2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

Perfect for the issues we've had in the red zone.  Jay Gruden who studied our offense all season long said TE is a big missing ingredient for this offense, especially in the red zone.    Having a dude who is a threat on the 2nd level in the seam would help open things up even more for Terry.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

My gut on Mayer is - after testing he will be gone before we select

Yeah. I think so too. 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

My gut on Mayer is - after testing he will be gone before we select

 

He could be gone but I don't think the combine with catapult him.  Like Kyle Hamilton, I think it will be solid but nothing special in the combine specifically.  His speed doesn't look special.  I'd obviously take him anyway.  Some like to compare him to Gonk.  Gonk ran about 4.7. 

 

I'd be surprised if Mayer blows up the combine.  Now, someone like Broderick Jones i think does blow up the combine and might be a surprise go before our pick. 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He could be gone but I don't think the combine with catapult him.  Like Kyle Hamilton, I think it will be solid but nothing special.  His speed doesn't look special.  I'd obviously take him anyway.  Some like to compare him to Gonk.  Gonk ran about 4.7. 

 

I'd be surprised if Mayer blows up the combine.  Now, someone like Broderick Jones i think does blow up the combine and might be a surprise go before our pick. 

I do not expect Mayer to blow up the combine either. I don't think he needs to as he can live off his resume. I believe people will realize he just belongs in the top dozen regardless of his position.

 

I also believe many of the currently higher rated players will not sustain their rating after workouts. Mayer will slowly move up teams boards. I also see is as already higher than 15 on many boards

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, DWinzit said:

I do not expect Mayer to blow up the combine either. I don't think he needs to as he can live off his resume. I believe people will realize he just belongs in the top dozen regardless of his position.

 

I also believe many of the currently higher rated players will not sustain their rating after workouts. Mayer will slowly move up teams boards. I also see is as already higher than 15 on many boards

 

No doubt he can go before our pick.  I am actually hoping the combine makes teams pause.  I suspect the usual stuff coming out when a ballyhooed prospect gets the breaks put on them post combine ala Kyle Hamilton. 

 

The main thing working for us is his position just like it worked against Hamilton that he was a safety.  Heck we see it on this thread, people liking him but pushing back on a TE this early.  Also, its looking like a really unique draft for TE -- especially Y-TE.  Typically drafts are deeper with F-TE.  Kincaid looks to be the best F-TE.  But otherwise its Y after Y-TE and considering ther style this offenses plays -- a Y-TE is tailor made IMO.   So soime teams might think we will get that guy later.

[Skinsinparadise]

After watching him, I liked Chris Paul and I know @Going Commando touted him too post draft.  Hopefully, he's one of the answers. 

 

Digesting sort of the early rap from beat guys, mostly Keim, feels like this FO-Ron is fixated on the O line.  I like that to some extent but also don't to some extent, too.

 

for the most part I think their drafts have been good.  I don't agree with all of their decsions in the draft but they aren't bad at it IMO.   But if I had to pick one thing I don't like about their approach and the previous regime rocked the same way is that they lock into need in the first round, sometimes they will broaden that need, and zone in on two spots.  

 

My point is I got my doubts they are open minded to budge off O line and CB on defense but O line seems priority one.  Also Dan has been stingy in FA and i am doubting especially with maybe a sale going on, he's going to open his wallet in FA, so I think they rely on the draft.

 

I think the odds are good is it will be one of the top tackles.  Anton Harrison is the one who should be there for sure at 16.  Broderick Jones, maybe is still there.  I like Harrison in pass protection, just average though IMO as a run blocker.

 

Feels like they are taking a tackle and an interior O lineman for sure.    I'd be surprised if its not tackle early with the dark horse spot being corner.  But if I had to bet now.  Tackle in the first, CB in the 2nd.  Guard-center in the third.  Maybe they trade down to amass picks if they could.    If Jones is gone at 16 and they are locked in on tackle they can likely trade down and still get Harrison.  Torrence maybe is a darkhorse pick if they trade down -- a dude I like a lot in pass protection.

 

 

 

 

17. WASHINGTON COMMANDERS (UP 1)

Projected Week 18 Starters:

LT Charles Leno Jr.
LG Andrew Norwell
C Wes Schweitzer
RG Trai Turner
RT Cornelius Lucas

• Three of the five Commanders starters finished with sub-60.0 PFF pass-blocking grades against the Browns.
• Only three offensive lines have been penalized less often than Washington's (25).

Upcoming Opponent: Dallas Cowboys

• Micah Parsons is a true Defensive Player of the Year candidate for Dallas. He has 85 total pressures, the second most in the league.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-week-18-2022

Edited January 10, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

No doubt Mayer is going to be a prized prospect for teams but your friendly neighborhood draft contrarian will wait patiently and select one Dalton Kincaid TE Utah

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

No doubt Mayer is going to be a prized prospect for teams but your friendly neighborhood draft contrarian will wait patiently and select one Dalton Kincaid TE Utah

 

I like Kincaid, i talked about him months ago but much prefer a Y-TE to an F-TE like Kincaid considering how this offense rolls. 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like Kincaid, i talked about him months ago but much prefer a Y-TE to an F-TE like Dalton considering how this offense rolls. 

 

Always a step ahead

[HigSkin]

FWIW, Yesterday on The Junkies, Keim when asked who he thought might get released, he dropped a few names besides Wentz.  Trai Turner and Norwell were included in those names.  We'll see...    

[Skinsinparadise]

As far a Y-TE type mid rounds, just watched a game for Payne Durham, big dude, plays with a mean streak both with the ball in his hands, YAC, and sometimes as a blocker.  As a blocker, he's good but doesn't blow me away, can lose contain-balance at times.

 

Strong hands-catch radius.  He has a lumbering style of running, and doesn't look that agile, like some other big TEs.  

 

They use him everywhere -- H back, in line, line him as a receiver, put him in motiion, they use him as a chess piece.

 

Overall, i like him. 4th-5th round. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

At this point the 4-team playoff should just be SEC teams.

 

And when it's increased it should be 6-8 SEC teams + whoever else won't win it. 

 

It's Georgia's time right now, as they haven't fallen out of the top three in recruiting class rankings for like six years.  But Ohio State really should have beaten them.  They are consistently in the top four over that span as well, and this year they were the only other team that could really match Georgia's OL talent and come close to matching on the DL + they had the QB and DBs and receivers and backs to hang with them.

 

What Georgia's run essentially proves, and what the success of Michigan and Ohio State during this run also supports, is that QB & WR <<< OL & DL recruiting for CFB.  I want this to sink in, because I thunk there is trickle up implication.

 

USC and UNC have two of the best QBs that we're going to see at the college level, and they got smoked when they went up against teams with high end lines on just one side of the ball.  Oregon and Oklahoma have had some great OLs and high end QB prospects, but can't break through because of crap DLs.  Ditto for Utah except with the OL instead of DL.  Alabama started playing the QB game and bringing in top HS recruits at the position, and at WR, and still fell behind Georgia because Georgia began vastly out recruiting them in OL and DL talent--something that would have been unthinkable five years ago.  Until Will Anderson, Alabama hadn't produced a great DL since Daron Payne, and has really only had Evan Neal and Jonah Williams in the last five years or so, a big fall off by their former standard.  Clemson recruits and develops DLs as well as anyone, and they recruit high end QBs and had kind of been using those generational-type QBs to cope with crap OLs, but that's proven unsustainable and they just can't hang with the elite teams any more with such bad offensive line play.  TCU probably had the deepest and most talented secondary in the country, plus had special players at their offensive skill spots, and got totally clowned because their lines are crap.  And Cincy couldn't break through the previous two seasons with a similar construction because their OLs were crap.

 

When Kirby Smart got to Georgia, the first thing he realized was "we've got to get bigger and better on our lines" and he implemented a plan to do exactly that.  The Big Ten's and SEC's monopoly on line talent is why those conferences have dominated the CFP era, with Clemson really being the only ones to break up that party, and only able to do it because they too have had elite DLs in addition to the two special QBs and many special RBs and WRs that they've had.  The ACC has had a ton of good QBs and backs and receivers in it the past decade, but if you think about it, when is the last time an ACC school had multiple quality NFL players on it's offensive line?  You get the occasional Christian Darrisaw or Wyatt Teller type athlete, but almost all of the conference's line talent tends to play defense.  Makes for a spectacularly good training ground for future NFL QBs, but it's the reason why it can't hang with the cream of the Big 10 and SEC.  And why Notre Dame has been tearing the conference up sans Clemson. I pull for ACC schools and when we go up against the good teams we always look tiny on our lines by comparison.  The truth is there are only so many high end 6'5 270 to 300+ pound kids playing the sport in the country, and getting them to come to your school and play on your lines is where the real game of college football is competed.  It's the only way to achieve a balance and be an elite team.

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

Always a step ahead

 

Thanks, yeah not always a step ahead, but sometimes I can be by sheer chance if I take on a position and for whatever quirky reason I like watching TEs. 

 

It's been awhile since I've watched Kincaid but I recall thinking he comes off to me like a bit of a faster Chris Cooley.   I think he will be a good player.  Work in progress as a blocker, not as physical as i'd like-- is listed at 240 pounds but i'd guess he's in the 230s.  I think in the NFL he's a traditional F-TE.   Nothing wrong with that though -- most TEs these days are in that style.  I am gathering though they are developing Cole Turner, Armani Rogers as F types.

 

But I am hankering for a Kittle, Hockenson type, Y-TE who adds to the physicality to this offense if we play in that Titans old school Marty ball style.   Bates is OK, good as a blocker but not a threat in the seam-red zone.   A dude like Mayer IMO is tailor made.

[Koolblue13]

Bates is already one of the best blocking TEs in the league, wish he would develop in the passing game, but as a TE2, he's solid. Adding another TE that blocks and can stretch the seem like Mayer would be pretty wild.

[KDawg]

57 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Thanks, yeah not always a step ahead, but sometimes I can be by sheer chance if I take on a position and for whatever quirky reason I like watching TEs. 

 

It's been awhile since I've watched Kincaid but I recall thinking he comes off to me like a bit of a faster Chris Cooley.   I think he will be a good player.  Work in progress as a blocker, not as physical as i'd like-- is listed at 240 pounds but i'd guess he's in the 230s.  I think in the NFL he's a traditional F-TE.   Nothing wrong with that though -- most TEs these days are in that style.  I am gathering though they are developing Cole Turner, Armani Rogers as F types.

 

But I am hankering for a Kittle, Hockenson type, Y-TE who adds to the physicality to this offense if we play in that Titans old school Marty ball style.   Bates is OK, good as a blocker but not a threat in the seam-red zone.   A dude like Mayer IMO is tailor made.

The last thing we need are HBack/F style tight ends. We need an in-line guy who can be a receiver. And those guys are unicorns. Mayer fits the mold. There are a few others this year who seem to as well (but my opinion may change when I watch them). But finding those guys in general is rare. It’s just one of those years where there’s a few coming out.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

FWIW, Yesterday on The Junkies, Keim when asked who he thought might get released, he dropped a few names besides Wentz.  Trai Turner and Norwell were included in those names.  We'll see...    

 

I think Saadiq Charles, Logan Thomas, and Roullier are maybes. If they think Roullier's injuries are just bad luck, maybe not.

 

I don't think any of the cuts indicate a direction for the draft. I will say that if Fuller is a surprise cut, then that changes things. They'd look for more scheme versatile corners in the draft that can line up in press and not just off coverage. I doubt he gets cut though as he's pretty healthy and availability matters a lot.

[Warhead36]

I can't imagine cutting Fuller. He was mostly pretty solid this year and is one of the better slot CBs in the league. We're also super thin at that position and can't really afford to cut the most experienced of the bunch. 

[UK Skins]

I thought Fuller was playing outside this year? Looked good in most of the games I watched. I guess his contract will be the decider but I don't think his play was worthy of being cut

[Skinsinparadise]

43 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The last thing we need are HBack/F style tight ends. We need an in-line guy who can be a receiver. And those guys are unicorns. Mayer fits the mold. There are a few others this year who seem to as well (but my opinion may change when I watch them). But finding those guys in general is rare. It’s just one of those years where there’s a few coming out.

 

Agree, that's why I keep beating the drum for a Y-TE who can both catch and block.

 

I loved Hockenson back in the day, I pounded the table for him and he's been good, Almost 1000 yards this year.  10.6 YPC.  86 receptions.  And he can block.  I got some of the same push back from some back then about don't take a TE in the first.  I get it but rules are made to be broken, exceptions exist.

 

Mayer IMO is better than Hockenson.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree, that's why I keep beating the drum for a Y-TE who can both catch and block.

 

I loved Hockenson back in the day, I pounded the table for him and he's been good, Almost 1000 yards this year.  10.6 YPC.  86 receptions.  And he can block.

 

Mayer IMO is better than Hockenson.

I agree.

 

But I think that is going to be something people figure out and he's going to go earlier than anyone thinks. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I agree.

 

But I think that is going to be something people figure out and he's going to go earlier than anyone thinks. 

 

No doubt.  Hockenson went top 10.  Loved Hockenson at the time because its so rare to find a Y-TE who can do it all and do it all very good.  I am more jazzed about Mayer.  And I was annoying as heck about Hockenson that year, that was my guy in a big way.  Mayer might go before our pick no doubt but I think there is a fighting chance he's there, will see.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[method man]

59 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Bates is already one of the best blocking TEs in the league, wish he would develop in the passing game, but as a TE2, he's solid. Adding another TE that blocks and can stretch the seem like Mayer would be pretty wild.

Bates was disappointing as a blocker this year. Was definitely better as a rookie all around

[Panninho]

16 minutes ago, UK Skins said:

I thought Fuller was playing outside this year? Looked good in most of the games I watched. I guess his contract will be the decider but I don't think his play was worthy of being cut

Yeah, he hasn't really played in the slot since his first stint with us (where he probably was the best slot corner in the league). The Chiefs tried him there but he sucked and then they moved him to FS. We also tried it a couple of times when he came back and it didn't work. Has played outside the last two seasons and has been really solid after he started slow in both years for whatever reason.

[Koolblue13]

50 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I can't imagine cutting Fuller. He was mostly pretty solid this year and is one of the better slot CBs in the league. We're also super thin at that position and can't really afford to cut the most experienced of the bunch. 

Fuller sucks in the slot.

22 minutes ago, method man said:

Bates was disappointing as a blocker this year. Was definitely better as a rookie all around

No he wasn't. They even mentioned it this past game.

[skinny21]

I can understand the argument for cutting Fuller, but I can’t see it happening.  I think we perhaps re-sign DJ, draft one (I’d guess in the 3rd based on our FO’s history), and have those two compete with Holmes (and the back of the roster guys like Castro-Fields, the futures guy, etc).

 

Curious to see how FA is going to affect the draft for us (given our propensity for need-based drafting), especially since this is a tricky FA period for us - is Dan willing to spend?  If Dan is still here, do FAs choose other destinations?  Does the question of Ron’s tenure affect our ability to attract FAs?  Do we spend big on Payne, and how does that affect spending?

 

If we can’t do better than Norwell/Turner type of signings on the oline, I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s where we use our first 2 picks (or 2 of our first 3) - targeting T and C.