The Official 2023 ES Free Agency Thread... available until Free Agency 2024 begins

[philibusters]

TIGHT ENDS

 

1.  MYCOLE PRUITT:  He turned 31 in March.  He is a very good number 2 TE.  He is a high 60's/low 70's PFF grade type player.   He is a mid 70's grade type receiver and low 60's grade run blocker.  He is never really been a featured TE, more of a second TE.  For example while the receiving grades are solid in the mid 70s over the last few years last year he had 16 receptions for 150 yards   and in 2021 he had 14 receptions for 145 yards.  So he is playing well, but playing well in a limited role. 

 

2.  MAXX WILLIAMS:  He turned 29 in April.  He was a third TE last year behind Zach Ertz and Trey McBride, but in previous years he was more of a second TE.  He is somewhat similar MyCole Pruitt.  A good second TE.  Averaging out his seasons he is basically a low to mid 60's type player being a mid to high 60's receiver and a low 60's run blocker.

 

3.  GEOFF SWAIM:  He'll turn 30 in September.  He is a mid 50's PFF grade type player.  He is mid 50's receiver and a mid 50's run blocker.

 

4.  MERCEDES LEWIS:  He turned 39 recently.  He is the best run blocking TE still on the market.   In his heyday he graded in the 80's in run blocking.  Looking over the last 3 seasons, he is probably a low 70's grade type run blocker.    He is not much of an explosive athlete at this point, but he is not bad a safety outlet for QB's grading in the low 60's as a receiver.

 

5.  CAMERON BRATE:  He'll be 32 in July.  Like GEOFF SWAIM he is a mid 50's PFF grade type player.  6 or 7 years ago he was a low 70's grade type player, but looking over his last 4 or 5 season at this point he is just a mid 50's grade type guy.  Averaging out his grades over the past few seasons he is in the 50's as a receiver and as a run blocker.

 

6.  ERIC TOMILINSON: He turned 31 in April.  He is probably a low to mid 60's grade type player at this point.  He is a high 50's to low 60's type receiver and a mid 60's to high 60's grade type run blocker.

 

I feel like we already have a good second TE in John Bates and that is what most of these guys are.  I don't think any of them would add a lot.   MyCole Pruitt is probably the best player at this point.  Mercedes Lewis is the best blocker.   Eric Tomilinson and Maxx Williams are both solid number 2 TE's.    Barring an injury I would pass on all these guys as while they are decent depth pieces I am not sure any of them really add to what we have.

Edited May 28, 2023 by philibusters

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, philibusters said:

TIGHT ENDS

 

1.  MYCOLE PRUITT:  He turned 31 in March.  He is a very good number 2 TE.  He is a high 60's/low 70's PFF grade type player.   He is a mid 70's grade type receiver and low 60's grade run blocker.  He is never really been a featured TE, more of a second TE.  For example while the receiving grades are solid in the mid 70s over the last few years last year he had 16 receptions for 150 yards   and in 2021 he had 14 receptions for 145 yards.  So he is playing well, but playing well in a limited role. 

 

2.  MAXX WILLIAMS:  He turned 29 in April.  He was a third TE last year behind Zach Ertz and Trey McBride, but in previous years he was more of a second TE.  He is somewhat similar MyCole Pruitt.  A good second TE.  Averaging out his seasons he is basically a low to mid 60's type player being a mid to high 60's receiver and a low 60's run blocker.

 

3.  GEOFF SWAIM:  He'll turn 30 in September.  He is a mid 50's PFF grade type player.  He is mid 50's receiver and a mid 50's run blocker.

 

4.  MERCEDES LEWIS:  He turned 39 recently.  He is the best run blocking TE still on the market.   In his heyday he graded in the 80's in run blocking.  Looking over the last 3 seasons, he is probably a low 70's grade type run blocker.    He is not much of an explosive athlete at this point, but he is not bad a safety outlet for QB's grading in the low 60's as a receiver.

 

5.  CAMERON BRATE:  He'll be 32 in July.  Like GEOFF SWAIM he is a mid 50's PFF grade type player.  6 or 7 years ago he was a low 70's grade type player, but looking over his last 4 or 5 season at this point he is just a mid 50's grade type guy.  Averaging out his grades over the past few seasons he is in the 50's as a receiver and as a run blocker.

 

6.  ERIC TOMILINSON: He turned 31 in April.  He is probably a low to mid 60's grade type player at this point.  He is a high 50's to low 60's type receiver and a mid 60's to high 60's grade type run blocker.

 

I feel like we already have a good second TE in John Bates and that is what most of these guys are.  I don't think any of them would add a lot.   MyCole Pruitt is probably the best player at this point.  Mercedes Lewis is the best blocker.   Eric Tomilinson and Maxx Williams are both solid number 2 TE's.    Barring an injury I would pass on all these guys as while they are decent depth pieces I am not sure any of them really add to what we have.

Those guys all blow. Bates is better than all of them. It's Cole Turner or bust for us. Maybe Hodges or one of these undrafted, rarely signed gems we keep hearing about.

[MartinC]

If we are adding anyone who we expect to make any kind of significant contribution (at any position not just TE) at this point it will more likely be in the late camp cuts than anyone still on the street at this time.

[philibusters]

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

If we are adding anyone who we expect to make any kind of significant contribution (at any position not just TE) at this point it will more likely be in the late camp cuts than anyone still on the street at this time.

 

I think you are correct.   I do think there are a couple options on the O-Line that could instantly improve it.  Risner at Guard or any of Peters, Beachum (would have to trade for him) or even Shell at tackle would give you another starter on the O-Line.  Risner fixes the LG spot directly and the three tackles indirectly fix it by taking the RT spot and allowing you to address LG by putting Wylie there.  That said I don't think the team is leaning in that direction.

 

In regards to LB Barr or Alexander definitely improves the depth but neither really improves the unit if everybody is healthy.  If we get injuries there and we have David Mayo and Eifler playing meaning season snaps we would regret not improving the depth but if Davis and Barton are healthy we are talking about spot snaps.

[DWinzit]

18 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Those guys all blow.

Indeed they do!

Lets pray there are some better options after June 1st.

Its sad when the best recent FA option was Anthony Firsker and he just singed with the Pats

Edited May 29, 2023 by DWinzit
spelling

[method man]

On 5/28/2023 at 5:47 AM, DWinzit said:

I wanted them to draft Cunningham so bad. Can't tell you how disappointed I was when they announced Ryan Andersons name...still irks me

 

They had opportunities in the past at some of these guys and skipped out. Barr is the only one really worthy at this point. 

 

I don't understand what happened to Smith, he was looking like he was on the verge of stardom a few years ago

I would be fine with any of these 4 guys. I think this DL would help with Kwon’s run D but it’s not like the Jets’ and Saints’ DLs are bad

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[redskinss]

First the viking fans were surprised by his release and now we are.

He must be a bit of a cancer because he's not highly paid and his talent suggests he deserves to be on a roster this time of year.

[philibusters]

14 minutes ago, redskinss said:

First the viking fans were surprised by his release and now we are.

He must be a bit of a cancer because he's not highly paid and his talent suggests he deserves to be on a roster this time of year.

 

Yeah, I am surprised.  It was a bit of a luxury to have a player with that much playing experience as your fourth corner, but I am a little surprised they waived him.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

17 minutes ago, redskinss said:

First the viking fans were surprised by his release and now we are.

He must be a bit of a cancer because he's not highly paid and his talent suggests he deserves to be on a roster this time of year.

 

I heard the opposite, Vikings fans thought he was awful and were not surprised. They then were surprised someone claimed him on waivers.

 

Some of this fan base cited Dantzler as the reason the CB position was now "solved" and why we should not draft corners early in the 2023 draft. That sentiment grew post-draft, with anger as to why we did not address TE, or LB, or OL in the 1st round, still citing Dantzler as why Forbes at #16 was unnecessary. I wonder who they'll focus on next, maybe it will be in-house development and growth from Wildgoose or Holmes as to why a 1st rounder on a CB was unnecessary?

 

Also "what talent" did Dantzler possess. Certainly wasn't physical talent, his testing measurables were all atrocious. Here's his spider chart:

[Darth Tater]

On 5/28/2023 at 11:49 AM, Koolblue13 said:

Those guys all blow. Bates is better than all of them. It's Cole Turner or bust for us. Maybe Hodges or one of these undrafted, rarely signed gems we keep hearing about.

I suspect that any TE available is either going to be a worse option than what we have now or a pleasant surprise (another team's version of Cole Turner).

[philibusters]

10 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

I heard the opposite, Vikings fans thought he was awful and were not surprised. They then were surprised someone claimed him on waivers.

 

Some of this fan base cited Dantzler as the reason the CB position was now "solved" and why we should not draft corners early in the 2023 draft. That sentiment grew post-draft, with anger as to why we did not address TE, or LB, or OL in the 1st round, still citing Dantzler as why Forbes at #16 was unnecessary. I wonder who they'll focus on next, maybe it will be in-house development and growth from Wildgoose or Holmes as to why a 1st rounder on a CB was unnecessary?

 

Also "what talent" did Dantzler possess. Certainly wasn't physical talent, his testing measurables were all atrocious. Here's his spider chart:

 

 

The thing about Dantzler is he had a lot of snaps under belt so his pre-draft measureables don't matter.  He was a good depth piece.  He had played 1791 snaps in his three seasons and averaged out as mid 60's PFF grade type player.  Both in terms of length and play quality he was somewhat similar to Benjamin St. Juste.  In the ideal world he is your third corner, but if he is your second corner, you are not completely out of luck.  As a fourth corner behind Fuller, Forbes, and St. Juste he was an luxury.  He got into the dog house of multiple coaches in Minnesota, first with the Zimmer regime than with the O'Connell regime so its not a shock, but still a mild surprise.  As a cornerback room we are fine.  St. Juste is a solid third corner.

Edited May 30, 2023 by philibusters

[Est.1974]

55 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Dantzler was also due 2.7mil so a healthy saving on the cap right there. Especially as the June 1st Roullier move is about to kick in too on the salary cap position.

[Darth Tater]

41 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

Yeah, I am surprised.  It was a bit of a luxury to have a player with that much playing experience as your fourth corner, but I am a little surprised they waived him.

When he was signed pre-draft, he had a CB 3 spot that was his to lose, with how the draft fell, he was now the odd man out and would have had to win a spot baring injury. He did not play much on special teams and a 4 CB that does not play teams is a luxury. Last season, the only CBs that did not get significant special teams snaps were only 1 and 2.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Darth Tater

[FootballZombie]

We are allergic to TEs with NFL XP.

 

Not asking for a world beater, especially at this part of the offseason. Just a guy that has been thru the ups and downs of the NFL.

We somehow found a TE w/ less NFL recs than turner... and he only had 2.

 

They are asking for a repeat of last year at TE. Dummy Ball.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

27 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

The thing about Dantzler is he had a lot of snaps under belt so his pre-draft measureables don't matter.  He was a good depth piece.  He had played 1791 snaps in his three seasons and averaged out as mid 60's PFF grade type player. 

If PFF was actually indicative of his quality of play, then he would still be on the Vikings or Commanders for a measly 2.7 million.

 

27 minutes ago, philibusters said:

Both in terms of length and play quality he was somewhat similar to Benjamin St. Juste.

 

I don't know why the thought of Dantzler being "long"  keeps being repeated.

 

Arm Length:

St. Juste - 32.625" or 87% of all CB's (that's long armed)

Dantzler - 30.625" or 29.6% of all CB's (that's short armed)

Wingspan:

St. Juste - 78.625"

Dantzler - 72.375"

 

St. Juste is long. Dantzler is definitely not.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

28 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Dantzler was also due 2.7mil so a healthy saving on the cap right there. Especially as the June 1st Roullier move is about to kick in too on the salary cap position.

 

Dantzler + Roullier + Norwell gives us almost $18 million. The remaining rookies left to sign would take us back to something like $10 million I think? So ample room for the season and a nice chunk to roll-over to next season. I think that'll put us right around NFL average.

[method man]

They must like what they saw from the other corners enough to let Dantzler go. Getting $2.7M back helps. 

[MartinC]

Cam Danzler did not last long! Writing was probably on the wall for him when we drafted DBs with our first two picks. 

[MrJL]

2 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Cam Danzler did not last long! Writing was probably on the wall for him when we drafted DBs with our first two picks. 

I thought a guy like him could beat out the lowest guys on the bench

[MartinC]

5 minutes ago, MrJL said:

I thought a guy like him could beat out the lowest guys on the bench

Not at $2.7M per. You want someone on a rookie deal who is also a key teams player in that spot.

[redskinss]

2 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Also "what talent" did Dantzler possess. Certainly wasn't physical talent, his testing measurables were all atrocious. Here's his spider chart:

Athleticism and talent are two very different things.

He was drafted in the 3rd round and stuck around as a starter for 3 years with poor measurable which must mean he's very talented. 

Also the reports I saw from Vikings fans were mixed but more than not were very surprised they let him go but also knew of the rift between him and the coaches.

 

Sounds to me like he's just a pain in the ass that's not worth the hassle. 

[Wyvern]

I wasn't a fan of the Dantzler acquisition, so I can understand his release.

 

I didn't know Norwell needed to be PUP. Frankly,  I suspect it's more a matter of $$$ and doubts whether he'd fit Bieniemy's preference for zone blocking. 

 

Odd how the organization clings to the hope that Saahdiq Charles will come through in the final year of his contract.  The way Charles has performed over his tenure with Washington, he should give back some of the 1.2 million he's getting this year. And even if he performs adequately, Washington would have to pay a free patent market rate to retain his services.

 

My concern is how this organization feels it's getting stronger by subtraction, in the name of salary cap. -- especially on the O-line.  I get how the bar might be a little lower for competent ZBS O-linemen, but I still see a lot of question-marks being penciled in as O-line pass protection for Howell's evaluation period as a bona-fide NFL starting QB for Washington. ... And considering how the rest of the NFC-East beefed up their defenses, I'm wondering how fairly Washington will be able to evaluate the quality of their QB.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Wyvern