The Official 2023 ES Free Agency Thread... available until Free Agency 2024 begins

[Voice_of_Reason]

21 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Wouldn't mind Williams but I'd like to give Stromberg a shot at the starting C job.

He’s on IR.  I don’t remember why or if he could return this year.  
 

If he can he needs to be inserted into the OL and given reps immediately. 

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am not breaking the bank for Curl.  He has one pick in his career.   He's a good player.  But if his dad is right and he's demanding top 5 safety money, I am not giving that to him, if another team offers that.

Agreed.  FO needs to be smart.  We might get a comp pick for him but then again, we are going to be aggressive in FA ourselves so maybe nothing.  Have to wait and see.   

[JamesMadisonSkins]

19 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Agreed.  FO needs to be smart.  We might get a comp pick for him but then again, we are going to be aggressive in FA ourselves so maybe nothing.  Have to wait and see.   

 

Every year there are bargain safeties out there to be had.

 

1. New FO means no ties to previously drafted players

2. We do have to spend money somewhere. Maybe new FO values Curl, maybe they don't. If we choose to re-sign him, whatever. We have the $$ to spend, gotta spend it somewhere.

3. With that said, I feel like safety is a position you can find value in during the FA cycle or the draft. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Lot of people are drawing parallels between our 2024 off-season and the Bears 2023 off-season. Bears had the #1 pick, we will not. But still, they had a boatload of picks, a young QB to build around, and $90m in cap space. Here is how their FA went:

 

1. LB Tremaine Edmunds: 4 years, $72m ($18m APY)

2. G Nate Davis: 3 years, $30m ($10m APY)

3. LB TJ Edwards: 3 years, $20m ($7m APY)

4. DE Demarcus Walker: 3 years, $21m ($7m APY)

*Traded for WR DJ Moore - $21.2m cap hit

 

D'onta Foreman, Robert Tonyan, Andrew Billings, PJ Walker, Nathan Peterman, Travis Homer were all brought in on 1-year deals. 

 

The Bears have approx. $5m in cap space right now. They also have $82m projected heading into this off-season. Seems to me that their cap space went fairly quickly. They essentially had 2 premier signings, and 3 mid-tier signings. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Conn]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Lot of people are drawing parallels between our 2024 off-season and the Bears 2023 off-season. Bears had the #1 pick, we will not. But still, they had a boatload of picks, a young QB to build around, and $90m in cap space. Here is how their FA went:

 

1. LB Tremaine Edmunds: 4 years, $72m ($18m APY)

2. G Nate Davis: 3 years, $30m ($10m APY)

3. LB TJ Edwards: 3 years, $20m ($7m APY)

4. DE Demarcus Walker: 3 years, $21m ($7m APY)

*Traded for WR DJ Moore - $21.2m cap hit

 

D'onta Foreman, Robert Tonyan, Andrew Billings, PJ Walker, Nathan Peterman, Travis Homer were all brought in on 1-year deals. 

 

The Bears have approx. $5m in cap space right now. They also have $82m projected heading into this off-season. Seems to me that their cap space went fairly quickly. They essentially had 2 premier signings, and 3 mid-tier signings. 

I think this is sort of what you can assume  we’ll do. Two premier signings (I’m thinking one OL, one EDGE potentially—wildcard would be one of the top WR’s), a few mid-tier signings (I’d guess another OL, a LB, and a DB, and a WR if we didn’t sign a premier one). Then a smattering of even lesser deals (I’d guess a bargain TE, more defense, maybe a depth OL piece depending on what cuts we make or don’t make). Then some one year deals. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Conn

[JamesMadisonSkins]

44 minutes ago, Conn said:

I think this is sort of what you can assume  we’ll do. Two premier signings (I’m thinking one OL, one EDGE potentially—wildcard would be one of the top WR’s), a few mid-tier signings (I’d guess another OL, a LB, and a DB, and a WR if we didn’t sign a premier one). Then a smattering of even lesser deals (I’d guess a bargain TE, more defense, maybe a depth OL piece depending on what cuts we make or don’t make). Then some one year deals. 

 

OT Austin Jackson

WR Tee Higgins

DE Josh Allen

CB Jaylon Johnson

CB La'Jarius Snead

LB Jordyn Brooks

LB Patrick Queen

*S Kam Curl

 

Those are some of the premier players that will be available, that are young (sub-28) and might be logical targets. There are many more, but that's where I would start. 

[88Comrade2000]

We aren't fixing all our holes in one year.  Also, the new coach has to figure out which returning players on roster he will build around. 2024 will be a feel out year and I expect more changes to in 25; as the players who aren't a fit for the new coach will be discarded. 

 

[Ball Security]

15 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

OT Austin Jackson

WR Tee Higgins

DE Josh Allen

CB Jaylon Johnson

CB La'Jarius Snead

LB Jordyn Brooks

LB Patrick Queen

*S Kam Curl

 

Those are some of the premier players that will be available, that are young (sub-28) and might be logical targets. There are many more, but that's where I would start. 

I’d imagine the tag will come into play for some of these guys.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

21 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

I’d imagine the tag will come into play for some of these guys.

 

For sure, the ultimate top tier FA list ends up being about half of what it is projected to be at this time of the year, between tags, extensions, etc.

 

I do know the Dolphins are in a tight spot up against the cap, and Austin Jackson may be tough for them to bring back.

 

Sign Austin Jackson to be RT and draft Fashanu or Alt to be our LT. 

 

Fashanu - Wylie - Stromberg - Cosmi - Jackson

 

Daniels, Paul, Gates, Rookie IOL as depth. 

 

Draft an IOL in R2 or R3, and the OL is in pretty good shape, with good depth, and you can take that $13m you were paying Leno and kick it to Jackson, and come out almost even in terms of 2024 cap implications. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Est.1974]

I could see us trying to make a statement by throwing a stack of money at Devin White. Brooks or Queen other obvious options at a lesser cost. I also think we should take a run at Kyle Dugger. Building a reputation as an excellent leader in NE.

 

I personally want free agency to be focused on that side of the ball, not a big fan of most options on the O, especially on the OL.

 

However, I’d be very tempted to look at Gabe Davis from the Bills. Think he’d be a great addition to the receiving group. Depends on the anticipated early draft approach in that respect I guess.

 

Draft 2 OL, plus a TE and RB. Plus a receiver if we don’t go after one in FA. 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

34 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I could see us trying to make a statement by throwing a stack of money at Devin White. Brooks or Queen other obvious options at a lesser cost. I also think we should take a run at Kyle Dugger. Building a reputation as an excellent leader in NE.

 

I personally want free agency to be focused on that side of the ball, not a big fan of most options on the O, especially on the OL.

 

However, I’d be very tempted to look at Gabe Davis from the Bills. Think he’d be a great addition to the receiving group. Depends on the anticipated early draft approach in that respect I guess.

 

Draft 2 OL, plus a TE and RB. Plus a receiver if we don’t go after one in FA. 

 

 

Holes I am willing to let "wait" ... DE, TE, CB

Thoughts ...

 

DE: KJ Henry and Andre Jones were not drafted to be our starters, but they have pedigree and upside. Not saying we pencil them in as starters right now, but I am more willing to see what they can do with more opportunity.

 

TE: Cole Turner and John Bates have upside. Usually takes 2-3 years to emerge. Feel like Logan Thomas is a roadblock to more opps. for Turner. Not saying we avoid TE in the draft or FA as a result, but if it doesn't fit in where we pick, I'm okay moving forward with what we've got.

 

CB: Martin and Forbes have not been good. But at the same time, they are young and raw and should not be written off. I think adding a mid-level veteran FA to push for PT would work, along with another mid-round selection. 

 

That would allow us to focus on RB, WR, OL, LB in FA and early in the draft to really nail down. 

[samy316]

13 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Holes I am willing to let "wait" ... DE, TE, CB

Thoughts ...

 

DE: KJ Henry and Andre Jones were not drafted to be our starters, but they have pedigree and upside. Not saying we pencil them in as starters right now, but I am more willing to see what they can do with more opportunity.

 

TE: Cole Turner and John Bates have upside. Usually takes 2-3 years to emerge. Feel like Logan Thomas is a roadblock to more opps. for Turner. Not saying we avoid TE in the draft or FA as a result, but if it doesn't fit in where we pick, I'm okay moving forward with what we've got.

 

CB: Martin and Forbes have not been good. But at the same time, they are young and raw and should not be written off. I think adding a mid-level veteran FA to push for PT would work, along with another mid-round selection. 

 

That would allow us to focus on RB, WR, OL, LB in FA and early in the draft to really nail down. 

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with this.  TE is a vital need that we need to address through either the draft or FA.  If we had a good/great TE, that would open up so many things for our passing game.  The lack of TE quality on this team is derailing what we could be offensively (aside from OL, which we all know is a disaster zone as well).  If we were to get a great TE prospect like Brock Bowers, he would be an outstanding playmaker for our offense.  He would open up the passing game, and he is an excellent blocker.  We need to get a TE in this upcoming draft.  I would even suggest picking TE in Round 1 or 2, because I feel it's that important.  I don't want to have to go into another season with a below average TE group.  Logan Thomas and Cole Turner can kick rocks after this season. 

[Warhead36]

Yeah Turner stinks. He doesn't get open. He also can't block.

 

Thomas is washed at this point. He can get open from time to time but has no wiggle for YAC opportunities.

 

Bates is a blocking third TE. Non factor as a receiver.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

30 minutes ago, samy316 said:

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with this.  TE is a vital need that we need to address through either the draft or FA.  If we had a good/great TE, that would open up so many things for our passing game.  The lack of TE quality on this team is derailing what we could be offensively (aside from OL, which we all know is a disaster zone as well).  If we were to get a great TE prospect like Brock Bowers, he would be an outstanding playmaker for our offense.  He would open up the passing game, and he is an excellent blocker.  We need to get a TE in this upcoming draft.  I would even suggest picking TE in Round 1 or 2, because I feel it's that important.  I don't want to have to go into another season with a below average TE group.  Logan Thomas and Cole Turner can kick rocks after this season. 

 

Tight End ... still a position I would prefer to spend a 3rd or later on. Way too many stars, both in our past, and across the NFL landscape today, were found in the 3rd or later rounds. I am not wasting, yes, WASTING a 1st or early 2nd round pick on a TE. I cannot be talked off of this soap box.

 

I have seen way too many "but this guy is generational" TEs come through lately that were taken in the 1st round, while guys drafted in the 3rd-5th actually turned into generational talents.

Here are your 1st round TEs drafted in the last 10 years. One of these guys is probably getting drafted in the 1st round again (Hockenson). Kincaid may be on his way there too, and obviously Pitts is being criminally misused, but if he was truly as generational as he was supposed to be, he'd be demanding more usage.

 

Dalton Kincaid

Kyle Pitts

Hayden Hurst

Evan Engram

OJ Howard

David Njoku

Noah Fant

TJ Hockenson

Eric Ebron

Tyler Eifert

 

Here are your Top 10 TEs per PFF earlier this season ... 

1. Travis Kelce - 3rd

2. George Kittle - 5th

3. Mark Andrews - 3rd

4. TJ Hockenson - 1st

5. Dallas Goedert - 2nd

6. Sam LaPorta - 2nd

7. Kyle Pitts  - 1st

8. David Njoku - 1st

9. Jake Ferguson - 4th

10. Evan Engram - 1st

 

 

[Est.1974]

We’ll be drafting a TE before day 2 is in the book, IMO. Maybe even day 1……

[samy316]

48 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Tight End ... still a position I would prefer to spend a 3rd or later on. Way too many stars, both in our past, and across the NFL landscape today, were found in the 3rd or later rounds. I am not wasting, yes, WASTING a 1st or early 2nd round pick on a TE. I cannot be talked off of this soap box.

 

I have seen way too many "but this guy is generational" TEs come through lately that were taken in the 1st round, while guys drafted in the 3rd-5th actually turned into generational talents.

Here are your 1st round TEs drafted in the last 10 years. One of these guys is probably getting drafted in the 1st round again (Hockenson). Kincaid may be on his way there too, and obviously Pitts is being criminally misused, but if he was truly as generational as he was supposed to be, he'd be demanding more usage.

 

Dalton Kincaid

Kyle Pitts

Hayden Hurst

Evan Engram

OJ Howard

David Njoku

Noah Fant

TJ Hockenson

Eric Ebron

Tyler Eifert

 

Here are your Top 10 TEs per PFF earlier this season ... 

1. Travis Kelce - 3rd

2. George Kittle - 5th

3. Mark Andrews - 3rd

4. TJ Hockenson - 1st

5. Dallas Goedert - 2nd

6. Sam LaPorta - 2nd

7. Kyle Pitts  - 1st

8. David Njoku - 1st

9. Jake Ferguson - 4th

10. Evan Engram - 1st

 

 

 

I just think that TE is not just simply a plug in and play type deal with this team.  It's a blinking red light issue as far as I'm concerned, right after our OL situation.  We HAVE to upgrade our TE room, and if it takes drafting a TE on Day 1 of the draft, then that's what we need to do.  We can't go another season with subpar TE play, especially with a young, emerging QB that has the tools of becoming our franchise QB going forward.  We cannot settle for another year of Logan Thomas and Cole Turner.  We're putting Howell at a disadvantage, with a subpar TE room.

[MartinC]

8 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

He’s on IR.  I don’t remember why or if he could return this year.  
 

If he can he needs to be inserted into the OL and given reps immediately. 

He had a knee injury - but I don’t think the team ever confirmed what the extent of the injury was. 

[Warhead36]

2 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Tight End ... still a position I would prefer to spend a 3rd or later on. Way too many stars, both in our past, and across the NFL landscape today, were found in the 3rd or later rounds. I am not wasting, yes, WASTING a 1st or early 2nd round pick on a TE. I cannot be talked off of this soap box.

 

I have seen way too many "but this guy is generational" TEs come through lately that were taken in the 1st round, while guys drafted in the 3rd-5th actually turned into generational talents.

Here are your 1st round TEs drafted in the last 10 years. One of these guys is probably getting drafted in the 1st round again (Hockenson). Kincaid may be on his way there too, and obviously Pitts is being criminally misused, but if he was truly as generational as he was supposed to be, he'd be demanding more usage.

 

Dalton Kincaid

Kyle Pitts

Hayden Hurst

Evan Engram

OJ Howard

David Njoku

Noah Fant

TJ Hockenson

Eric Ebron

Tyler Eifert

 

Here are your Top 10 TEs per PFF earlier this season ... 

1. Travis Kelce - 3rd

2. George Kittle - 5th

3. Mark Andrews - 3rd

4. TJ Hockenson - 1st

5. Dallas Goedert - 2nd

6. Sam LaPorta - 2nd

7. Kyle Pitts  - 1st

8. David Njoku - 1st

9. Jake Ferguson - 4th

10. Evan Engram - 1st

 

 

I'm with you regarding TEs and have been vehemently outspoken about not drafting one high. 

 

With that said, Bowers is such a blue chip talent that I wouldn't completely hate the pick. Would still prefer a stud LT though.

[Ball Security]

5 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

For sure, the ultimate top tier FA list ends up being about half of what it is projected to be at this time of the year, between tags, extensions, etc.

 

I do know the Dolphins are in a tight spot up against the cap, and Austin Jackson may be tough for them to bring back.

 

Sign Austin Jackson to be RT and draft Fashanu or Alt to be our LT. 

 

Fashanu - Wylie - Stromberg - Cosmi - Jackson

 

Daniels, Paul, Gates, Rookie IOL as depth. 

 

Draft an IOL in R2 or R3, and the OL is in pretty good shape, with good depth, and you can take that $13m you were paying Leno and kick it to Jackson, and come out almost even in terms of 2024 cap implications. 

Dolphins have to be kicking themselves for not giving him his fifth year option. He was not good for two years, struggled with injuries in his third, and tearing it up this year. And he is super young. He is only a year older than some of these qb3-5 that are moving up in the first round conversation.
 

One thing about Miami OL is that they have really attractive QB pressure rates on one hand. But on the other hand Miami’s system is built around quick releases. Tua gets the ball out very quickly. 

[kingdaddy]

Given how critical of an offseason this is, I wonder if Harris and company have given much thought on the image they want to present to prospective GM's, coaches and players. Right now we are the lame ass Commanders, named by a lame ass former owner who destroyed the franchise. How does the new ownership make this a more attractive destination besides the cap money they have? Short of a name change, does a new logo or something add to the image they want to portray as being a fresh start for everyone? I don't know if they'll have enough time to change anything but I wonder if they can come up with something more attractive to entice players to come here. Maybe some bad ass new uniforms and helmet designs with a secondary logo of sorts? They'd be wise to tap in to the artists I've seen here on this site. 

I just don't think fixing the hot water in the showers is gonna be a big enough sell. We need to make this organization a desired destination!

 

[philibusters]

19 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

OT Austin Jackson

WR Tee Higgins

DE Josh Allen

CB Jaylon Johnson

CB La'Jarius Snead

LB Jordyn Brooks

LB Patrick Queen

*S Kam Curl

 

Those are some of the premier players that will be available, that are young (sub-28) and might be logical targets. There are many more, but that's where I would start. 

 

One of those guys does not belong with the others...

 

OT Austin Jackson.  PFF says he is having the best season of his four year career and his PFF grade is still only 63.   He is a Andrew Wylie type player, low level starter.  Every other person on that list is above average starter.   There really isn't a single impact Tackle available in free agency this year.

[philibusters]

17 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

I could see us trying to make a statement by throwing a stack of money at Devin White. Brooks or Queen other obvious options at a lesser cost. I also think we should take a run at Kyle Dugger. Building a reputation as an excellent leader in NE.

 

I personally want free agency to be focused on that side of the ball, not a big fan of most options on the O, especially on the OL.

 

However, I’d be very tempted to look at Gabe Davis from the Bills. Think he’d be a great addition to the receiving group. Depends on the anticipated early draft approach in that respect I guess.

 

Draft 2 OL, plus a TE and RB. Plus a receiver if we don’t go after one in FA. 

 

 

I sure hope we don't throw a lot of money at Devin White.  Maybe Tampa Bay is not using him that well, but he is not really a good player for Tampa Bay.  He is a splash player.  He'll make an occasional splash play because his athleticism is elite, but his run fits and instincts in coverage are very meh.  We already have a player somewhat like that in Jamin Davis.  If throwing money at Devin White is how this analytical minded front office spends it resources, it will raise questions for me.

 

Brooks and Queen I think are better players than White.  But even then I don't know if my move is to throw lots of money towards them.  Queen is a good player, but until Roquan Smith got there he was kind of hit or miss.  Good one week, struggled the next week.  I think having a superstar fellow LB next to him has helped Queen.   Brooks is solid, but nothing special.   If you can get him for a reasonable price then its a good get, but if you have to pay him big money, I think you are better off getting a more under the radar type LB.

[Skinsinparadise]

16 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

We’ll be drafting a TE before day 2 is in the book, IMO. Maybe even day 1……

 

I'd love to have a TE but to me that would be Bowers or bust based on what I watched so far.  Stover in the the third, J. Sanders maybe but on first glance wow does this TE class look like a step down from last year. 

 

Not a great FA class.  Maybe Noah Fant?  He's 26, so still young.  

[Skinsinparadise]

17 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Tight End ... still a position I would prefer to spend a 3rd or later on. Way too many stars, both in our past, and across the NFL landscape today, were found in the 3rd or later rounds. I am not wasting, yes, WASTING a 1st or early 2nd round pick on a TE. I cannot be talked off of this soap box.

 

I have seen way too many "but this guy is generational" TEs come through lately that were taken in the 1st round, while guys drafted in the 3rd-5th actually turned into generational talents.

Here are your 1st round TEs drafted in the last 10 years. One of these guys is probably getting drafted in the 1st round again (Hockenson). Kincaid may be on his way there too, and obviously Pitts is being criminally misused, but if he was truly as generational as he was supposed to be, he'd be demanding more usage.

 

Dalton Kincaid

Kyle Pitts

Hayden Hurst

Evan Engram

OJ Howard

David Njoku

Noah Fant

TJ Hockenson

Eric Ebron

Tyler Eifert

 

Here are your Top 10 TEs per PFF earlier this season ... 

1. Travis Kelce - 3rd

2. George Kittle - 5th

3. Mark Andrews - 3rd

4. TJ Hockenson - 1st

5. Dallas Goedert - 2nd

6. Sam LaPorta - 2nd

7. Kyle Pitts  - 1st

8. David Njoku - 1st

9. Jake Ferguson - 4th

10. Evan Engram - 1st

 

 

 

6 of the top 10 TEs you list in the top 10 are first or 2nd rounders so am not sure how that slam dunks that argument.

 

It's a strong argument IMO if there is a TE someone is on the soapbox for.  For example, if you said people are sleeping on AJ Barner, here is why I think he's special and others are sleeping on him, I think that's a strong case because it would be apples to apples to real life draft decisions. 

 

You are much more likely to draft a Zach Davidson in the 5th round than you would George Kittle.  So do you think we are the lucky team who finds the next Kittle, the diamond in the rough versus another Davidson when the odds are much greater you land another Davidson -- that's the bet.  The bet isn't the typical mid round TE is as good as an an early round TE.  That's clearly not true.  The question will be will this team be the team that fishes that right one in the mid rounds. 

 

From my amateur eye, this TE class looks "meh" on first glace.  The easier draft in theory for me to find that great TE in the midrounds was likely last year because it felt deep.  Even though so far it seems like the first-2nd round TEs that have emerged thus far as the better ones.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[kingdaddy]

22 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Lot of people are drawing parallels between our 2024 off-season and the Bears 2023 off-season. Bears had the #1 pick, we will not. But still, they had a boatload of picks, a young QB to build around, and $90m in cap space. Here is how their FA went:

 

1. LB Tremaine Edmunds: 4 years, $72m ($18m APY)

2. G Nate Davis: 3 years, $30m ($10m APY)

3. LB TJ Edwards: 3 years, $20m ($7m APY)

4. DE Demarcus Walker: 3 years, $21m ($7m APY)

*Traded for WR DJ Moore - $21.2m cap hit

 

D'onta Foreman, Robert Tonyan, Andrew Billings, PJ Walker, Nathan Peterman, Travis Homer were all brought in on 1-year deals. 

 

The Bears have approx. $5m in cap space right now. They also have $82m projected heading into this off-season. Seems to me that their cap space went fairly quickly. They essentially had 2 premier signings, and 3 mid-tier signings. 

Good stuff, how about Miami and Jacksonville the past couple of seasons? I recall both of them going wild with spending and wondering how they could get so many free agents.

They've both had quick turnarounds with young QB's.