2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[skinsfan66]

6 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Kiper has Deonte Banks and Emmanuel Forbes in the first round, but not Cam Smith or Kelee Ringo.  Interesting.

 

This CB class is all over the place.  CBs 1-10 rankings are completely up for grabs, but I do see some consensus forming around Witherspoon as CB1.  Let's see what he runs at the combine to determine if that consensus lasts.  I have a feeling Ringo and Gonzalez are going to kill the 40 and get people to rethink them.

Kind of like the WR classes the last several years, you can get them in Mutiple rds. What's up with the WR's seems to be a down year after some great ones? CB's need to have more size these days to contend with these big WRs. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Emil Ekiyor, guard Alabama. 4th round range I'd be interested.  Good player not blown away but good enough.

 

Watched two games, one was the game versus Georgia last year, you can see as I stated in another thread that Robinson was faster then versus now so IMO he will be better next season with an off season to recover from the gun shot wounds. 

 

Solid guard.  Consistent from what I saw.  I like Torrence and Mauch if moved to guard by at least a clear peg above though but those players are going to go earlier.

 

The Texas game was fun to rewatch, Texas just blew up Alabama's O line with blitzes.  Ekiyor was OK though in that game.

 

On twitter he gets touted for his physicality.  Not bad in the two games I watched but not blown away by him on that front like I was for example by Mauch in the run game. But Emil has moments and is physical enough. They use him on the move, pulling.  Not bad at the 2nd level.  Mirrors well.  Active hands.  Picks up stunts.  Stout in pass protection but defenders at times got by him.  So he's far from a wall on that front but mostly played well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

43 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Kiper has Deonte Banks and Emmanuel Forbes in the first round, but not Cam Smith or Kelee Ringo.  Interesting.

 

This CB class is all over the place.  CBs 1-10 rankings are completely up for grabs, but I do see some consensus forming around Witherspoon as CB1.  Let's see what he runs at the combine to determine if that consensus lasts.  I have a feeling Ringo and Gonzalez are going to kill the 40 and get people to rethink them.

 

 

He also has JSN going 13 to the Jets (I think they would take Mayer over him personally).  Assuming JSN, Mayer, Paris Johnson, and Skronk are all gone, I figure we take best CB available unless Jones is on the board.

 

I think the real wildcard is who takes Bijon?  He's been consensus as a top 10 talent in this draft.  At some point you have to go BPA if a team rates him that highly.

 

Kiper also has Bressee falling.  Maybe he's hearing teams are concerned with the injury issues?

Edited January 26, 2023 by mhd24

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, Going Commando said:

Kiper has Deonte Banks and Emmanuel Forbes in the first round, but not Cam Smith or Kelee Ringo.  Interesting.

 

This CB class is all over the place.  CBs 1-10 rankings are completely up for grabs, but I do see some consensus forming around Witherspoon as CB1.  Let's see what he runs at the combine to determine if that consensus lasts.  I have a feeling Ringo and Gonzalez are going to kill the 40 and get people to rethink them.

 

Seems like the consenus is Witherspoon, Porter and Gonzlaez in some order are the top 3.  The ones after i noiticed are a bit all over the place. 

 

The idea that Gonzalez in particular is going to kill the 40 and combine in general seems baked in the cake some with him.  Most I notice see that as a given.  

 

To some extent Ringo too but I notice with some dratniks they thought he got beat too many times last season to ignore

Edited January 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, mhd24 said:

Kiper also has Bressee falling.  Maybe he's hearing teams are concerned with the injury issues?

 

Jeremiah doesn't have him in his first either I think.  That's now two of the most prominent mock drafters that are out on Bresee.  I'm sensing a mega value pick incoming, kind of like how Jaelan Phillips's draft stock cratered after he dealt with injuries.  He still went in the first round, but maybe people don't remember that he was the #1 player in his HS class and touted as a future top five pick like Bresee.  I've learned to see opportunity when the NFL suddenly and somewhat inexplicably moves off of super blue chippers who were stars in college.  It's also weird how the NFL always underestimates Clemson IDLs, even though they end up being the best NFL players that the program produces.  Bresee is a super athlete too, so it's not like he's a "greater than the sum of his parts" grinder like Grady Jarrett was.  Bresee is 6'5 310 and benches 435 and has supposedly run the 40 in the 4.7s.

 

I honestly think he'd be a value pick 16, but if he's gonna fall, I would let it play out into the late first or early second round before I'd move around to snag him.  And I would definitely work to trade up for him in that range (or trade back from 16), because I think he's one of the elite players of the class.  And if we get him, then we could straight up deal DaRon before the season and not necessarily experience a drop off on D.

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Seems like the consenus is Witherspoon, Porter and Gonzlaez in some order are the top 3.  The ones after i noiticed are a bit all over the place. 

 

The idea that Gonzalez in particular is going to kill the 40 and combine in general seems baked in the cake some with him.  Most I notice see that as a given.  

 

To some extent Ringo too but I notice with some dratniks they thought he got beat too many times last season to ignore. 

 

I actually don't think their athletic traits have been baked into their stock yet.  Ringo ran a 10.43 100 M in high school.  He is probably going to run low 4.3 at 6'2 215.  If that happens, there is no way he falls out of the top 20 picks.  Bad film or no, Tariq Woolen traits and an elite pedigree will get him picked high.  Teams have shown a lot of ability to coach up raw and traitsy corner prospects recently.

 

Gonzalez is an even better athlete than him too, arguably.  He has a 42 inch vertical and he can probably run 4.3 too, but should at least run 4.40.  He's taller and a better athlete than Jaycee Horn was, and I think he's going to get a 10 RAS.  I think he's going to be CB1 and go in the top ten once he gets some official numbers out there.  6'2 200 with great flexibility and elite speed and jumping ability plus good film.  He's gonna climb and be considered one of the elite prospects of the class as happened with Horn.

[illone]

Sticking with my Gonzalez pick for now. I saw DJ agrees with me. 
 

😎

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

I actually don't think their athletic traits have been baked into their stock yet.  Ringo ran a 10.43 100 M in high school.  He is probably going to run low 4.3 at 6'2 215.  If that happens, there is no way he falls out of the top 20 picks.  Bad film or no, Tariq Woolen traits and an elite pedigree will get him picked high.  Teams have shown a lot of ability to coach up raw and traitsy corner prospects recently.

 

Gonzalez is an even better athlete than him too, arguably.  He has a 42 inch vertical and he can probably run 4.3 too, but should at least run 4.40.  He's taller and a better athlete than Jaycee Horn was, and I think he's going to get a 10 RAS.  I think he's going to be CB1 and go in the top ten once he gets some official numbers out there.  6'2 200 with great flexibility and elite speed and jumping ability plus good film.  He's gonna climb and be considered one of the elite prospects of the class as happened with Horn.

 

By baked in I mean just about any podcast or item I read about the players especially Gonzalez talks about how he's an athletic freak, might run 4.3 in the combine, etc.  Seems like plenty are expecting it versus anyone being surprised by it if it happens.

 

As for Ringo, people seem to accept his athleticism but wonder about him giving up too many big plays last year in spite of it.  Granted though he's not as hyped as Gonzalez on that front so maybe in his case it would be a mild surprise, albiet #6 on the freaks list so I gather not much of a surprise either.  Brugler among others when he references Ringo talked about "elite size/elite speed"

Edited January 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

DJ Turner.  6 foot 180 pounds.  Good PFF scores across the board for two seasons in a row.  I am surprised he's not hyped more.  He doesn't even make Kiper's top 17 list at CB, he's 11 on Brugler's list.  Talk about a deep draft for that spot.   

 

Outside corner and slot. They play him on both sides.

 

Speaking of the freaks list if he runs as fast as he looks might be a riser, 2nd roundish.  I like him a lot in the context of the next tier CBs but I admit i got of lot more watching to do, I am much further along with the O lineman.

 

Watched two games. He played mostly played off coverage.  You can see his speed on display multiple times including chasing down from well behind a Penn State player darting to the end zone.  Comes charging like a rocket to the QB on a blitz which they did a bunch of times in that game.

 

In tigher spaces, red zone, he was hip to hip, sticky on the WR.

 

Falls for some double moves.  Gave up a big play in the Penn State game I watched but he was right on top of the WR. 

 

Feels like he loves using his speed in a showoff way, but in a good way, chasing scrambiling QBs and makes open field tackles, he sometimes misses.  

 

Watched him versus Ohio State, not a killer game but held his own which isn't easy to do especially facing Marvin Harrison as often as he did.

 

Feisty player, against the run game too, plays with fire.   If we are talking traits, this dude oozes them. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Rolo Tomasie]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

DJ Turner.  6 foot 180 pounds.  Good PFF scores across the board for two seasons in a row.  I am surprised he's not hyped more.  He doesn't even make Kiper's top 17 list at CB, he's 11 on Brugler's list.  Talk about a deep draft for that spot.   

 

Outside corner and slot. They play him on both sides.

 

Speaking of the freaks list if he runs as fast as he looks might be a riser, 2nd roundish.  I like him a lot in the context of the next tier CBs but I admit i got of lot more watching to do, I am much further along with the O lineman.

 

Watched two games. He played mostly played off coverage.  You can see his speed on display multiple times including chasing down from well behind a Penn State player darting to the end zone.  Comes charging like a rocket to the QB on a blitz which they did a bunch of times in that game.

 

In tigher spaces, red zone, he was hip to hip, sticky on the WR.

 

Falls for some double moves.  Gave up a big play in the Penn State game I watched but he was right on top of the WR. 

 

Feels like he loves using his speed in a showoff way, but in a good way, chasing scrambiling QBs and makes open field tackles, he sometimes misses.  

 

Watched him versus Ohio State, not a killer game but held his own which isn't easy to do especially facing Marvin Harrison as often as he did.

 

Feisty player, against the run game too, plays with fire.   If we are talking traits, this dude oozes them. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ron and Jack love the CBs who ace the 3 cone, shuttle, change-of-direction metrics.

[Chump Bailey]

37 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

DJ Turner.  6 foot 180 pounds.  Good PFF scores across the board for two seasons in a row.  I am surprised he's not hyped more.  He doesn't even make Kiper's top 17 list at CB, he's 11 on Brugler's list. 

 

Turner's #11 on SI's/Draft Bible's rankings. I'm eager to check him out. I'm not looking forward to try and rank my top ten for this group, however. So many good looking prospects  

[Chump Bailey]

CB, for me, is the hardest to evaluate. I've only begun looking at them but as @KDawg already mentioned in his top 10 list, Syracuse's Garrett Williams is an interesting looking prospect that will likely rise especially if he shows out at the NFL Combine. I think Garrett would make a fantastic FS. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Umm...that 3 cone is insane. Those numbers are blowing my mind. If he has skills to back it up, even partially, you have to take a chance on him

[Skinsinparadise]

25 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Umm...that 3 cone is insane. Those numbers are blowing my mind. If he has skills to back it up, even partially, you have to take a chance on him

 

He looks that twitchy to my eyes watching him. 

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Riley Moss.  Iowa, CB.  6 '1, 193 pounds.   Outside corner.   Another on the freaks list.  Intriguing for me.  I think though I'd go Turner over Moss from the games I watched.  Turner to me is more twitchy.  But Moss comes off a good prospect.  3rd roundish?  Watched just one game and a half. 

 

7 career picks. 3 pick 6's.   2 force fumbles this season.  So he's a playmaker.

 

Type of leader-personality that I think will be up Rivera's alley

 

Played mostly off coverage in the two games i watched.  Bltizes.  Physical as you'd expect from an Iowa player against the run.   Good recognition skills overall in both the pass game and run game, he peels off his assignment at times when he diagnoses a run play.

 

Sticky enough in pass coverage though he doesn't jump out to me on that front.  Really long legs -- hurdle champion.  Really good long speed. 

 

 

Riley Moss growing from great player to great leader in fifth season

Defensive coordinator Phil Parker said Moss could see even more improvements.

“Usually if you have a guy that’s the defensive back of the year in the Big Ten he might want to slack off, but I’ve seen him in meeting rooms, in off-season programs, working his butt off to do better,” Parker said. “He was (relying) in the first couple years on his athletic ability, and now he’s taking steps forward understanding the game.”

“Every good team needs a good group of leaders,” Moss said. “It’s cool to take over that role and give back to younger guys.”

 

https://www.kcrg.com/2022/08/13/riley-moss-growing-great-player-great-leader-fifth-season/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[zCommander]

@Skinsinparadise Riley Moss tore his PCL about a year ago. I know it is not bad as an ACL but still is that a concern? He is also a year older too, will be 23 in March. 

[Warhead36]

CBs appear to be this year's stacked class. I could see us trying to trade down and take what's left of the 1st round talent, similar to how we addressed WR with Dotson last year.

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, zCommander said:

@Skinsinparadise Riley Moss tore his PCL about a year ago. I know it is not bad as an ACL but still is that a concern? He is also a year older too, will be 23 in March. 

 

He played all season and seemed fine. He's in the Senior Bowl so will see him in action soon enough.   

 

Nagy thinks he will run a 4.3, wow, he looks fast but not that level fast when I watch him.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

CBs appear to be this year's stacked class. I could see us trying to trade down and take what's left of the 1st round talent, similar to how we addressed WR with Dotson last year.

 

Agree, that's what I said the other day.  The question though is who is trading up?  but hopefully we got a trading partner.  Lets say we trade down and accumulate a 3rd and 4th like last year.  I think with the first we would be covered in a trade down.   Wonder how good 47 is at CB and OT?

 

So many of this next tier of guys both at tackle and CB feel like late first rounders, early 2nd.  But some I'd guess have to fall through the cracks just in terms of sheer numbers to land at 2nd.

 

At tackle for example, I am not chasing tackle #4 at 16.  I'd love Darnell Wright, Anton Harrison, Cody Mauch (who feels more like a guard) or Bergeron at 47 but will they be there?  

 

Or at corner am guessing Banks, Ringo, C. Smith, Forbes are gone by 47.   But I'd dig DJ Turner around that spot.  

 

Judging by mocks, which granted could be off.  Assuning they are locked in to just tackle or CB.   16 might be the tail end of getting the last or 2nd of the perceived top 3 corners -- Witherspoon, Gonzalez, Porter.  And maybe the last of the top 3 tackles.

 

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree, that's what I said the other day.  The question though is who is trading up? 

 

 

Never really know how the process plays itself out. Last year we had multiple teams wanting to trade up, but we were at 11 and there were a few blue chippers at our spot(Hamilton, Olave etc.). Who knows who falls to 16. What if Anthony Richardson is there? I could see a team like the Vikings move up for him, get a talented QB to develop while Cousins holds the fort for another year or two.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Never really know how the process plays itself out. Last year we had multiple teams wanting to trade up, but we were at 11 and there were a few blue chippers at our spot(Hamilton, Olave etc.). Who knows who falls to 16. What if Anthony Richardson is there? I could see a team like the Vikings move up for him, get a talented QB to develop while Cousins holds the fort for another year or two.

 

Agree its unpredictable.  I recall hearing the year we had 19 there was no interest from other teams for our pick.   But last year there was with the Saints offering the most.

 

I am guessing if the league sees the top CBs, the same as most mock drafters -- if Witherspoon, Gonzalez or Porter is still there, a team might trade up regardless of the depth at that spot.  Similar to WR last year.

[Skinsinparadise]

Tyrique Stevenson, CB, 6 '0, 214, one of the thicker CBs weight wise in this class, yet he still moves fluidly.  Combine should be interesting for him.   Another good player.

 

Could just find one game and then watched highlights.

 

Outside corner, played on both sides.  Physical player.  A bit grabby and will get penalized in the NFL for that style. Press corner and off coverage.   Sticky enough in coverage. 

 

Had 2 picks this season.  PFF doesn't love him in run defense, he looked fine to me though but can be a bit sloppy when he tackles.  But IMO he has plenty of potential in run defense because he seems to like contact. 

 

Jeremiah is a big fan.  Both Brugler and Kiper ranked him as their 10th favorite corner.

 

Some plays were made on him but heck that's the case with corners. But he seemed on top of the plays for the most part, WRs were not streaking free for the most part. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree its unpredictable.  I recall hearing the year we had 19 there was no interest from other teams for our pick.   But last year there was with the Saints offering the most.

 

I am guessing if the league sees the top CBs, the same as most mock drafters -- if Witherspoon, Gonzalez or Porter is still there, a team might trade up regardless of the depth at that spot.  Similar to WR last year.

 

Bijon could be the target for teams to trade up for.  If the league consensus is that of guys like DJ & Matt Miller that Bijon is a top 10 talent, I could see teams trading up for him if he's there at 16.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, mhd24 said:

 

Bijon could be the target for teams to trade up for.  If the league consensus is that of guys like DJ & Matt Miller that Bijon is a top 10 talent, I could see teams trading up for him if he's there at 16.

 

Maybe.   I'd be surprised.  Bijon is really good but its not a common spot to trade up for in the top half of the draft. 

[Koolblue13]

Nobody is trading up for Bijon. Especially with Gibbs right there. 

 

I think Bijon is going to end up in the NFC East though.