The All Things 2022 OTAs/Training Camp Thread

[DiscoBob]

1 hour ago, NickyJ said:

Cam Sims is Ryan Grant material. 

 

Welcome to the board Jay, how's Chucky doin?

Edited August 5, 2022 by DiscoBob

[Voice_of_Reason]

47 minutes ago, KDawg said:

But I can see a world where Brown is left off, Turner makes it in his place as a flex guy. 

I can’t see that world.

 

I can see Cam competing against TE’s for a spot.  And I can absolutely see where he doesn’t make the team.

 

I think Brown is a stone cold dead lock.

[Koolblue13]

34 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I can’t see that world.

 

I can see Cam competing against TE’s for a spot.  And I can absolutely see where he doesn’t make the team.

 

I think Brown is a stone cold dead lock.

Brown and Cam are locks I'd say. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

47 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Brown and Cam are locks I'd say. 

@KDawg has a really good point about the number of TEs, and the fact there are a lot of them that can do a lot of the same things Cam can do, and they are younger, maybe have higher ceilings, and definitely cheaper.  

 

McLaurin, Dotson, Samuel, Brown + Returner (Milne or Erickson?) seem to be the "locked" 5.  Now, the question is, how many TEs do you carry? Part of that depends on if Thomas is on a list or available for the beginning of the season.  Let's say he's available:  Thomas, Bates, Turner are locks.  You still have several really good depth TEs that can play.  They seem to really like Rodgers and Hodges.  Now, could they keep one and put one on the PS?  Almost certainly.  You don't NEED 5 TEs on the active roster.  But I bet they carry 4 and sneak one to the practice squad.

 

So, math:

QB = 3

WR = 5

TE = 4

RB = 3

OL = 10

That's 25.  Now, do they carry 10 OL on the active roster?  I dunno. 

 

Lucas, Norwell, Rouiller, Turner, Cosmi, Leno, Schweitzer, Larsen are locks, assuming health.  That's 8, 5 starters, 1 swing tackle backup (Leno), backup swing guard (either Turner or Schweitzer, whoever isn't starting), and backup center, Larsen.  Almost certainly they will have another backup interior guy, maybe Charles, and another backup tackle.  So I think they have 10 OL on the active roster when all is said and done.

 

If you go by that math, there is no room for Cam Sims if you're shooting for a 25/25/3 breakdown of offense/defense/ST.  

 

Now, would they choose Cam over Rodgers or Hodges?  Maybe.  Maybe they try and get both to the PS.  Or maybe Thomas is on PUP or IR to start the year, and that opens up a spot. Or Cam is competing against the last CB or LB on the team also, and that opens up a 26th offensive spot. 

 

This is why I keep saying IF Howell beats TH out for the backup job, they could get one more precious roster spot for either a WR or TE.  Again, I don't think they will do that, I think they'd take TH over Rodgers, Hodges and Cam.  But you never know.  

 

[Conn]

I’m happy enough with our young top WRs and young TEs to the point that I’d be fine signing a vet WR to battle with Dyami and Sims. We need to give Wentz the best chance to succeed and if McLaurin or Dotson (or more likely Samuel) miss time I really don’t want Brown/Sims playing significant starters reps on the outside again if they aren’t ready. I’m not asking for a high expectations/big personality type like OBJ. Just a solid vet. Even an Emmanuel Sanders type would make me feel more comfortable. Hilton. Fuller would be a dream despite his injury issues. Just someone who knows what the hell they’re doing in critical situations, to fill in when the better younger players ahead of them miss snaps.

Edited August 5, 2022 by Conn

[Jericho]

3 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

Our WR depth is atrocious. Somehow, thankfully, our TE depth is the opposite. I can see us keeping only 5 WR's and loading up on extra TE's.

 

I don't think you can claim TE depth when the best guy you have is a 1.5 year starter with 125 career receptions coming off an ACL tear and literally everyone else on the roster has combined for 20 catches in their career. And the highest draft pick in the bunch is a fourth rounder. There's youth and potential there, but let's no get ahead of ourselves. It's entirely possible none of them pan out. I hope that's not the case, but let see someone prove it first.

[Cooleyfan1993]

Who’s going to saturdays stadium practice?

[Conn]

I agree, I don’t know that we can call it “depth” yet because the potential of the group may not lend itself to usability in the short term. I prefer to say that we have a good talent pipeline at TE, at least. I think that gets the point across

[NickyJ]

All this talk about Turner, Rodger, and Hodges behind Bates and Thomas.

 

This is Sammis Reyes now after hearing all his hype last season.

[FootballZombie]

14 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

This is Sammis Reyes now after hearing all his hype last season.

 

His biggest problem will be staying healthy. Big if, but if he does that and he's got a shot.

 

He has already made the roster before, has been a proven ST player and can go out and p-cake a guy blocking.

 

I'm just not sure if he will get thru preseason unscathed.

[Commander Wolffe]

I dont think Cam is a lock. Offensively he can be replaces by a TE. On ST, butler and Apke are better gunners.

 

I think we keep 4 TEs with our without Thomas on the PUP list.

[Koolblue13]

In two years we've signed 2 FAs and drafted 2 WRs and we still have no depth at the position to the point were talking about replacing WR5 with a TE. 

 

A team that really wants to go down field a lot loading up on TEs doesn't make a ton of sense. Although it's good for Wentz given his propensity to feed the position. 

[KDawg]

8 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

In two years we've signed 2 FAs and drafted 2 WRs and we still have no depth at the position to the point were talking about replacing WR5 with a TE. 

 

A team that really wants to go down field a lot loading up on TEs doesn't make a ton of sense. Although it's good for Wentz given his propensity to feed the position. 

I don't think this is a fair take, though.

 

Cole Turner is a big bodied target that runs good routes and gets himself open, has a large catch radius and excellent hands. And, to be fair, IS more of a receiver than he is a tight end.

 

Really we're talking about taking away a potential down field threat (Is Cam Sims really a downfield threat, though?) for a big body safety valve.

 

Ultimately I think our receiver group is McLaurin, Dotson, Samuels, Milne, Brown, Turner (He'll probably be listed as a tight end because $). Thomas, Bates, Hodges/Rodgers as the tight ends. 

 

They'll hope whichever TE doesn't make it (include Reyes there) makes it through waivers and on the PS.

[Koolblue13]

15 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don't think this is a fair take, though.

 

Cole Turner is a big bodied target that runs good routes and gets himself open, has a large catch radius and excellent hands. And, to be fair, IS more of a receiver than he is a tight end.

 

Really we're talking about taking away a potential down field threat (Is Cam Sims really a downfield threat, though?) for a big body safety valve.

 

Ultimately I think our receiver group is McLaurin, Dotson, Samuels, Milne, Brown, Turner (He'll probably be listed as a tight end because $). Thomas, Bates, Hodges/Rodgers as the tight ends. 

 

They'll hope whichever TE doesn't make it (include Reyes there) makes it through waivers and on the PS.

Roger's is the same size as Cam, right? 225lbs 6'5". 

 

What's the difference? Speed? I doubt either can block.

 

Turner has been a TE and successful at it. Hes a TE. 

 

We gave Cam a decent contract and he was training in the offseason with those guys in CA. I think hes part of the plan. Hes also good in a pitch, just not the easy stuff.

 

I see us going 26 on offense and carrying 6 WR and 4 TEs, before I see us trying to only have 5 WRs.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

Roger's is the same size as Cam, right? 225lbs 6'5". 

 

What's the difference? Speed? I doubt either can block.

 

Turner has been a TE and successful at it. Hes a TE. 

 

We gave Cam a decent contract and he was training in the offseason with those guys in CA. I think hes part of the plan. Hes also good in a pitch, just not the easy stuff.

 

I see us going 26 on offense and carrying 6 WR and 4 TEs, before I see us trying to only have 5 WRs.

 

Difference is Rogers has Logan Thomas potential. New to the position, converted QB and a ton of potential vs. Cam Sims who has been in the league forever and is among the highest options in the league as a #5ish receiver... but doesn't offer a whole lot else. So do you take the potential of Rogers or the proven commodity and understand he is what he is in Sims?

 

If I were in charge I wouldn't keep Sims... of course the saving grace is always personal connection with the coaching staff so if I were there and had that it might be harder for me to say. But looking at this I'd rather go with the potential of a Rogers vs. Sims.

 

But I'm not watching every play in camp, either. If Rogers is having plays where you say, "wtf was that?" fairly often, theyw on't keep him over Sims. 

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Difference is Rogers has Logan Thomas potential. New to the position, converted QB and a ton of potential vs. Cam Sims who has been in the league forever and is among the highest options in the league as a #5ish receiver... but doesn't offer a whole lot else. So do you take the potential of Rogers or the proven commodity and understand he is what he is in Sims?

 

If I were in charge I wouldn't keep Sims... of course the saving grace is always personal connection with the coaching staff so if I were there and had that it might be harder for me to say. But looking at this I'd rather go with the potential of a Rogers vs. Sims.

 

But I'm not watching every play in camp, either. If Rogers is having plays where you say, "wtf was that?" fairly often, theyw on't keep him over Sims. 

Outside of the top 2 at WRs, we have injury concerns and potential nobodies at the position, so I absolutely take the WR we know what we have over the potential of our 4rth or 5th TE that can probably be stashed on the PS.

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

His biggest problem will be staying healthy. Big if, but if he does that and he's got a shot.

 

He has already made the roster before, has been a proven ST player and can go out and p-cake a guy blocking.

 

I'm just not sure if he will get thru preseason unscathed.

No, his biggest problem is he is stiff and does not catch the ball well.  This was on a pod, maybe Keim, that he's just really not natural catching the ball at all.  

 

Add to that the health problems, he's destined for the PS, where I think they could get him to this year.  If he's not just outright released.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

In two years we've signed 2 FAs and drafted 2 WRs and we still have no depth at the position to the point were talking about replacing WR5 with a TE. 

 

A team that really wants to go down field a lot loading up on TEs doesn't make a ton of sense. Although it's good for Wentz given his propensity to feed the position. 

See, I give Brown a total mulligan for last year.  He was a third round draft pick who played well at NC, and then was inserted into a horrendous possition.  What he did well, the QB could not throw.  He was drafted to be the 3rd WR, slot/extend the field guy, then Samuel missed the entire season, and he was really the only other guy out there, and he drew more coverage he wasn't ready for.

 

I think having a top 4 of McLaurin, who's a top 10-ish receiver, Samuel, who IF HEALTHY, is a solid slot/gadget guy, and Dotson, who looks great at camp + the prospect of Brown is pretty good.

 

After that, it gets very sketchy.  Hump was kindof the next guy last year, this year it might be Milne.  Cam Sims was extended at a $2.5m for 1 year rate.  Clearly they kindof like him.

 

There are not a lot of WR groups that go 1-5 and are all proven, outstanding players. 

 

The question is Samuel.  If he's available, the group looks REALLY good.  If he's not, it looks really shallow.

[Warhead36]

The WRs are and TEs are mostly potential besides McLaurin. They could both be really good units but we gotta see it first.

[Bantu]

With Samuel's injury concerns, Dyami's (alleged) lack of development, along with them being non factors on special teams bodes well for Cam Sims to make the roster and more importantly, be active on gamedays.

[Koolblue13]

14 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

See, I give Brown a total mulligan for last year.  He was a third round draft pick who played well at NC, and then was inserted into a horrendous possition.  What he did well, the QB could not throw.  He was drafted to be the 3rd WR, slot/extend the field guy, then Samuel missed the entire season, and he was really the only other guy out there, and he drew more coverage he wasn't ready for.

 

I think having a top 4 of McLaurin, who's a top 10-ish receiver, Samuel, who IF HEALTHY, is a solid slot/gadget guy, and Dotson, who looks great at camp + the prospect of Brown is pretty good.

 

After that, it gets very sketchy.  Hump was kindof the next guy last year, this year it might be Milne.  Cam Sims was extended at a $2.5m for 1 year rate.  Clearly they kindof like him.

 

There are not a lot of WR groups that go 1-5 and are all proven, outstanding players. 

 

The question is Samuel.  If he's available, the group looks REALLY good.  If he's not, it looks really shallow.

I agree with all of that. I've been defending Brown as a great WR4, even if 9 routes is all he does well.

 

My point is that Cam as WR4/5/6 is more important than TE 5.

 

Agree that Samuel is key. With him, our top 3 could be the most dynamic in the league. Without him and if Dotson doesn't ball out, WR starts looking really bad again and Cams stock soars again.

 

If the top 3 do go off and stay healthy, than WR5/6 and TE4/5 dont matter anyway.

 

If its Terry and nothing, who cares if we have 5 young very similar off ball TEs. Might as well let Heinicke start again.

[method man]

10 hours ago, Conn said:

I’m happy enough with our young top WRs and young TEs to the point that I’d be fine signing a vet WR to battle with Dyami and Sims. We need to give Wentz the best chance to succeed and if McLaurin or Dotson (or more likely Samuel) miss time I really don’t want Brown/Sims playing significant starters reps on the outside again if they aren’t ready. I’m not asking for a high expectations/big personality type like OBJ. Just a solid vet. Even an Emmanuel Sanders type would make me feel more comfortable. Hilton. Fuller would be a dream despite his injury issues. Just someone who knows what the hell they’re doing in critical situations, to fill in when the better younger players ahead of them miss snaps.

Sims is the veteran guy who can step in and not crap over himself if he gets starters reps. The current depth at WR is fine

[HigSkin]

 

[CobraCommander]

7 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

His biggest problem will be staying healthy. Big if, but if he does that and he's got a shot.

 

He has already made the roster before, has been a proven ST player and can go out and p-cake a guy blocking.

 

I'm just not sure if he will get thru preseason unscathed.

I'm pretty sure Sammis Reyes biggest problem is that he's not a football player. He was barely a basketball player at Tulane. He's a physical specimen but that doesn't always translate to being a great sportsketballer.

[HigSkin]

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by HigSkin