method man Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Just now, Warhead36 said: Wagner can still play. He'd be a perfect vet leader but why would he come here when he can go to a contender? I doubt we'll overpay. Quinn and KNJ are the only things that would give us a fighting chance. The more likely option is the Rams who he was just with. They have the cap room too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said: Yeah I wouldn't rule it out even at his age, if he can be had cheap. One thing Sheehan said who has a good pipeline to ownership. The feeling in the building is they can win fast. I've seen some posts here about 3 year rebuilds and 5 years, etc, but apparently that's not what the thoughts are in that building. We had the #3 ranked defense 2 seasons ago. The only difference with this defense and that one is no Montez Sweat. You can get your Montez Sweat type back in FA. From ‘22 to opening day ‘23, the only real changes were losing coach Harris and Bobby McCain, both of which could have attributed to our communication issues in the secondary. Given how poorly our D was playing up until Sweat/Young were traded, sure seems like the schematic changes Del Rio made must of had a pretty big negative impact. To your point though, Sweat was the only major personnel loss overall as of now. Of course, now we have Fuller, Curl, our rotational DEs, and Barton/Mayo as FAs. I’m looking at the defensive personnel like this: High end guys that can benefit from a better supporting cast (and scheme) - Payne/Allen Guys that have shown a lot of quality play that can hopefully take a significant step forward via improved coaching/scheme/supporting cast - Davis/Forrest/Martin. Guys that have shown relatively little, but have some quality traits and/or pedigree that can hopefully take a huge step forward (w/ improved coaching/scheme/supporting cast) - St Juste/Forbes/Butler/Mathis/Ridgeway/Henry/Jones. That’s a lot of hoping, lol. Looks to me like we need a minimum of 1 quality player added to every position group (except DT) - FS, corner, ILB and DE. Bare minimum for me would be a good (to very good) DE and ILB addition, and a (at the least) decent FS and corner. With that said, it looks like there’s a big opportunity for coaching (including a clarity of scheme) to lift the play of a lot of these guys, especially given how young the group is overall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Just now, skinny21 said: From ‘22 to opening day ‘23, the only real changes were losing coach Harris and Bobby McCain, both of which could have attributed to our communication issues in the secondary. Given how poorly our D was playing up until Sweat/Young were traded, sure seems like the schematic changes Del Rio made must of had a pretty big negative impact. To your point though, Sweat was the only major personnel loss overall as of now. Of course, now we have Fuller, Curl, our rotational DEs, and Barton/Mayo as FAs. I’m looking at the defensive personnel like this: High end guys that can benefit from a better supporting cast (and scheme) - Payne/Allen Guys that have shown a lot of quality play that can hopefully take a significant step forward via improved coaching/scheme/supporting cast - Davis/Forrest/Martin. Guys that have shown relatively little, but have some quality traits and/or pedigree that can hopefully take a huge step forward (w/ improved coaching/scheme/supporting cast) - St Juste/Forbes/Butler/Mathis/Ridgeway/Henry/Jones. That’s a lot of hoping, lol. Looks to me like we need a minimum of 1 quality player added to every position group (except DT) - FS, corner, ILB and DE. Bare minimum for me would be a good (to very good) DE and ILB addition, and a (at the least) decent FS and corner. With that said, it looks like there’s a big opportunity for coaching (including a clarity of scheme) to lift the play of a lot of these guys, especially given how young the group is overall. I think Holcomb to Barton was a meaningful enough downgrade too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: Wagner can still play. He'd be a perfect vet leader but why would he come here when he can go to a contender? I doubt we'll overpay. I sure wouldn’t scoff at adding Wagner, but I’d prefer a (proven) younger guy. Just now, method man said: I think Holcomb to Barton was a meaningful enough downgrade too Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 minute ago, skinny21 said: I sure wouldn’t scoff at adding Wagner, but I’d prefer a (proven) younger guy. Best path is Wagner + drafting a guy or two in Day 3 and letting them develop for a year 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 minute ago, method man said: Best path is Wagner + drafting a guy or two in Day 3 and letting them develop for a year You mean Wagner on a 1 year deal or thereabouts? I’d definitely be on board for that… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 He's still a good player and is going to get more than 1 year from a contender. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Just now, skinny21 said: You mean Wagner on a 1 year deal or thereabouts? I’d definitely be on board for that… Yep. Very best he is getting is a 2 year deal. He may get what is on paper a 3 year deal but is realistically a 1-2 year deal for cap purposes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Another name to throw into the mix is Demario Davis. The Saints are $80M over the cap and will need to go through their annual exercise of restructuring contracts. Of their expensive players, Davis is one of the few they save money on by moving on from. More likely though he just restructures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Wagner is basically another coach on the field and knows how to get the front and back of the defenses connected. He instantly transforms our D and he's a big splashy name signing. Checks every box. Give him his last big contract and let him come run the defense. He probably has 3 years left in him and he can groom our future LBers. It's a home run no brainer signing. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 hour ago, method man said: I think Holcomb to Barton was a meaningful enough downgrade too It's a good point. Quan Martin is looking like a good addition as to 2023 versus the 2022 defense. 43 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: Wagner is basically another coach on the field and knows how to get the front and back of the defenses connected. He instantly transforms our D and he's a big splashy name signing. Checks every box. Give him his last big contract and let him come run the defense. He probably has 3 years left in him and he can groom our future LBers. It's a home run no brainer signing. London Fletcher later in his career was still big time for this team. Be a similar story potentially. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhd24 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 hour ago, method man said: I think Holcomb to Barton was a meaningful enough downgrade too Yeah, but I'd argue that when Holcombe went down in 2022, the run defense improved dramatically with...gulp...Bostic in. Holcombe was a terrible run defender here. I'm glad we didn't resign him. Barton was trash to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: It's a good point. Quan Martin is looking like a good addition as to 2023 versus the 2022 defense. London Fletcher later in his career was still big time for this team. Be a similar story potentially. He can put the cherry on top of his HoF career with what we're about to build. I'm sure AP saw the value a vet LBer like Warner. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 8 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: He can put the cherry on top of his HoF career with what we're about to build. I'm sure AP saw the value a vet LBer like Warner. We haven't had an elite processor at LB arguably since London Fletcher and its clealy a big deal. I mentioned this before but I recall one game in particular that I was at where I had a good view of the defense on a number of plays and Fletcher was fun to watch. He was redirecting players left and right based on the formations he saw. I recall Pierce being a big loss when he went to NY. And I recall back to back plays when this team was on the goal line, a TD would win the game and Pierce diagnosed the defense alas perfectly and stopped Portis. He knew exactly what the play was. I recall Strahan later saying that Pierce really helped his game because he knew what was coming. 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: We haven't had an elite processor at LB arguably since London Fletcher and its clealy a big deal. I mentioned this before but I recall one game in particular that I was at where I had a good view of the defense on a number of plays and Fletcher was fun to watch. He was redirecting players left and right based on the formations he saw. I recall Pierce being a big loss when he went to NY. And I recall back to back plays when this team was on the goal line, a TD would win the game and Pierce diagnosed the defense alas perfectly and stopped Portis. He knew exactly what the play was. I recall Strahan later saying that Pierce really helped his game because he knew what was coming. Wagner and Winfield Jr are my two biggest FA gets as of now and I really think it's possible. They said it all starts in the middle and if I have to watch Butler play center field one more time, I'll loose it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 (edited) I wonder if Peters could get him with one of our 2nd round picks given the obvious connection he has with the 9ers. In the long run, a 25-year old bonafide #1 WR that our young QB can grow with may represent greater value to us than any WR or OL we draft with that pick. His new contract would be the main issue, but I'd much rather be paying a young, proven commodity in Aiyuk over some of the other WR FA names being tossed around (even after giving up a high 2nd round pick). Edited February 19 by HTTRDynasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 No trading away picks. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: We haven't had an elite processor at LB arguably since London Fletcher and its clealy a big deal. I mentioned this before but I recall one game in particular that I was at where I had a good view of the defense on a number of plays and Fletcher was fun to watch. He was redirecting players left and right based on the formations he saw. I recall Pierce being a big loss when he went to NY. And I recall back to back plays when this team was on the goal line, a TD would win the game and Pierce diagnosed the defense alas perfectly and stopped Portis. He knew exactly what the play was. I recall Strahan later saying that Pierce really helped his game because he knew what was coming. Enjoy this video see how he lit'up Foles ! Edited February 19 by FrFan 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselmheifer Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said: Wagner and Winfield Jr are my two biggest FA gets as of now and I really think it's possible. They said it all starts in the middle and if I have to watch Butler play center field one more time, I'll loose it. I thought Winfield was likely to get franchised? I think that if we go cash heavy and are creative with the cap, we could afford Bobby Wagner, Danielle Hunter, Kurl or Winfield, a CB, Hunter, Fant, and Onwenwu or Brown. Imagine how transformative that would be for this team when you add in the draft picks. Being aggressive like that would also really free us up to let the draft flow to us, rather than having weigh positional need so heavily. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins 2021 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 25 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said: I thought Winfield was likely to get franchised? I think that if we go cash heavy and are creative with the cap, we could afford Bobby Wagner, Danielle Hunter, Kurl or Winfield, a CB, Hunter, Fant, and Onwenwu or Brown. Imagine how transformative that would be for this team when you add in the draft picks. Being aggressive like that would also really free us up to let the draft flow to us, rather than having weigh positional need so heavily. I did read Winfield is getting franchise also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markmills67 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 I an just throwing this thought out there, I'm not sure about Mathis and Ridgeway as backups but what about bringing in Calais Campbell on a 1 year deal. I know I know he's 38 but he had a better season than both Allen and Payne last year. Don't all scream at me at once I'm just putting it out there. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWinzit Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 4 hours ago, method man said: I think Holcomb to Barton was a meaningful enough downgrade too It definitely was, the defensive players felt Holcomb had really stepped up as a leader. 2 hours ago, mhd24 said: Barton was trash to be true. Yes, he was a huge disappointment. Really thought we could trust the staff to find a good fit for the LB hope we had...oh how naive I was!!! .....same with adding Wylie and Gates...YUCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 3 hours ago, markmills67 said: I an just throwing this thought out there, I'm not sure about Mathis and Ridgeway as backups but what about bringing in Calais Campbell on a 1 year deal. I know I know he's 38 but he had a better season than both Allen and Payne last year. Don't all scream at me at once I'm just putting it out there. HTTR Not at all and Campbell makes sense on a 1 year deal if we go the 3-4 route. Campbell is a guy Allen will stfu and look up to 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselmheifer Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 I wonder how much new coaching can fix our secondary. Regardless, they can’t just assume that Forbes is going to turn it around. The have to plan on adding corners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Were not getting quality vets on cheap 1 year deals. They can get that from contenders. Were better off targeting guys like Ronald Darby in 2020 and Deandre Carter and Jd Mckissic in 2021. Unheralded guys thatll take a 1 year deal with anyone to try to make more in 2025. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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