2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

29 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I was low on Willis because of his size, but I think Richardson has the size needed to play like himself. He fits the mold of the QBs I like.

 

He definitley is a freak -- size-speed-arm strength.    Like another Heinicke? 😀

 

I am intrigued I'll watch him. 

5 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

I think Richardson is a pretty bad QB right now.  Going through his cut ups, spectacular arm, wheels, and body.  Truly elite physical traits and he is OK with his ball placement on first read throws. 

 

But the kid can't see the field at all.  He plays through a straw both as a runner and passer.  He doesn't read the field or coverage and he almost never moves off his first reads without panicking because he hasn't figured anything out pre snap and doesn't know where anyone is if he hasn't been staring them down since the snap.  And he struggles finding space as a runner.  Basically just picks a lane and goes (often into the backs of his blockers) and only adjusts to maybe the first defender in the area, if that. 

 

And his spatial awareness on the field is pretty poor, which stems from the vision and situational awareness issues.  You see stuff like him running across the LoS and throwing because a defender delayed/moved him off his first read and throwing lane, and he just couldn't get past that read in time to realize he has to run.  Then on the rare snap he works to his second read, It's pure panic and he sprays the ball, either throwing into the coverage or just keeping the ball out of play altogether and throwing it to grass.  Even on the plays where he's looking off the first read during a clean pocket drop, I can tell it's crudely performative because he won't actually be looking at any other read, just kind of staring into an empty space in the field.  He's not selling anything and NFL DBs are going to read him like a book.

 

He doesn't read his pressures well either.  You're not getting anything from him pre snap on that front, and he doesn't feel the rush well.  You can tell Florida's OC wasn't comfortable with him in the pocket and was trying to protect him with frequent moving pockets and sprint outs that cut the field down for him and just gave him one rusher to deal with in space--battles he can easily win.  That's not going to work well in the NFL, you have to make these secondaries defend the whole field because they're just going to shade coverages and rushes to the right and absolutely squeeze any throwing lanes on that side of the field.

 

I don't know about this kid, and I definitely would not draft him in the first round.  He's a fabulous athlete with the truly rare combo of size and speed paired with cat like short area quickness, and he's a true power thrower.  But he is straight up a bad and super limited QB.  He's not even a good college QB yet, and Malik Willis was a way better passer and field reader than him.  He's Interesting as a late day two/early day three project due to his athletic traits, because why not at that point in the draft?  But I honestly don't think he has the football IQ and situational awareness and ability to read the game at the advanced level the NFL requires to play the position.  He's about to jump into the deep end of the sport still struggling to make true freshman year reads.  To reiterate, he's basically not reading anything, just reacting and praying and there is no mastery of the game in his play at all, just a whole lot of panic.  It is night and day watching him play vs a really advanced QB like Drake Maye or Bryce Young who are reading the whole field like a poised and confiident pro on a majority of their reps.

 

My brother in law, who is a big football fan and big UF fan shakes his head whenever I mention what do you think of Richardson in the NFL.  I got to get to watching him.  Your take and his take, isn't encouraging on that front.  But I'll get to it. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

33 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

I think Richardson is a pretty bad QB right now.  Going through his cut ups, spectacular arm, wheels, and body.  Truly elite physical traits and he is OK with his ball placement on first read throws. 

 

But the kid can't see the field at all.  He plays through a straw both as a runner and passer.  He doesn't read the field or coverage and he almost never moves off his first reads without panicking because he hasn't figured anything out pre snap and doesn't know where anyone is if he hasn't been staring them down since the snap.  And he struggles finding space as a runner.  Basically just picks a lane and goes (often into the backs of his blockers) and only adjusts to maybe the first defender in the area, if that. 

 

And his spatial awareness on the field is pretty poor, which stems from the vision and situational awareness issues.  You see stuff like him running across the LoS and throwing because a defender delayed/moved him off his first read and throwing lane, and he just couldn't get past that read in time to realize he has to run.  Then on the rare snap he works to his second read, It's pure panic and he sprays the ball, either throwing into the coverage or just keeping the ball out of play altogether and throwing it to grass.  Even on the plays where he's looking off the first read during a clean pocket drop, I can tell it's crudely performative because he won't actually be looking at any other read, just kind of staring into an empty space in the field.  He's not selling anything and NFL DBs are going to read him like a book.

 

He doesn't read his pressures well either.  You're not getting anything from him pre snap on that front, and he doesn't feel the rush well.  You can tell Florida's OC wasn't comfortable with him in the pocket and was trying to protect him with frequent moving pockets and sprint outs that cut the field down for him and just gave him one rusher to deal with in space--battles he can easily win.  That's not going to work well in the NFL, you have to make these secondaries defend the whole field because they're just going to shade coverages and rushes to the right and absolutely squeeze any throwing lanes on that side of the field.

 

I don't know about this kid, and I definitely would not draft him in the first round.  He's a fabulous athlete with the truly rare combo of size and speed paired with cat like short area quickness, and he's a true power thrower.  But he is straight up a bad and super limited QB.  He's not even a good college QB yet, and Malik Willis was a way better passer and field reader than him.  He's Interesting as a late day two/early day three project due to his athletic traits, because why not at that point in the draft?  But I honestly don't think he has the football IQ and situational awareness and ability to read the game at the advanced level the NFL requires to play the position.  He's about to jump into the deep end of the sport still struggling to make true freshman year reads.  To reiterate, he's basically not reading anything, just reacting and praying and there is no mastery of the game in his play at all, just a whole lot of panic.  It is night and day watching him play vs a really advanced QB like Drake Maye or Bryce Young who are reading the whole field like a poised and confiident pro on a majority of their reps.

 

Agree he is a bad QB right now. Agree with all of his traits. But man, his legs can help him develop. 

 

But he HAS to play. And I don't like him for this franchise with our current regime in place/ownership situation. I wouldn't draft him to this team, I don't think. It's just not a fit. 

[Warhead36]

Just now, KDawg said:

 

Agree he is a bad QB right now. Agree with all of his traits. But man, his legs can help him develop. 

 

But he HAS to play. And I don't like him for this franchise with our current regime in place/ownership situation. I wouldn't draft him to this team, I don't think. It's just not a fit. 

Thats how I see it as well.

 

Hes a talented guy but I don’t expect THIS franchise to be able to develop him.

[Chump Bailey]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Paris to my eyes looks like a bonafide LT.   Jones to me has some boom-bust in him, might be a better fit at RT considering IMO he's a better run blocker than blindside protector. Probably ditto Anton Harrison.  I haven't watched Sloronski yet, I noticed some saying he's more suited to guard to tackle. 

 

As to guard, I like Torrence a lot but 10-14 is way early for him. 

 

I want Cody Mauch on the OL!

[Going Commando]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Johnston likely blows up the combine and Smith-Njigba I doubt kills it.  So I got little doubt Johnston goes first among the Wrs. If it were me I'd take Johnston first of those two WRs and it wouldn't be a tough call.   I'd be mildly surpised if Johnson makes it to our pick.  I think slam dunk Smith-Njigba makes it.  I like Smith-Njigba but I would take Johnston over him and ditto Michael Mayer and ditto Paris Johnson among the players I've watched thus far.  He'd be next.

 

QJ is definitely going to be the first WR off the board, and I would take him first too.  He's a poor man's Calvin Johnson/Andre Johnson.  Has their size, speed, and skills but not their strength or consistency.  He's been the obvious best player on the field in almost every TCU game I watched this year, and been winning almost all of his battles.

 

I'd be a little hesitant to put too much weight into the generational tackle breaker stat because the state of Big 12 secondary tackling is truly awful out on the edge where he plays.  But it is no doubt a strength for him because secondaries are so threatened by his long speed and size they always have to play him really soft and come in really disadvantaged when it's tackling time.  The only guy I saw that really matched up with him physically and busted him up a little was Julius Brents in the conference championship.  That was a really fun battle where they both punked each other a couple of times, and consequently, that's where I started being intrigued by Brents.  He's a St-Juste clone.  Length and strength bothers QJ and that's where I think he falls short in the comparison to the Johnsons or to like Mike Evans or Julio Jones.  Those dudes have/had true functional power and could play through anyone and really beat the crap out of the coverage during the contact window, and QJ has just regular strength.  He likes to win with quickness over physicality, more like a Davante Adams, whereas Mike Evans is just going to hit you and bully his way through you.

 

I love him and would happily pick him, but I don't think he'll be there.  IMO he's easily top eight in the class.

 

I do think JSN will be there though, and he's top eight for me too.  I think the NFL sometimes gets guys like JSN wrong, where the special sauce is a little more subtle.  They did it with Justin Jefferson, but not with AJ Green, and I'm guessing the main reason they got it right with Green was because he was so tall.  JSN is in their school as a receiver. JSN's hands and body control are truly spectacular and perhaps the best and most natural I have ever seen.  I've never really seen anything like that TD he caught in the back of the end zone in the fourth quarter of the Nebraska game.  Stuff like that is just God-given and is basically play making genius, like the stuff Justin Jefferson does.

 

He doesn't look the part of a dominant NFL receiver.  Kind of small and a bit skinny and low cut with a lot of torso, neck, and a big head.  And I doubt he runs a fast 40.  But that's actually kind of exciting to me because I think it means one of the best players in a draft class will drop to us mid-round if we're smart enough to take advantage for once.  Watch the pace the kid plays with to get a sense of his functional speed.  Awesome quickness off the line and into and out of the break with late rep ability to separate and create throwing lanes.  He has elite agility and can make those lateral cuts that he can work in long after the break to uncover right before the throw.  He does everything quick and he looks locked in on almost every rep.  That's the kind d of pace you want to see, because very few routes and rep battles are just straight line foot races.

 

I think this kid is going to be a play making work horse and is the likely BPA for us where we draft.  If we pick him, then I think he could legitimately elevate us to having the best passing game weapons in the league.  That's a neck of a situation for a young QB to walk into if we can get our protection issues fixed.

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am ok in theory with Richardson but he's definitely a red shirt prospect, boom-bust.  Great arm, mobile, great size,   Atrocious accuracy on the first level and 2nd level.

 

Wondering if Willis' poor start effects Richardson's draft status.    Willis is smaller than Richardson but otherwise fits a similar profile -- toolsy guy, nice deep ball, rocket arm, mobile as heck -- poor accuracy on the first and 2nd level.

 

I haven't decided on Richardson, I got to watch him closely versus what i have done so far which is watch him at times in real time.  Intriguing tools for sure. 

 

Back to Willis, it was probably too soon to start him this year.  So the book isn't written yet.

 

 

Skins, as ever really appreciate your input. As I say I have 0 idea on where to begin evaluating these prospects and your wealth of knowledge in this thread is what makes it a must read 👍

 

Much of the highlight tapes paint a Willis type picture like you say, and I guess if he was and truly accurate passer then he'd be in the conversation much higher up in the draft so it makes sense that there are negatives to his game. I guess its whether it can be coached into him and whether the coaching staff here have the ability to do it, I'm sceptical on that front

[method man]

I’m a no on Skoronski. He seems to be in the same mold of a guy like AVT - an athletic technician with length concerns who is going to have to shift to guard in the NFL (where he will arguably be a stud like AVT has been). 
 

I understand that Rashawn Slater, Skoronski’s former Northwestern teammate, had the same question marks coming out but it is a big gamble. 
 

We actually took that bet with Cosmi to some extent although Cosmi had technique issues coming out and it is looking like Cosmi will be a guard next year

 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Paris to my eyes looks like a bonafide LT.   Jones to me has some boom-bust in him, might be a better fit at RT considering IMO he's a better run blocker than blindside protector. Probably ditto Anton Harrison.  I haven't watched Sloronski yet, I noticed some saying he's more suited to guard to tackle. 

 

As to guard, I like Torrence a lot but 10-14 is way early for him. 

I truthfully don’t love any of these guys. The best route is to sign Dillard in FA. I’m going to be as annoying about Dillard as Zim is about Caleb Williams

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

I want Cody Mauch on the OL!

 

I've seen his profile, looks like an old school caveman -- Hog type.  Purely as to his look, I haven't watched him play.

 

like always, i am very in terested in Keim's deep throat tidbits that he gets from the FO.  Among other things he's the only beat guy that I recall who kept saying watch for Carson Wentz when no one else was talking about it.

 

His early take is.  He knows O line is hot on their agenda.  Very hot.  He also thinks corner.  He's not gone deep yet.

 

But reading into some of his comments and others my early guess is this.

 

Leno -- is their LT.

Paul -- they hope to be their LG.  Rivera seems hyped about him and he will be tested this Sunday against a good D line.

Center -- they are in the market for.  they thinking losing their center two years in a row has been a disaster.  Their backup, Larsen also lost 2 seasons in a row.

RG -- Cosmi

RT -- draft.  Get a dude who eventually can transition to LT and replace Leno.

 

I think they are mega hot to trot for a tackle.  Keim reminded that they wanted one of the top 3 tackles in the last draft but they all went before their pick.

 

 

[Going Commando]

20 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Agree he is a bad QB right now. Agree with all of his traits. But man, his legs can help him develop. 

 

But he HAS to play. And I don't like him for this franchise with our current regime in place/ownership situation. I wouldn't draft him to this team, I don't think. It's just not a fit. 

 

Yeah his legs are elite.  I went into his cut ups knowing he could run, but was expecting more like a Cam Newton or Josh Allen type runner.  He's so much quicker and more agile than them.  Runs more like Fields or Willis where the lateral speed is really where he kills you, but he's noticeably taller and bigger-bodied than both of them.  He can basically beat any defensive player trying to break down on him out in space, so I can absolutely see this being a tool he uses to buy time and opportunities in the NFL.  But I always come back to a question about his ability to read the game.  OK so he's bought time for playside options to uncover by extending the play outside of the pocket.  But an NFL secondary can shade their safety zones over to the right knowing there is zero chance he can work back across the field or switch levels, and there is almost never going to be enough space for him to throw.  And I can see how his ability to zig zag through a defense could make him a dangerous weapon for designed runs, but I don't think his vision as a runner is good enough for that to be an offensive staple like it is with Fields or Lamar Jackson.  He doesn't find secondary lanes consistently like them.

 

I think the game is way too fast for him, and I agree that he is a bad fit here and wouldn't draft him for us.  But I question how well he's going to fit anywhere.  I question whether it's realistic that an NFL staff is going to be able to get him reading the game and seeing the whole field in any kind of reasonable time frame before they give up on the project and move on from him.  Florida had the biggest training wheels on him they could manage and he still wasn't good for them, and didn't seem to develop over the course of the season.  If an NFL team can get him in and have him play well and eventually turn into a good QB, then I am going to be super impressed with that staff.  I don't know, maybe the Florida staff is just crap and NFL coaches are way better teachers and managers, but his feel for the game and his level of mastery of it is alarmingly pre-natal to me.  I don't think this is a Josh Allen or Justin Herbert type situation of elite traits just needing NFL teaching/mentorship and surrounding talent.  I think this will be a situation of a project having to be built from the ground up.  And my gut says that his NFL coaches are not going to be comfortable playing him his rookie year at all, and that if they do end up playing him, it'll be due to outside pressure and bad circumstances.

[Chump Bailey]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Leno -- is their LT.

Paul -- they hope to be their LG.  Rivera seems hyped about him and he will be tested this Sunday against a good D line.

Center -- they are in the market for.  they thinking losing their center two years in a row has been a disaster.  Their backup, Larsen also lost 2 seasons in a row.

RG -- Cosmi

RT -- draft.  Get a dude who eventually can transition to LT and replace Leno.

 

I think they are mega hot to trot for a tackle.  Keim reminded that they wanted one of the top 3 tackles in the last draft but they all went before their pick.

 

 

 

It seems as if Cosmi has struggled in the T role, which surprises me a bit. I don't get to watch much football anymore, unfortunately. I though he had all the makings of a terrific plug n play type OT coming out of Texas.

[Skinsinparadise]

John Michael Schmitz.

 

Just watched a game.

 

He's not Tyler Linderbaum level.  But he looks good IMO.  Stout in pass protection, strong upper body, anchors well.   He doesn't look fast as to getting to the 2nd level but most centers aren't. He's a bit grabby and loses balance at times when on the move.  Has a bit of mean streak in the run game.  Played a lot of zone in the game I watched, pulled at times.  2nd rounder IMO.

 

Supposedly a bright kid and hard worker.

 

https://lacrossetribune.com/schmitz-is-the-gophers-center-of-attention-now/article_9a9b0a0c-1cd5-11ed-802e-67d4cdc00f1c.html

“When your best players are your hardest workers, they can bring everybody along with them,’’ he said. “John Michael’s brought the whole offensive line.’’

Last year, the Gophers offensive line followed its center’s lead in bludgeoning opposing defenses. The Gophers averaged 198 rushing yards per game, despite using five different starting backs, and ranked third in the nation in time of possession (35 minutes, 25 seconds per game). Schmitz drew praise from those who study offensive line play. Pro Football Focus, for example, gave him its third-highest run blocking grade for a center since 2019, trailing only Iowa’s Tyler Linderbaum, last year’s Rimington winner, and Alabama’s Landon Dickerson, the 2020 honoree.

 

 

 

 

[method man]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

John Michael Schmitz.

 

Just watched a game.

 

He's not Tyler Linderbaum level.  But he looks good IMO.  Stout in pass protection, strong upper body, anchors well.   He doesn't look fast as to getting to the 2nd level but most centers aren't. He's a bit grabby and loses balance at times when on the move.  Has a bit of mean streak in the run game.  Played a lot of zone in the game I watched, pulled at times.  2nd rounder IMO.

 

Supposedly a bright kid and hard worker.

 

https://lacrossetribune.com/schmitz-is-the-gophers-center-of-attention-now/article_9a9b0a0c-1cd5-11ed-802e-67d4cdc00f1c.html

“When your best players are your hardest workers, they can bring everybody along with them,’’ he said. “John Michael’s brought the whole offensive line.’’

Last year, the Gophers offensive line followed its center’s lead in bludgeoning opposing defenses. The Gophers averaged 198 rushing yards per game, despite using five different starting backs, and ranked third in the nation in time of possession (35 minutes, 25 seconds per game). Schmitz drew praise from those who study offensive line play. Pro Football Focus, for example, gave him its third-highest run blocking grade for a center since 2019, trailing only Iowa’s Tyler Linderbaum, last year’s Rimington winner, and Alabama’s Landon Dickerson, the 2020 honoree.

 

 

 

 

I really hope he is there for us in round 2

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, method man said:

I really hope he is there for us in round 2

 

Depends on who else is there but yeah I am in the all hands on deck to fix the O line.

 

Forgot who said it but it was some scout who once said its tough to be a good football team and have a bad offensive line.

 

Tough to tell this early what they will do in the off season but one thing is clear from listening to various insiders -- they really really really want to address the O line.

[Going Commando]

3 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

It seems as if Cosmi has struggled in the T role, which surprises me a bit. I don't get to watch much football anymore, unfortunately. I though he had all the makings of a terrific plug n play type OT coming out of Texas.

 

Cosmi's tape looked like guard tape coming out of Texas to me.  They ran a very RPO heavy and gimmicky protection scheme where he did very little NFL-style vertical setting and thus those kinds of sets of his looked unschooled and inconsistent and unnatural to him.  He basically just got by on being a naturally gifted and super aggressive brawler, where he could just jump guys a lot of the time.  I didn't think he was going to start at OT his rookie year because I thought he was going to need a lot of technical development, but we cut Morgan Moses (a mistake in retrospect) and threw him into the fire and he actually played really well as a rookie.  Looking back, I think the main reason he played so much better as a rookie was because he was playing next to Scherff and Roullier was still playing during almost all of the games where Cosmi played.  It really helps having an experienced center marshalling your line and setting the protections for everyone.  And it helps having a high end linemen with a lot of experience and hard-won feel for the game playing beside you instead of a revolving door of JAGs.

 

I think Cosmi is a keeper and will eventually be one of those veterans who helps elevate the other guys on the line, but right now I think he is still a raw prospect who has had his own development interrupted by injuries and unsteady line play around him.  I think he could settle in at either RG or RT, and where he ends up playing will come down to two factors:

 

1 - who we draft

2 - how good Chris Paul looks at tackle next camp.

 

I think we're obviously going to pick a day one or day two OL in this year's class, whether via reach of value pick because that is the transparent way we operate in the draft.  And I also think we're going to spend some money in FA to bring in a starter.  If the draft pick is an IOL like a center or a guard like O'Cyrus Torrence, then I think Cosmi stays at RT.  If it's PJJr or Harrison, I think Cosmi kicks inside to RG and they take over the RT job next year, and maybe even stay there long term.  If it's Skoronski, that is a little trickier.  There is some speculation that he doesn't have the arm length to play OT in the NFL, and it might be confirmed when we get the combine measurements on him.  If that's the case, then I think Skoronski kicks inside to either guard or center, which likely leaves Cosmi on the outside at tackle.

 

I also think there is a chance that Chris Paul could take over the right tackle job next year.  He was a really good RT at Tulsa and he looks like a natural at that position.  I think we've been assuming he'd kick inside because he's kind of short for a tackle, but his arm length and speed are fine for an OT an 6'4 320 is still enough size to play the position in the NFL.  I can see a scenario where you've got Skoronski at OC, Cosmi at RG, and Paul at RT and that being a really good offensive line by the end of the year.  Tough to have so many inexperienced starters clustered together like that, but it'd be a way to get all of our best talent on the field on the OL, and they would gain experience and familiarity together in a similar way to how our DL grew up together.

 

But I also really like Paul as a candidate at one of the starting guard spots too.  Our uncertainty of the configuration for Paul and Cosmi is actually a good thing IMO because it speaks to their flexibility.  Flexibility is good, and we want to be able to draft any OL that falls to us and work him into our group, knowing we can move Paul and Cosmi to make the pieces fit together.

[method man]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Depends on who else is there but yeah I am in the all hands on deck to fix the O line.

 

Forgot who said it but it was some scout who once said its tough to be a good football team and have a bad offensive line.

 

Tough to tell this early what they will do in the off season but one thing is clear from listening to various insiders -- they really really really want to address the O line.

He is a perfect fit. Day 1 starter at either guard or center with a high floor and the ceiling to be a Pro Bowler and one if the best at his position

8 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Cosmi's tape looked like guard tape coming out of Texas to me.  They ran a very RPO heavy and gimmicky protection scheme where he did very little NFL-style vertical setting and thus those kinds of sets of his looked unschooled and inconsistent and unnatural to him.  He basically just got by on being a naturally gifted and super aggressive brawler, where he could just jump guys a lot of the time.  I didn't think he was going to start at OT his rookie year because I thought he was going to need a lot of technical development, but we cut Morgan Moses (a mistake in retrospect) and threw him into the fire and he actually played really well as a rookie.  Looking back, I think the main reason he played so much better as a rookie was because he was playing next to Scherff and Roullier was still playing during almost all of the games where Cosmi played.  It really helps having an experienced center marshalling your line and setting the protections for everyone.  And it helps having a high end linemen with a lot of experience and hard-won feel for the game playing beside you instead of a revolving door of JAGs.

 

I think Cosmi is a keeper and will eventually be one of those veterans who helps elevate the other guys on the line, but right now I think he is still a raw prospect who has had his own development interrupted by injuries and unsteady line play around him.  I think he could settle in at either RG or RT, and where he ends up playing will come down to two factors:

 

1 - who we draft

2 - how good Chris Paul looks at tackle next camp.

 

I think we're obviously going to pick a day one or day two OL in this year's class, whether via reach of value pick because that is the transparent way we operate in the draft.  And I also think we're going to spend some money in FA to bring in a starter.  If the draft pick is an IOL like a center or a guard like O'Cyrus Torrence, then I think Cosmi stays at RT.  If it's PJJr or Harrison, I think Cosmi kicks inside to RG and they take over the RT job next year, and maybe even stay there long term.  If it's Skoronski, that is a little trickier.  There is some speculation that he doesn't have the arm length to play OT in the NFL, and it might be confirmed when we get the combine measurements on him.  If that's the case, then I think Skoronski kicks inside to either guard or center, which likely leaves Cosmi on the outside at tackle.

 

I also think there is a chance that Chris Paul could take over the right tackle job next year.  He was a really good RT at Tulsa and he looks like a natural at that position.  I think we've been assuming he'd kick inside because he's kind of short for a tackle, but his arm length and speed are fine for an OT an 6'4 320 is still enough size to play the position in the NFL.  I can see a scenario where you've got Skoronski at OC, Cosmi at RG, and Paul at RT and that being a really good offensive line by the end of the year.  Tough to have so many inexperienced starters clustered together like that, but it'd be a way to get all of our best talent on the field on the OL, and they would gain experience and familiarity together in a similar way to how our DL grew up together.

 

But I also really like Paul as a candidate at one of the starting guard spots too.  Our uncertainty of the configuration for Paul and Cosmi is actually a good thing IMO because it speaks to their flexibility.  Flexibility is good, and we want to be able to draft any OL that falls to us and work him into our group, knowing we can move Paul and Cosmi to make the pieces fit together.

You are correct that Cosmi was helped a lot by playing with Scherff. He spoke a lot about how Scherff was helping him during games

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, method man said:

He is a perfect fit. Day 1 starter at either guard or center with a high floor and the ceiling to be a Pro Bowler and one if the best at his position

 

 

Agree, that's why I posted about him multiple times.  But at least for me I got to dive deeper on other players before locking into someone especially in the 2nd round.

 

I think the sneaky upside of picking in the upper half of the 2nd is often a player who is seen as first round worthly falls to the upper half in the 2nd.

 

It still pains me to hear from insiders (I think it was Keim but don't recall now) that they really liked Dalvin Cook but alas he was taken before their pick in the 2nd so it ended up Ryan Anderson.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[method man]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree, that's why I posted about him multiple times.  But at least for me I got to dive deeper on other players before locking into someone especially in the 2nd round.

 

I think the sneaky upside of picking in the upper half of the 2nd is often a player who is seen as first round worthly falls to the upper half in the 2nd.

 

It still pains me to hear from insiders (I think it was Keim but don't recall now) that they really liked Dalvin Cook but alas he was taken before their pick so it ended up Ryan Anderson.

I hear you but most of these first round value guys who drop into the second get snatched up in the first 5-7 picks in the 2nd

[skinny21]

Kind of a dumb question (and obviously less important than some other issues), but what do we need to do to get more chunk plays in the run game?  

Is it an oline problem?  A schematic issue?  Downfield blocking?  Our backs?  A combo of some of these things?  

I know homeruns aren’t exactly a strength for Robinson, and while it’s well within Gibson’s capabilities (at least in terms of speed), it seems like a lot of shoestring tackles hold him back in this area.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, method man said:

I hear you but most of these first round value guys who drop into the second get snatched up in the first 5-7 picks in the 2nd

 

The earlier you pick in the 2nd of course the better your odds.

 

Dalvin Cook and Kenneth Walker were the 9th pick of the 2nd.

 

AJ Brown, A. Winfield, Trevon Diggs, T. Moehrig, Koramoah all went around where we are likely picking in the 2nd -- all of whom got some late first round hype. 

 

2 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Kind of a dumb question (and obviously less important than some other issues), but what do we need to do to get more chunk plays in the run game?  

Is it an oline problem?  A schematic issue?  Downfield blocking?  Our backs?  A combo of some of these things?  

I know homeruns aren’t exactly a strength for Robinson, and while it’s well within Gibson’s capabilities (at least in terms of speed), it seems like a lot of shoestring tackles hold him back in this area.

 

I haven't studied this offense this year where I've rewatched much.  But off the top of my head, 2nd level blocking, which Scherff was a master of.  Cosmi with his speed, likely at RG guard, Scherff's old spot, can play in that mode.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

9 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Kind of a dumb question (and obviously less important than some other issues), but what do we need to do to get more chunk plays in the run game?  

Is it an oline problem?  A schematic issue?  Downfield blocking?  Our backs?  A combo of some of these things?  

I know homeruns aren’t exactly a strength for Robinson, and while it’s well within Gibson’s capabilities (at least in terms of speed), it seems like a lot of shoestring tackles hold him back in this area.

Our OL suck at moving/blocking in space. That's why our screen game has been terrible since like the Santana Moss era and why we never explode for big downfield runs.

[KDawg]

17 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Kind of a dumb question (and obviously less important than some other issues), but what do we need to do to get more chunk plays in the run game?  

Is it an oline problem?  A schematic issue?  Downfield blocking?  Our backs?  A combo of some of these things?  

I know homeruns aren’t exactly a strength for Robinson, and while it’s well within Gibson’s capabilities (at least in terms of speed), it seems like a lot of shoestring tackles hold him back in this area.

I mean it’s a combo.

 

But the OL doesn’t help. 
 

But I think it’s important to note the speed of the guys who typically hit home runs. You get bigger guys occasionally going the distance, but it’s mostly guys with that speed gear. But most guys who have that gear don’t have the “gain 3 when it’s a loss” trait that BRob has. 
 

Ideally, we’d have a guy on roster with that ability. And I wouldn’t shake my fist at air if we drafted a guy later to take that role. 
 

If Gibson is cost advisable a RB stable of: Robinson (power), Speed guy and Gibson (hybrid) is a damn good group that gives versatility. 
 

Travis Etienne, for example, can bring one to the barn. But he isn’t breaking tackles and turning a 3 yard loss into a 5 yard gain while carrying the other team on his back.

[Koolblue13]

I'd be happy coming away with 4 OL from this draft honestly. 

[skinny21]

35 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Our OL suck at moving/blocking in space. That's why our screen game has been terrible since like the Santana Moss era and why we never explode for big downfield runs.

Interesting… given how our run screens always seemed DOA, I assumed it was either the blockers weren’t seeking initial blocks, or (less likely) Turner had a schematic issue going on.  
 

But yeah, even when our run game racked up yardage, it seemed to be much more a product of our backs than blockers.  

24 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I mean it’s a combo.

 

But the OL doesn’t help. 
 

But I think it’s important to note the speed of the guys who typically hit home runs. You get bigger guys occasionally going the distance, but it’s mostly guys with that speed gear. But most guys who have that gear don’t have the “gain 3 when it’s a loss” trait that BRob has. 
 

Ideally, we’d have a guy on roster with that ability. And I wouldn’t shake my fist at air if we drafted a guy later to take that role. 
 

If Gibson is cost advisable a RB stable of: Robinson (power), Speed guy and Gibson (hybrid) is a damn good group that gives versatility. 
 

Travis Etienne, for example, can bring one to the barn. But he isn’t breaking tackles and turning a 3 yard loss into a 5 yard gain while carrying the other team on his back.

This is how I saw it as well, and part of why I brought it up - do we need a back with better speed (and vision)?  Of course, we have other, more pressing issues, so maybe more of a luxury than need.  

To be clear though, I’m not even necessarily talking about the home runs - IIRC, our longest run of the year was by Williams for something like 25 - more about hitting those 20+ yarders (or even 15+) with a bit more regularity.  
While I’m tempted to add that our passing game limitations might have been an issue as well (in terms of opening up the run game), I’m cognizant of the idea that many big runs result from getting to the second level against a stacked box.  

[skinsfan66]

15 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Interesting… given how our run screens always seemed DOA, I assumed it was either the blockers weren’t seeking initial blocks, or (less likely) Turner had a schematic issue going on.  
 

But yeah, even when our run game racked up yardage, it seemed to be much more a product of our backs than blockers.  

This is how I saw it as well, and part of why I brought it up - do we need a back with better speed (and vision)?  Of course, we have other, more pressing issues, so maybe more of a luxury than need.  

To be clear though, I’m not even necessarily talking about the home runs - IIRC, our longest run of the year was by Williams for something like 25 - more about hitting those 20+ yarders (or even 15+) with a bit more regularity.  
While I’m tempted to add that our passing game limitations might have been an issue as well (in terms of opening up the run game), I’m cognizant of the idea that many big runs result from getting to the second level against a stacked box.  

Would it not be a good thing having a safety valve for the QB that can move the sticks and keep the D honest. Gibson was the option but not sure he has the vision or quickness, he has the speed. (Eckler type) You can still play 2 backs. I am guessing it takes a little heat off OL too. If he is there for the taking, I do, even if RB value is later. Value must be equal later to pass. Gibson could be traded as he still can play at a good level and not helping much right now.  

[Captain Wiggles]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'd be happy coming away with 4 OL from this draft honestly. 

 

Risky but certainly needed. I'd prefer to draft two and sign two free agents along the OL. 

 

I'd also prefer drafting another project qb like Howell to sit n learn. Pass on signing Carr or Jimmy G. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Captain Wiggles