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Next Day Thread: Lions Command Respect

KDawg

By KDawg
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KDawg

KDawg

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Coaching:

 

Let's start with the most talked about topic in the game day thread. Coaching. Many people want to put today entirely on the coaches. And lets be completely clear: There is a ton to blame the coaches for today.

 

Mayo on a receiver, Davis on St. Brown, running Gibson up the middle repeatedly, poor clock management, poor personnel packages, not being ready to account for Hutchinson coming into the game, not having a plan to catch and throw against a blitz heavy defense, not having a plan to contain St. Brown who is and has been a legitimate receiver, leaving backers on Swift, going for two, etc.

 

Our coaching today was not great. But folks, we also lack talent. And I suppose its semantics to argue that personnel isn't on coaching because our HC is our main decision maker. But I think you have to separate departments a little.

 

Today was a total team failure.

 

We had players running routes to exactly the same spot. No one schemes that. No one. A professional play caller doesn't scheme it and if he does there is no way it gets by every other professional football coach in the room. Zero chance. Someone ran the wrong route or had their timing skewed. Kendall Fuller struggled covering St. Brown on that touchdown. Our OL couldn't block a soul in the first half. Our defensive line is not good. We're strong at DT, we are at BEST mediocre at DE.  We shanked an extra point. We fair caught a punt inside the five. 

 

It was a combination of suck today.

 

Defense:

 

Our defense is atrocious. Fuller at least sometimes breaks up passes, but I'm not even sure what WJ3 has been doing. That first St. Brown touchdown was embarrassing. He was in perfect position, slips on nothing, then as he's getting up mistimes his jump and Brown catches the score and looks down at him like, "what the hell was that?"

 

Holcomb struggles getting off of blocks, gets caught flat footed in coverage and in run reads. He is a capable depth guy in the league but he is not a green dot backer in this league. 

 

Jamin Davis is improving. A few QB hits and a sack today. 

 

Our DEs were virtually invisible. Sweat got caught on the jet sweep crashing. Detroit got the edge all day.

 

Forrest gave nothing but effort all day and wound up with 10 tackles. Holcomb had 10 as well, but I'm not sure that I remember a single one of his. 

 

Bobby McCain was in trail position as a free safety all day.

 

DeAndre Swift caught a ball sitting down, got up, and still scored.

 

Just ugly. 

 

Offense:

 

Started entirely too slow. They couldn't block Hutch. They only found life when he was banged up and not in there.

 

Having said that, Wentz has been mostly good for us but absolutely has his Wentz moments. He throws high too often and that led to the pick today. Held the ball too long today at times and that led to sacks.

 

But he threw for 337 yards, 3 TD and 1 INT. For the season he has 650 yards, 7 TD, 3 INT.  He's on pace for 5,525 yards, 59 TD 26 INT. Obviously that won't be the pace he keeps but its hard to get too angry at Wentz. But he's not blameless today. He played poorly in the first half when he did have time.

 

Samuel, McLaurin and Dotson, though, there's not much if anything to complain about with any of them. Dotson adds another TD, Samuel adds 7 catches, 78 yards and a touchdown and McLaurin with 4 for 75. Going to be starting the McLaurin watch soon. He's almost #13 in team history for receiving yards. These guys catch, take hits, run with the ball, run good routes and make plays. This is a VERY bright spot.

 

Antonio Gibson: We figured out how to use him effectively last week. So naturally this week we go back to running him up the middle instead of using Jonathan Williams as the bruiser interior runner. That worked well. 14 carries. 28 yards. Yikes. McKissick had 3 for 9 but added 7 receptions for 54 yards. 

 

Our OL was on skates. They were saved when Hutch could barely walk.

 

Hutchinson had 3 sacks and 2 TFL in basically a half. He is everything we wanted Young to be. Absolute stud and by all accounts a good young man. Hate to see it against us but I'll be cheering for this kid the rest of his career. Very impressive. 

 

Studs and Duds:

 

*** - Aiden Hutchinson

** - Amon Ra St. Brown

* - DeAndre Swift

 

Wait, I have to pick Washington people for my schtick? I mean it is MY schtick, but I get it.

 

*** - Curtis Samuel

** - Terry McLaurin

* - Jahan Dotson

 

Honorable mention: Daron Payne

 

:( - Joey Slye

:( :( - Leno/Cosmi/Del Rio

:( :( :( - Cam Sims. I freely admit this probably isn't fair. But the play that I remember first when thinking about this game is that flea flicker and all I remember is watching the ball fly and Cam Sims just stopping and not even looking for the ball. When it lands he almost turns and looks at it like he's saying, "huh. He threw it that far. Interesting".

 

Season to date:

 

* x 3 - Daron Payne

* x 3 - Curtis Samuel

* x 3 - Jahan Dotson

* x 2  - Antonio Gibson

* x 2 - Terry McLaurin

* x 1 - Darrick Forrest

:( x 1 - Joey Slye

:( x 1 - Bobby McCain

:( x 1 - Scott Turner

:( x 2 - Charles Leno

:( x 2 - Sam Cosmi

:( x 3 - Cam Sims

:( x 4 - Jack Del Rio

 

 

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Warhead36

Warhead36

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Going into the game we said the guys we had to stop were St. Brown and Swift. Well, mission failed by the defense. That 3rd and 15 TD by Swift was most apalling. He literally falls down, gets up, and STILL makes like three guys miss and not only gets the 1st down but gets a TD. And ASB just had big play after big play. They were basically a two man show on offense.

 

The secondary is just really bad. WJ3 regularly looks lost and confused. I'm convinced he's the dumbest DB in the league. He can't do anything other than straight up man to man because that requires no brains. Fuller looks like he's lost a step. Juste is physical but has no speed. The Safeties are average(that should get better once Curl returns). 

 

 It was also very disappointing that our DL couldn't dominate a Lion OL missing three starters. All in all just an awful day by the defense, although Davis looked better than he has in the past if that's any consolation. Holcomb continues to be a ghost. 

 

Offensively we have the pieces to be good and I think we'll eventually be really good as long as Wentz doesn't throw up all over himself and the pass pro can hold up. The WRs are a legit scary trio and the RB and TE groups are above average once Robinson is in the lineup and Thomas gets his legs back(and if we can get Turner into the lineup). We got absolutely destroyed by Hutchinson and the Lion pass rush in the 1st half. They came out like gang busters and we couldn't find an answer until the 2nd half.

 

It was encouraging to see the offense mount a comeback though. I know people shout "prevent garbage time" but a sub 3 minute TD drive to open the 3rd quarter isn't garbage time. There were too many running plays of 2 or less yards though and just about every running play in the 4th quarter was basically a wasted play.

 

I don't think Turner called his best game today but I give him credit for getting things turned around in the 2nd half.  Wentz was mostly fine but had his bad moments as well but all in all, he's not the issue moving forward and I'm happy we have him(relative to what was available).

 

Special Teams had one of the worst games I've ever seen. Not being able to down that punt at the 1 INFURIATED me. Why the heck are you sprinting full speed and sliding at the ball? Just smack it backwards a little bit and it'll sit there downed at the 1 or 2. Just bad football IQ which goes back to coaching really. We also were regularly running kickoffs well short of the 25, heck some didn't even make the 20. Milne doesn't have the speed required to be a full time KR. And of course, missed XP. Way didn't have his best game either, we needed some cannon punts when we were pinned back to re-flip the field but instead he could only get to like the 40 ish yard line.

 

All in all it was an awful 1st half. 2nd half I think is more indicative of how this team will look: really good offense, mostly really bad defense. If we played even an average to mediocre 1st half I think we pull out a W in the 2nd half but instead we played one of the worst 1st halves I've EVER seen from this franchise and I've been a loyal fan since 1998. And I put that on the coaches for not having us prepared or ready to match the Lions intensity. 

 

Speaking of which, we should give credit to the Lions. MCDC has the guys playing hard and there is some legit talent on that team. By season's end I don't think this will be looked at as that bad of a loss. 

 

On to Philadelphia...

 

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bearrock

bearrock

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They had an atrocious defense last year.  It improved towards 2nd half of the season by playing Collins in BN.  So naturally they decide to run it back this year without Collins (a role that I'm not sure he could sustain for a season anyway).  Rivera screwed the season during the off-season by doing nothing to fix the defense on coaching or personnel.

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ColonialWBSkinsFan

ColonialWBSkinsFan

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@KDawg  You mentioned more than once in the game thread that "the Lions are just good"...  and that we should just accept the fact that they are a better and more talented team than we are.  Is that really your honest opinion?   The same Lions that have won like 6 games in the past 3 years and gave up 38 points to Philly last week less than halfway through the third quarter... ?  

 

They are just more talented than Washington?   It's that simple?   With two starting OL-men and a starting cornerback out today?   I respect the hell out of your posts and knowledge but I'm having a hard time with this one...

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Renegade7

Renegade7

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I'm not angry at all...shoulda expected Lions to try to and come out hard against us showing their game last week against Philly wasn't a fluke in how close they came to winning.

 

I said 9-8 for the season for a reason, this offense has made potential, is averaging 27 points per game.  When is last time we scored 27 points in a half?

 

There's no way they let that defense stay like and doing nothing about it, something is going to change, and it doesn't need to change much to keep out the way of the offense.

 

Biggest things we need to work on is slow starts and all the sudden lack of turnovers.  Those two things can make up for defense giving you points and yards. Because it can force teams out of their game plans. Like we need to against Philly next week.

 

That halftime adjust on offense was amazing, jus too late.

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KDawg

KDawg

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7 minutes ago, ColonialWBSkinsFan said:

@KDawg  You mentioned more than once in the game thread that "the Lions are just good"...  and that we should just accept the fact that they are a better and more talented team than we are.  Is that really your honest opinion?   The same Lions that have won like 6 games in the past 3 years and gave up 38 points to Philly last week less than halfway through the third quarter... ?  

 

They are just more talented than Washington?   It's that simple?   With two starting OL-men and a starting cornerback out today?   I respect the hell out of your posts and knowledge but I'm having a hard time with this one...

 They are more talented than us, yes. 
 

But they are maximizing talent. We aren’t. They are grit personified as cliche as it is. They live their mantra. That helps them max out.

 

To be more precise we may have more “talent” but they have better players as it stands.

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Wildbunny

Wildbunny

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2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

There's no way they let that defense stay like and doing nothing about it, something is going to change, and it doesn't need to change much to keep out the way of the offense.

It took them 8 weeks to address the problem on D last year.

 

And I don't see them making a huge change anytime soon.

Or you'll have Bostic at MLB. Which probably won't be an upgrade either.

 

We have a coaching staff and FO that is expecting different results with kinda the same personnel as last year on D.

Why are we expecting different results then?

Edited by Wildbunny
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No Nonsense

No Nonsense

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11 minutes ago, ColonialWBSkinsFan said:

@KDawg  You mentioned more than once in the game thread that "the Lions are just good"...  and that we should just accept the fact that they are a better and more talented team than we are.  Is that really your honest opinion?   The same Lions that have won like 6 games in the past 3 years and gave up 38 points to Philly last week less than halfway through the third quarter... ?  

 

They are just more talented than Washington?   It's that simple?   With two starting OL-men and a starting cornerback out today?   I respect the hell out of your posts and knowledge but I'm having a hard time with this one...


You be hard pressed to find a team in the NFL that has more talent than Washington on offense and we have a front 4 made up of 1st rounders. We have loads of talent. We’re just not a very good coached team. 
 

Bring Rivera back, it will be a wasted season.

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 They are more talented than us, yes. 
 

But they are maximizing talent. We aren’t. They are grit personified as cliche as it is. They live their mantra. That helps them max out.

 

To be more precise we may have more “talent” but they have better players as it stands.


Or are they just better coached? 

Edited by No Nonsense
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YourWish is MyCommanders

YourWish is MyCommanders

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I don’t think all is lost here. I think we can build off of this loss. We just have to know that the defense isn’t going to win games for us. This team is going to have to throw the ball a hell of a lot and We are also going to need the offense to carry us. Wentz and the boys can do it, but we need to start every game fast. 
I’m usually not very optimistic about this team, but I think we have the chance to win quite a few games. I’m excited to see the offense grow more. I also hope the defense can put together something that resembles a mediocre unit.

I figured we would lose this game 40-7 after the first half that we had. So, all in all…..the sky is not falling. I love the way they fought through the second half.

With that being said, there’s still a lot of work to do.

 

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KDawg

KDawg

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1 minute ago, No Nonsense said:


You be hard pressed to find a team in the NFL that has more talent than Washington on offense and we have a front 4 made up of 1st rounders. We have loads of talent. We’re just not a very good coached team. 
 

Bring Rivera back, it will be a wasted season.


Or are they just better coached? 


Maybe. But I don’t think coaching matters as much in the NFL as it does elsewhere.

 

I don’t think some of our players are as good as some people think they are.

 

Our receivers are high end. After that… eh. Wentz can be at times too. 
 

defensively we have Jon Allen. Payne is very good. After that… not much that is above average aside from Curl imo.

 

The Lions are better coached in the sense that they will run through a wall for their coach. Our players like our coach. There’s a difference.

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ColonialWBSkinsFan

ColonialWBSkinsFan

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2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

The Lions are better coached in the sense that they will run through a wall for their coach. Our players like our coach. There’s a difference.

 

Were they running through the wall for him last year when he once again went 3-13 (oh yeah and one tie)...?   Seems flimsy.  If our guys won't do the same, then we either need different guys or different coaches... probably both

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KDawg

KDawg

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9 minutes ago, ColonialWBSkinsFan said:

 

Were they running through the wall for him last year when he once again went 3-13 (oh yeah and one tie)...?   Seems flimsy.  If our guys won't do the same, then we either need different guys or different coaches... probably both

Yes. They were, actually. That team had a ton of fight and grit to them. They just didn’t have the talent developed and maximized. 
 

They are starting to see their culture change come into play. 
 

I’d argue we need a coaching staff or a coach in general that fire the players up and make them want to maim and destroy people. We have a bunch of guys that are well liked. Well, aside from one based on things we hear…

 

You won’t get an argument from me that a coaching change wouldn’t help. But conversely you won’t get me to say it will because the grass isn’t always greener and it could get worse.

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ColonialWBSkinsFan

ColonialWBSkinsFan

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1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Yes. They were, actually. That team had a ton of fight and grit to them. They just didn’t have the talent developed and maximized. 
 

They are starting to see their culture change come into play. 

 

Ok.  Point taken.  So the Detroit freakin' Lions, quite possibly the only franchise in the NFL that has been demonstrably worse than ours over the past two decades, somehow fell ass-backwards into the next Vince Lombardi and put together a front office and coaching staff that has turned the proverbial corner and will be a playoff contender this year?

 

Excuse me, I'm going to go light myself on fire now... 

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KDawg

KDawg

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Just now, ColonialWBSkinsFan said:

 

Ok.  Point taken.  So the Detroit freakin' Lions, quite possibly the only franchise in the NFL that has been demonstrably worse than ours over the past two decades, somehow fell ass-backwards into the next Vince Lombardi and put together a front office and coaching staff that has turned the proverbial corner and will be a playoff contender this year?

 

Excuse me, I'm going to go light myself on fire now... 

I wouldn’t say Lombardi. And they can still crash and burn for sure. But a guy that does up downs with his team, cares about them, loves the game, approaches every day enthusiastically and surrounds himself with a staff who feels the same does wonders for elevating talent to its maximum.

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Renegade7

Renegade7

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1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I've said this previously, Jay Gruden who is brutally honest said when asked in a podcast that Del Rio's defenses were among the easiest for him to prepare against because he doen't try to trick you, you know what they are going to do. 

 

 

 

 

 

200w (8).gif

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NoCalMike

NoCalMike

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So I'm watching the 49ers defense, and obviously they are better than our defense, but I was really trying to focus on what makes them a better defense against the pass   For the most part their front 7 rush the passer similar, a lot of pressure with occasional sacks. However, the big difference is that when they pressure the QB, their secondary compliments them by getting into position to break up passes and/or tackle the receiver right as the ball is caught.  It's like their secondary closes in on players and the zone they are covering, where as our pass coverage just passes the player along to someone else to cover.    Goff was under pressure plenty of times in this game, but it's like all he had to do was survive long enough to let go of the ball, and it ends up in the hands of someone wide open every time.    The secondary can't keep playing like this. 

 

If you ask me is it JDR or the personnel?  At this point I think it is a mix. 

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