Next Day Thread: Vikings Pillaged Our Pride

[KDawg]

 

Roller coasters are fun. On the way up you are anticipating all of the good. For us, that's rationalizing in your head, "okay, maybe we are actually in the playoff hunt, we're beating a 6-1 team and look impressive in the second half", "Maybe Snyder looking to sell is good mojo!", "Heinicke is a literal Jedi despite his shortcomings", things like that. The way down is supposed to be the scary part on an actual roller coaster. It was no different watching this game. Just seemingly minutes after Heinicke threw a pass into triple coverage where he was obviously aware that the back judge was in perfect position to set a pick on the defender with the best chance to pick it off that was caught by Curtis Samuel for a touchdown... he threw the ball to Harrison Smith. Directly to him. Right in his grasp.

 

That is Taylor Heinicke. He will give you tremendous highs, where it's ugly but damn does it feel good to see him talking and signaling and watching his teammates get involved. And then he will crush your dreams and aspirations into a powdery pulp. Sometimes he then bounces back again, but Minnesota had no intention of scoring anything other than a field goal to win the game at the end and therefore he didn't even get the chance. 

 

Many wanted Turner to call more roll outs for him, as people think that's his strength. But I disagree. I think Heinicke's strength is actually breaking the umbrella pocket himself on a broken play and creating that way. That is when his legs are the biggest asset. When he rolls out, in my opinion, he brings defenders with him. The receivers are all going to that side of the field, the defenders go with and there is no threat he's going to throw the backside over route or anything to the backside of the formation so they sell out to cut him off and make him throw. When he breaks the pocket on his own, the routes aren't all rolling with him. He has running lanes. He can make a good decision in that space and generally he creates in that scenario. 

 

But that doesn't mean that I think Turner called a great game. He didn't. He gets too cute at times and at times just seems like he is trying to outsmart everyone else in the room. But again, it's hard to blame him as the playbook is scaled back with Heinicke a little bit. No, that's not a shot. He just doesn't have the arm strength to have the full array of pass concepts available. Doesn't mean good games can't be called with him. Today wasn't one of our best. I'm also a bit tired with the old, "let's not adjust until the half and then make a run" gimmick. 

 

Our clock management continues to be... interesting. We challenge a spot that was about a yard. He probably should have won the challenge, but I just don't see why the risk was worth it. 3rd and 1, you could have two chances to grab that yard if you wanted. Take the spot and save the timeout. As it turns out, Dalvin Cook got tackled with 2:26 left in the game and we didn't spend our remaining timeout at that time. That play was able to tick down to the 2 minute warning. More timeouts and Rivera may have used one there. Or maybe he doesn't. Who knows at this point.

 

But let's talk about the positive: I love St-Juste, Kam Curl, Daron Payne, Jon Allen and Jamin Davis. They all played very good games today. And Bobby McCain down closer to the LoS is a MUCH more likeable player than him playing as a high safety. The guy is an aggressive player near the LoS and he was snuffing out screens like it was second nature. Montez Sweat almost went on a milk carton today. Made a few plays late to keep himself off of it. But our DEs continue to disappoint. Young is out, so that's part of it. But Sweat is a first rounder who is going to demand big money. We need more out of him in big moments. Having said that, Daron Payne and Jon Allen should both be all pros this year. 

 

Jamin Davis continues to improve, and our defense seems better with Holcomb on the sideline and WJ3 off the roster. 

 

Kudos to Del Rio and the entire defensive coaching staff for the changes they've made recently to make this unit a solid unit. 

 

Side note: I want to comment on how hard Brian Robinson runs. The dude is a horse, man. 

 

Terry McLaurin watch: Heading into today he was 13th all time in Washington Football Redskin Commander Team History with 3,643 yards. Today he added 56 yards to that total bringing him to 3,699 yards. #12 is Henry Ellard with 3930 and #11 is Michael Westbrook with 4,280. He's in range for both this year. On this season McLaurin has 38 receptions for 609 yards.

 

As an aside, Curtis Samuel (who I never wavered on skill but I almost totally wrote off for health) has 45 receptions for 455 yards. 

 

*** - Back Judge - Best Pick route we've run all year

*** - Daron Payne

*** - Jon Allen

*** - Benjamin St-Juste

** - Jamin Davis

** - Curtis Samuel

* - Terry McLaurin

 - Taylor Heinicke & Scott Turner (relax, Hive)

  - Ron Rivera's Clock Management

   - John Ridgeway (I forgive you, I've liked you so far. Rookie mistake, bounce back)

 

Season to date:

* x 10 - Terry McLaurin

* x 10 - Daron Payne

* x 9 - Jon Allen

* x 7 - Curtis Samuel

* x 6 - Benjamin St-Juste

* x 5 - Jamin Davis

* x 5 - Jahan Dotson

* x 3- Dyami Brown

* x 3  - Antonio Gibson

* x 3 - Back Judge in Vikings Game

* x 2 - Montez Sweat

* x 1 - Rachad Wildgoose

* x 1 - Darrick Forrest

* x 1 - James Smith-Williams

 x 1 - Taylor Heinicke

 x 1 - Jack Del Rio

 x 1 - Joey Slye

 x 1 - Bobby McCain

 x 1 - Wes Schweitzer

 x 3 -Rivera's Clock Management

 x 3 - John Ridgeway

 x 3 - Cam Sims

 x 4 - Scott Turner

 x 5 - Charles Leno

 x 5 - Trai Turner

 x 6 - Nick Martin

 x 6 - WJ3

 x 7 - Sam Cosmi

 x 8 - Andrew Norwell

Edited November 6, 2022 by KDawg

[Cooleyfan1993]

Trash. Garbage. Suck. Awful. Barf. 
 

did I cover it all? Oh wait. **** the snyders!!!! **** everything.

[Warhead36]

The defense is legit and deserves to be playing in the postseason but is unfortunately held back by a mediocre dinosaur head coach, an idiot OC, a QB that has too many physical limitations to sustain consistent offense, and an OL that can't pass protect for diddly poo. 

[88Comrade2000]

Who cares. Just be patient; the new era starts in 24.

[CommanderInTheRye]

Jon Allen was amazing today.

 

I'd give him 4 stars with a cherry on top. He may be the second best defensive tackle in the league behind all world Aaron Donald.

[TChaler70]

Big TH fan but the end is near for him and Scott Turner. No way you can throw a pick in your territory up 7 with that D late in the game, just terrible. Terrible mental mistake by Special Teams and Ron kept TH from doing what he does best but the INT is by far the number 1 killer, TH has limitations as stated above but he is a backup we werent much better with the 28mil starter.

 

Oline and play calls are garbage, last 2 games:

Robinson 2.5 avg and 3.4 avg, 

Gibby 2.7 avg and 3.3 avg

 

A lot of others on this Offense arent holding up their end of the bargain. Short slip screens are never blocked correctly.

Edited November 6, 2022 by TChaler70

[Zim489]

The entire premise of our game plan is limit mistakes, limit big plays, and control the clock so you have a chance to win late. 
 

If it works then you hope to win more of the 5050 games than you should and they have with Taylor. Taylor is 8-4 after today in one score games. The league on a year to year basis is roughly a coin flip. Most teams are rarely below 45% and above 55%. They have gotten lucky in these games. Usually in ugly games against terrible teams. The back to back 17-15 wins last year and the Colts game are prime examples. The luck will eventually balance out and sooner the better. We want the loses in this honestly meaningless season to set the next staff up better. 
 

When things don’t work out to plan they get utterly blown out. So the two outcomes are either get blown out or a coin flip. That’s not a way to build a team. That’s not to be great. That’s to not suck. 
 

A great comparison would be the Dale Hunter coached Capitals in the early 2010s. While they eventually won a series in the playoffs everyone learned to agree that this wasn’t sustainable in a long run and leads to just an endless loop of mediocrity 
 

This staff must go at seasons end. They can’t be allowed to run the 23 offseason. 

[Ball Security]

For a team that likes to associate itself with the military at every turn, it sure is undisciplined.  The Ridgeway play stands out.  But I also want to call attention to early in the game.  We get a big stop deep into Vikings territory, forcing a punt.  Milne fields it at our 45 and gets about a 12 yard return.  But it gets nullified by a hold.  So instead of starting a drive in Vikings territory, we let them flip the field and start at our own 35.  Of course the offense sputters and they get the ball back on their 20.

 

[Zim489]

12 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

Jon Allen was amazing today.

Their 3T position is great regardless of who’s playing it. Allen or Payne. The problem here is that Allen is so much more consistent when he’s the 3T as opposed to Payne. 

[Destino]

I really thought this season we’d have an offense that could score.  I didn’t think the team would win a ton of games but I imagined that we’d see plenty of scoring.  What we’ve gotten is 17ppg, which is awful.  
 

 

[Renegade7]

This is what happens when your bend but don't break strategy with your backup QB final breaks.

 

Eagles game makes me nervous, they remember Taylor from last year and are better while he hasn't changed a bit.

 

The good news is even if we get set on fire next week, next two games a winnable to get back to .500, on Wentz after that.

 

Which means Taylor did his job, piling on after that isn't fair.  I'm not even mad at him, called this week ago and thankful he did get us some wins before reality came back to say "Hello There"...

 

This is a damn good team with a QB...

Edited November 7, 2022 by Renegade7

[dunfer]

Dbs are starting to gel with the line. Defense was impressive.

 

the wasted timeouts early was stupid

 

Turner calling those trick plays and laughing in the booth when they failed seemed a little carefree.

 

Defense was built from the core out...offense seems built from the edges in

[Zim489]

11 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

This is a damn good team with a QB...

IMO its not. The Oline needs pretty much completely rebuilt. They still lack an X WR. TE lacks a dynamic starter. LBs are still sub par thankfully Jamin is getting better but Holcomb is nothing but a see ball carrier tackle ball carrier LB that cant cover. FS is an issue. Fuller isnt good and is likely out with a new staff. Theres no good Slot CB on the team and the depth is bad. 

 

This team needs pretty much an entire tear down and rebuild from foundation. Right now if it were me taking over heres the names im keeping that you can write in as starters:

 

Offense: Cosmi Terry Dotson. Dotson would also have to prove alot that he can show hes more than a mid level Z WR. Ideally they find a true X and allow Terry to feast from the line in the Z. This team utterly struggles with press across the board. None of the RBs are re sign worthy and that goes for nearly all of the league at the position. So 3 guys right now and thats it

 

Defense: Allen Chase Curl Jamin BSJ. Not paying two interior Dlineman top of position money money. Especially as the league moves more and more to 3-3-5. Sweat is far too hot and cold and could get back a decent trade piece. 

 

So about 8 of the 22 positions I would consider as set 

[Renegade7]

@Zim489 please explain how between between Terry, Dotson, and Samuels we dont have an X reciever or why that matters?

 

Do we holes, yes, but that's a 7-1 football team that barely got out of our stadium alive.

 

The way the defense is playing and weapons we already have on offense, my goodness, I can think of a couple QBs in the AFC that would help more then cover for those deficiencies.  Every team has holes.

 

This is NOT roster that needs to get nuked, that's what you sound like saying Gibson isn't resign worthy.  Where's the love for Forrest who helped save a TD today as well? He's PFF score is through the roof, it's no coincidence our defense has looked this much better lately, we all the sudden have the best safety tandem we've had since Area 51.  And they both only 23.

 

[petey hodge]

I went thru the defined "Stages of Grieving" after the loss today...

 

Step 1) Kept in disbelief for most the afternoon

 

 

Here's the ultimate therapy to get to Step 5) without all the steps.

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by petey hodge

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

For any non gamblers that may be wondering, that’s a lot of points.

[Cooleyfan1993]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

[hail2skins]

If we didn't have a first-ballot HOF QB like we do in Heinicke, betting line would be 17 easy. 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

For any non gamblers that may be wondering, that’s a lot of points.

Heinicke’s moxie might come alive on Monday Night 

[Zim489]

29 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

please explain how between between Terry, Dotson, and Samuels we dont have an X reciever or why that matters?

All of them struggle vs press. 

[skinsfan93]

First I just wished we would play like we’re down 2 scores right from the start of the game.
 

Ron is just not a good game day coach anymore, maybe he never was … even in Carolina. Say what you want about Scott but he takes his cues from Ron and what he wants. Ron simply doesn’t dictate the flow of the game and instead is always reacting to what is going on in the game rather than initiate the flow and tempo of the game. Plus whatever happened to the so called Riverboat Ron? He always seems to gamble at the wrong time whether that’s going for it on 4th down or a challenge. 
 

For example, I get the feeling Ron wanted to go long to start the second half regardless and we see Taylor throwing into obviously triple coverage. Okay good it worked out. Now we’re soon up 10 and its the 4th quarter and the Vikings hadn’t done much on offense besides the first series of the game. Ron knows Heinickes propensity to throw interceptions and rather than putting the game away by playing SMASH MOUTH FOOTBALL, he decides to throw it to Logan who hasn’t caught a ball in the last 2 games on a 2nd down play. 
 

If you know the formula right now is to keep it close and play it safe why not just run the ball?  I hope whoever the new owner is brings in a real GM who hires a coach who can create a true identity for our team!

 

28 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The home team gets 3 points on the line so if we played at a neutral site it would be a touchdown line. Surprised it’s not more. 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by skinsfan93

[JSSkinz]

Heinicke's gonna need some super-moxie to beat the Eagles. He could sleep in a moxibaric chamber, take moxie showers, and brush his teeth with raw moxie and I still see us 4-6 after next week, they're too good and its in Philly.

[Warhead36]

12 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

Ron knows Heinickes propensity to throw interceptions and rather than putting the game away by playing SMASH MOUTH FOOTBALL, he decides to throw it to Logan who hasn’t caught a ball in the last 2 games on a 2nd down play. 

 

 

Thomas was wide open and we were averaging under 3 YPC with Robinson and Gibson. That was a rare good call by Turner, Heinicke just effed it.

[petey hodge]

Look... I'm an ODU fan.  Love what TH has done for us Monarchs

 

But any person could see today that he is simply not a threat to take it downfield... and he thrives in the dinks and dunks short passing game.  eg. one-dimensional in the NFL

 

If you watch any of the replays, you could see a LB or safety spying on TH... which eliminated the threat of his wheels.

 

TH has thrived this year, much like Russell W at the Seahawks, with keep-the-play-alive offscript stuff.

 

As much as I want TH to succeed, I know very well he has limitations at this level.

 

So there... "Broken-play Tay" is a great Backup QB...  but we need a QB with all of the tools to get us there.