2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[method man]

It is tough to start multiple rookies on a line + moving Cosmi, who is relatively new to the guard position and adding a new vet to play another of the positions. Much easier if it is one rookie who is starting

[skinny21]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'd be happy coming away with 4 OL from this draft honestly. 

Sure wouldn’t bother me.

1 hour ago, Captain Wiggles said:

 

Risky but certainly needed. I'd prefer to draft two and sign two free agents along the OL. 

 

I'd also prefer drafting another project qb like Howell to sit n learn. Pass on signing Carr or Jimmy G. 

Could argue we could use help just about everywhere, especially if we look past immediate needs (ie beyond 2023).  I believe Curl (though I’m sure they do their utmost to re-sign him), Curtis, Gibson, Sweat, Fuller are all FAs after next year, and I’m sure there are others.

 

I’m down with your thoughts on qb.

35 minutes ago, method man said:

It is tough to start multiple rookies on a line + moving Cosmi, who is relatively new to the guard position and adding a new vet to play another of the positions. Much easier if it is one rookie who is starting

Agreed.  Matsko’s proclivity for mixing and matching OL during TC might lend even more weight to your perspective.  I’d expect at best (depending on one’s viewpoint) we land rookies at center and tackle that can compete (if Roullier is cut).  If we wound up drafting more OL than that, it would probably be back of the roster competition/PS guys drafted in the 6th/7th.  Probably more likely we keep Roullier, re-sign Larsen and/or Schweitzer, and then draft a tackle to compete with Lucas and maybe a mid-late round interior guy.

 

 

 

[Chump Bailey]

7 hours ago, Going Commando said:

I also think there is a chance that Chris Paul could take over the right tackle job next year.  He was a really good RT at Tulsa and he looks like a natural at that position.  I think we've been assuming he'd kick inside because he's kind of short for a tackle, but his arm length and speed are fine for an OT an 6'4 320 is still enough size to play the position in the NFL. 

 

I like Paul too. I remember watching some Senior Bowl reps last year and thought he showed well. 

[The Rook]

Has Chris Paul even played this year?  People are penciling him in as starting RT?

 

OK ... riiiight.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

His early take is.  He knows O line is hot on their agenda.  Very hot.  He also thinks corner.  He's not gone deep yet.

 

I've heard Corner talent seems better than OL talent this draft. And we need both. Although OL situations are easier to fix than Corner. A group of 5 okay guys on the OL will play better than 3 okay corners. I'm of the belief that top end CB talent > top end OL talent.

 

We need both pretty badly on this team. Fuller could be and argument that maybe he should be a cap casualty. BSJ is good, but injured often. Then we've got McCain in Nickel who is 30ish. Depth is needed and we need an outside starter pretty badly.

 

11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Paul -- they hope to be their LG.  Rivera seems hyped about him and he will be tested this Sunday against a good D line.

 

 

Is Chris Paul finally playing at Guard? I heard he looked blegh at Tackle in training camp before looking surprising at Guard. Kept thinking he'd be get some time when Charles sucked and Turner was hurt, but nope.

[skinny21]

Presuming RR and co are manning the draft, and considering the roster and the staff’s tendencies, this is my thinking regarding the 1st round (and later rds at the bottom):

 

Financially, I don’t think Rb is a smart pick in the 1st (more on Rb later).

 

I tend to think they don’t go after a corner in the 1st based off history going back to Carolina.  Though I could maybe see Del Rio pounding the table for one.

 

In terms of the roster, I have trouble believing they’d go Dline, Wr or S.  I tend to doubt they draft a TE in the 1st either, seeing how much Turner, Bates, Rogers and Hodges were talked up (and knowing development time is usually important to the position).  Same with Rb with the trio we have in the fold.

 

I think QB is possible (though doubtful).  I think it’s far more likely they go after a vet to compete with Sam, while utilizing that 1st rounder on a position that can help lead to wins in the short term.

 

That leaves T, G, and C.  We know they value the C spot highly, but my guess is this would only happen in a trade back scenario.

 

Putting all of that a slightly different way, given how need based their draft process is, along with a win-now mentality, I think we almost certainly go OL in the 1st, with an outside/remote chance they break their tendency and go corner.

 

 

Applying those same presumptions to the rest of the draft, my best guess of what they do:

OL - They draft one in the 1st, and quite possibly/likely another anytime after the 1st.

DL - 5th rd or later (if they draft any), though this could change if Payne walks.

ILB - 2nd or later

S - 5th or later

QB - 4th/5th or later (I’d lean toward “later” or not at all given 1) they already have a developmental guy, and 2) they want a player with a chance of helping in the short term). 

RB - 4th or later (if any)

TE - Don’t think they draft one

WR - 4th/5th or later

Corner - 3rd or later (this is almost purely based on their history).  Two caveats here - one, Del Rio could bang the table for a corner earlier - seeing it as the biggest potential difference maker for the D (and the same could be said of ILB).  Two, with (likely?) only a comp pick in the 3rd (due to Scherff), maybe they do break their tendency and draft a corner in the 2nd (or even 1st). 

 

The 4th/5th designation is meant to imply that while I doubt they use a 4th, that’s the earliest I see it.

Again, this is purely about what I think the staff does.  1st - OL, 2nd-4th - OL/ILB/Corner (not necessarily in that order).  My wildcard would be Wr in the 4th.

Edited January 6, 2023 by skinny21

[Est.1974]

Odds on us trading away our first before we get to the draft ?

[Rex Tomb]

Paris has that nasty streak that Trent Williams does.  If he's there, you have to take him.  Although, I don't think he will be unless we end up in the top 10.

[Dark Acre]

Schmitz was my go-to senior year in high school (1985).  $1.50 a 6-pack.  Tasted like (@)ss but got the job done and I could buy 3 a week on my allowance.  Or since I really didn't drink that much, get 1 a week and blow the difference from $5 on Defender.  Eagle Liquors FTW!

Wait,it was Schmidt's.  Close enough.  I like this guy already.  Ahhhh, nostalgia.

[Rufus T Firefly]

7 minutes ago, Dark Acre said:

Schmitz was my go-to senior year in high school (1985).  $1.50 a 6-pack.  Tasted like (@)ss but got the job done and I could buy 3 a week on my allowance.  Or since I really didn't drink that much, get 1 a week and blow the difference from $5 on Defender.  Eagle Liquors FTW!

Wait,it was Schmidt's.  Close enough.  I like this guy already.  Ahhhh, nostalgia.

Must have been nice, Rockefeller. Meanwhile, those of us in the proletariat were drinking Red, White and Blue for $4.99 a case. 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Odds on us trading away our first before we get to the draft ?

 

 Low.   They seem to put so many of their eggs in the draft at the expense of FA, that tough for me to see them going a different route this time. 

 

19 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Is Chris Paul finally playing at Guard? I heard he looked blegh at Tackle in training camp before looking surprising at Guard. Kept thinking he'd be get some time when Charles sucked and Turner was hurt, but nope.

 

Keim said they see him as guard. 

Edited January 6, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Just watched Joe Tippman, C, Wisconsin, a dude who I mentioned before.  i like him.  I do like Michael-Schmitz more though.

 

I like him.  Generally, I do like O lineman from Wisconsin, they are typically big dudes who are coached well.   

 

You could see why he made Feldman's list of freaks, he has a big upper body, very strong, and can move, too.  Mauls as a run blocker, plays with a mean streak.  Can hit the 2nd level.   If they want to run the ball and be a physical team, he'd fit this to a tee.   Brings that attitude to his play.

 

Decent in pass protection but he loses his balance at times, can look sloppy with his hands, plays a bit high.  He has some aspects of his game that needs to be cleaned up.

 

They actually sometimes use him as the lead-puller on power runs which isn't that common for a center.   Zone and power. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Sedrick Van Pran.  Another good center IMO.  Solid.  Watched a quick game just now. 

 

Anchors well in pass protections, can move-2nd level run blocking.  Loses balance at times and lunges and misses sometimes. 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim on Bram's show.

 

Drafting or signing a tackle, want to move Cosmi inside. Suspects a move or two on the interior, too.  CB.  LB.  

[Chump Bailey]

It seems like this is another loaded draft on the defensive side. I hope we do not ignore elite level prospects or view them as luxury picks for a position of need. That would be a mistake IMHO, and yes, I do agree the OL needs a lot of work. 

 

 

[Dark Acre]

7 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Must have been nice, Rockefeller. Meanwhile, those of us in the proletariat were drinking Red, White and Blue for $4.99 a case. 

With tax added, I couldn't afford $4.99.

[Skinsinparadise]

The other tackle for Ohio State, RT, Dawand Jones.  Looks like he can play.  He's got a stomach which he needs to rid himself of.  6 '8, 360.  We had Ty Nsehke, Lucas also 6 '8. I think if he lost 20 points he'd be more limber but he moves OK for a big guy.

 

Watched his Notre Dame and Oregon games.  With his wingspan he just swallows guys in pass protection.  Strong hands.  Decent with the run game, mauls but not as you might expect for a dude that size but he has his moments doing it.  Has some of the usual big man problems, balance, edge defenders bend around him, his speed on the move is nothing special.  Overall, I like him, don't love him.  if he's there in the 3rd-4th round range, I'd consider.

 

Zone, power, lead pulling blocker at times.   Caught some more Paris Johnson while watching, Johnson played right guard next to Jones in 2021.  i like Paris better at LT than guard.  Dawand though is feisty in pass protection, better versus power than speed rushers considering his size but is stout and feisty.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

The more I see of some of the seniors in this corner class, the more I like it.  We're definitely going to be able to get a good corner on day 2 if we want, just have to maneuver around in the late second and third to get into position.

 

I think there is a strong chance we go OT in the first (probably OT3 like Broderick Jones) and then go OC in the second and go CB in the third via the comp pick.

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

The more I see of some of the seniors in this corner class, the more I like it.  We're definitely going to be able to get a good corner on day 2 if we want, just have to maneuver around in the late second and third to get into position.

 

I think there is a strong chance we go OT in the first (probably OT3 like Broderick Jones) and then go OC in the second and go CB in the third via the comp pick.

 

Some media draft types seem to think Broderick Jones might end up OT1.  I don't see it myself based on the games I watched.  But I guess I can see it if teams are fixated on tools.  That dude has some serious speed-athleticism, where he can hit the 2nd level quickly and with gusto, compared to the typical tackle.    He worries me though with his current play in pass protection albeit I know he's been improving-trending up on that front.  I'd trust Paris Johnson right now over Jones.   Haven't watched Skoronski yet. 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

Jay Ward #5 on LSU is a senior DB who caught my eye with some of his hitting.  He's kind of a nickel/safety hybrid and he's 6'2 190.  Solid speed, looks a lot faster playing downhill as a safety, where he really flies like a missile.  But should be able to man cover slot route trees.  Kind of skinny looking with very long arms.   Very big hitter.  Head hunter mentality and he about killed Bryce Young when he took it up field on a scramble and didn't slide.  Kind of the tone setter for LSU's defense.  Scrappy in press coverage with solid instincts and reactive quickness.  I think he's got some real versatility to make those tricky man coverage shifts between safety and corner assignments.

 

TDN has a fourth round projection on him and that kind of feels like a bargain to me.  That would be a nice get with our pick in that round, might even be worth it to use that 3rd round comp pick.

 

 

[justice98]

12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Keim on Bram's show.

 

Drafting or signing a tackle, want to move Cosmi inside. Suspects a move or two on the interior, too.  CB.  LB.  

 

We love drafting tackles and making them guards.  

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

We love drafting tackles and making them guards.  

 

With Scherff plenty of talk at the time, he was better suited to guard.  Ditto Cosmi.

 

Plenty of college tackles are better suited to play guard in the NFL, especially because of arm length, so its not unique to us.   I get the impression from Keim's podcasts, they are more in the hunt for a tackle than a guard. 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Some media draft types seem to think Broderick Jones might end up OT1.  I don't see it myself based on the games I watched.  But I guess I can see it if teams are fixated on tools.  That dude has some serious speed-athleticism, where he can hit the 2nd level quickly and with gusto, compared to the typical tackle.    He worries me though with his current play in pass protection albeit I know he's been improving-trending up on that front.  I'd trust Paris Johnson right now over Jones.   Haven't watched Skoronski yet. 

 

I'm going back and researching Jones right now.  I didn't like him the first time, but am more open minded upon second viewing.  My main complaints with him are that he is small and doesn't look that physical or aggressive, but he gets more aggressive and assertive as the year went on.  Probably just needs more game reps to get confident and more accurate and aggressive with his run blocks.

 

Right now, I am seeing some issues with is hands in pass pro that are causing him to lose reps and give up some pressures where he has a good set and would win with better hands.  His arm length might just be OK, but I think the issue is more with him shooting his hands too slow/missing his target and not getting a good latch.  So I think the issue could be driven by technique rather than a physical limitation, and that with a lot of hand work/improvement he could be fine.  You're right about his speed, it is elite.  He is as twitchy and agile of an OT as you will find.  Reactive speed is best in the class among OLs IMO and his first step off the LoS in his set and when he's moving forward to run block is elite.  Kid probably could have played DL and been really good.

 

I think PJJr is further along in his development, has much better size to play OT, is safer and has obvious leadership potential, and also probably better all around than Broderick Jones.  But I also think he's OT1 and likely to go by the end of the top 10-12.  Teams are going to fall in love with him when they get to talk to him, and he had a good season.

 

I really like Skoronski and think he has everything you look for except for one big weakness with the arm length.  It's an issue too, note the snaps against Zach Harrison where he just can not get a clean block on him due to losing the length battle so thoroughly.  Looks like more of an issue as a run blocker where he just gets stacked up and shucked with ease, but it'll come up against long arm pass rushes from dudes like Montez Sweat too.  You can only compensate for a length issue so much, and it's why I'd be afraid that he won't be able to stay outside like Rashawn Slater did.  Otherwise his tape is fabulous and he looks like a stud prospect, and would probably be the OT1 and a top 10 pick if not for the short arms.  Looks like he has big hands though.

 

I want to see some combine measurements on Jones too.  I suspect he'll come in at 6'3 to 6'4, and I think he played the season at less than 300 pounds, but he should be able to bulk up for the combine.  I want to see his arm length measurements too since he looks like a smaller tackle.  If he hits 33 or 34 inches, that's fine, but I would just want to be sure I'm not drafting a raw and undersized future guard at 14 with him.  The reason I'd be taking a project like him that early in the draft is because I want his speed at LT some day.

 

 

[Warhead36]

I think we're gonna see Rivera trade up into the top 3 for one of the QB prospects. Desperation move to save his job with the new owner.