2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Zim489]

Look for the value picks in the 4th or later for a RB. Your second round pick is a guy you want to be on your team for 5-10 years. Rarely that’s a RB. 
 

Positions I’m looking at right now for the second pick assuming we have it is TE FS MLB T C 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Zim489

[Going Commando]

Wanted to also mention Paris Johnson Jr from Ohio State as a likely first round candidate for us with a really good chance at being BPA when we pick in the teens.  Like Broderick Jones, he's a former 5 star super blue chipper who was a top ten recruit nationally and I think he was actually ranked slightly higher than Jones that year.  Supposedly a very bright and high character kid, has won an award for his charitable foundation: https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2022/11/134713/paris-johnson-jr-foundation-wins-armed-forces-merit-award

 

He's a peer to Jones/Myles Murphy/Brian Bresee/Bryce Young/Kelee Ringo and has been on track for the first round like them, but he hasn't really gotten the national recognition they have since he didn't start as a freshman and only moved to LT this season.  As such, he's going to be a bit of a late riser but he should end up as having teens value and be no worse than OT3 I think, and possibly OT1.  he looked really good against Notre Dame, against pass rushers who tore up Clemson's tackles.  Very explosive short area quickness and recovery speed after aggressive RPO sets.  Classic zone scheme OT body with excellent height and lean build.  Experience at playing RG as a sophomore, so offers us a potential high end prospect at that spot too.

 

He's the kind of OL prospect that would give us flexibility with Cosmi.  If we draft him, we could see what we have in camp trying configurations with both of them at RG and RT and then go from there.  Sign Dalton Risner to play LG and get Chase back from injury and that looks like a rebuilt OL to me.  And best case scenario of all--we have a potential LT if Charles Leno gets hurt or ages out of effectiveness.

[Skinsinparadise]

This is how i see it too.  I think some underrate this roster.  

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Going Commando said:

Wanted to also mention Paris Johnson Jr from Ohio State as a likely first round candidate for us with a really good chance at being BPA when we pick in the teens.  Like Broderick Jones, he's a former 5 star super blue chipper who was a top ten recruit nationally and I think he was actually ranked slightly higher than Jones that year.  Supposedly a very bright and high character kid, has won an award for his charitable foundation: https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2022/11/134713/paris-johnson-jr-foundation-wins-armed-forces-merit-award

 

 

Yeah I've noticed he and Skoronski seem to be the consensus now top tackles in this draft.

3 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

So does Etienne.

 

Running backs get undervalued in the draft because of how much damage they take, and the relatively short shelf life of their peak productivity, which is usually only like three seasons.  But while they are in that window, special RBs are the most potent and reliable offensive weapons in the game.  Bad QB and receivers?  You'll still move the chains.  Good QB?  You'll win 13 games.  Bad OL?  You'll still be able to run the ball.  Good OL?  You will be unstoppable in the red zone.  They dictate the defensive formation/plan much more than other skill positions, and they are the most reliable sources of red zone scoring.

 

But it can be tough to line up their window of dominance with your team's championship window.  By the time the Cowboys are balanced enough and have a seasoned enough QB to truly contend, Zeke is out of his window.  Same was going to be true for Carolina.  And it will probably end up being true for the Chargers and Giants too.  BUT, having a dominant back to lead your offense is also a major boon to the development of a QB prospect.  It's training wheels for your offense because you reliably move the chains and score despite your passing game being simplified and easy to defend.  There would be a lot of value in having a special back like Robinson or Gibbs for us to try and develop Sam Howell.

 

Yep Etienne too, someone i recall you liked as did I.  Derailed last year because of injury.

 

This year has had a resurgence to some extent of the running game in the league.  So many teams play cover 2 now and just dare opposing teams to run and don't want to give up the deep pass. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

 

The scenarios that get me the most excited right now are getting Michael Mayer or Broderick Jones/Skoronski in the first round, and then getting O'Cyrus Torrence that @Skinsinparadise highlighted in round two.  Two good OLs in the draft--hopefully at least one of them a rookie starter--could go a long way to rebuilding the line.  Especially if we can get somebody like Dalton Risner in FA for not that expensive of a deal.  Then let's see what we've got with Sam Howell in what will probably end up being the critical year of the Rivera tenure.

 

If I had to pick a player thus far who is one of my guys so to speak in this draft its Michael Mayer.  I've talked about him for years.  First dude I believe I mentioned this draft season.  lol, I feel very vested in Mayer.  I've watched a lot of TEs over the years including from Notre Dame and Mayer stood out from the jump.  He's my 2nd favorite watch over the years after Pitts albiet he's a totally different type of TE than Pitts.  Pitts is really a pure F TE.   

 

TE seems like a sneaky need on this team considering Logan Thomas took a step back because of his injury.

 

I was listening to Jay dissect our offense in a recent podcast and he mentioned TE being an issue.  He said its critical to break today's coverages by having a weapon underneath between the numbers and he referenced that we don't have a Jordan Reed type who is a great security blanket.

 

I had a massive man crush on TJ Hockenson before that draft and Mayer to me is a clear one peg better than Hockenson.  Hockenson arguably was the X factor in our loss last week to the Vikings.

 

Last time me and you pounded hard the same player who was a pass weapon in the first round -- it was Devonta Smith who sadly went to the Eagles.  Hopefully better luck this time with Mayer.  I'd love to have him.   Mayer can block too -- both pass blocking and run blocking.  Total stud.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Loved Zach watching him before last draft until he didn't declare.  I haven't watched UCLA at all this season so I need to catch up with him. 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Watched most of Tennessee today, Hooker with a really good game. I am back and forth on him, can’t make up my mind.

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Watched most of Tennessee today, Hooker with a really good game. I am back and forth on him, can’t make up my mind.

I think his upside is limited in the NFL due to his advanced age. He won't be terrible but he'll just be middle of the road ish.

[Skinsinparadise]

26 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I think his upside is limited in the NFL due to his advanced age. He won't be terrible but he'll just be middle of the road ish.

Yeah I know a few here are zoned in on his age. To each their own but I don’t care much about his age as to it being some definitive aspect to his evaluation aside from you don’t have as much time to develop him,

 

My issue with him is I don’t see a lot of tight window throws and I think he’s too deliberate with his throws, often one read with him staring at his target.  Pocket presence seems hit and miss. 
 

I like his intermediate accuracy, in between the numbers. His size. His mobility. And by some accounts very high intangibles. Decent touch on his throws. 

 

Feels to me like Jalen Hurts value wise in the draft where if he dropped to the 2nd I’d roll the dice perhaps.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Yeah I've noticed he and Skoronski seem to be the consensus now top tackles in this draft.

 

TDN has Broderick Jones as OT1, a kid from Maryland that I'm not familiar with as OT2, Skoronski as OT3, and Johnson Jr as OT4.  I can see the logic behind that, but I think PJJ will end up at OT1 or 2 by the end of the draft process because of his height and athleticism combo. I think he's got a good deal more upside than Skoronski, and I could see Skoronski being OT4 and being viewed as guard prospect for a lot of teams because of his length issue.

 

Jones makes some sense as OT1, he's been a high level starter at LT for two years on a really good Georgia line.  He has his moments where he looks pretty special, saw one in his TN cut ups where he was able to slow down an overload blitz by blocking both guys.  But I've liked what I've seen from PJJ the most so far.  He's got fantastic quickness and his ability to jump guys and still recover in case of an overset is high level. Very speedy run blocker with some nice physicality as a climber.  If you're looking for an OL who does a really good job executing movement blocks in the run game, he's a good fit.  He also has really good height and looks like he's about 6'7.  Noticeably taller than a lot of the other linemen around him.

[Zim489]

Levi’s not looking good. I’m out on Hooker. Richardson has had a few good games in a row 

[Zim489]

9 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

a kid from Maryland that I'm not familiar with as OT2

Jaeyln Duncan. Has pretty much all the physicals you want as an OT. He'll be an RAS star. Likely in the low 9s. Hes not good at setting right now and can be easily moved too often. When he does set he wins vs pretty much everyone. Not a good hand fighter. If you get into his chest you pretty much win vs him. Often stands up too high. He relies at this point pretty much entirely on his athletic ability. Probably the highest ceiling OT in the draft. Will take some patience and good coaching. He shows everything you want at times but doesnt string them together enough.

[duffy]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If I had to pick a player thus far who is one of my guys so to speak in this draft its Michael Mayer.  I've talked about him for years.  First dude I believe I mentioned this draft season.  lol, I feel very vested in Mayer.  I've watched a lot of TEs over the years including from Notre Dame and Mayer stood out from the jump.  He's my 2nd favorite watch over the years after Pitts albiet he's a totally different type of TE than Pitts.  Pitts is really a pure F TE.   

 

TE seems like a sneaky need on this team considering Logan Thomas took a step back because of his injury.

 

I was listening to Jay dissect our offense in a recent podcast and he mentioned TE being an issue.  He said its critical to break today's coverages by having a weapon underneath between the numbers and he referenced that we don't have a Jordan Reed type who is a great security blanket.

 

I had a massive man crush on TJ Hockenson before that draft and Mayer to me is a clear one peg better than Hockenson.  Hockenson arguably was the X factor in our loss last week to the Vikings.

 

Last time me and you pounded hard the same player who was a pass weapon in the first round -- it was Devonta Smith who sadly went to the Eagles.  Hopefully better luck this time with Mayer.  I'd love to have him.   Mayer can block too -- both pass blocking and run blocking.  Total stud.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Absolutely love Mayer. He's been my top target for a couple of years now. It'll be interesting to see where he winds up in the first round. I could see him going top 15 if there's a team with a big TE need. He's definitely got the talent to go that early. 

[Zim489]

4 minutes ago, duffy said:

Absolutely love Mayer. He's been my top target for a couple of years now. It'll be interesting to see where he winds up in the first round. I could see him going top 15 if there's a team with a big TE need. He's definitely got the talent to go that early. 

He'll go top 15. The lack of top flight WRs and OTs will push the better none premier position talent higher than normal. 

[Zim489]

The only QB I would consider this year 

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, Zim489 said:

Jaeyln Duncan. Has pretty much all the physicals you want as an OT. He'll be an RAS star. Likely in the low 9s. Hes not good at setting right now and can be easily moved too often. When he does set he wins vs pretty much everyone. Not a good hand fighter. If you get into his chest you pretty much win vs him. Often stands up too high. He relies at this point pretty much entirely on his athletic ability. Probably the highest ceiling OT in the draft. Will take some patience and good coaching. He shows everything you want at times but doesnt string them together enough.

 

I'm sitting down to watch him today since they're on national TV, but the Maryland offense has been so bad that Penn St has dominated time of possession and I haven't seen enough snaps of his to form a confident take.  The only thing that has really jumped out to me is that he looks super soft.  I see the speed you mention, and the confidence to pass pro against the speed rush, but his hand work looks pretty poor today and these Penn State ends are beating him up pretty bad and I'm not seeing a lot of skill and will to sustain his blocks until the end of the play.  I wonder how tough he is, and how sharp--as I type this he just got away with an ineligible man downfield penalty on an RPO.  When he gets his chances to climb and head hunt the second level, I see zero aggression or physicality.

 

I don't know, maybe this isn't the best display of his game, but I'm not really liking what I'm seeing.  The quality of this first round OL crop hinges on what the three true juniors do.  From what I've seen, they're OTs 1-3.  I think they're first rounders but Duncan definitely doesn't look like one to me.

Then he just gave up a soft ass sack.  Got beat by basic handwork and then tried a half-assed hold to pull the dude to the ground and the defender ended up in Tagavailoa's chest at the end of his drop.

 

This kid ain't it.  He doesn't look like much of a competitor.

[Zim489]

He’s been terrible today. This Maryland team is so effing soft. They’ve played back to back games in the rain with Lia coming back and he looks absolutely terrified back there. They all looked defeated. 
 

when he’s engaged and they are playing well he can be a mean SOB finishing blocks in the run game.

 

Looking like a 3rd-4th round tools guy that needs developing with sky high potential 

[KDawg]

I’d love to know why Gibbs hasn’t played since the first quarter.

[Going Commando]

That was an awesome play to break up the touchdown by Brian Branch.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

2 hours ago, Zim489 said:

The only QB I would consider this year 

 

Holy! Terrible setup due to just maneuvering against pressure but the arm talent got it done. Mechanically that throw should never succeed unless you've got talent like Mahomes, Rodgers, etc. I'll have to keep an eye on him.

[Zim489]

14 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Holy! Terrible setup due to just maneuvering against pressure but the arm talent got it done. Mechanically that throw should never succeed unless you've got talent like Mahomes, Rodgers, etc. I'll have to keep an eye on him.

He has every physical talent that you could possibly want 

[CRobi21]

This Penix Jr is making some pretty throws for Washington. 

 

And he tries to force one in at the goal line that is tipped and picked. Still some very impressive throws tonight

Edited November 13, 2022 by CRobi21

[Chump Bailey]

10 hours ago, CRobi21 said:

This Penix Jr is making some pretty throws for Washington. 

 

And he tries to force one in at the goal line that is tipped and picked. Still some very impressive throws tonight

 

Yeah, he's on my radar too. 

[philibusters]

Jaelyn Duncan has had a pretty disappointing season for Maryland.   According to PFF he down 10 points from his 2021 and 2020 season as a starter and they only grade him in low 60's this year.   This was supposed to be the year where he took steps towards reaching his ceiling, but he has regressed from 2021 and 2020.

 

He'd be okay as a high upside guy in the 5th round, but I don't want him on day 1 or 2 and I say that as a Maryland fan.

Edited November 13, 2022 by philibusters

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, philibusters said:

Jaelyn Duncan has had a pretty disappointing season for Maryland.   According to PFF he down 10 points from his 2021 and 2020 season as a starter and they only grade him in low 60's this year.   This was supposed to be the year where he took steps towards reaching his ceiling, but he has regressed from 2021 and 2020.

 

He'd be okay as a high upside guy in the 5th round, but I don't want him on day 1 or 2 and I say that as a Maryland fan.

 

He looked horrible yesterday.  Like he doesn't enjoy football and is scared of contact.  I can see that he's got the size and speed to play the NFL game, but I wouldn't draft him.  The problems I saw yesterday are things which I don't think are fixable.  Namely, a lack of toughness and competitiveness.  I didn't really see any good reps from him yesterday as even on many of the ones he won, he let go of his blocks and quit before the play was over.  Spent like half of his run blocks just sticking his arms out and blocking grass.  These are personality and playing style issues, not skill deficiencies.  You can't make a guy into a tough competitor or make him love football.  I can't remember a single soft player with high end tools who ever beat the odds and did anything in the NFL.  I honestly wouldn't even want to have to commit a roster spot to a player like that.

[KDawg]

I’ve been eating some **** for my Fields love here, but he is starting to play much, much better and he has very little talent around him on offense. His future looks bright.

 

Same with Tu’a. Except that offense is ****ing loaded.
 

I at least feel somewhat vindicated on both but still a lot for them both to prove.

 

Neither are Shane Buechele but… that’s a high bar.

Edited November 13, 2022 by KDawg