to get a tummy tuck, you can't protect them. We can be as outraged as we want, but these people put themselves into an incredibly dangerous situation, and the obvious happened.
 

Hate to sound heartless, but it is hard to work up sympathy. 

 

~Bang

[ixcuincle]

it's a risky proposition for sure to go to other countries for elective surgery but no american should be kidnapped like that

 

that said those mexican towns unsafe

[The 12th Commandment]

No person of any nationality should be kidnapped.  As an American you lose that self assigned exceptionality when you travel abroad.

 

And the fact is, when the state department tells you not to go somewhere, you should listen.  There are numerous other locales in Mexico that are safer.  Just would have been more of a road trip.  

Edited March 8, 2023 by The 12th Commandment

[tshile]

If we made the drugs ourselves the cartels would lose their income instantly. 
 

and street gangs would be hit hard too

 

and maybe people wouldn’t overdose from

using bunk drugs or drugs with an inconsistent concentration 

 

the drug war is stupid and so are all the people that haven’t figured that out yet. 

Edited March 8, 2023 by tshile

[TheGreatBuzz]

4 hours ago, Bang said:

ISIS are not exporting products to us that are in high demand.
Send the Marines, and none of that changes. If Marines are successful in borderland Mexico and eradicate these cartels, then the problem just shifts to somewhere else and we get new cartels.
If people are going to willingly make monumentally stupid decisions like going into one of the world's most violent war zones to get a tummy tuck, you can't protect them. We can be as outraged as we want, but these people put themselves into an incredibly dangerous situation, and the obvious happened.
 

Hate to sound heartless, but it is hard to work up sympathy. 

 

~Bang

 

We wouldn't stop it.  But we can send a very clear message that there are lines they can't cross.  They touch Americans and their cartel ceases to exist is a good place to start.

[bearrock]

"Civis Americanus Sum" ought to mean something.

[The 12th Commandment]

9 minutes ago, bearrock said:

"Civis Americanus Sum" ought to mean something.

To the cartels?  I think it would mean laugh maybe.  At best.

 

Certainly would help you if you got into any trouble in a first world country.  But here we have that government you expect to exert influence on your behalf telling you straight up, don't go there.

[tshile]

The state departments travel advisory on Mexico is such bull****. 
 

best I can tell, with only putting in a few minutes, they’re the only one marked “other” for the level of travel advisory. Open it up and it has a green heading which I believe is used for level 1 travel advisories - use normal precautions. 
 

but what comes after that is a long list of areas you shouldn’t travel to inside of Mexico because of kidnapping and crime. And a long write up about how dangerous it is and why. No traveling alone, or at night, don’t display wealth, don’t count on local police anywhere and US response is limited. 
 

it’s such political bull****. If that was for a country on any other continent it would be a level 4 do not travel category. They’d be dubbed a narco state. 
 

but because it’s Mexico and someone important doesn’t want to hurt the feelings of the faux government of Mexico, it’s labeled as Other with a green heading and then a write up similar to a level 3/4 advisory. 
 

 

It’s one I’m not going to fault someone for not understanding the advisory. The state department is clearly being untruthful in its presentation of the danger, with enough write up to try to cover their ass if ever called on it. 

[Fergasun]

How many Americans get killed on a regular basis in Mexico?  Do people in this thread want us to take them over?  There are a couple of countries across the globe who may raise an eyebrow over that course of action. 

 

Statistically, you are less likely to get murdered in Mexico as an American than you are to get murdered as an American in America (even though the overall murder rate is higher).  

 

This people were targetted because they were not white Americans.  Think about that.  It's sad that the American health care and wealth system sucks that poor people have to go to Mexico for health services (yes, even elective).  The families are all devastated, but I am sure they are going to be pissed and blaming the victims for this is garbage.   

 

So many people go to Mexico for health care... that when folks get killed and kidnapped it is news. 

[The 12th Commandment]

There are a number of places I go to regularly and feel safe in Mexico.  Mostly tourist areas where the condos are owned by and are money laundering mechanisms for the cartel. Safest place you could ever be.   Also some small towns on the border. 

 

I live 40 miles from, and nearly grew up in as much time as I spent there back in the day, Juarez and certainly wouldn't go there. 

 

Dubbing them a narco state?  What does that make us and how is it so much better?  They're a part of the supply chain that only exists to satisfy our rampant demand. 

 

They don't have school shootings.  Yeah, a lot of innocents get caught up in the drug related violence.  But at least you can understand the motivation behind that evil.  

 

Mexico has HUGE problems but the majority of the country is far away from being as bad as all that. Some areas, the ones State tells you not to go to, are.  

Edited March 8, 2023 by The 12th Commandment

[tshile]

Well, I guess we can start with the definition of a narco state

Quote

Narco-state (also narco-capitalism or narco-economy^[a]) is a political and economic term applied to countries where all legitimate institutions become penetrated by the power and wealth of the illegal drug trade

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narco-state
 

so, that checks out. What areas of government they don’t have actual control over, are so scared and intimidated by them they clearly have a strong influence 

 

And this idea that the touristy areas are safe cause the cartels own them and kidnapping tourists from those areas for bad business isn’t the compelling argument you seem to think it is 😂 

 

how is here so much better? 😂 that’s a good joke. 

[Dan T.]

There is video of the kidnapping. It is harrowing. Perpetrators loading two live victims and two dead or dying victims onto the bed of a pickup truck in the middle of a busy city street. 

[purbeast]

4 hours ago, tshile said:

The state departments travel advisory on Mexico is such bull****. 
 

best I can tell, with only putting in a few minutes, they’re the only one marked “other” for the level of travel advisory. Open it up and it has a green heading which I believe is used for level 1 travel advisories - use normal precautions. 
 

but what comes after that is a long list of areas you shouldn’t travel to inside of Mexico because of kidnapping and crime. And a long write up about how dangerous it is and why. No traveling alone, or at night, don’t display wealth, don’t count on local police anywhere and US response is limited. 
 

it’s such political bull****. If that was for a country on any other continent it would be a level 4 do not travel category. They’d be dubbed a narco state. 
 

but because it’s Mexico and someone important doesn’t want to hurt the feelings of the faux government of Mexico, it’s labeled as Other with a green heading and then a write up similar to a level 3/4 advisory. 
 

 

It’s one I’m not going to fault someone for not understanding the advisory. The state department is clearly being untruthful in its presentation of the danger, with enough write up to try to cover their ass if ever called on it. 

I mean what you are saying is basically like telling people to not go to the San Diego because slums of Baltimore of Chicago exist and they aren't safe to go to.

 

Mexico is huge and there are plenty of places that are safe and/or touristy to go to.

 

Or how about other countries telling their residents USA is a "level 4" because of all the gun violence and mass shootings over here?  We are known as a "****hole" country to many foreigners due to the guns over here.

Edited March 8, 2023 by purbeast

[TradeTheBeal!]

Yeah, Mexico is roughly twice as large as Texas and California combined…almost 2M square km.  
 

Also wanna add that Mexico is now and basically always has been a top 10 tourist destination on the planet.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings
 

Anyhoo…no shortage of moronic takes out there.  Get in where you fit in.

 

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by TradeTheBeal!

[tshile]

32 minutes ago, purbeast said:

I mean what you are saying is basically like telling people to not go to the San Diego because slums of Baltimore of Chicago exist and they aren't safe to go to.

 

Mexico is huge and there are plenty of places that are safe and/or touristy to go to.

 

Or how about other countries telling their residents USA is a "level 4" because of all the gun violence and mass shootings over here?  We are known as a "****hole" country to many foreigners due to the guns over here.

Did you read the travel advisory before you came up with your analogy?