2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

I don’t think you’re arguing against that thought, and you’re just saying what you think the team will do. But if that happens there isn’t a bigger reason to doubt this regime.

I think we’ll trade up for one if we are picking outside the top 10. Rivera didn’t like the cost of that a couple of years back but I reckon his thought process will be different now. Plenty to unfold before that point though.

[Mooka]

On 10/23/2022 at 3:13 PM, Zim489 said:

Pick 14 right now. Zero idea about QB. They aren’t trading for one. They aren’t signing one. Won’t be able to draft one there. 

WHAT THE **** ARE WE DOING!?! WHAT IS THR PLAY?!?

Team is so beyond frustrating.

 

Snyder needs a big splash and trading into the top 3 for Young/Stroud could be it. 

 

Rivera will probably be like Shanahan and advise not to trade multiple first round picks.

 

Rinse and repeat. 

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, Mooka said:

 

Snyder needs a big splash and trading into the top 3 for Young/Stroud could be it. 

 

Rivera will probably be like Shanahan and advise not to trade multiple first round picks.

 

Rinse and repeat. 

I could see that happening.

[skinsfan93]

Bryce Young is not gonna be a durable starter in the NFL and there is no way any team should ever take a Ohio State qb!  Young is too small (who wants a 5”11 195lb qb!) and name me one Ohio State qb that has done anything in the NFL?

 

Give me a 6’3 primarily in the pocket qb that has played a few years in college. No more one year wonders no matter how good their numbers are. I rather have the Levis from Kentucky or Van Dyke from Miami, both of who can be had in the middle to late first round. 

[Mooka]

5 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

Bryce Young is not gonna be a durable starter in the NFL and there is no way any team should ever take a Ohio State qb!  Young is too small (who wants a 5”11 195lb qb!) and name me one Ohio State qb that has done anything in the NFL?

 

Give me a 6’3 primarily in the pocket qb that has played a few years in college. No more one year wonders no matter how good their numbers are. I rather have the Levis from Kentucky or Van Dyke from Miami, both of who can be had in the middle to late first round. 

 

Most mock drafts have Young/Stroud/Levis all going in the top 5. 

 

Although this year the mocks were all wrong on QBs. 

[method man]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

My point was if we are picking late teens there’s a good chance Young, Stroud, Hooker, Levis are all off the board. Then we’re looking at Spencer Rattler. Is that a guy the regime wants to spend a first on? (Probably not literally Rattler… his 5:8 TD INT ratio is concerning).

 

Reaching for a QB is a tremendous mistake if that is the case and I’d rather roll with Howell and go DB/OT/ILB in that situation.

 

I don’t think you’re arguing against that thought, and you’re just saying what you think the team will do. But if that happens there isn’t a bigger reason to doubt this regime.

Outside of the top 4, Jaren Hall is kind of interesting as a late first guy

[KDawg]

43 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

Bryce Young is not gonna be a durable starter in the NFL and there is no way any team should ever take a Ohio State qb!  Young is too small (who wants a 5”11 195lb qb!) and name me one Ohio State qb that has done anything in the NFL?

 

Give me a 6’3 primarily in the pocket qb that has played a few years in college. No more one year wonders no matter how good their numbers are. I rather have the Levis from Kentucky or Van Dyke from Miami, both of who can be had in the middle to late first round. 

Pocket QBs are going the way of the dodo. 

[Zim489]

17 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Pocket QBs are going the way of the dodo. 

Its really team building malpractice to not have a mobile QB. Forcing a team to play 11v11 is just to important verses a 11v10 that you would have with a strict pocket passer. 

[Warhead36]

You need to be able to move around in today's NFL. The best QBs in the league now while they're tremendous passers are all above average at least in terms of mobiilty/athleticism.

 

You don't have to be fast necessarily, but you gotta be quick, elusive, and willing to run and pick up cheap yards and first downs.

[Koolblue13]

I'm now sold on the running QB for the most part. The Vick/Lamar/RG3 types I'm not too into still, mostly because of injuries and predictability. I've been watching Hurts a lot and he reminds me of a young, preinjury McNair and that syle I very much do like. I think that might be the prototypical QB in the near future.

[skinsfan93]

19 hours ago, KDawg said:

Pocket QBs are going the way of the dodo. 

I completely disagree. Name one primary scrambling qb who has won it all in the pros, not college football. Look at the last 5 winning qbs (Stafford, Brady, Mahomes, Brady, and Nick Foles).  You could argue Mahomes is much more a pocket passer than a scrambler.  
 

I’m not saying you need a statue back there but until Lamar Jackson, Kyler Murray, or even Josh Allen wins it all, I rather have someone who can throw dimes than someone who can break off 20 yard runs. Give me a guy who looks to throw first, always looking downfield, then someone who’s first instinct is to run. 

[CommanderInTheRye]

As far as jumping up in the draft to trade for a top QB goes, the only thing I can say with absolute certainty is that if "Disheveled Dan" is in any way involved with the decision making process, either directly, through the machinations of "Wicked Mistress of the Night" Tanya, or by proxy, it will end as just the latest in a long line of humiliating laughingstock level fiascos.

 

 

 

 

Would you trust the unkempt guy in the middle to manage your finances let alone run a billion dollar business?

.

Edited October 29, 2022 by CommanderInTheRye

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, skinsfan93 said:

I completely disagree. Name one primary scrambling qb who has won it all in the pros, not college football. Look at the last 5 winning qbs (Stafford, Brady, Mahomes, Brady, and Nick Foles).  You could argue Mahomes is much more a pocket passer than a scrambler.  
 

I’m not saying you need a statue back there but until Lamar Jackson, Kyler Murray, or even Josh Allen wins it all, I rather have someone who can throw dimes than someone who can break off 20 yard runs. Give me a guy who looks to throw first, always looking downfield, then someone who’s first instinct is to run. 

So, you consider Josh Allen a pocket passer? Jalen Hurts? Hell, Daniel Jones? Patrick Mahomes? Tu’a?
 

No one said a scrambler. No. One.

 

Pocket passer of yesteryear = Brady. His kind is not long for success in the league. 
 

The true pocket guys who are immobile have to be high end to find success. Yes, you need a guy who passes first… but Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, are all guys who do pass first.

[DWinzit]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

So, you consider Josh Allen a pocket passer? Jalen Hurts? Hell, Daniel Jones? Patrick Mahomes? Tu’a?
 

No one said a scrambler. No. One.

 

Pocket passer of yesteryear = Brady. His kind is not long for success in the league. 
 

The true pocket guys who are immobile have to be high end to find success. Yes, you need a guy who passes first… but Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, are all guys who do pass first.

Agreed. You could also add Wilson who was always mobile, consistently rushed for over 500 yards a season and a Superbowl winner 2013.

[skinsfan93]

42 minutes ago, KDawg said:

So, you consider Josh Allen a pocket passer? Jalen Hurts? Hell, Daniel Jones? Patrick Mahomes? Tu’a?
 

No one said a scrambler. No. One.

 

Pocket passer of yesteryear = Brady. His kind is not long for success in the league. 
 

The true pocket guys who are immobile have to be high end to find success. Yes, you need a guy who passes first… but Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, are all guys who do pass first.

What are u talking about?  My point is that most scramble first qbs have not won anything. Looks good for fantasy football points. Mahomes breaks off a run here and there but there are no designed running plays for him anymore. Hurts, Allen and Jackson all have designed running plays. 
 

By the way give me a Herbert or Burrows every day of the week over guys like Hurts or Daniel Jones. Tua … seriously??  I don’t even consider him a qb just another first round bust. 
 

33 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Agreed. You could also add Wilson who was always mobile, consistently rushed for over 500 yards a season and a Superbowl winner 2013.

Wilson won because of that defense. Same can said of Trent Dilfer when he won. Cam Newton was a run first qb. He had a good run to the Superbowl but the majority of his years were average at best. 

Edited October 29, 2022 by skinsfan93

[Rex Tomb]

35 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

My point is that most scramble first qbs have not won anything. Looks good for fantasy football points.

My bet is that the Bills win the super bowl this year just based on their nasty defense alone.

 

 

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, skinsfan93 said:

What are u talking about?  My point is that most scramble first qbs have not won anything. Looks good for fantasy football points. Mahomes breaks off a run here and there but there are no designed running plays for him anymore. Hurts, Allen and Jackson all have designed running plays. 
 

By the way give me a Herbert or Burrows every day of the week over guys like Hurts or Daniel Jones. Tua … seriously??  I don’t even consider him a qb just another first round bust. 
 

Wilson won because of that defense. Same can said of Trent Dilfer when he won. Cam Newton was a run first qb. He had a good run to the Superbowl but the majority of his years were average at best. 

What are YOU talking about. Herbert and Burrow are elite pocket passers. They pass what I said. Both have mobility. Pure pocket passers are a thing of the past if they aren’t elite. Rodgers is a mobile QB as well. Mahomes isn’t a pocket passer.

Edited October 29, 2022 by KDawg

[Franklin60]

21 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm now sold on the running QB for the most part. The Vick/Lamar/RG3 types I'm not too into still, mostly because of injuries and predictability. I've been watching Hurts a lot and he reminds me of a young, preinjury McNair and that syle I very much do like. I think that might be the prototypical QB in the near future.

Hurts doesn’t have the arm that McNair had. He’s improving as a passer for sure but he’s not a natural.

 

Incidentally — and I realize this wasn’t alluded to — I would say that Vick was a significantly more talented thrower of the football than Lamar Jackson is. Vick had a rocket of an arm and an amazingly quick release. He could really, really spin it. Lamar has this weird sidearm delivery and is really wild at times. On the other hand, he’s the only quarterback I’ve ever seen who could legitimately compare to Vick as a runner. Those two are miles ahead of all of the other great running quarterbacks of the past.

[Koolblue13]

49 minutes ago, Franklin60 said:

Hurts doesn’t have the arm that McNair had. He’s improving as a passer for sure but he’s not a natural.

 

Incidentally — and I realize this wasn’t alluded to — I would say that Vick was a significantly more talented thrower of the football than Lamar Jackson is. Vick had a rocket of an arm and an amazingly quick release. He could really, really spin it. Lamar has this weird sidearm delivery and is really wild at times. On the other hand, he’s the only quarterback I’ve ever seen who could legitimately compare to Vick as a runner. Those two are miles ahead of all of the other great running quarterbacks of the past.

Funny, when I wrote that I originally had Randall instead of RGme, but I changed it.

[Zim489]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

So, you consider Josh Allen a pocket passer? Jalen Hurts? Hell, Daniel Jones? Patrick Mahomes? Tu’a?
 

No one said a scrambler. No. One.

 

Pocket passer of yesteryear = Brady. His kind is not long for success in the league. 
 

The true pocket guys who are immobile have to be high end to find success. Yes, you need a guy who passes first… but Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, are all guys who do pass first.

The last drafted true pocket passer with limited mobility to have any real success has been Stafford. 

 

[skinsfan93]

18 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

The last drafted true pocket passer with limited mobility to have any real success has been Stafford.

First Stafford could and would run in his early years. Second I didn’t say I wanted a qb in a wheelchair. I said I wanted a qb who primarily played from the pocket. Of course any modern day qb needs to be able to move but I prefer moving within the pocket, not a qb who looks to run first.
 

Lamar and Kyler Murray are prime examples of the type of qb I don’t want. I much prefer a qb like Herbert or Burrow. 
 

BTW look at the throwing motion by Richardson. That is so mechanically poor. 

Edited October 29, 2022 by skinsfan93

[IrepDC]

I'm not impressed with Stroud. Young is a phenomenal player but his durability is a real concern. This feels like one of those years the 3rd, 4th, or 5th QB taken ends up having the best career. 

[KDawg]

9 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

I'm not impressed with Stroud. Young is a phenomenal player but his durability is a real concern. This feels like one of those years the 3rd, 4th, or 5th QB taken ends up having the best career. 

I actually agree. I think Young could be special. Needs to add a few pounds. But I think Henson Hooker is going to wind up being the guy in this class. I’d have to deep dive him for me to hunker down on that opinion but I’m close.

[IrepDC]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I actually agree. I think Young could be special. Needs to add a few pounds. But I think Henson Hooker is going to wind up being the guy in this class. I’d have to deep dive him for me to hunker down on that opinion but I’m close.

For sure the rest of the season still has to play out to make it more clear. I'm watching Hooker and Levis more closely.

[FLSkinz83]

If Rivera is back, I'm not letting him draft a QB.    I also think Howell is worth developing.   I'm not sold on any of these QB's.