Attacks on the Power Grid

[China]

First, in 2016, a sniper attack on a the power grid in Utah, where they guy was planning further attacks.

 

Next, there was last year's attack on the PG&E Metcalf Substation in California. Although not ruled terrorism, caused significant damage and displayed the vulnerability of the power grid.

 

Then, three men work convicted of conspiring to attack the power grid in February of this year.

 

There was the recent NC power grid attack.

 

And now we have reports of 5 substations attacked in Pacific Northwest in November.

 

Sounds like this is a trending problem that needs to be addressed before we have even more serious problems.

[Jabbyrwock]

17 minutes ago, China said:

First, in 2016, a sniper attack on a the power grid in Utah, where they guy was planning further attacks.

 

Next, there was last year's attack on the PG&E Metcalf Substation in California. Although not ruled terrorism, caused significant damage and displayed the vulnerability of the power grid.

 

Then, three men work convicted of conspiring to attack the power grid in February of this year.

 

There was the recent NC power grid attack.

 

And now we have reports of 5 substations attacked in Pacific Northwest in November.

 

Sounds like this is a trending problem that needs to be addressed before we have even more serious problems.

 

Clearly we need to arm substation workers and transmission system operators.  As we all know the best way to stop bad guys with guns is good guys with guns.  Also a bucket truck would make an amazing sniping platform.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

Working our way to a new dark ages.

[PokerPacker]

Don't forget when The Weather attacked the power grid and Ted Cruz made a harrowing escape to Cancun.

[PleaseBlitz]

Or the dumb**** pilot that crashed into power lines last week. 

[dunfer]

1 hour ago, Jabbyrwock said:

 

Clearly we need to arm substation workers and transmission system operators.  As we all know the best way to stop bad guys with guns is good guys with guns.  Also a bucket truck would make an amazing sniping platform.

as history shows....We can make jokes about it, but if the bad guys have guns...the good guys better have a bigger gun. Problem is everyone thinks theyre the good guy

Edited December 8, 2022 by dunfer

[PokerPacker]

1 minute ago, dunfer said:

as history shows....We can make jokes about it, but if the bad guys have guns...the good guys better have a bigger gun. Problem is everyone thinks theyre the good guy

Obligatory (sorry for off-topic)

 

[Jabbyrwock]

48 minutes ago, dunfer said:

as history shows....We can make jokes about it, but if the bad guys have guns...the good guys better have a bigger gun. Problem is everyone thinks theyre the good guy

 

Some of us are completely comfortable with our gun size...

[TheGreatBuzz]

I've thought for a while that our electric grid is too soft a target. This just shows how easily a few crazies (no matter skin color) can cause problems.  Imagine a little more sophisticated people and what they could do.  And most people nowadays can't live without power, either directly or indirectly. 

[PleaseBlitz]

God, I would love to have the power knocked out for a few days so I can get some time off. Spring preferably, but Im not picky. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

I figure I could go a couple weeks without power and not really have to leave if I don't want.  But I know most aren't that prepared. 

[dunfer]

Just now, TheGreatBuzz said:

I figure I could go a couple weeks without power and not really have to leave if I don't want.  But I know most aren't that prepared. 

losing power really sucks when youre on a well.

Getting a solar array to charge a lithium battery bank(generator) that you can plug into your breaker box is what ive been looking into

 

[tshile]

I got a 12000 watt generator instead of battery. I’m not saying it’s the better choice, just cheaper and the one I went with. 
 

but, to the topic, you cannot defend these things without a serious cost. there’s too many of them and they were designed to keep vandals out or kids from being dumb and hurting/milking themselves. Retrofitting then go withstand attacks is like building a wall on the border. 
 

on some level we must rely on our agencies to thwart a large scale attack. Not because it’s fool proof but because it’s the most practical. 
 

investing in the ability to deploy mobile generators to in some way alleviate the problem and designating areas of the country to house them for reasonable deployment time would be smart. I know we have some capability, maybe it’s enough maybe it’s not. 
 

Changing the design going forward for new substations would be nice but I have no idea how you do it without spending serious money. 
 

investing in education so people understand the threat and that the government takes it seriously could help quell panic if there is a coordinated attack

Imagine if instead of bust shooting into it people start throwing lots of pressure cooker bombs or other IED’s so that the repair timeline is months instead of weeks. (Maybe thinking it’d take months to replace most of a substation is silly, 🤷‍♂️)

[TheGreatBuzz]

9 minutes ago, dunfer said:

losing power really sucks when youre on a well.

Getting a solar array to charge a lithium battery bank(generator) that you can plug into your breaker box is what ive been looking into

 

I prefer to just have water stored than rely on a system I'm not capable of fixing.  But every situation is different.

3 minutes ago, tshile said:

investing in education so people understand the threat and that the government takes it seriously could help quell panic if there is a coordinated attack

Imagine if instead of bust shooting into it people start throwing lots of pressure cooker bombs or other IED’s so that the repair timeline is months instead of weeks. (Maybe thinking it’d take months to replace most of a substation is silly, 🤷‍♂️)

 read up on the suply levels of replacement parts and how long they can take to make.  That is what will really scare you.

[tshile]

21 minutes ago, dunfer said:

losing power really sucks when youre on a well.

It’s interesting when you find yourself in a conversation with people who don’t… actually understand how their house works. 
 

around here we have lots of gas - natural gas or propane tanks in more rural areas. And some people tend to think they’ll have heat when snow takes out power. They don’t seem to understand the fan that pushes the air around the house and the thermostat don’t run on gas 😂 

 

 

8 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

read up on the suply levels of replacement parts and how long they can take to make.  That is what will really scare you.

Well that’s really my point with having mobile units to deploy. I know r have some. **** Texas was offered use of them. We also have ways or rerouting power. There are options. 
 

But investing in securing substations seems like a loser. Cat and mouse game. Investing in making the damage as minimal as possible while repairs are made seems way smarter to me. 
 

(for all I know we already have this in place. I’d like to think our agencies are a little more forward thinking on this than, well, I am …)

Edited December 9, 2022 by tshile

[TheGreatBuzz]

I hope the government is able to help.  But I'll make other plans just in case.

[The 12th Commandment]

Where's the outcry to build walls around all the substations?   They might actually do some good in that application. 

 

And figure out how to make the haters pay for it.

 

I jest.  Having appraised hundreds of substations in an old job, there are so many and they are so spread throughout the landscape, that protecting them securely is a stretch.  Building more redundancy and localized power storage into the grid will be the solution.  I feel fairly dystopian having this discussion.

[tshile]

@TheGreatBuzzoh yeah I was thinking more how to keep society from falling into disarray because 25 power stations in a region or the country were destroyed at the same time. 
 

On a personal level you’d been a fool to rely on the government 😂 

[PleaseBlitz]

In VA, the government sells all the liquor, so gonna need to rely on them for something. 
 

 

 

After I plow through my storage room full of dozens of bottles of bourbon emergency rations. 
 

 

[PokerPacker]

Just now, PleaseBlitz said:

In VA, the government sells all the liquor, so gonna need to rely on them for something. 
 

 

 

After I plow through my storage room full of dozens of bottles of bourbon emergency rations. 
 

 

Well we also have moonshiners in VA if the government fails in their liquorly duty.

[Cooked Crack]

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

This country isn't going to take the security of the power grid seriously until a major incident happens that we are stuck being reactive instead of proactive.  And people will die first.

[Hersh]

3 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

This country isn't going to take the security of the power grid seriously until a major incident happens that we are stuck being reactive instead of proactive.  And people will die first.

 

When was the last time this country did something proactively in the last 40 years outside of spending trillions on the military? 

[Bang]

15 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

This country isn't going to take the security of the power grid seriously until a major incident happens that we are stuck being reactive instead of proactive.  And people will die first.

That is because this country will treat acts of war as (mostly) localized individual matters for the local police. Even if they establish a connection, then the FBI will get involved, but it will be treated as a matter for law enforcement.
In reality we should treat them as enemy combatants, which is what they are.

 

~Bang

[LadySkinsFan]

Have state legislatures pass very stringent laws against power disruption with very long prison sentences and fines.  Install lots of cameras around on subsidiary power source. Record the perpetrators, arrest, try, convict, and very large sentences and fines.  It's deterrent. And if it's found that organized groups are committing these crimes, Congress can legislate a federal RICO type crime. Same deterrence. 

 

Personally I'm tired of offshoot individuals and groups are placing people's lives in jeopardy. And I don't really care what political spectrum they fall under.