😀😀 Ron fired days ago. Mission Accomplished.😀😄

[Conn]

Rivera being a lame duck HC next year, power to trade draft capital away stripped by the new owner in an evaluation year, unable to solve QB again and bottoming out around 4-5 wins in a strong QB year just as we bring in a new GM and coaching staff…that may be the ideal scenario for us under the new owner. 

[NoCalMike]

I don't think any coach is safe at this point, nor should they be.

[Conn]

Just now, NoCalMike said:

I don't think any coach is safe at this point, nor should they be.

Rivera probably makes some desperation changes as he heads into his final season—but who is going to fire Rivera? We won’t have a new owner in place in time to partake in the GM/HC carousel. It seems destined that Rivera will steward a lame duck evaluation year for the new owner. 
 

The wildcard possibility of course is that he could just up and retire. He looks more tired with crazier and crazier eyes every week at the podium, it’s not a fun team to coach, he never got back that pre-cancer vigor he had, and he just lost a parent. We may end up with some weird BS single-season bandaid coach if this happens, and you can be sure no one good or qualified will take a gig that’s instantly a lame duck quick fix. Hell, it’d probably be Del Rio lol. 

[Renegade7]

Just now, Conn said:

Rivera being a lame duck HC next year, power to trade draft capital away stripped by the new owner in an evaluation year, unable to solve QB again and bottoming out around 4-5 wins in a strong QB year just as we bring in a new GM and coaching staff…that may be the ideal scenario for us under the new owner. 

 

I don't agree with sabatoging the season jus for a chance at a QB.  That's a slap in the face to the entire roster.

 

Ron should be allowed to present his plan for QB, it be evaluated, and a decision made on what's best for the franchise as a whole.

 

We could also draft a bust, which can happen despite best intentions and even overhauled front office.  Have to get most out of each year and try to build on it, someone we can't miss in a QB draft love to hear about trading up for them given we'd be using future picks on a QB anyway until we get one.

 

If the fear is trading the farm so badly that we are screwed if who we trade up for is a bust, then that make my case in not throwing the season away and being convinced whoever is there for us to pick won't be either.

[Conn]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I don't agree with sabatoging the season jus for a chance at a QB.  That's a slap in the face to the entire roster.

 

Ron should be allowed to present his plan for QB, it be evaluated, and a decision made on what's best for the franchise as a whole.

 

We could also draft a bust, which can happen despite best intentions and even overhauled front office.  Have to get most out of each year and try to build on it, someone we can't miss in a QB draft love to hear about trading up for them given we'd be using future picks on a QB anyway until we get one.

 

If the fear is trading the farm so badly that we are screwed if who we trade up for is a bust, then that make my case in not throwing the season away and being convinced whoever is there for us to pick won't be either.

 

Who said sabotaging? I said he would be unable to solve the QB position again. I have no evidence that that isn’t a likely outcome no matter what plan he presents or enacts, he can’t find a QB. We’ll likely get a bandaid vet competing against Howell and another rookie. 
 

I said nothing about tanking—you projected that. Rivera would never do that. I said he’d likely not figure out QB and we’d likely have a poor season. I don’t see how that’s a stretch, especially if the ownership change keeps us from meaningfully partaking in FA, which is also a possibility.

 

In short, I wasn’t calling for a plan that should be enacted against Rivera. I was simply projecting a realistic worst-case scenario that could actually turn out to be a best-case scenario in the long run, all things considered. 

[Renegade7]

Just now, Conn said:

 

Who said sabotaging? I said he would be unable to solve the QB position again. I have no evidence that that isn’t a likely outcome no matter what plan he presents or enacts, he can’t find a QB. We’ll likely get a bandaid vet competing against Howell and another rookie. 
 

 

How is that not sabotaging the season when not having a QB nearly single handedly killed our season and has capped us around 7-9 for three years in a row now?

 

The whole beginning of your post I quoted read as eliminating one way to get someone like Jordan Love or Lamar Jackson and watch as he fails to make it work with bottom of the barrel remaining options. 

 

Just now, Conn said:

I said nothing about tanking—you projected that. Rivera would never do that. I said he’d likely not figure out QB and we’d likely have a poor season. I don’t see how that’s a stretch, especially if the ownership change keeps us from meaningfully partaking in FA, which is also a possibility.

 

I didn't project tanking, I projected handicapping what needs to be done at QB.  All options need to be on the table no matter who Head Coach is, owner also has the right to veto, but to not even allow the conversation if it involves trading picks is wrong, imo.

 

Just now, Conn said:

In short, I wasn’t calling for a plan that should be enacted against Rivera. I was simply projecting a realistic worst-case scenario that could actually turn out to be a best-case scenario in the long run, all things considered. 

 

Not the way I read it, but okay, I'll back off.

 

I cannot wrap my head around losing in order to win.  Good franchises don't do that, hoping for a high pick season is jus hoping for a shortcut. 

 

We should not be going under 7-9 with roster we had, we've been hovering around .500 without a QB for three years now, the obvious answer is keep trying every year until we get one, not taking a year off for a better chance the following year.  I cannot get down with that.

[Conn]

I don’t know how to simplify it more for you @Renegade7. Rivera will be unable to solve QB because he just obviously is unable to solve QB. That will inevitably lead to a poor season, just in time for a new GM and his new coaching staff hires to take advantage of a potentially strong QB class. It’s a silver lining prediction on what’s likely to be a miserable upcoming season—which we’ll all gladly endure if Snyder is gone. 
 

The fact that I said he shouldn’t be allowed to mortgage the future’s draft picks to try to get a QB, in a lame duck offseason while we’re between ownership groups, has nothing to do with handicapping him. It’s just common sense to protect the franchise. He had every option on the table this offseason and failed. No reason to think it won’t happen again no matter what his resources are. 
 

We’re about to be in a very rare situation: between owners, with a lame duck HC, right as the coaching carousel and Free Agency hit. Deciding what limitations (or not) should be put on Rivera is an obvious first order of business for the new owner, who won’t have enough time to get his people in place. You acting like Rivera should, as a matter of course, have every option on the table going into his fourth losing season to desperately try to solve QB is weird. I didn’t say he shouldn’t be able to do anything, but acting like he should be able to trade the farm to save his ass when we don’t even have a new owner yet is silly. 
 

I see in the other thread that you’re hoping we trade the farm for Lamar Jackson—which could obviously only happen if Rivera is allowed to do so. So I get where your stance is coming from. But it’s not likely to be realistic and you shouldn’t let it shape your entire viewpoint on the subject of this coming offseason/season. We are likely to be extremely hamstrung during this ownership change and I’m just attempting to show how that might, long term, actually end up being a silver lining type outcome. There are upsides to the situation, is all I’m pointing out. That’s all. 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Conn

[Spaceman Spiff]

28 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

I don't think any coach is safe at this point, nor should they be.

 

It has to be considered a collapse and coaches who preside over collapses typically don't fare well.

 

I'd like to see a new staff but with the sale and everything, I'm not sure what that means.  It's got a high probability to be a monkey wrench here.  

 

I can't stand Turner.  I don't understand how he can put together a 21 play, methodical drive that ends up in a touchdown and the next possession looks completely different.  Rivera is whatever but I think Turner's gotta be the one to go.  

[88Comrade2000]

36 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Yeah 2019 was exactly what the franchise needed 

We made all the wrongs moves in response to 2019; starting with hiring Ron.

41 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Big move for who if you don't want to trade for anyone?

 

There is a lot of fan speculation right now Ravens are jus being over protective of Lamar versus he actually can't play, he's 25, he's not falling apart RG3 style.

 

What I'd like to see is a contract that is a compromise between what he wants $ wise and garuntee money.  Like, I'm willing to give more garunteed money if he's willing to count less against the cap.

 

I'm not seeing the need for an elite QB here, jus someone that can extend plays and get the ball to our WRs on playaction.  We are clearly a run first football team, honestly believe we got Wentz because he was best we could get, not to throw the ball all over the place.  Scott may have, but Ron never did and Ron finally win thanks to emergence of Robinson to compliment Gibson.

 

 

Doesn’t matter what this team currently is. When the new coach likely comes in 24; he’ll revamp the team to what he wants and I doubt he runs what Ron/ Scott does.

[NoCalMike]

If Ron & Co has to go is it a help or hinderance for Snyder to do it on his way out or wait to allow the new ownership make the decision? As in, would new ownership prefer to avoid having to make that decision if possible and come in with a clean slate? 

[Conn]

Just now, NoCalMike said:

If Ron & Co has to go is it a help or hinderance for Snyder to do it on his way out or wait to allow the new ownership make the decision? As in, would new ownership prefer to avoid having to make that decision if possible and come in with a clean slate? 

I think it’ll be too late to matter, the offseason will be well underway and coaches will have made plans and found homes by then. Unless you only hire coaches who are currently unemployed, including assistants, I don’t see how it could work in a new owners’s favor. And that wouldn’t be a good idea. Unless every source is wrong on the timeline and new ownership takes their place before the Super Bowl. Don’t think that’s likely, and we’ve been lead to believe it’s pretty much impossible. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, Conn said:

I don’t know how to simplify it more for you @Renegade7. Rivera will be unable to solve QB because he just obviously is unable to solve QB. That will inevitably lead to a poor season, just in time for a new GM and his new coaching staff hires to take advantage of a potentially strong QB class. It’s a silver lining prediction on what’s likely to be a miserable upcoming season—which we’ll all gladly endure if Snyder is gone. 
 

The fact that I said he shouldn’t be allowed to mortgage the future’s draft picks to try to get a QB, in a lame duck offseason while we’re between ownership groups, has nothing to do with handicapping him. It’s just common sense to protect the franchise. He had every option on the table this offseason and failed. No reason to think it won’t happen again no matter what his resources are. 
 

We’re about to be in a very rare situation, between owners with a lame duck HC. Deciding what limitations (or not) should be put on him is an obvious first order of business for the new owner, who won’t have enough time to get his people in. You acting like Rivera should, as a matter of course, have every option on the table going into his fourth losing season to desperately try to solve QB is weird. I didn’t say he shouldn’t be able to do anything, but acting like he should be able to trade the farm to save his ass when we don’t even have a new owner yet is silly. 
 

I see in the other thread that you’re hoping we trade the farm for Lamar Jackson—which could obviously only happen if Rivera is allowed to do so. So I get where your stance is coming from. But it’s not likely to be realistic and you shouldn’t let it shape your entire viewpoint on the subject of this coming offseason/season. We are likely to be extremely hamstrung during this ownership change and I’m just attempting to show how that might, long term, actually end up being a silver lining type outcome. There are upsides to the situation, is all I’m pointing out. That’s all. 

 

The ****ty thing here is that I think we can all agree that there are a lot of good pieces on this team and that a great quarterback would have this team in a vastly different situation.  It's hard to look at this core and watch this year tick by without making the playoffs and then probably have another season tick by next year with this group without a franchise QB.  It's got the chance to be a lame duck coaching situation into early 2024.  

 

We can't pretend that it's just Ron who's been unable to solve the QB situation, it's been a problem here for decades, literally.  Each coach/GM here over that time has had their different respective issues in identifying a franchise quarterback but this has been a problem for generations now.  

 

In this case, I will tip my hat to Ron and his staff, he's been able to pick some players in the draft past the first round that have turned out to be really good.  I'm pretty down on Rivera and it's easy to say he won't be able to pick a quarterback but the fact that he's picked some good core guys in later rounds makes me think he's not all bad when it comes to evaluating talent.  Now I'm fully aware that quarterback is an entirely different beast...as noted, it's escaped everyone that's been here going back to the 90s.  So while he can identify a guy like Curl, I'm 50/50 on whether or not he can identify a QB in the draft.  Who knows, maybe he did with Howell and we'll be pleasantly surprised next weekend.

 

I don't believe he should be able to trade the farm to save his ass, but it sucks to see this group miss this year and they'll most likely miss the playoffs next year with this group making it closer to free agency after their rookie deals.

 

So you're right, it's a rare situation but I think the anxiety to find a QB here is amplified due to the fact that there's good talent here to build around.  I suppose there are some upsides in the fact that we don't know what we have with Howell and that they could take another QB in the upcoming draft who could pan out.  But you're right, Ron will be in ass saving mode and I'm fearful he's going to want to make a play for Derek Carr who should be a step or two up from what we currently have but almost certainly won't be the guy to save Ron.

 

Ron in ass-saving mode during an ownership change, IMO, isn't a positive situation unless he can finally crack the code to get a legit QB1 here.  Which, as history tells us, will be a monumental feat.  

[Renegade7]

@Conn

 

No need to simplify, and to clarify, I'm not advocating that Ron be given full permission to trade the farm to address QB like he has right now.

 

A new owner should have some discretion in this unique situation you're describing, call it meddling based on the nature of his contractz I call it a check on him having too much power in the first place.

 

Jackson is likely a pipe dream, Jordan Love is more likely and hopefully won't cost as much.   But who ever the new owner is, I want them to prioritize QB regardless of the HC.

 

For me, it's not so much about letting Ron save his job, what's best for the franchise is addressing QB and I'm not trying to wait for any offseason other then one we come out of realizing we don't have an answer to try and get one.

 

I do not consider what we're heading into an ideal situation at all because of all the question marks.  I want a middle ground between what's best for all parties, if Ron feels in anyway he's being prevented from addressing QB and QB being the reason he's let go, we won't hear the end of it.  Not how I want the new ownership to start off with.

 

 

26 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

 

Doesn’t matter what this team currently is. When the new coach likely comes in 24; he’ll revamp the team to what he wants and I doubt he runs what Ron/ Scott does.

 

Like Spurrier replacing Stephen Davis with Trung Candidate?

 

Please, enough talent on the roster to not need an overhaul, regardless of coaching philosophy.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Renegade7

[ExoDus84]

In the end, the football results of this game, and of this season, don't matter. 

 

If we can finally be rid of that festering anal wart Snyder, for good, then we just won the goddamn super bowl and this season will have been the best one we've had in 23 years. 

[petey hodge]

[Simmsy]

Lets ask Major Tuddy what we should do!

 

 

He says we have to check the tape! We'll finish strong! We'll get over the hump!

[CommanderInTheRye]

^ The perfect metaphor for this organization.

 

We **** all over ourselves and don't even bother to clean it up.

 

Then when asked about it we indignantly deny that the ****, that everyone can clearly see, is real.

[CjSuAvE22]

Are we frauds? We are 7-8-1 but it seems like we are far away from even being average all our wins felt lucky, oline lb are serious holes we also don’t have a good tight end . 

[R3dskinFan]

There will not be enough time to sell the team, hire GM & coaching staff prior to the April draft.  No coaches that would be worth having long term are going to come to this team because of the pending sale and unfortunately for that reason we are most likely stuck with RR and crew for 2023.  Cut Wentz, open up 28 million in cap space.  Resign Payne and then focus on OL and linebackers via free agents and draft.  Let Sam Howell and Heinicke compete in camp for the starting job in 2023.  Odds are both will end up starting multiple games over the course of the season due to injuries.  This will give the team an idea of what Howell brings to the table as far as long term viability.  This will most likely result in a season with 5-8 wins.  In 2024 new ownership can evaluate the GM & coaching staff and make changes.  Spending $$ or draft picks on a QB in 2023 with a lame duck coaching staff makes no sense.  I'm not happy about the thought of another year of this coaching staff either but in the interest of the long term success of this team, it is necessary.   

[lavar1156]

The new owner will have to fire everyone. Danny boy won't pay for all that.

[MrJL]

7 hours ago, Conn said:

Rivera being a lame duck HC next year, power to trade draft capital away stripped by the new owner in an evaluation year, unable to solve QB again and bottoming out around 4-5 wins in a strong QB year just as we bring in a new GM and coaching staff…that may be the ideal scenario for us under the new owner. 

 

the bottoming out is unlikely unless we start a UDFA at QB.  Cause in three years with Ron we've gotten 7 wins with Kyle Allen, one legged Alex Smith and Dwayne Haskins, 7 wins with Taylor Heinicke, and at least 7 wins and a tie with Carson Wentz and Taylor Heinicke (and Sam Howell?)

49 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Are we frauds? We are 7-8-1 but it seems like we are far away from even being average all our wins felt lucky, oline lb are serious holes we also don’t have a good tight end . 

 

a lot of wins in the modern NFL feel lucky.  It's a result of parity.  If you win a one score game it pretty much automatically means one play made the difference.  And how is that not supposed to be lucky?

[CjSuAvE22]

7 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

a lot of wins in the modern NFL feel lucky.  It's a result of parity.  If you win a one score game it pretty much automatically means one play made the difference.  And how is that not supposed to be lucky?

Yes I agree but the average team will occasionally have a blowout game l, which we never have it’s like we are in capable of putting a game away 

[skinsmania123]

47 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Are we frauds? We are 7-8-1 but it seems like we are far away from even being average all our wins felt lucky, oline lb are serious holes we also don’t have a good tight end . 

Absolutely. We won a number of games where I think we just got outplayed and had to rely on these come from behind, last minute wins, against teams like the falcons, colts and bears. And I understand the "win at all costs mentality" but those types of wins are unsustainable.  So, in effect., we just regressed to the mean.  Think about it.  If we had won just one game against the Giants, and the first one was very winnable, we would be playing for something against Dallas.  Yesterday, was a combination of the first 5 games for me. Poor coaching decisions. Poor execution. Poor tackling. Porous O line and a QB, that honestly looks like he is mentally shot. Like he has PTSD or something. Wentz is done. 

[MrJL]

11 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

Absolutely. We won a number of games where I think we just got outplayed and had to rely on these come from behind, last minute wins, against teams like the falcons, colts and bears. And I understand the "win at all costs mentality" but those types of wins are unsustainable.  So, in effect., we just regressed to the mean.  Think about it.  If we had won just one game against the Giants, and the first one was very winnable, we would be playing for something against Dallas.  Yesterday, was a combination of the first 5 games for me. Poor coaching decisions. Poor execution. Poor tackling. Porous O line and a QB, that honestly looks like he is mentally shot. Like he has PTSD or something. Wentz is done. 

 

if they were really unsustainable then wh does every team have some of them?

[skinsmania123]

6 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

if they were really unsustainable then wh does every team have some of them?

My point is, yes, every team has some, but you can't have them as the majority of your wins, which Washington seemed to do this year. I just think that sort of winning is unsustainable in the long run.  So, we really are an 8-8-1 team, or a 7-8-1 team.